The dilemma...

thefunkybat · Post by **thefunkybat** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:26 pm

Hi all - first time caller, long time listener...

So, I've been boggling my mind for quite a while now on a jacket to purchase. It always seemed to me that Indy's was a good blend of form and function.

After looking at ALL the styles/types/ways of ordering a jacket - I've come to a few decisions in what I'm looking for in a jacket. Now, bear in mind I'm not really look for a screen-accurate jacket. I could use ANY advice in trying to get the most, if not all, of these options:

Type - Though LC is my favorite movie and holds special meaning for me, I think I'd still like to get a Raiders style jacket for my first. There's something about how trim it is that seems ideal to me right now.

Color/skin - From what I've seen on here, I REALLY like the dark brown lambskin of Wested - I like the dark to almost black look of it, and it seems to me that Wested makes even lambskin jackets that are still tough - and seems like it could be worn year-round (with more layers in the colder months).

Collar - Here's where things start diverging away from Wested - I like the look of a more pointed collar on the jacket. It seems that Todd's and Magnoli make jackets with a sharper collar point - these could be more ideal-looking to me. Oh, and since it's Raider's style - to me that stipulates the collar should extend over the storm flap - otherwise I would get LC style with snaps.

Shoulders - I started to get excited from what I was seeing from Wested's Hero - but it's actually a bit too screen accurate for me (i.e. the fall off the shoulder look). I'm not a big fan fan of the seams falling off the shoulders. I DO like their standard Raiders look, and some of US Wing's selections, as they seem to be a little bit more of an updated version of Indy's jacket (i.e. a more fit look).

Back Panel - US Wings, Wested, and Magnoli seem to make a back panel on their jackets that, when viewed straight-on from the back, have a taper to them - I like the character it brings to the jacket.

Side Straps - I like the "buckle" look in the Todd's and Wested Hero - but it's not as important.

Well, there it is. I've been agonizing over this for months now, and can't figure out where to go from here. Maybe Wested would be willing to do some of these requests on a custom version of their Standard Raiders?

Also - what makes this difficult is that I'm not a fan of buying clothes on-line - I like trying on what I'm going to buy first. To that end, is there anyone in the metro Detroit area that owns Indy-style jackets willing to meet up with me so I can try on and check 'em out?

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:29 pm

For a Raider's jacket, looks like the best deals going right now are US Wings Antique Lamb Legend, or Todd's Indy jacket for just a few bucks more. I would highly recommend either option.

Weston

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:36 pm

Since Todd's has 99% of every detail you want, get that. Their customer service is great and if you don't like it they are very easy to deal with regarding exchanges and returns.

I doubt you would be disappointed, and actually be like most who fall in love with it out of the package.

Good Luck in your quest (it's daunted many of us for years) and welcome aboard.

APL · Post by **APL** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:36 pm

I'm in agreement with the others about Todd's. I just got one and out of the box it looks like a spot on Well of Souls jacket, and with a little dust and dirt that I managed to pick up this weekend it had a great Airplane Fight look... the best part, the fit is awesome and it already feels broken in.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:06 pm

I think you have sort of narrowed it down in talking yourself through it: Todd's or Wested. Todd's has that almost black appearance and if an OTR (s,m,l, etc.) jacket fits you well, his new run of Standard jackets should be given some thought. On the other hand, if you have difficulty with the fit of an OTR jacket, then a custom Wested would be a good choice. If you do not like certain features of the Hero jacket, then the RoLA pattern might be better. Probably the ultimate Indy type jacket is the G&B, with its accurate pattern, almost black appearance and hard wearing durability, an OTR option should be explored first, if price is a concern.

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:33 pm

Tex is right on the mark. If Todd's is a good fit on you, you are golden. If you need basic adjustments, Wested's new Hero let's you fit the back length and sleeve length, which is a godsend. I love their new seal brown lambskin, which is more accurately, sheepskin, but not shearling. It's a smudge thicker, and has a bit more character. It is a perfect color, slightly darker than their "authentic brown" and slightly lighter than their "dark brown".

wellofsouls · Post by **wellofsouls** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:40 pm

If you're wanting a dark brown Raiders jacket, as I deduce from your post, and want to do it once with no apologies, check out Gibson and Barnes in seal brown goat. It's the best at what it is: a bullet proof Raiders jacket derived directly from a screen jacket with construction that you won't wear out, and may not even break in. One Jacket to rule them all...

Indydawg · Post by **Indydawg** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 10:45 pm

There is NO shortage of options these days, that's for sure. The Wested Hero has been VERY well received of late, as have been the iterations offered by US Wings and Todd's.

_'s got a point on Wested (the history is all here if you're interested), but I have to admit I've not heard a single complaint about their new Hero design. I may have missed something, though, as I have been busy with work lately.

Me? I've got an Expedition, a Wings Legend, and an old Wested Raiders (from the late 90s, so it's a very unique design), that I just got from a guy on eBay...it's got some lining issues and it was artificially distressed with sandpaper, but, otherwise, it's in ok shape...

Of the three...if I had to keep one, it would be the Expedition....

For what it might be worth...

Indydawg · Post by **Indydawg** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:39 am

That's very true on the Expedition....but, sometimes one can luck up on one for sale in the classifieds here or eBay.

Yeah, Wested's "hit or miss" product and customer service is quite well-documented....as are discrepancies on the narratives...

The question becomes....like it always is, I guess, how much does that history matter in a jacket purchase, and how much can you afford to spend....

Best of luck in your decisions!

wellofsouls · Post by **wellofsouls** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:40 am

Sounds like you may want to go with Magnoli, sending him a detailed list of all your specifications. He can work with you to make a custom jacket. But remember that you're basically chasing something that doesn't exist. Which is the hobby for many, and that's fine.

The Expedition does tend to fall back off the shoulder slightly, at least mine does, which you may not like. But if it's cold or raining I just hunch my shoulders once and zip it up a little and it stays put like any normal jacket. The Expo is not any normal jacket. They show up regularly for sale and often what you hear is "this one just doesn't break down to look like a screen jacket" which it won't unless you're an ironworker or a cowboy and wear it every day.

CRB · Post by **CRB** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:05 pm

Can't believe that no one's mentioned filmjackets.com's own store - if anyone is going to nail the Indy design it's Rick. And at that price, looks like a great option.

Here's the link to his 'Explorer 1' jacket - is it ok to post it ?

http://www.filmjackets.com/ecommerce/in ... ucts_id=17" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

thefunkybat · Post by **thefunkybat** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:15 pm

Wow - so many responses in such a short amount of time...wish I could respond as quickly, but my job takes a lot out of me.

To answer some questions:

1. Price: trying to keep it around $300. $500 is pushing it just a bit too far to me, especially since this is a belated gift someone is giving me.

2. Wested Hero - I like everything about this jacket except how the shoulders "drape" - I'm not a big fan of the drape look, but then again I'm not looking for a screen-accurate jacket. I'd like something more fitted-looking.

3. Todd's jacket - MAN, I've stared at this one for a while. The only thing that I don't like is the way the back panel looks - it seems like Wested and US Wings have more distinctive back panels (i.e. taper). But except for that it's pretty close to fitting the bill (btw, did they just raise their prices recently? I thought they were around $150...)

4. US Wings - I honestly didn't start looking at them (the $400+ prices scared me away) until Weston mentioned the 30th anniversary antique lamb Legend. It seems pretty close. I'm wondering from the pics, though - do these jackets tend to be a little long? And does the collar extend over the storm flap? I can't tell.

SO, I think I covered everything. Please continue chiming in thoughts if you have them.

I have wondered for a while, though...think Wested would be willing to make a custom standard Raiders jacket with an adjustment to the collar (to make the ends more pointed instead of rounded) and buckle style sliders like on their Hero jacket?

Also, I take it there's no-one here living in metro Detroit that could let me try their's on.

Weston · Post by **Weston** » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:48 pm

thefunkybat wrote: 4. US Wings - I honestly didn't start looking at them (the $400+ prices scared me away) until Weston mentioned the 30th anniversary antique lamb Legend. It seems pretty close. I'm wondering from the pics, though - do these jackets tend to be a little long? And does the collar extend over the storm flap? I can't tell.
on.

They actually tend to be on the short side in body length, and plenty long in the sleeves. It offers plenty of room in the chest, shoulders, and upper arms, and will fit snug at the waist (it is adjustable, but I'm a 32" waist and have a snug fit with enough straps left to go even tighter if the grocery budget is reduced!). The collar stand ends right at the storm flap.

Weston

twistedotter · Post by **twistedotter** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:15 am

I completely understand your budgetary issues...I felt the same way a couple of years ago. I am now the proud (and somewhat obsessive) owner of a range of jackets from Wested, US Wings, G&B, and Todds. I can voice various gripes/likes about all of them. But, if I could go back and just buy one jacket it would be my G&B Expedition. I know, I know, it's pricey. And it hurt to turn over that dough. But I was rewarded with an absolutely quality through and through jacket. This is the one that your kids pass down to your grandkids. The other jackets are great, don't get me wrong, but my G&B is the only one that I truly feel could actually survive being dragged behind a truck. Will that ever happen? Probably not. But if it did I'm pretty sure there would be nothing left over but a bloody bag of bones wrapped in a practically unblemished Expedition.

And it just gets better and better with age. Indy jackets are an investment...a G&B Expedition is a life choice.

In my humble opinion, of course.

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:51 am

Ok, You've got me interested in a G & B Jacket. What do you prefer, Goat skin Or Lamb????

Gailen David

wellofsouls · Post by **wellofsouls** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:14 am

trdaggers wrote:Ok, You've got me interested in a G & B Jacket. What do you prefer, Goat skin Or Lamb????

Gailen David

Seal brown goat. You won't be sorry. The russett is a beautiful color too, but lighter and redder by several tones, and not at all like what's on screen. I know that isn't your goal. The color swatches on the G&B site are pretty useless. I don't know for sure, but I would definitely take the time to talk to them on the phone and get leather swatches if they're available. This isn't an impulse buy - it's an investment and it's worth a couple of weeks of research and thought.

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:30 am

They are listing the goat skin at $488. Seems like a bargin or am I missing something?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:35 am

Excellent used Expeditions show up in the classifed section all the time too, so keep that in mind.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:22 am

True, but sometimes there's nothing wrong with that.

I wear my chrome goatskin for dressier occasions, and for daily use, my veg. tanned version (like today).

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:56 am

Michaelson wrote:Excellent used Expeditions show up in the classifed section all the time too, so keep that in mind.

Regards! Michaelson

One is listed now and for a real bargain. Surprised it hasn't sold yet.

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:10 am

Yes, wrong size, need an extra large.

Gailen

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:13 am

Yeah, it's marked a 50R, but those measurements sure scream size 44, don't they?

Fantastic price ($100), but I wonder what shipping would be coming from South America.

Anyway, they come up all the time due to sizing issues for the original buyer, or the fact they prefer something they can faux distress quickly, and the chrome goatskin is not the candidate for that practice.

Regards! Michaelson

thefunkybat · Post by **thefunkybat** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:27 am

Michaelson wrote:Yeah, it's marked a 50R, but those measurements sure scream size 44, don't they?

Fantastic price ($100), but I wonder what shipping would be coming from South America.

Anyway, they come up all the time due to sizing issues for the original buyer, or the fact they prefer something they can faux distress quickly, and the chrome goatskin is not the candidate for that practice.

Regards! Michaelson

50R is a bit big for me, but I'll check it out...
I'm having a difficult time finding it in the classifieds section, though...can someone provide a link?

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:11 am

Whar's with the sizing issues with the jackets?

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:15 am

sumerize on this maker.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:16 am

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=53369" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'll let _ field your question. I've had no problems myself.

Regards! Michaelson

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:27 am

Does anyone know if this was an early sizing problem or one that continues today???

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:31 am

Well, it appears it may be a tag mistake to me, considering the supplied measurements. You change that to, say, a size 44 tag, you'd be on target.

I have a 44T that I got a couple years ago that was a standard OTR, and it's dead on for me size wise. I wear a 44R, but wanted one that was a bit longer in length to wear in the Plymouth when the temps dropped.....more of a 'car coat' rather than a standard jacket length.

Like I said, I've had no issues, and this one for sale is an interesting abboration to see if the measurements are correct, which I have no reason to believe they're not.

I just dropped Dave Marshall a line to ask him to take a look at that jacket ad and this thread to see if he can enlighten us as to what's going on here.

Regards! Michaelson

trdaggers · Post by **trdaggers** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:32 pm

Holly Cow! Thanks for taking your time to explain it to me. Sounds like a nightmare. It would certainly be different if you were going in a store and could try them on but with mail order it's a @#$% shot. Then add to that if you were possibly buying one used.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:51 pm

Well, considering the jacket in question is marked a size 50, and the measurement for the chest is 24.5 inches, that would come out sizing for a 49 inch chest, wouldn't it? If so, this jacket is actually UNDER sized as a size 50, or closer to 'true size' rather than being 'upsized'.

The label also appears to be an OTR version too, as there's no 'made to measure' tag.

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:00 pm

From the measurements, looks like a 44R, as my new one has those specs.

Post by **Dr. Nebraska S.** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:03 pm

trdaggers wrote:Ok, You've got me interested in a G & B Jacket. What do you prefer, Goat skin Or Lamb????

Gailen David

By the way, if you want to see some members' photos of their G & B jackets, you may want to check out this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=48537

Best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:04 pm

Then we're back to the wrong tag scenario.

Regards! Michaelson

serrecuir · Post by **serrecuir** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:22 pm

thefunkybat wrote:Also, I take it there's no-one here living in metro Detroit that could let me try their's on.

thefunkybat wrote:50R is a bit big for me, but I'll check it out...

Funkybat,

I'm currently in Pontiac for work and have my Wested and new Todd's jacket with me. You haven't mentioned what your actual size is yet, but my jackets are a size 40R and Medium, respectively. I'm happy to let you try them on, if these are your size.

Kind regards,
Craig

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:26 pm

Nope, this is the one for sale in the classified ad. Link supplied above in one of my other replies.

I'm wearing the jacket you sent me today. It's tagged size 48, and 'made to measure' both.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:52 pm

Yep, fits like it was made for ME, and I'm a solid size 44!

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:53 pm

...can I interest you in a jacket in the bazaar...?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:57 pm

Nope. I'm good.....

Post by **Dr. Nebraska S.** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:01 pm

_ wrote:
Michaelson wrote:I'm wearing the jacket you sent me today. It's tagged size 48, and 'made to measure' both.

Regards! Michaelson
So I DID get one with the label? But ya gotta admit - if that's a 48, I'm a teetotaler!

Michaelson wrote: Yep, fits like it was made for ME, and I'm a solid size 44!

Regards! Michaelson

Wow, does that mean my 48 R G&B is really a size 44? If so, and it's loose on me, then hey--my working out for the past year paid off WAY more than I had hoped!!!! $\:D/$

Best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:12 pm

You missed the other tag I mentioned, 'made to measure', so it's not exactly like a size 44, or 48 for that matter.

Plus the fact the jacket is over 10 years old.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Dr. Nebraska S.** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:18 pm

Michaelson wrote:You missed the other tag I mentioned, 'made to measure', so it's not exactly like a size 44, or 48 for that matter.

Plus the fact the jacket is over 10 years old.

Regards! Michaelson

You're ruining my waistline's "suspension of disbelief".

Best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Oct 27, 2011 2:28 pm

twistedotter · Post by **twistedotter** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:47 am

Sorry, it took me a little while to get back. I've been travelling. Here's how G&B's sizing works for me. I have 3 Expeditions. One I ordered online in lamb (46L) that I drenched and then dried to shrink it a bit, one bought used in goat (44R...a teeny bit snug), and one that I travelled to California to order in person (I live in Texas). The one I ordered in person wound up being a goat with a 46R body and 44S arms. Yes, that's my "perfect fit" size. I've found that their sizes are pretty much spot on. Perhaps just a *tad* on the large side, but not so much that I really notice. If you order one OTR and *don't* take the tags off, you can send it back and try again if it doesn't fit. Custom sizing, though, means it is yours forever...no returns. So I suggest going with OTR for the time being. I usually gravitate towards a 46 suit coat and XL generic sizing. The 46R from G&B is pretty much spot on (just wanted the sleeves a little shorter, hence the 44S sleeves on my custom). Depending on your height, you might want to go for the long or short. Basically, you can count on losing/gaining a 1.5-2 inches in length depending which way you go. I'm 5'7" and the regular length wound up being just fine. Comes to just below the tops of my back pockets.

As for lamb vs goat...that's a tough question. My lamb just slides onto me like silk and I can't help but have a short "ahhhhh" moment every time I put it on. However, I just don't feel that the lamb is going to last nearly as long as my goat. The goat involved some work breaking it in, but I know where every single crease came from and it just screams "sturdy" as I made clear in my last post. I am confident that my goat will far outlive me. Plus, you get to save a few bucks over the lamb.

So, there you go. If you are typically an XL, I suggest starting with the 46 in goat. The lamb I bought a while back was seal brown. That is, a dark brown that lightens up with use and the accompanying scrapes and wear marks. I wasn't given on option with the goat, but it looks to be about the same color.

Also, please don't hesitate to call them. They have always been super nice and willing to work with me to get exactly what I want. For something this expensive it's important to get it right...and they understand that. They've even been known to send leather samples so you can decide which way to go.

Later,

TwistedOtter

wellofsouls · Post by **wellofsouls** » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:20 am

You could use me as a suit mannequin for 44R - I usually get a perfect fit OTR. My Expedition is a 42 - I bought it used from the Bazaar, and the PO had let the sleeve length out about 1/2" at the cuffs. The jacket has a close, military fit which is exactly what I wanted, and the sleeves are perfect. If I had actually bought a 44, I'm sure the body would have had the perfect, slightly loose Raiders look it's intended to have, so I wouldn't hesitate to order my regular size if that's what you want.

Sleeve length would be the killer for me - the shoulder seem falls off the shoulder, so just measuring sleeve length itself can be misleading because of this. Mine is perfect but then I like sleeves that are right on my wrist, like a shirt, and I don't think I've seen anyone's jacket photos on COW that I didn't think were too long in the sleeve - it would drive me insane to have the sleeves down on the back of my hand.

Was I to buy a new Expo, I'd order my regular size OTR and be ready to send it back a couple of times until I got one that fit. The made to measure service might push it out of your price range, but then you'd have The One Jacket and you could check that box off forever.

Edit: oh, and another thing - the Expo has the Holy Grail of outerwear - nice small arm holes. You cannot overstate the importance of this. Nothing's worse than looking like M.C. Hammer every time you raise your arms.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:42 pm

About two years ago, I ordered a G&B Exp. in lamb that had to be made, and it was a 44R. The pits measurement was 27" and it was an oversized fit. Sleeves and torso were much wider than I expected.

This year, I bought a 44R in goatskin that was already on hand, and it fits like it was made for me. The pits are 25 1/2", sleeves and back length both measure 25".

If you want to order one of these jackets, I'd advise to first ask if they already have any in your size in stock. If so, then maybe they could measure it for you to see if it would fit correctly. If not, then they will have to make you one, and it might be possible to request certain measurements? Many have ordered an OtR size, and had it sent to them to see how it would fit, then as long as you have not worn it, or taken the tags off, you can send it back for either the next size up or down, or custom measurements. This would be a much better scenario than to do custom measurements that didn't fit, then the jacket is nonreturnable, because of the custom specs.

Internet ordering is not always fun, but you can make it work to your advantage.

wellofsouls · Post by **wellofsouls** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:38 pm

Yeah, like I said, I would definitely be ready to send that (OTR sized) jacket back if it wasn't right, tweaking the sizes up and down as needed. Do it right the first time. It must be cool living close by - you could go through all of them and get the perfect one.

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:01 am

_ wrote:Well, gotta take issue with one comment. The jacket used as a basis for the Expedition was a 40 made by Wested and was a traditionally cut 40 in that respect. It measured 22.25 pit-to-pit. G&B brings their own sizing to they party here, and my experience with their jackets is that they are indeed a good size larger than just about every other maker. It's not derogatory but it is accurate and important for buyers to know. Jmo...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk...

Exactly. They run large. Not sure why some folks here would argue that they don't?
The Expedition is exceptionally well made and sturdy (goat, at least), but the proportions are quite off for an Indy jacket.
Very wide chest, short sleeves and body. Add an extra two inches to the sleeves and they'd be on a real winner I think.
They're actually very well priced too, all things considered.

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:02 pm

Blaming the poor fit of the G&B on the _ mechanism. Wow, the mods have sunk to a new low!

*joking, joking*

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:54 pm

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:17 pm

Tundrarider wrote:
Kevin Anderson wrote:Exactly. They run large. Not sure why some folks here would argue that they don't?
If I'm one of the folks you're referring to, I'm not arguing anything. I'm just stating a differing opinion based upon my own personal experience. I still stand by this statement, though others might disagree: Michael

I agree with you, TR, my experience as well and I've stated as much on many occasions.....but if you'll note my avatar statement, it goes without saying these days.

Regards! Michaelson