question on the transition..

[Holt]

I have been reading alot on this but I figured I start a thread on it as well.

on one of my Roo whips the transition is becoming pretty loose and broken in now and seems alittle bit harder to use. it seems it needs alittle extra force to get a louder crack out of it. Now, before I go on, it may just be that the hairs on the cracker have become shorter and weaker after multi cracking and the cracker looses it sound? Im no expert. I dunno. but it could make sence to me if that is the case?

so, my question is, when the transition is fully broken in and noodle like, will it loose the loud crack as it would be to loose to handle? or is this something I dont have to worrie about? I imagine a 20 yeard old whip is pretty loose and noodle at the transition but in my mind I still think it can crack like a canon?

just worried about the whip becoming to weak so it wont crack much more. loud I mean!

I see Delongis breaking in his whip by force bending it in almost every way possible. that can't be good right? I confess I have done it myself but only one time and not exactly forceing it hard. just a wee bit.

please let me know your thoughts on this matter.

regards
H

[fifthchamber]

Although I'm no expert, I'd say that since the loudest cracks come from a well formed and tight loop being rolled out, you'd probably be a little better off with a relaxed, loose whip...Since the roll would start earlier and form over a longer space, meaning you'd have a little more time for the speed to pick up...

I would say that perhaps you lose a touch of accuracy with a looser whip? Since it's less "point and hit" predictable, but even that can be worked over in training so you get used to it and compensate naturally eh?

I'm interested in seeing what the experts say, but that would be my (marginally educated) guess...

Regards..

[riku1914]

There's two sides to each story, as they say. As fifth pointed out, a loose transition can cause the loop to form for a longer time,

yes. But, with a stiff transition, it springs back, and pushes the thong, while a loose one rely's more on the power of the throw.

There's a balance between loose and tight, and it changes due to people being different, what you're needing it for, and the way

whip is made. In my opinion, there is a "too loose" for bullwhips. The whips you see in indy a lot are way past the too loose point.

For a whip to be accurate ( as in targeting ) it doesn't need to be stiff at all, but you have to take into consideration it needing

to cut things, so a stiffness, like I said earlier that "pushes" the thong, can be helpful.

For single cracks, nothing really is needed, but again there is a "too loose" point.

Multiple cracking, loose = BAD. Too stiff = BAD ( just from what I've found ) because when it's too loose, it can't reforumulate the

loop, and you lose control or don't get good cracks ( or both ). Too stiff, from what I've found, can hurt your wrist badly after

multiple cracking for too long. Control isn't a problem, just the tire factor.

Some of this if not all may be obvious. I just like to make my whips with a certain stiffness to the transition, and I gauge this by

holding it up vertically ( with the heel facing down ) and I can tell if it's too much or too little, for me.

I don't like wet noodle whips, they look very indy, but they don't perform well all around. A happy medium, between a morgan

and a jacka, is what I look for. Though I tend to favor it looser than super stiff like a jacka. My next whip I make that I'm keeping,

in the thread of pics I'll take a pic of the transition stiffness before broken in, then after broken in, and hopefully it'll turn out how

I like

I'm anxious to see what others have to say about this.

[Canuck Digger]

This is a very interesting question which is sure to fire up passions and opinions. It is largely a question of taste but not only, there is also a mechanical function here and I will try to explore both.

Bullwhips are not stockwhips and are not meant to be used the same way. Each is better in some things and less in others. As David Morgan wrote "a bullwhips is properly used with little or no wrist action, with the end of the whip held in the palm of the hand, forming a loose ball and socket joint." What does this mean? Well it means that traditionally made bullwhips were mostly used in single throws, not multiple cracks and so were not built for this. They might have extra strands in the transition zone to strengthen it, but at this point in time, we are years before the advent of modern nylon and artificial sinew, so any reinforcement would largely be in the plaiting stage, though some bullwhips did use rawhide cores or even springs to reinforce the thong where is leaves the handle. But again, a bullwhip is not the best tool if heavy multiple cracking is what you're looking for. I know many use them in this way, but a stockwhip, which has a clean break at the thong/handle junction, might be a better whip design for multiple cracks. Having said this, some prefer bullwhips which will age more traditionally while others prefer whips with a stronger transition zone that will remain stiffer through the years. This is all a matter of taste and there is no arguing here.

Where differences of opinions might meet is where the integrity of the transition zone is concerned. I have eaten pasta that had more tone than some whips I've seen and aside from a functional consideration, this is where I feel there is a danger to the structure of the thong. If a whip becomes too loose here, there may be some chaffing between the tip of the handle foundation and the leather, which over time might lead to the leather being worn through from the inside out. While it may never get to the point where the handle foundation actually pokes out of the plaiting, it is clear that once this starts, the plaiting no longer serves its function and the whip is on its way to whip heaven.

This is my main concern when building the transition zone; to prevent this from happening for as long as possible, while giving the user the feel they are looking for. As I said, some like them looser, some less so, personally I like the transition zone to retain a measure of "springiness" even when the whip is well broken in. I find this helps in delivering energy to the thong with less effort and also allows me to use less of my arm to do so. With a very loose whip, one has to use a lot of arm and shoulder, like Indy does. But with a whip that has a bit of life in the transition zone, one only needs to bring their arm down for the whip to crack properly, and I find this is harder to do when the transition zone is very loose. Naturally a well-broken in thong is a great asset to easily deliver the energy from the arm to the tip, but in my view the thong ought to become a little bit stiffer the closer you get to the handle, not so much as when the whip is brand new of course, but I've found a measure of rigidity is helpful in maintaining accuracy.

A whip is really the sum of its parts and the transition zone is but one of those parts.

So what's my conclusion after all of this? -Simply that as long as the whip is soundly made and the handle foundation doesn't wear through the leather, how stiff or loose the transition zone is is pretty much a question of personal taste. This is why some folks really like one whipmaker over another. Ultimately, I think every whipmaker tries to build their own idea of what a perfect whip is and that's why everybody does things a little differently; because we all have slightly different notions. Just find the whipmaker that makes the whip that corresponds the most with your own idea of a perfect whip is and don't worry about what everybody else thinks. Then again, if you're hooked on whips, it can become a very widespread interest that includes whips from all over and from a great many whip artisans.

My two cents...


Franco

[Holt]

thanks for all your help so far. much appreciated