Question about bolsters

[willthebold]

Hey folks!
I recently finished an 8ft. Indy style bullwhip made from kip that had two plaited bellies and an overlay. I'm about to start another one using the same construction, except I wanted to add in a bolster to thicken it up a little, and to make it stiffer. My question is, at which point should I add the bolster? I was thinking I should put it on right before the final overlay, but I wasn't sure if that was the best idea. Also, if I do put it on right before the overlay, how long should it be? Does it need to run the entire length of the whip? Finally, I might have to make the bolster out of two pieces. How do I join them together, or is there another way? Thanks for all the help!

-Will

[Indiana Jeff]

Some great information here.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=40634" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[riku1914]

Definitely right before the final overlay, it'll give you a smooth surface to plait over.

How thick is the kip you are using?

For the length, it just depends on how the entire whip is going.

I use an internal construction of a core, 2 plaited bellies and 2 bolsters before the overlay, so I can't help you much on just two

bellies.

As for how you join them, some people like to simply place them in the plaiting and plait over it. I find it easier to sew the pieces

together :



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I get a piece of artificial sinew and a split it in half, and that's what I tend to use to sew it. I punch holes in it with my fid, and

I use a baseball stitch. To learn this stitch I googled it and found a video of some clothes maker doing a baseball stitch, and

learned it from that.
Once you sew it, it's done and you don't have to worry about it anymore.

[willthebold]

Jeff, thanks for the reminder. I had totally forgotten about Paul's instructions! I'll go through there again to see if it answers all my questions.

Riku, thanks for your explanation and picture. I should've clarified on my construction: I used a core, 2 bellies, and a final overlay last time. I want to do the same this time except add a bolster before the overlay. The finished whip will be 8 ft, so I was thinking the bolster should be somewhere around 6-7 ft long. Do you start that bolster at the butt of the whip, or at the transition? The kip I'm using by the way is about 3 oz if that helps with all of this. One other think I thought of about cutting out bolsters (since I've never done that before), is it better for the edges of the bolster to overlap slightly, or for there to be a small gap? I ask that knowing it's probably nearly impossible to get the edges cut perfectly to fit together.

Thanks again for all the help!

-Will

[riku1914]

Jeff, thanks for the reminder. I had totally forgotten about Paul's instructions! I'll go through there again to see if it answers all my questions.

Riku, thanks for your explanation and picture. I should've clarified on my construction: I used a core, 2 bellies, and a final overlay last time. I want to do the same this time except add a bolster before the overlay. The finished whip will be 8 ft, so I was thinking the bolster should be somewhere around 6-7 ft long. Do you start that bolster at the butt of the whip, or at the transition? The kip I'm using by the way is about 3 oz if that helps with all of this. One other think I thought of about cutting out bolsters (since I've never done that before), is it better for the edges of the bolster to overlap slightly, or for there to be a small gap? I ask that knowing it's probably nearly impossible to get the edges cut perfectly to fit together.

Thanks again for all the help!

-Will

If you end your second belly around the half way mark, you probably want the bolster to be about 6 ft. long, maybe slightly longer.

Better to have slightly less space then it to be overlapping. If it overlaps you need to trim it because there will be a bump from

it.

Once you get everything working right, you will pretty much have a gapless bolster for the first couple feet. It will naturally

open up more as you get further and further though.

[willthebold]

Thanks for the info Riku! One more thing, for your two bolsters, how long are they? I was thinking about doing one that was about 3 ft, and another that was about 6 ft to get some more weight and taper going. Is that how you use the two bolsters?

[riku1914]

I tend to use bolster .8mm - 1.1mm thick. I make the first one roughly 1/2 the whip's length, and the second roughly 3/4 the whip's

length.

edit: also, to bring out the taper, simply extend each layer by a couple inches. On 8 footers I extend every layer by 6".

[riku1914]

Something I thought worth mentioning. Some people look at the core of the whip, the tapered strip of leather attached around

the handle, as a bolster. I do not. I call this the core. When I say two bolsters, I mean I have one bolster on top of the first belly,

and one bolster on top of the second belly.


The leather you are using is around 1.2mm thick you said? You could use the 2 bellies 2 bolsters method, it would just end up

fairly thick, probably around 26-27mm thick. Nothing wrong with that though, because I actually make Last Crusade styled whips

between 25 and 27mm thick. If you could get ahold of some spring steel that's around 6mm thick, you could use that thickness of

leather and get a much thinner diameter on the finished whip, which is what I do for Aussie styled whips, and sometimes thinner

indy whips when all I have is thick bolster material ( say, 1.1mm and higher is what I consider thick for bolsters )

[willthebold]

I don't count the core as a bolster. I used a core, 2 bellies, and an overlay last time. I wanted to thicken/stiffen up the whip some, so I'm adding a bolster this time around. I'm thinking with the thickness of my hide, I should just add one bolster. The whip I made before wound up being about 22mm wide, so one bolster would bump it up to 24-25mm which I think is about right, though I'm not too sure. For just one bolster, I supposed about 6ft would be good for an 8 ft whip?

[riku1914]

I don't count the core as a bolster. I used a core, 2 bellies, and an overlay last time. I wanted to thicken/stiffen up the whip some, so I'm adding a bolster this time around. I'm thinking with the thickness of my hide, I should just add one bolster. The whip I made before wound up being about 22mm wide, so one bolster would bump it up to 24-25mm which I think is about right, though I'm not too sure. For just one bolster, I supposed about 6ft would be good for an 8 ft whip?

Just depends on how the rest of the whip is going. That tends to be pretty good for a second bolster, but again, it just depends

on how the taper is going.

[willthebold]

Any preference as to where to place the open side of the bolster when you're plaiting the next belly over it? Like, should the seam be facing you while you plait, or be on the underside of the whip?

[riku1914]

Any preference as to where to place the open side of the bolster when you're plaiting the next belly over it? Like, should the seam be facing you while you plait, or be on the underside of the whip?

There's a bunch of ways you can do this. None of which are better than the other. What I do, starts with the core.

I cut all my bolsters out so that when they are plaited over, they will have a straight seam, not twisting around the whip. This

helps with the whips functionality. They have a line down the center, and even sides on each side of the line.

Now, regarding the core. When the core is tied on, there should be a straight seam down the handle where the two sides of the

core lines up.

My first plaited belly starts at the end of the handle, and the yoke covers the handle. I line up the seam of the yoke with the seam

of the core, so that these two layers are lined up. Here's a picture example :



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You can't see the seam, but you can see how the belly starts at the end of the handle, and how it all works out etc.

What I've started doing since the whip pictured( on whip's using a 3/8" steel spike for the handle) is on the last two or three inches

of the belly yoke, I get my safety beveler and thin it down, being sure it doesn't touch the strands.

Now, the first bolster. I used to attach the first bolster right off the end of the handle. Now I add another two or three inches,

thin this area down, and attach it over where I thinned down the first belly yoke, being sure the bolster lines up with the

seam from the first belly yoke.

Next, the second plaited belly.

Depending on what style of whip I'm doing, I either have the second plaited belly go the handle's entire length, or I'll start it

about an inch from the end of the handle. Either way, you want to be sure the belly's yoke lines up with the seam of the first

belly.

Finally, the second bolster. Just make sure this lines up with either the most recent belly yoke / bolster, or when you're plaiting

the second belly ( if it's over the handle ) you can draw a line on the belly where the seam of the layer under it is. You attach

the second bolster to line up with this seam.

Finally, when lining up the overlay. I line up the overlay so that the second bolster's seam is directly under what I'm plaiting,

here's an example :



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Notice in the picture how the second belly, second bolster, and overlay seam all line up nicely. If you looked further into

the whip, you would see that the core, first belly, first bolster, second belly, second bolster, and finally, the overlay, all line

up nicely. This helps with the whip flowing out straight, how it reacts, and probably even how the energy get's transferred as

it flows down the whip. Everything works together.

Please feel free to ask anymore questions, and I'll do my best to answer, and if you ask it on the thread others will do the same

[willthebold]

Riku, I can't thank you enough for all the help! That answers my question perfectly! I was planning on putting the seam of the bolsters all in the same direction on the underside of the whip while I'm plaiting, and I just wanted to get someone else's input. Thanks again!

[riku1914]

Riku, I can't thank you enough for all the help! That answers my question perfectly! I was planning on putting the seam of the bolsters all in the same direction on the underside of the whip while I'm plaiting, and I just wanted to get someone else's input. Thanks again!

On my second plaited belly I've set up the belly before ( once you line it up with the seam, you can start the plaiting 4 different

ways, and with 4 plait it really doesn't matter which one it is as long as the original seam of the yoke is lined up with the rest of

the seams ) where the bolster was like this :



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and it was easy enough. The only reason I changed was because if you cut the bolster right, it may not fit around the entire

belly 100%. I've even had it gap out as much as 1/2" before. This is no problem because if you do a lot of rolling it will round

this area out nicely, but it's easier to plait over the bolster if the top part is smooth, and is difficult i there is a gap there. That's

the only reason I changed.
I hope you enjoy making whips!

[Canuck Digger]

The reason one tries to have the bolster seam straight is to have a continuity in how the whip bends; if the seam twists around the whip, then these characteristics are always changing because the seam is never in the same place. Though I do feel that the way you plait is probably more significant in imparting characteristics such as the direction of the spine (or the way a whip will naturally bend more in one direction than another) than the bolster seam, I still try to make things as straight as I can. I also flip the direction of the seam from one bolster to the next so the seam isn't always facing the same direction. How much difference this makes is arguably debatable, but it makes sense to me. When plaiting I have the seam of the bolster facing away from me, so on the underside of the whip. This is because it is easier to keep the bolster atop the whip with the seam facing down, otherwise it would always be opening up and falling down. Since you can drop strands from the front or the back or both, I'm not sure just how much of a difference the direction of the bolster's seam makes in dropping strands, but it does work well with the seam facing away from me.
Regards,


Franco

[willthebold]

That's kind of my reasoning Franco. I know that the side facing me when I plait tends to be the way the whip bends easier, so I was thinking that putting the bolster seam on the underside when I'm plaiting would go along with that kind of bend. Of course, I was also thinking about doing what you do where you alternate in an attempt to balance out the seams, but I think, like you, that it probably doesn't affect the final product all that much.

Thanks for all the input guys!
-Will