New jacket manufacturer?

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:40 pm

Hi guys!
Have you seen this jacket? Maybe someone owns one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Traditional-Ind ... 3f1139779b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BTW isn't the pic stolen form Todd?
Otherwise, the sizing looks ok, sheepskin sounds good.

Forrest For the Trees · Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:36 pm

I'd be leery of any seller that swipes someone else's merchandise photos.

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:09 pm

Sure looks like the picture from Todd's site

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

bounos · Post by **bounos** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:42 pm

I checked Todd's pics on his website to compare and I found that the pictures are different! (not by much though)

The picture is reversed (or it could be a female version)

George

Oildale Jones · Post by **Oildale Jones** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:46 pm

Looks like they swiped it from somewhere, but I can't find that same pic on Todd's site. Still, it must be a totally different jacket: Look at the storm flap!

(Seriously, though, the adjustment strap looks higher on the eBay jacket.)

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:35 pm

That's my picture.

-Todd

Oildale Jones · Post by **Oildale Jones** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:47 pm

Puppetboy wrote:That's my picture.

-Todd

Whoa. Just goes to show you: You never know who's watching.

Have I mentioned lately how much I love my Coyle's jackets?

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:24 am

Puppetboy wrote:That's my picture.

-Todd

It's the pic you've previously used on your webiste, right? I would announce that to Ebay.

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:47 am

Why do people do this? I mean, e-bay isn't exactly a rarely visited place? Why steal a photo of a product you sell? Unless that product is not worth half the time taken to download the other photo anyway?

Some people are just wrong... If your products that bad.. Rethink...

Moronic.

And Todd, yeah...Have I mentioned how much I like the jacket?

ron521 · Post by **ron521** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:12 am

How difficult is it to take a digital photo, when almost every phone has a camera built in?

indyclone · Post by **indyclone** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:37 am

i've also found another jacket on the bay and was wondering what you all think of the jacket , to me it is a bit off , but still kind of interested since the maker is from the chicago area ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Indiana-Jones-F ... 2568d203d8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:22 am

Design is off in enough ways to make me notice...But not a "bad" jacket....Maybe if it's cheap it'd work as a kids jacket or one for Halloween only?

The general consensus over on filmjackets seems to be that they're not bad as a company, but the designs seem to miss on occasion..

I'd say that's probably about fair given the Indy jacket you linked to

CM · Post by CM » Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:54 am

fifthchamber wrote:Why do people do this? I mean, e-bay isn't exactly a rarely visited place? Why steal a photo of a product you sell? Unless that product is not worth half the time taken to download the other photo anyway?

Some people are just wrong... If your products that bad.. Rethink...

Moronic.

And Todd, yeah...Have I mentioned how much I like the jacket?

It's not moronic. It may be ethically wrong but it works. People buy stuff and only the fanatics notice the source material. Capitalism is about making money and ethics are optional.

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:17 am

You're right...

That's me confusing "morons" with "pure evil"..

Yup...Entirely...Not morons, but people who've considered what they have to sell, decided it *****, and chosen to use photos of a better product in the hope that the poor souls who buy from them will not notice...

Ah well....Plenty of it going around...No scruples seems to be "in fad" for 2011...

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:21 am

I love the way they put their watermark on my photo. Dishonest?

-Todd

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:24 am

Puppetboy wrote:I love the way they put their watermark on my photo. Dishonest?

-Todd

Well Todd...perhaps the attitude is: "If I am going to borrow (I use this term loosely) from someone I might as well pick one of the best." Who knows what goes through peoples minds? I think it probably gets down to one basic attitude -- greed and a complete lack of ethics. And, as mentioned above, many times they figure the mass public 'won't know the difference, so to h...l with it...' Whatever the reason(s), they should be called on it! For the non-knowledgeable consumer's sake and also for the person doing this. Maybe they are truly dumb enough not to realize what they are doing is wrong -- though I doubt the latter. Everyone, even the smallest child, 99.9% of the time knows when they are doing wrong, but for whatever reason they wish to choose, do it anyway. I would notify ebay. They will deal with it. I have seen this on another totally unrelated history site that I belong to and it happens all the time with items that are supposed to be of historical nature/value, etc. and they are nothing but reproduction frauds. I agree with the term 'buyer beware,' but I also disdane and cannot tolorate 'out and out lies.' W>

bounos · Post by **bounos** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:43 am

Puppetboy wrote:I love the way they put their watermark on my photo. Dishonest?

-Todd

Hey Todd,

You know, I have just about cleaned you out of everything Indy!
I doubt very much that I will stop any time soon.

The reason I buy from you is that, not only do you provide the best professional service,
you have amazing quality products which is widely supported by many satisfied customers!

I have two of your jackets.
Enough said!

Now hurry up and get me some boots!

George

ron521 · Post by **ron521** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:37 am

If "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", then copying someone else's photograph must be fairly high praise.

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:45 am

Hahah..."Imitation" still implies doing it YOURSELF....These blokes just nicked the photos..That's not "imitation", it's stealing...If they'd wanted to imitate Todd, they'd have worked hard to build up a business based on great products at decent prices and lovely service, as well as being a decent human being...If that was what they had done, I'd agree..It would be wonderfully flattering...

But what they've done is just teefing...

I reckon..

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:38 pm

I'm not really concerned about it. If these guys are scam artists or have sub-par merchandise, then they won't last long.

Im used to having my pictures stolen. Just do a Google image search and pick your favorite. Who knows where the magical pictures come from? Ebay's reporting process for stolen images is so complex (unless it's stolen from another listing) its not even worth it.

And lest I be a hypocrite, I was guilty of the same thing way back when. But through the years I've come to understand the standards that merchants need to adhere to in that regard. And I have learned a lot about IP and ownership of photos.

I'd give the guy the benefit of the doubt if he hadn't put a watermark on it. Doing that proves that he knows that image theft for advertising is a no-no.

I'll send him a message in case he's fuzzy about this.

-Todd

PS - Just the name "Indiana Jones" is a registered trademark, so anyone selling unlicensed products with the name "Indiana Jones" or a derivative , anywhere near it, is breaking the law. "Style", "Indy-like", "IJ", "just like", reminiscent of", "with the faint aroma of" doesn't cut it, legally. That trademarked name can't be used or implied anywhere near a product. The problem is the internet - your products can't be found without using the name. So I guess I'm not lilly-white either.

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:48 pm

Looks like someone else has stolen your pics. Check them here: http://www.celebswear.com/products/Indi ... cket-.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What's up with those sites? I don't understand why they can't upload a pic of their actual product. That's just stupid.

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:01 pm

indyclone wrote:i've also found another jacket on the bay and was wondering what you all think of the jacket , to me it is a bit off , but still kind of interested since the maker is from the chicago area ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Indiana-Jones-F ... 2568d203d8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I kinda like their take on the jacket. The button down storm-flap is neat, and the buckle straps are different. The only thing I REALLY don't like is the Wings style back panel with the huge "GAPS" between the shoulder and the panel.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:45 pm

I just sent the lister this message:

Hello,

I am the owner of the photograph you are using for your auction, and the jacket pictured was made by me personally. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and give you time to replace the photo with one of the actual jacket you have for sale.

I've been notified of this matter by several people now, so I'm not the only person who has noticed this (by far).

I'll ask you to discontinue use of the photo before I report it to eBay. I'm sure you don't want to jeopardize your seller account.

Todd Coyle
Todd's Costumes

We'll see what happens.

Bigfoot · Post by **Bigfoot** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:09 pm

Here is a paragraph from their website. I don't think English is their primary language.

" Indiana Jones is a fantastic figure designed by Henry Lucas and Steven Spielberg and was a hit movie in the 80s. It appeared Harrison Honda as Indiana Jones. Several sequels were designed after the first movie, Raiders of the Dropped Ark. The last movie being Indiana Jones and the Country of the Clear Brain in 2008. Indiana Jones is an experience movie on lost people that is well-loved and still well-known to this day. The movie style tune is also very popular."

tomek9210 wrote:Looks like someone else has stolen your pics. Check them here: http://www.celebswear.com/products/Indi ... cket-.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What's up with those sites? I don't understand why they can't upload a pic of their actual product. That's just stupid.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:06 pm

Well this pretty much sells me on the jacket!

"One of the hottest costumes for guys is Indiana Jones. The ladies love, and adventure follows. Fortunately, there is also one of the easiest costumes you can put together."

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

backstagejack · Post by **backstagejack** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:16 pm

Puppetboy wrote:I just sent the lister this message:

Hello,

I am the owner of the photograph you are using for your auction, and the jacket pictured was made by me personally. I will give you the benefit of the doubt, and give you time to replace the photo with one of the actual jacket you have for sale.

I've been notified of this matter by several people now, so I'm not the only person who has noticed this (by far).

I'll ask you to discontinue use of the photo before I report it to eBay. I'm sure you don't want to jeopardize your seller account.

Todd Coyle
Todd's Costumes

We'll see what happens.

Well, it looks like it worked, as "their" pic is gone.......

bounos · Post by **bounos** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:02 pm

tomek9210 wrote:Looks like someone else has stolen your pics. Check them here: http://www.celebswear.com/products/Indi ... cket-.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What's up with those sites? I don't understand why they can't upload a pic of their actual product. That's just stupid.

Hopefully Todd will notify these guys as well!

George

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:19 am

Hey guys. I have a list of at least 15 vendors who use varying degrees of lies, theft and deception to try to sell their products. I can back all of it up with images from their own sites. One vendor even used an action figure to advertise their jacket - and I am not making that up. Capitalism is one thing, but this goes beyond that. Here is what is happening:

A new "vendor" sees a site that is doing well or has an idea that they want to use. So they right click some images and click "save as" and bam - they have a product. Except that they really do not have a product. They have a stolen picture of someone elses' product. Another popular tactic is to use uncredited images from the film to advertise their products. Imitation may be the finest form of flattery, but these vendors are not imitating. They are stealing intellectual property.

Why is this important?

Because you will put your hard earned money down paying for a product that does not yet exist or is grossly misrepresented. The vendor does not have a warehouse full of these jackets. They typically have nothing. Once you pay, they take your money and use it to have a jacket made. You have just paid for their prototype and to be their guinea pig. Maybe it will be decent quality and highly detailed, but that is extremely unlikely. It is usually the replica jacket fodder you see on eBay that looks as if the jacket was manufactured by preschoolers in a dark room.

They use stolen images from reputable manufacturers because their own jackets only vaguely resemble the ones from the film. If you do see images of their own jackets on their sites, they are usually terrible and do not look much like the jacket they are advertising.

I never come here to plug our site, but I really care people do not fall victim to these sites. While I fully understand you have to start somewhere, using stolen descriptions, other vendors images and film stills to advertise a site is not a sound ethical business practice. If you do business with a thief, do not be surprised when you are ripped off. There are other vendors out there who have put in their blood, sweat and tears to make a terrific product. Todd's Costumes, Magnoli, Wested, TNO, etc. You already know the players.

So please, watch for these warning signs:

stolen images
stolen descriptions
the use of studio images
ignoring questions or poor response to questions
poor spelling or bad grammar.
the "site" consists solely of a store.

The flip side is you may get an amazing jacket, but you are taking a gamble. If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Caveat emptor.

(Edited by Rick5150 to fix list tags

)

wwtwo · Post by **wwtwo** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:58 am

rick5150 wrote:Hey guys. I have a list of at least 15 vendors who use varying degrees of lies, theft and deception to try to sell their products. I can back all of it up with images from their own sites. One vendor even used an action figure to advertise their jacket - and I am not making that up. Capitalism is one thing, but this goes beyond that. Here is what is happening:

A new "vendor" sees a site that is doing well or has an idea that they want to use. So they right click some images and click "save as" and bam - they have a product. Except that they really do not have a product. They have a stolen picture of someone elses' product. Another popular tactic is to use uncredited images from the film to advertise their products. Imitation may be the finest form of flattery, but these vendors are not imitating. They are stealing intellectual property.

Why is this important?

Because you will put your hard earned money down paying for a product that does not yet exist or is grossly misrepresented. The vendor does not have a warehouse full of these jackets. They typically have nothing. Once you pay, they take your money and use it to have a jacket made. You have just paid for their prototype and to be their guinea pig. Maybe it will be decent quality and highly detailed, but that is extremely unlikely. It is usually the replica jacket fodder you see on eBay that looks as if the jacket was manufactured by preschoolers in a dark room.

They use stolen images from reputable manufacturers because their own jackets only vaguely resemble the ones from the film. If you do see images of their own jackets on their sites, they are usually terrible and do not look much like the jacket they are advertising.

I never come here to plug our site, but I really care people do not fall victim to these sites. While I fully understand you have to start somewhere, using stolen descriptions, other vendors images and film stills to advertise a site is not a sound ethical business practice. If you do business with a thief, do not be surprised when you are ripped off. There are other vendors out there who have put in their blood, sweat and tears to make a terrific product. Todd's Costumes, Magnoli, Wested, TNO, etc. You already know the players.

So please, watch for these warning signs:

stolen images

stolen descriptions

the use of studio images

ignoring questions or poor response to questions

poor spelling or bad grammar.

the "site" consists solely of a store.

The flip side is you may get an amazing jacket, but you are taking a gamble. If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is. Caveat emptor.

(Edited by Rick5150 to fix list tags )

Rick5150,
Thank you for the information. I visited the Celebwear website posted in this thread and it hit every wicket you listed. The grammar was embarrassingly poor and toward the end they referred to someone named "Henry Lucas" and "Harrison Honda" - not to mention "Raiders of the Dropped Ark" and "Indiana Jones and the Country of the Clear Brain". This sounds like it was translated word for word from another language. Very shady. Thank you again for information. It's nice having COW as a guide when wading the treacherous WWW. Not to mention supporting the legitimate small business owners who post here.

Cheers,
-W

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:33 pm

No problem.

Another thing that I forgot to mention is that the jacket selection will be more obscure than you might expect (Ghosts of Girlfriends Past, Shattered, The Cleaner, Sky High, Four Brothers, Carlito's Way, Training Day, Land of the Dead, etc.) because they do not really know the films, the jacket or the market. They just stole random images from my site and they are fishing for orders.

A good example? The vendors advertise a common jacket on many of those sites called the Oblow jacket that was worn by Zac Efron in the film 17 Again. I do not think that they realize that that is the style name from a label called Ever. People who think that they are getting an Ever Oblow jacket will be in for a rude awakening.

When you see these jackets advertised, it should set off an alarm bell.

If you want a good laugh, here is the link to one of the images I mentioned about using an action figure to sell jackets. I could not make this stuff up and have it come out any funnier.

Competition is almost always good for the customers and we should welcome it; but lies and deceit never are.

Jens_Hoppe · Post by **Jens_Hoppe** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:42 pm

rick5150 wrote:If you want a good laugh, here is the link to one of the images I mentioned about using an action figure to sell jackets.

That's a fine-looking jacket there! Looks like it could do with a bit of softening, though.

WConly · Post by **WConly** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:19 pm

I don't know Rick...to me the jacket on their site looks pretty good, but the model looks a bit plastic

! W>