Jacka Transition

[riku1914]

I'm going tomorrow to tandy to pick up some roo hide ( on sale for CHEAP )

The standard colors they have is black, brown, and whiskey. If the one I'm going to doesn't by some chance have natural tan,

I'm going to get one hide of brown, and one of whiskey, and make a KOTCS whip. Using the whiskey for the bellies and knots,

and the brown for the overlay.

However, I want to do a jacka transition on it, but I don't know how far it should go. IF someone could tell me about how far

the last binding should go one, I can adapt the inner bindings to this, and hopefully it will work out.

Thanks as usual, I appreciate any light soembody could shed on the subject

[tomek9210]

Use some thick bolster and bind up to 3 ft. If you are going to do a 'Jacka' CS bullwhip, don't forget about lighter handle and heavier thong, faster taper and 8 plt point.

[riku1914]

All I have for bolsters is my 2-2.5 oz calf hide... I had planned on just doing internals the same as I normally would, but binding more

3ft. of binding wow, I might use up my artificial sinew and have yet another excuse to drop by a tandy

So he doesn't load his heel knot with lead?

Also, he does an 8p point? I didn't know that, I can do it but I had no idea

Oh and also, from the picture on his website, the thong doesn't look any wider than the handle, why did you say lighter handle,

heavier thong?

[tomek9210]

Lighter handle and heavier thong - by writing that I meant that the handle should be lighter than usual Morgan style bullwhip, I think Jacka uses some fibre glass handles while Morgan uses heavy steel spike. There is no lead, or very small amount. I think Bernardo Del Carpio wrote here on COW, that when he was converting one of his Jacka regular bullwhips into a CS whip, he found about 20 grams of lead in the handle. For comparison Morgan uses over 100 grams of lead.
Heavier thong - Terry uses thick bolsters from cowhide (belly, I believe it's only one plaited belly in his KOTCS whips, is also from cowhide).

Yes, it's 8 plt point and couple more loops at the fall hitch, 10 or even 12.

I don't know what exactly Terry uses for bindings, but if my memory serves well, it's a kind of polypropylene twine.

If I was about doing a CS whip using materials you have on hand, I would go with two bellies as usual and 3 bolsters, I would add that third shorter bolster to add the weight and thickness and stiffness. Also I would bind it up to 3ft mark (the longest binding after 3rd bolster).

Hope that helps!

[kwad]

From the info I can find on the net, TJ uses a 7" fiberglass rod as a handle foundation.
The bellies are made from "greasy chrome split cowhide " and then bound with polypropylene twine (since twine is thicker than sinew, that would explain some of the added thickness of the thong).

Here's a quote from Terry (found on the Indygear main site):

Tom (Tom Hill who taught Terry how to make whips ) used greasy chrome split cowhide for the inside workings of his whips and that is the leather I use now. It's soft, easy to work and has a sponge like ability to soak up plaiting soap. I put the longevity of Tom's whips down to his use of this leather and its internal oiling ability. I think It is not difficult to plait tightly but difficult to plait a tight bull whip. There is so much leather coming off the handle that you would have to pull the kangaroo set to more than its breaking strain to completely condense the underlying leather. The plaited bellies help but if they are six or four plait as most are then the plaiter would have to be satisfied with the tightness of them because plaiting resists squeezing, and that possibly is as tight as the whip will be.


There was always a small amount of binding on the transition point if the bullwhips we made with Tom, but looking back the whips were more stockwhip like in their action. The things I am trying to do with the binding of the transition is to make a firm base for the set to bite into and won't stretch or shrink as leather sometimes does, the other is to make the bullwhip a separate animal from a stockwhip. It is not that one is better it's that both are good for different applications. I use polypropylene twine to try to get the effect of a gradual decrease in the stiffness of the handle. I call this 'progressive flexibility', I know its corny but I have to call it something. The bindings are extremely tight and close and go the full length of the plaited belly and overcomes the belly's resistance to be squeezed. The main bolster and secondary bolster are bound the same way but finish in different positions. Then the foundation is tested for flex and curve and further binding is added depending on the length the whip to be or if I want to adjust the action.” —Terry Jacka

[riku1914]

I think that I'll basically make the whip how I usually would ( except 8 plait point, knots and wrist loop ) and just do a jacka binding.

Being "new" to making whips, I don't want to overcomplicate things too much yet. I think I'll stick to what I know, until I get much

better and get more experience under my belt. I'm afraid if I do too much now I'll get frustrated and will end up stopping.

BTW, how many strands should I do for a jacka wrist loop? It looks like four in his pictures but I can't be for sure.

Oh and one other thing, am in saying that both the heel knot and transition are 6bight 7 part 2 pass? I counted the parts, so I am

almost for sure, but I just like to have confirmation on the source.

Just found a pic showing fall hitch and some stiffness detail:

http://www.whip-basics.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=353

IT appears to be a 16 strand fall hitch

edit 2 : I just thought...

since you mentioned adding a 3rd bolster ( on top of second? ) I could just make the whip like I normally would, then adding the

3rd one, a short one, would make the whip to appear to taper quicker, as you mentioned earlier. How long do you think I

should make it? for an 8 ft. whip maybe what? 3ft? and should I do a 5th layer of binding? Normally I do it on 1st belly, 1st

bolster, and second belly. I think I'll do 4 layers, but should I bind the 5th?

[kwad]

Although it may have extra knots, if you count the fringe on the end, there only appears to be 8 strands.

[classicbullwhips]

You are correct wrist loop is 4 strands cut very thin.

Keep Crackin,
James

[tomek9210]

Yes, 7x6 two passes knots and 4 plt looong wristloop. I think 3ft would be ok, maybe a bit less. I would do the binding of course, it has to be stiff as ####, so one more layer of binding can make a difference.
Keep us updated!

[riku1914]

I definitely will.

I had planned on tapering my strands, on this whip, a little more than half way like I normally would, since I'm only dropping 4

instead of 6. How fine should I have my strands cut? I was thinking about 4mm @ 8 strands should cover the point well, then just

do a 14 or 16 strand fall hitch. I'll start with 14 and if it doesn't look right just do more

But 4mm, that should right?


Ok I've made up my binding scheme in my head for this, each layer I'll do a closed loop ( starting at ... about 8 inches past the

handle on my first layer ) then I'll do a close together criss cross to the point where my closed loop will end on the next layer,

so on my first layer I'll probably have about 8 inches of closed, and 8 inches of crisscross, second layer 16 inches of closed, and

say another 6 or 8 of crisscross, 3rd layer covering all that, and doing a bit more criss cross, then on the 4th layer ( second

bolster ) I'll do probably about 36 - 40 inches of closed loop, and if it doesn't seem as hard as I want, I'll do a layer or two

of close together criss cross over this ! Then on the short 2.5-3ft. bolster I'll be adding, I'll just do closed loop all the way down

this ( except maybe the last inch ).


On that subject, should I make that bolster end in a point, or should I end it solid and split it really really thin ( I taper split

bolsters for the last 25% of it, usually ending in about .45mm thick, should my splitter can go down to about .38 i think is what

I got)

So, answers would be awesome, the one's already answered just make me love this forum and you guys even more so now

[Indiana County Jr.]

Here are some pictures for comparison of a David Morgan vs a Jacka Indy IV transition to give you an idea of how big it will end up when completed.









Hope this helps!
Allen

[riku1914]

Ok everyone, I got my roo hide

I got a whisky, it's 6.46 sq. ft. ( 60 DM ) and a brown, that is 6.24 sq. ft. ( 58 DM )

I think the whisky one will be enough for my belly's and the handle knots ( I'm using some calf I have for bolsters )

but will the brown one ( 58dm , 6.24 sq. ft ) be enough for my overlay? I plan on making an 8 ft. whip, ending in an 8 strand point.

While I'm on the subject, will 4mm be enough for the point? I plan on tapering them lil past the middle, since I'm dropping to 8

rather than 6, and using a 14-16 strand fall hitch.

Will 58dm be enough for my 12 plait overlay, and will 4mm be a good width of the strands for the point?

Thanks

BTW I got the roo for 11.29 sq. ft. I'm so happy. I also got an 8oz roll of artificial sinew for 13 dollars, normal price 16-20

[riku1914]

Ok everyone, I got my roo hide

I got a whisky, it's 6.46 sq. ft. ( 60 DM ) and a brown, that is 6.24 sq. ft. ( 58 DM )

I think the whisky one will be enough for my belly's and the handle knots ( I'm using some calf I have for bolsters )

but will the brown one ( 58dm , 6.24 sq. ft ) be enough for my overlay? I plan on making an 8 ft. whip, ending in an 8 strand point.

While I'm on the subject, will 4mm be enough for the point? I plan on tapering them lil past the middle, since I'm dropping to 8

rather than 6, and using a 14-16 strand fall hitch.

Will 58dm be enough for my 12 plait overlay, and will 4mm be a good width of the strands for the point?

Thanks

BTW I got the roo for 11.29 sq. ft. I'm so happy. I also got an 8oz roll of artificial sinew for 13 dollars, normal price 16-20

[kwad]

Jeremy, we heard you the first time! Sheesh!

I'd use the whiskey colored one for the overlay. I think the screen used whips were more that color.

[riku1914]

http://theaustralianwhipco.com/default.htm

I was going off the picture here. The thong is darker than the knots, which is why I decided on those colors...

What about the other things I asked?

[riku1914]

I have another jacka whip question, I was told to do an extra long wrist loop, what does this mean? the usual is 6 in. so I'm thinking

8 inches, and will definitely put the knot in it like you see in indy 4, since my 5-6in. wrist loop can get in the way at times.

This sound right?

[tomek9210]

8 inches wrist loop sounds great. It should be long enough then to tie the knot on it.
When are you going to start?

[riku1914]

After I get a DW strander, which I have no idea when that'll be.

One thing I will do however is make my plaiting soap, and treat the bit of calf I have left over ( that I'm using for bolsters ) so I

don't have to let them sit overnight after cutting them. Other than that, hopefully I'll get the money together soon.

I would have gotten the strander before everything else, but since the sale on roo was only this month, I figured I should jump on

that while I could.

[KeepaySF]

Hi Riku,

I've just been catching up on cow posts after an absence of several months and, having read this entire thread (which seems to have been "dormant" for a few months) I am curious about whether you have finished this whip yet or had to set it aside for the time being. If you've finished it, how did it turn out?

I appreciate your attention to detail and attempts at nailing down replicatable, numerically-dependent techniques for whip making (which is obviously very tricky, at least in my experience, since we're working primarily with natural materials).

Peace

[riku1914]

I did finish the whip, but I ended up not making it a jacka style, just a TLC style with a slightly extended transition. Here is the whip:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I have since made several regular indy styles whips, and now that I am more experienced, I do plan to make a SA jacka style whip

sometime soon. Black knots, whiskey everything else, extended transition and extra thick. It'll probably be two or three whips

from now. I post pretty regular so you'll see them soon.

[drewtheman]

Very nice! How long did it take you to finish.

[riku1914]

Very nice! How long did it take you to finish.

That particular whip probably took 12 working hours, including pickup. That's about what I'm averaging recently, 12 hours for an

8 foot 12 plait whip.

[iwantamorganreelbad1]

Here are some pictures for comparison of a David Morgan vs a Jacka Indy IV transition to give you an idea of how big it will end up when completed.









Hope this helps!
Allen

Dang, that morgan looks fine. Pretty different than what I would imaginne a close up of a morgan would look like