Bag straps...important piece of gear? or..

Post by **Holt** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:27 am

In my opinion, yes! the bag strap is a huge part of getting the correct Raiders look. if the strap is too dark it becomes temple/LC/CS.......

the last year or so I have been slowly upgrading my gear with custom mods to get the perfect raiders look. (I have not shown it off yet) I want that lived in, slept in and ruffed up adventure gear look WITH all the correct raiders details. ........don't we all. lol

so anyways, onto the strap.. I have had many bag straps over the years but none of them had the correct Raiders look. they were either too dark, too stiff, too shiny, too wide, to new looking or no grooves at all which has to be there!!

IMO, Indy's strap, in raiders looks like it was used and handled alot over the years of adventuring. it looks like it was dragged on the ground because Indy did alot crawling in caves or sandy places. etc and from that it got that light brownish aged look. it also looks like he handled it alot as well. when you look closely the strap looks to be lighter in some areas and darker oily'ish in other places. most likely from the oil of his hands. and that was the look I wanted for the raiders strap..

so, today I took out my extremely dark Todds strap. Let me add that this is a high quality strap but as many Todd strap owners know, it is very dark and very stiff and IMO the color is too red as well. at least the first run from Todds. So, I took this strap and got to work. I stripped of the dark surface, and began ruffing it up. knife, sandpaper, draging it on the ground.etc..just really ruffing it up. it became very loose and broken in and the color became very very light. after this I sat down with the strap and handled it with my hands. kept rubbing my thumbs on it to get that naturaly hand darkend oily look and this is the result. I'm pretty happy with it. now it looks like Indys strap that has seen alot of adventures. I have been in contact with some metal workers and I am custom making the buckle. should look awesome on this strap.

what do you think? and how important do you think the strap is?

TenuredProfessor · Post by **TenuredProfessor** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:38 am

Very nice, Holt!!! I did the exact same thing to my Todd's strap

It has the proper width, and with some distressing, it's Raiders all the way!

Oildale Jones · Post by **Oildale Jones** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:04 pm

I agree that color is important to the look. And yours looks fantastic! I'll use your tips when I get to work on mine.

Now, just to be a smart-aleck: Your fingers don't actually produce oil; it's from your face. So touch your forehead first or rub the strap across your face...

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:56 pm

The ToD/LC strap rules! Nuff said. Peace out!

sam · Post by **sam** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:28 pm

Holt, you're right, the right strap makes a big difference! A lot of the ones I've seen looked too red. Yours looks great! From what I've heard and seen here at COW, I think Wade's saddle color makes a great Raiders strap! More of the SOC look. Not red, just sort of a flat brown/tan color. Very cool. Maybe he could post a pic. I have his CS strap (I was one of his first customers) and love it! Just gets better with use! I'll probably order one of his Raiders straps sometime, but will get it without the grooves. Not being able to see the grooves, or just barely being able to see them is a big part of the look too. I'm not saying the original strap didn't have them, I'm just saying that I can't see them, and never would have thought it had them if it weren't for folks here who are in that camp. Don't want to ruffle anyones feathers. I don't doubt that it may have had them though, since the original strap is said to have been based on a rifle sling, and I have seen up close and personal an old rifle sling that had grooves that weren't even discernable from even a few feet away. So, when the groovs are TOO pronounced on a strap, I personally think it takes away from the true Raiders look. Just my 2 Cents.

Indiana Jake · Post by **Indiana Jake** » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:00 pm

Holt wrote:if the strap is too dark it becomes temple/LC/CS.......

I have to respectfully disagree. For me, it's the strap width and big flat square buckle that makes a strap Raiders. The Raiders strap can be much darker and still nail the look. In order for the strap to become TOD/LC/ CS it just has to be thinner (7/8")

JMO!

Michael

[/quote]

Micheal,

I have to agree. Our taste in bag straps is extremely similar. I think your picture really nails it. Thanks for sharing. Nice work on the hand stitched TOD/LC strap.

Jake

Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 1:39 am

sam wrote:I have seen up close and personal an old rifle sling that had grooves that weren't even discernable from even a few feet away. So, when the groovs are TOO pronounced on a strap, I personally think it takes away from the true Raiders look. Just my 2 Cents.

your right, I agree with you on that one. to much grooves and it takes away the look. it's a fine line.

we hardly can see the grooves on film but they are there. well, at least my eye is telling me this. in some scenes, or most, does look like the strap was without grooves and is the reason I sanded the grooves on the strap so they would not stand so much out....

Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:54 pm

of course not!!

sam · Post by **sam** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:25 pm

That's definitely food for thought, Michael! Oh, and I'm sure Wade could do the strap with the grooves made so lightly they would harldy show up if requested. I think he was the first one who mentioned that the grooves were probably light. I knew to check out the grooves on the rifle sling because of that. Though, I think my CS strap is an inch wide (I can check later- there was discussion a while back as to whether the CS strap would have originally been made 7/8 or if they were originally made an inch and then shrunk up over time as they got wet in the distressing process by the props department.) and it doesn't have grooves and seems to be about I would imagine the Raiders strap looking in terms of width, just the CS color instead of the Raiders saddle color. I've wondered sometimes if the grooves, if they are there, do, as you said, subconsciously affect the way the eyes see it. If I end up getting one without grooves one of these days, I'll have to let you know, my friend!

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:48 pm

It's so funny how many times the 'grooves/no grooves' conversation comes up. Probably the most debatable issue with any of the Indy gear. Here is my official opinion:

Yes, the Raiders strap was originally made with grooves. However, since the leather went through extensive distressing and was soaked and dried enough times it is very hard to see the grooves on screen in any action scenes or close up shots unless the lighting is correct or you go super OCD and screen capture and enhance (which I've done lol). So the best way to be as SA as possible IMO would be to get a strap with grooves and distress them right out of it only leaving traces.

For the ToD/LC/CS strap, yes I think the width of the strap is definitely less than the Raiders strap but am not as convinced as Jake that it is a 7/8" buckle. IMO those straps were severely distress and soaked to the point of massive stretching and that along with the beveled edges on both sides creates a slimmer width strap than 1". I think the 7/8" strap looks great and quite possibly could be the true size but it's so hard to tell. I personally bevel both sides of the ToD strap and only one side of the Raiders strap (letting the grooves give the slimmer appearance).

But it basically comes down to what Michael has so eloquently stated: it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Does it really matter if your strap is the same as other folks straps? Or rather is it more important that you get what you like and see to be correct and are happy with your strap in any form? That's why the COW is such a great resource. You can find all the options and then pick the one you like the most and go with it. There will always be someone who disagrees with you. Each individual's happiness is what I think is the true goal in the end. It may sound callous but I don't care what other people think of my gear (the gear I wear!), I only care what I think of my gear. To each his/her own.

W.E.

P.S. As for making straps, I'm more than happy to match any shade of brown that my customers want for their leather in addition to custom sizing it to your measurements. I do after all aim to please.

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:44 pm

See... to me the only strap there that looks 7/8" is the CS strap in contrast to the size of the shirt buttons. Plus, the part of the strap that would stretch isn't the leather which is attached to the buckle hence the look of the filled buckle with the reduced width above and below the buckle. That's why the leather in TOD shot above which is attached to the buckle is much thicker than the strap passing through the buckle. JMHO. In general though I respectfully choose to not agree or disagree only to observe and supply what is asked for.

W

PS> If you soak a completed strap and naturally stretch it out while it's being worn with the buckle attached the part that stretches is the over the should part which isn't doubled over and not the attachment piece. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

Jedirun · Post by **Jedirun** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:29 pm

Thank you for the inspiration Holt and Tundrarider. Tundrarider, I used the method you posted above to distress my Todd's strap. (Beating the bend with a hammer after slathering the strap with Pecard's.) I liked the results so much I used the same method on Todd's weapons belt.

Here are the results.

I did not take before pictures, but they looked pretty much the same except for being smooth.

I am using this opportunity to try to distress my Todd's bag. I will see how that turns out.

Dr. Jones

jlhampton · Post by **jlhampton** » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:12 pm

No offense to anyone here, but can you guys really detect 1/8'' difference...to scale... from screen caps? I'm an artist, worked in construction a long time, and was a draftsman for several years,... I, for the life of me cannot detect that kind of size difference from any screen pic. I appreciate all the hard work that has gone into prop and gear replicating because S.A. is important to me as well, but wouldn't it just be easier to find out what the actual specs were of the original piece and just, I don't know, accept it for what it is. Does anyone know what the specs to these particular pieces are? Was the Raiders strap 1''. If so, fine. Get one that is 1'' unless you want it a different size for yourself. Of course, distressing your gear and making it your own can be part of the fun of this hobby, too.
By the way, I own a Magnoli bag strap and it's a pretty nice one. It has grooves, but they are not so prominent. It is very soft in texture, yet very durable. Some straps can be stiff. This one is not and is very comfortable to wear on an everyday basis.

jlhampton

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:57 am

I bought one of Jake's first 7/8" CS straps and it looks great with my WPG original WWII bags. The Raiders strap looks wider to my eye and I do graphic design for a living.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:26 am

I've always maintained that the non-Raiders strap is thinner. However, I prefer the Raiders strap over the thinner look. The thin just looks a little too purse-like to me...

Post by **Holt** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:49 am

very nice compare Tund. really says it all

jlhampton · Post by **jlhampton** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:16 pm

Thanks, Michael, for the pic comparisons. Your eyes do not deceive you. From those pics the Raiders strap is wider than the others and you can really tell from looking at the buckle. I guess what I was trying to get at earlier was, is what we are seeing on screen really the size we think it is, unless the maker of the screen used strap confirms that it is that particular size or we have something on screen to reference its scale. To me, it doesn't really matter either which way. I like what I have and that's all that matters. I measured my Magnoli strap and it is 7/8''.

jlhampton

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:03 pm

Holt,

That strap looks amazing! I think you nailed the look and color depicted in that picture

I'm thinking of doing my Todd's strap. It turned a dark redish color after being conditioned and I'm not liking it very much.

Jedirun,

Is that the buckle that came with your Todd's strap?
The one that came with mine is thick and made of cast pewter (ended up swapping it out).

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:55 pm

Well in all honesty, and by definition it is a purse no matter what strap is on it. A very cool purse, but a purse none the less.

And before anyone thinks I'm bashing those of us who use this purse, let me just say I have used my pur...I mean satchel on several occasions and it is quite handy thank you very much!but it really is a purse

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:04 pm

'It's a satchel. Indiana Jones wears one.' ~ Alan - 'The Hangover'

If you're man enough to wear the bag you're man enough to put people who scoff at it in their place. lol

Jedirun · Post by **Jedirun** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:22 am

kwad wrote: Jedirun,

Is that the buckle that came with your Todd's strap?
The one that came with mine is thick and made of cast pewter (ended up swapping it out).

kwad,

Yes, that is the one that came with it. I bought it about a year ago. The separate buckle on the site says it is pewter. This one looks like it is steel and it is thinner. I do not know whether it is a newer or older version.

Dr. Jones

Oildale Jones · Post by **Oildale Jones** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:06 am

I bought a strap from Todd's a few weeks ago and it came with the thinner buckle attached. I also ordered the separate ($2.95) buckle and it's the thicker one, which I like better. Funny how that works.

Post by **Holt** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:05 pm

grooves anyone?

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:47 pm

Is that the strap from the Rolling Stone shoot? I thought they improvised a strap for that...

The reason I ask is there is no buckle. Either way, I've never seen that shot that close up!

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:55 pm

I think you're right about that being the Rolling Stone shot Travis. I can't find the info on that photo but I'm pretty sure I read about it somewhere on here.

Again, if you want grooves you can have them. If you don't, you don't have to have them. Easy as pie.

W.E.

Indiana Jake · Post by **Indiana Jake** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:20 pm

Follow along with this old thread. More 7/8 bag strap info if should you find yourself with some time on your hands.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=43469" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:06 pm

Just bumped Jake's thread so it's at the top. Jake, do you know who made the shirts for CS? I seem to remember something about that but am not seeing it. The reason I ask is because if we can find out the diameter of the shirt buttons we can figure out the strap width by photoshopping the buttons over the strap. Just a thought. I'm pretty sure you're right but it would be nice to lay this to rest.

My first strap was only 1/2" wide. lol

1985

Post by **Holt** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:09 pm

I love this picture! this one and the one Minnesota Jones has inhis self made gear. it really says it all about the research we did back then and how EXTREMELY far we have come today. too cool!

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:21 pm

Even at 13 years old I was pretty ballsy with it. I used to tell everybody I wanted to be a costume designer when I grew up. My uncle was involved in the movie business back then and encouraged me to find out things about my favorite movies by calling to find out costume information cause there was no internet back then so research was done the old fashioned way. Also, a family friend of ours worked for Lucas and helped me find out some things and gave me behind the scenes info. He retired in 2004 but right before he did he took me to Skywalker Ranch and gave me a private tour of the place where there are a lot of costumes and props on display in glass cases. I saw everything but Lucas' office, it was pretty cool. That's where I first got a look at one of the gun belts but unfortunately there was just the whip, a hat and gun belt but no strap or bag. He took me to a private screening of Saving Private Ryan there, too which was probably the most awesome movie experience I had since standing in line for Raiders when I was 9 years old. But I digress....

Someone has asked me to get a CS strap made and uber distressed to try and replicate the look of the LC and CS strap. I'll photograph the process and see if I can more clearly describe what I was trying to say about the beveling and stretching of the leather. Visuals always help make a good point.

W

Indiana Jake · Post by **Indiana Jake** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:26 pm

[quote="Wade Egan"]Just bumped Jake's thread so it's at the top. Jake, do you know who made the shirts for CS? I seem to remember something about that but am not seeing it. The reason I ask is because if we can find out the diameter of the shirt buttons we can figure out the strap width by photoshopping the buttons over the strap. Just a thought. I'm pretty sure you're right but it would be nice to lay this to rest.

My first strap was only 1/2" wide. lol

Wade, as friends we may never be able to let it rest till we get our hands on something screen used!

Last night a friend of mine said he worked with a tailor at a costume house that made some items for HF, but I understand this info is difficult if not impossible to get. Another member here said Anto (?) of Beverly hills made the KOTCS shirts. While we're at it, maybe the buttons used on a Noel Howard shirt would give us a good reference point? Also the placket width on one of Noel's shirts may also provide a measurement. This re-posted comparison photo may help some of you make your own decision. I happen to own all three, so I never have to commit to anything!

Indiana Jake · Post by **Indiana Jake** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:32 pm

1985

[/quote]

Wade, I love seeing the older photos of us COW members before we had the resources. There is something pleasing to the eye to see what we did before we could get our hands on the good stuff. You know, improvising, making it up as you go along. Perhaps we can start a photo thread of members gear before they joined COW. But I digress.

Jake

Post by **Holt** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:33 pm

Cool story Wade. Thanks for sharing!!

on to the strap...man, I have to admit, I have always ben a firm believer the strap had grooves, but.....

I see NO grooves in this strap. I mean, we perfectly see the tiny small white stitch line on the shirt pleat. Red arrow and I figured if we saw a tiny white stitch line on a white shirt we should have seen grooves on the strap. right? I played with the shadows, colors, contrasts and brightness in photoshop and nothing...
only a tiny small part inside the buckle on the left side but it is not convincing enuff for me as I see nothing above or under...

weird, other scenes I think I can see grooves but like I said, my eyes could play a trick on me..

man, this is ineresting.

wade, I may get another strap in the closest color to what we see here. light brown. no grooves

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:39 pm

I've done the same thing with various screen caps and came to the same conclusion you have Holt. In some shots you can clearly see grooves and in others such as this one you've shared there doesn't seem to be any. That's why I offer both styles, to appease both camps.

I'd be happy to color match a strap for you.

Jake, thanks! Perhaps a before and after thread would be fun?

W

Post by **Holt** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:41 pm

Wade Egan · Post by **Wade Egan** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:40 pm

I took your suggestion Jake and started a before COW and after COW thread in the scrapbook section.

Here you go:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=53290&p=768726#p768726" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

indydude18 · Post by **indydude18** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:33 pm

Holt wrote:Cool story Wade. Thanks for sharing!!

on to the strap...man, I have to admit, I have always ben a firm believer the strap had grooves, but.....

I see NO grooves in this strap. I mean, we perfectly see the tiny small white stitch line on the shirt pleat. Red arrow and I figured if we saw a tiny white stitch line on a white shirt we should have seen grooves on the strap. right? I played with the shadows, colors, contrasts and brightness in photoshop and nothing...
only a tiny small part inside the buckle on the left side but it is not convincing enuff for me as I see nothing above or under...

weird, other scenes I think I can see grooves but like I said, my eyes could play a trick on me..

man, this is ineresting.

wade, I may get another strap in the closest color to what we see here. light brown. no grooves

Holt, as an optician, I need you to call me immediately, because you need glasses man!

I think I can see grooves in this picture man! I think........

Oildale Jones · Post by **Oildale Jones** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:09 pm

As with the jacket, I suppose there were a couple of different straps and bags, depending on, well, a variety of factors. Does anyone know (or have a theory) about whether the original strap(s) was/were a found item, or based on something existing?

Over in the "full gear" thread, in chris.jones's awesome picture he indicates that his bag strap is a sling from an H&K G3 rifle. Aside from the 50" length, it seems like a good candidate. CTD sells them. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MGR022-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And they're grooved.

But look what happens to the grooves on a well-used original:

Food for thought.

indydude18 · Post by **indydude18** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:40 pm

Oildale Jones wrote:As with the jacket, I suppose there were a couple of different straps and bags, depending on, well, a variety of factors. Does anyone know (or have a theory) about whether the original strap(s) was/were a found item, or based on something existing?

Over in the "full gear" thread, in chris.jones's awesome picture he indicates that his bag strap is a sling from an H&K G3 rifle. Aside from the 50" length, it seems like a good candidate. CTD sells them. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MGR022-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And they're grooved.

But look what happens to the grooves on a well-used original:

Food for thought.

Wow, interesting!

And that buckle looks spot on! All you have to do it flatten it out!

Oildale Jones · Post by **Oildale Jones** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:09 pm

Oildale Jones wrote:Aside from the 50" length, it seems like a good candidate.

Actually, a 50" strap would be just about right IF it didn't have the loop in the front. So, um, yeah.

(Quoting myself. How meta.)

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:16 am

Oildale Jones wrote:As with the jacket, I suppose there were a couple of different straps and bags, depending on, well, a variety of factors. Does anyone know (or have a theory) about whether the original strap(s) was/were a found item, or based on something existing?

Over in the "full gear" thread, in chris.jones's awesome picture he indicates that his bag strap is a sling from an H&K G3 rifle. Aside from the 50" length, it seems like a good candidate. CTD sells them. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MGR022-1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And they're grooved.

But look what happens to the grooves on a well-used original:

Food for thought.

EXCELLENT point!

Post by **Holt** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:18 am

I agree! this strap looks close to identical to the one in the screen rab above!

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:13 pm

It was stated to me by the propmaster of Paramount back in the early 80's that the straps were nothing more than rifle straps they grabbed at an English military surplus store, obtained the same time they got the bags. They changed out the hardware, and voila!

It's been posted on several occasions in the past 15 years, and after folks get all interested and excited, it dies down, and gets rediscovered over and over again.

Eg: Here's one from 2007:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=9981&hilit=rifle+strap" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting hobby, ain't it?

Regards! Michaelson

Oildale Jones · Post by **Oildale Jones** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:18 pm

On the one hand, once something is on the Internet, it's there forever. On the other hand, the Internet has a memory like a goldfish.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:28 pm

You're absolutely right....er....what were we talking about?

Mitch LaRue · Post by **Mitch LaRue** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:38 pm

I think we were talking about how completely COOL it is that the majority of people who keep coming here keep learning NEW (old) stuff!

(Oh... and that we'd all be pretty much LOST without folks like yourself letting us know how much we don't know!)

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:39 pm

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:50 pm

I've used that exact rifle strap on my bag since Jerry's post years ago and its held up far better than the bags have!

In fact, I prefer it with the hook on it, as it's more practical and looks cool.

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:51 pm

GASP!!!! But Bink, that is not SA!!!!!

Seriously though...I'd like to see some pics of that.

Sounds awesome!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:36 pm

It looks just the same, including the buckle, but with the clip and button attachment ends as shown in the previous product shot. Truthfully, if it's under a jacket, you can't tell the difference.

indydude18 · Post by **indydude18** » Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:38 pm

Hey Bink,

From the pictures I've seen, the straps seem to be made of a very thick leather. Is that the way yours is? Is it grooved as well?