My First Kangaroo bullwhip -Build Log - Mod Approved - PICS

[Canuck Digger]

The reason it's only flaking on the thong is because the handle doesn't flex.

The shellac solution is either too thick or you put too much on. Either way, it can be removed with the same alcohol you use to thin down the shellac. I used to have the same problem at first and the issue was actually these two points working at the same time to create a coat that was too thick to be able to bend without cracking. Try thinning down a small amount and take notes on the proportions by which you are thinning the shellac so you can reproduce it if need be to the rest of the shellac. Test it on a scrap of leather and try it with a pad, and apply two coats.

Franco

[WhipDude]

Hmm, some of the other photos make it look like a whiskey color unless I'm hallucinating. Must be the camera?

[tomek9210]

WhipDude it's because Riku showed two of his whips - one, the first he built, natural tan kip bullwhip and the second one, whisky roohide bullwhip.

[WhipDude]

I knew it looked whiskey. I missed that somewhere....

[riku1914]

I knew it looked whiskey. I missed that somewhere....

I can understand how that would have been confusing

My bolster hide came in today, I ordered yesterday @ around noon

18.75 sq. ft., the longest point on it is 7' 9"

No more splicing for me

Oh also I bought some more denatured alcohol, diluted the shellac some, let it sit some, then did two light coats on my new whip.

I'm going to let it hang for a while then I'll take some pics.

Here's the bolster hide :



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edit: ( joking ) I'm a little hurt you think my first whip's very uneven strands with shellac on it looks better than my second whip

with much more even strands without shellac

[riku1914]

I put two light coats on the whip. It isn't really shiny, which I'm happy with as I don't like how shiny that first whip was, this one

just looks really nice with a low sheen :



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If anyone wants to see something specific on it, let me know and I'll snap a pic of it

[Canuck Digger]

amazing looking second whip. Congratulations.

Franco

[riku1914]

amazing looking second whip. Congratulations.

Franco

Thanks a lot

When I shellacked the first whip, by this point it had already started to split, this one hasn't yet. In fact near the point I

intentionally flexed it back and forth a couple times. Nothing. Let's hope it stays that way.

Now that I got the bolster hide in, and since I have quite a lot of roo left over from this, I can start the next one now. Whenever

I can I'll be ordering some roo from murphy's site.

[WhipDude]

Are you doing this for personal enjoyment primarily? Or do you have plans to one day become a reputable vendor?

[riku1914]

Are you doing this for personal enjoyment primarily? Or do you have plans to one day become a reputable vendor?

For now I'm just doing it for fun. I'm going to start selling them on ebay or as starter whips to fund for more hides. That would be

awesome to someday be able to do. Would just have to wait and see how things work out.

[WhipDude]

Great. If you continue to improve, you have a future in whip making no doubt. Have you considered sending your whips to another maker to critique?

[tomek9210]

Now go and use it! Tell us how it's cracking!

[Marhala]

Riku, congratulations. The whip looks very good for being the second in leather, and the first one in roo. Keep working on it.

Aldo.

[tomek9210]

How thick is the handle and the thong (past ringknot and before fall hitch)?

[riku1914]

How thick is the handle and the thong (past ringknot and before fall hitch)?

The handle turned out to be 20.56mm in diameter, and the

start of the thong is 23.10 mm. Also the point of the whip, just

before the fall hitch is 7.02mm

Great. If you continue to improve, you have a future in whip making no doubt. Have you considered sending your whips to another maker to critique?

That wouldn't be a bad idea... I know Dusty Damrel lives in Texas, but I'm not sure he'd be the one to send it to as we use

completely different construction methods. I have talked to Paul Nolan extensively. Maybe I'll send him an email one of these days

asking for that.

I think what I'm going to do, is start selling on Ebay and what not, and keep every 5th whip I make, so that I can gauge my

improvement overtime, without having to keep everyone. Sound like a good idea?

[riku1914]

Now go and use it! Tell us how it's cracking!

I just used it. As expected, I didn't get anything serious done, as it's VERY stiff.

Man is it something to get used to compared to my other whip. This is very heavy compared to it, even though it's thinner by as

much as 5mm. That lead sure helps

My last whip, with how loose the plaiting was, actually broke in in about 40 cracks. This once doesn't show any signs of loosening

after about 50, as expected. I'm gonna go crack it some more

[riku1914]

So far I'm not liking the super stiff transition. Unless it breaks in nice I need to write in my journal, " less binding"

[Canuck Digger]

You don't want to crack it too many times if you plan on selling it at it won't be new anymore...

At 23mm it's only about 2 mm thinner than your average American style bullwhip so not too far off the mark there. Even 24 isn't bad.

[riku1914]

I'm not going to sell this one. I'm keeping my first roo whip. I'm going to sell the next one.

Question, about how much do you think I should try to get for an 8/12 plait 8' whip on ebay, based on the quality I have produced

on this whip? I'm sure the next will be better but I'm trying to make it easy.

[riku1914]

I wanted to take some pictures of the whip under natural light. It took more than twice the space as a normal picture ( this took

about 6.2mb, regular less than 3 ) so I have to use photobucket as imageshack has a maximum upload space of 5mb unless you

*upgrade*

Here they are, the whip has loosened up enough for it to not fall over doing this :



and just the handle, you can see it looks less black outside :



edit: I tried to resize in photobucket but it did it and didn't count it in the forum code, sry for bigger pics...

[darksideman13]

Lets see a video of you using it!

[kwad]

That's better! I can actually see the taper now.

It looks really good!
Way to go J-man!

[riku1914]

Lets see a video of you using it!

Camera loses battery too quick. Sorry I wish I could

[Marhala]

The taper in the whip shows up much better than the other picture. I'd say it has a very good taper, but as many have said: whenever you can, make a video! That gives us a clearer idea on how well it performs.

Aldo.

[riku1914]

The taper in the whip shows up much better than the other picture. I'd say it has a very good taper, but as many have said: whenever you can, make a video! That gives us a clearer idea on how well it performs.

Aldo.

All I can say is it cracks loud, and easy. Also it doesn't jerk my arm like the last one did. Is this because of the lead or something

else?

How much do you think I should try to get for an 8 foot 8/12 plait in roo on ebay? Based on the quality of this current whip...

Sorry I won't be able to put a video up. I tried yesterday, I think I got like... 5 seconds of video. I had barely done a single

cattlemans when the camera died. You can take a lot of pics with it though... confusing to me.

edit: I forgot to mention, there is only one area where a kink appeared at a strand drop. I don't know it did, but out of the 6

drops there's only 1 kink, yay me

[Canuck Digger]

Well as far as selling it, I think you should try to recover your material costs, meaning what it costs to make THAT whip, not what it costs to buy an entire side of leather... Anything more in my book is a bit much, given this is your second whip. BTW I thought you had decided to keep it?

Looking at it now, I would have to say your butt is a little on the large side for the rest of the whip, you know, proportions and such, but it isn't a very big thing either. Just nitpicking. here.

If it cracks easily and it doesn't jerk your arm forward when it cracks then you've done a good job. Yes the lead helps, but it also has to do with the overall weight of the whip, how far the weight is carried forward on the thong, the weight of the handle foundation ect etc.

[riku1914]

I am keep this whip. However I've already started the next The core is soaking in plaiting soap. I have tons of roo left over

from the last whip. I'll have enough for both plaited bellies and then some. All I'll have to do then it order some roo from murphy's

site then it'll be done.

Overall cost of leather would be around $150. So I'm thinking an 8 foot 8 plait in roo should be about 200, just to cover the cost of

leather and to give me a little bit to start getting even as far as money that went for tools.

[Canuck Digger]

200 sounds fair to me. Just don't include shipping or the costs of packaging in that. Those should be on top of the sale price. You might also consider including an extra fall and a few crackers with it...

If I may make a suggestion as to the usage of your leftover roo; It might be a good idea to keep it for the overlay and to use the outside of your next hide for the bellies, this way you are not using the stretchy leather from the new hide in the overlay and if you need a bit extra to finish cutting out the overlay, you will have prime leather from the center of a hide from which to cut it out of. Also the outside of a hide has wider curves which suit the cutting of the wider belly strands better than the narrower curves of the inside of a hide... But otherwise, yes by all means, use it on the next whip!

[tomek9210]

Which style are you going to do next? Maybe some bullwhip with longer handle? Or eventually the CS bullwhip ?

[riku1914]

Just a raiders next. I do want to do the CS sometime soon, but I'm not going to do it EXACTLY CS. I will likely make it slightly thicker

than your normal whip. But I'm going to use steel for the foundation and use lead in the heel knot.

[riku1914]

I'd just to say something.

I just got done cutting out the second 4 plait belly on the next whip. All I did was cut it by eye, both lengths and widths, though I

cut the starting width out after measuring, and I ended a strand when I thought it should end, except for one I cut shorter than

the rest since I don't want it running down most the length of the whip ( as a filler strand ).

After that all I did was bevel the undersides of each strand once. As I normally do, before soaking it in plaiting soap, I ran the

strands by each other to be sure that they were all close to uniform. To my surprise without ANY resizing other than the initial

paring, they were uniform up to the point where I started to taper them as filler strands.


You may not be able to tell from this pictures, but it's the only one I have of them right now :




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edit: I have to max out the DW strander for the intial strand width. I wish I had had a little more width but it turned out fine.

I may need to learn to free hand cut a little better just for that purpose....

[riku1914]

Just waiting for some money to order my roo hide from murphy's. This is what I have so far, I've been working on it a little bit

each day, and in some cases, not at all each day. Been busy lately.

Second bolster and binding complete :



I fixed the problem I had on my last whip, too stiff a transition. Even when the whip is broken in now, the transition shows no

sign of loosening up.

What I did with this whip, on the first plaited belly I did closed loop for about 2 inches, then criss cross for about 5 inches.

First bolster I did about an inch and a half of closed, then about 7 inches of criss cross. Second 4 plait belly I did about, 4 inches

of closed, then 7 inches of criss cross. Second bolster I did about 2 inches of closed, then a lot of criss cross, as you can

see. Now ALL I need to finish a roo hide from murphy's. I just though I'd show you guys how I'm doing with this one. I forgot to

mention I extended the taper of it out a little more. You can see it stays thicker further out.

Also the whip at this point is just a little thicker than the other one at the overlay. I'm happy about this, as I like the whip thicker

than the actual raiders whips were.

[riku1914]

Thought I'd show a pic after the whip was broken in, the transition is a little looser, but it doesn't bend if the weight of the whip

is held on it:



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The end is kinda dirty I clean it off after it gets dirty, this just looks dirty from lots and lots of use.

It can now properly be coiled, but it is still "stiff", it has life in it, as franco would say.

[riku1914]

In case anyone was wondering how the transition broke in...



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Way too stiff for a normal whip in my opinion. This is after a LOT of use, and I even started to bend it with my hands trying to

break it in. Didn't do a thing. Fortunately it was a good learning experience, I have since moved onto a different way of transition

reinforcement that yields more consistent results, and a normal transition. I learned that closed loop binding on the second bolster is

a no no because it adds too much stiffness.

I am going to make a couple more whips, then make two for myself. They are going to be 8 ' 12 plait black american styled whips.

8" handle, 6x7 2 pass heel, and one of them will have a 6x7 2 pass transition, the other a 6x7 pineapple. The handle will be

diamonds all the way through, then after the handle, for 8+ inches, it will be a 6 seam pattern ( u2 o2 u2 or o2 u2 o2 ) then it

will transition to the 4 seam herringbone. I'm doing this because I've ordered a 16 plait black american styled whip from midwest,

wait time 32-38 weeks, that has similar things ( diamond - 8 seam - herringbone ) and I am trying to decide if I want the

6x7 2 pass or pineapple for the transition.

Another difference, is the first of the two will be 100% kangaroo, core , plaited bellies, bolsters. While the other will have a kip

core and bolsters, while everything else plaited will be kangaroo, which is what I normally do. I'm wanting to see how two

similar whips, one with roo bolsters the other kip, age with time.

[Canuck Digger]

Riku,
your whip is still very young, it will relax some more in time, there is no need to force it. Just use it.

At equal thickness I think in the short term you may find that a whip with kangaroo bolsters will relax faster because kip has a slightly harder top layer on the grain side than kangaroo, in fact I've even gotten paper cuts from greasing up skived kip strands! But I should think that in time, as in a long time, both will more or less even out; it will just take kip a bit longer to relax fully. If you wanted to use cowhide because of its length (it IS easier to cut out bolsters from a long side like kip or cow than from a triangular kangaroo hide), but didn't want the same stiffness as kip, you could always use chrome tanned cowhide; it's very fibrous and soft and will fill in the gaps in between strands very easily, but it will not give you anything on the tone side. Meaning it will probably make for a relaxed whip much much faster.

My two cents...


Franco

[riku1914]

Riku,
your whip is still very young, it will relax some more in time, there is no need to force it. Just use it.

At equal thickness I think in the short term you may find that a whip with kangaroo bolsters will relax faster because kip has a slightly harder top layer on the grain side than kangaroo, in fact I've even gotten paper cuts from greasing up skived kip strands! But I should think that in time, as in a long time, both will more or less even out; it will just take kip a bit longer to relax fully. If you wanted to use cowhide because of its length (it IS easier to cut out bolsters from a long side like kip or cow than from a triangular kangaroo hide), but didn't want the same stiffness as kip, you could always use chrome tanned cowhide; it's very fibrous and soft and will fill in the gaps in between strands very easily, but it will not give you anything on the tone side. Meaning it will probably make for a relaxed whip much much faster.

My two cents...


Franco

I'm just curious, and would like to see this for myself. I'm not saying I disagree with what you say, I just want to see first hand.


As for the whip, I used it every day for 15+ minutes for two months. Sometimes several times a day, for that long or longer.

I actually got in a good habit of regular cracking, then it started to rain again.... and it broke me of the habit. Haven't cracked

in two weeks probably.

I think not only should I not have bound the second bolster, but I was binding too tight. Believe it or not, I broke the sinew twice

when I was doing that layer of binding from pulling too hard. I thought the sinew was so strong it just wouldn't be reasonable

to think it would break when binding... I was wrong.

Either way, I look forward to making my whips, and you guys will see pictures when they're done. I don't think I'm going to make

them as a matched pair ( I don't have a bench splitter so the bolsters won't be even, though I do plan on having a DW by then )

so I know the experiement won't be the most accurate, but it'll at least give me another learning experience.