My First Kangaroo bullwhip -Build Log - Mod Approved - PICS

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:41 pm

Marhala wrote:The pics clearly show you've improved a lot, Riku. I'm glad things are coming along much better.

Besides, kangaroo is such a particular material. You just can't imagine how it is and the characteristics which make it so good for plaiting.

ATB,

Aldo.

Thanks, I really am enjoying using roo, cutting roo, plaiting roo

It's really easy to do the beveling also, easier than cow for me.

Marhala · Post by **Marhala** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:40 am

It seems a bit ironical that things are easier with a more expensive material, leading to better quality and finish. Using cow, which is cheaper, things get more difficult at times, and may lead to more waste. Cow is better suited for coarse work (although there may be exceptions).

Aldo.

AZ Pete · Post by **AZ Pete** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:18 pm

Canuck Digger wrote:
louiefoxx wrote:I do occasionally sell lead strips if I have a bunch around. However you can get a square foot of sheet lead pretty cheap here: http://amzn.to/qIhIk9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and it's probably about what I'd charge you for a strip!

Also I just put up a picture of the cross section of a bullwhip on my blog at: http://bullwhips.org

This bullwhip was pared opposite corners. It was a finished bullwhip from many years ago at got damaged shortly after making it. So i cut out a piece of it to look at the inside! It's a rare peek into the inside of a bullwhip!

Louie
Hey Louie,
I've always worked with lead-based tape but those weren't pure lead, how long of a strip of 1" lead would you put on an 8' Indy (Morgan style)? The stuff I use is not only lighter than pure lead, but very thin as well, so my base of comparison is very different...

Thanks,

Franco

Franco - If you don't mind me asking, do you use the 3cm brand lead foil tape?

Also - Has anyone tried the lead tape they sell for tennis rackets? Just curious if that would work as well. Looks like it might be a good option.

Thanks,

Pete

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 1:56 pm

Yes it is from 3M and I'm sure the ones for tennis would work fine but the width might be too thin and you would need to put many side by side and this would reduce the solidity of the butt because in time they might slip around a bit... Better to simply use something that is one inch wide and be done with it.

AZ Pete · Post by **AZ Pete** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:19 pm

Canuck Digger wrote:Yes it is from 3M and I'm sure the ones for tennis would work fine but the width might be too thin and you would need to put many side by side and this would reduce the solidity of the butt because in time they might slip around a bit... Better to simply use something that is one inch wide and be done with it.

Yes, I can see your point. I did find a 1" thick lead tape on Amazon for golf clubs as well. I might try that. I can't find the 3cm lead foil anywhere (tried their online store but couldn't order that material).

Thanks again,

Pete

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:46 pm

Try Ebay...

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:51 pm

Lead came in, so I decided to plait some when I got home.

First of all, here's the lead. Tomek mentioned I should do about 44 cm of lead, I did about 52 cm just to add a little extra weight.

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And the handle, strands are by no means perfect but a million times better than my last whip. In the pic it looks like the strands are

VERY different in color, I can assure you that the camera is GREATLY exaggerating reality, you can hardly tell actually:

ok nvm, it's not wanting to upload this pic for some reason...

Here's how far I got, about 2 or so ft. in:

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edit: I forgot to mention, seams are very straight

edit 2 : I think I got the other pic to work :

I had a question, what sequence do YOU guys use to transfer from 12 plait diamond to 12 plait 4 seam?

I do the following :

u1 o1 u1 o3
u1 o1 u1 o3

u1 o1 u1 o3
u1 o1 u1 o3

You guys?

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:57 pm

Looking good!!!

Ya I think that's it but my brain is too fried to be able to answer for sure.

Franco

classicbullwhips · Post by **classicbullwhips** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:08 am

Same transition sequence I uses looks like you are on the right track.

Keep Cracking,
James

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:36 am

From those pictures, that's looking great thus far. I can't wait to see the final product.

I know you can't rush but...hurry it up!

Marhala · Post by **Marhala** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:26 am

riku1914 wrote:I had a question, what sequence do YOU guys use to transfer from 12 plait diamond to 12 plait 4 seam?

I do the following :

u1 o1 u1 o3
u1 o1 u1 o3

u1 o1 u1 o3
u1 o1 u1 o3

You guys?

On my most recent bullwhip, I did a slightly different sequence, which I like better aesthetically speaking (even though it will later be covered by a knot).

u1 o1 u1 o3
u1 o1 u1 o3
u1 o1 u1 o3

u1 o1 u1 o3
u1 o1 u1 o3
u1 o1 u1 o3

Aldo.

PS Wow! That's a lot of lead. I haven't gotten to buy lead sheet, and only get lead pipes, cut along the length and then flattened and cut to size.

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:41 pm

That look way better than your previous whip! Great progress, Riku.

I'm waiting for video review

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:39 pm

tomek9210 wrote:That look way better than your previous whip! Great progress, Riku.

I'm waiting for video review

Wish I could, my camera is really crappy, can take maybe 10 seconds of video before batteries die. It takes good video though,

720p @ 30 fps, just the time thing

I was plaiting tonight, I got to about to 5.5 ft. mark, and decided to stop. Seams are very straight, there was a little twist in

them, at one point, but I believe I fixed it as best I could. I'll put some pics up when I can, likely tomorrow morning.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:07 am

Well I was going to take some pics but the camera died and I don't feel like going to get any batteries. I'll get some pics to you

guys later today though. Maybe after I finish plaiting it

Marhala · Post by **Marhala** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:10 am

Will be waiting for them.

Have a great weekend!

Aldo.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:07 pm

You to aldo!

Here's the whip at the 7 ft. mark, it is down to 6 plait, with 3 core strands, but the 3rd one was just about to be done with :

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Completed overlay, 8 ft. lone, w/ 30 " fall. All these pictures are before rolling, keep in mind.

While I'm on the subject, any advice on rolling the last two feet or so of the whip, I can never get it to spin like I can the rest,

even when trying to twist it with my fingers. What should I do???

Anyway here's the completed overlay:

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Oh also, the thong starts and 23.5 mm thick, and it ends at about 6.5mm thick.

Here's the fall hitch :

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This picture I took so I could compare this area before and after rolling, I haven't taken the after

picture yet but I will get it up shortly :

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Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 2:23 pm

What I find helps for rolling the point of the whip is a few things used together; get fresh craft paper on both the rolling board and the rolling block, to absorb the oils. start rolling where the thong is fairly round and go slowly and slowly induce a roll slowly and don't put too much pressure at first.

It looks pretty good though, congrats!

Franco

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:32 pm

Ok some more pics

Here's that area I mentioned after I rolled it, as you can see it is much smoother. We knew this would happen but it's cool to

compare it to see how much a difference it actually makes :

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More coming in just a minute!

I forgot to take a picture of just the knot foundation, so I took one when I had just started weaving it so you can still see it:

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And the completed heel knot, with foundation for transition :

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And completed transition knot:

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Plus a little more :

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You have no idea how tempting it was to go out and test it, but I'm waiting to use it until after I get my

shellac in, and give it a few coats. Currently my shellac is in California, it's state of origin, and I ordered it Tuesday

I ordered my lead at the same time, used the exact same shipping method and the lead came in 2 days

They were kind of slow getting to usps.

Oh and a EDIT:

The knot color is original leather color, the plaiting soap made the leather ALMOST black, you can barely tell it's brown

If I had known this I would have gotten all whiskey leather, as the whiskey with plaiting soap made almost exactly the color the

brown is when lacking plaiting soap.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:54 pm

I forgot to do a pic of the transition stiffness, until it breaks in some, it may very well be jacka like

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kwad · Post by **kwad** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:01 pm

Very well done! You've come quite a ways with just your second whip.
Now, go make more!!!

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:06 pm

kwad wrote:

Very well done! You've come quite a ways with just your second whip.
Now, go make more!!!

Thanks!
I believe that is what you said pertaining to my first one, " Now, go make more !!!

"

I still haven't "finished" this one. I told myself what I first started planning that I would crack it until EVERYTHING was done,

shellac included. On my first whip I didn't crack it until all the knots and stuff were done, but I had never planned on putting

shellac on it. This one I AM going to put 3 or 4 coats on, and I'm NOT going to crack it until I have done so

edit: yeah look:

kwad wrote:Looks great man!

Now, GO MAKE MORE!!!!

How much leather did it take to make and what weight did you use?
I'm trying to talk myself into making my first leather whip. I have a Tandy right down the street and need to know how much skin I need.

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:37 pm

riku1914 wrote:
kwad wrote:

Very well done! You've come quite a ways with just your second whip.
Now, go make more!!!
Thanks!
I believe that is what you said pertaining to my first one, " Now, go make more !!! "

Yep, and look what happened. You made another one!
I figured, since it worked the first time........

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:32 pm

kwad wrote:
riku1914 wrote:
kwad wrote:

Very well done! You've come quite a ways with just your second whip.
Now, go make more!!!
Thanks!
I believe that is what you said pertaining to my first one, " Now, go make more !!! "

Yep, and look what happened. You made another one!
I figured, since it worked the first time........

my plan: buy some of the 3-4 oz cowhide that's on sale @ tandy for 2.99 a sq. ft. this month for bolster hide ( have no bolster

hide left )

Then I'm going to buy some roo from Mike Murphy's site, hopefully he'll have one about 8 sq. ft. , then I'll use some of what I

got and some of that, then make a whip and sell it on ebay, just to fund more hides and my new hobby/obsession

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:15 am

wow that progress is a quantum leap forward, congratulations!

2 or 3 coats should be enough on the thong as long as they are THIN coats. You can put one more on the handle and butt.

Midwest has nice roo and it is closer to you...
Keep going,

Franco

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:31 am

I love the buttknot shape! And I dig those wide strands, color is nice too!
Is it heavy? How much does it weigh? Where is the balance point?

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:14 am

Canuck Digger wrote:wow that progress is a quantum leap forward, congratulations!

2 or 3 coats should be enough on the thong as long as they are THIN coats. You can put one more on the handle and butt.

Midwest has nice roo and it is closer to you...
Keep going,

Franco

Midwest is a lot more expensive, and to ship 2 roo hides from murphy's it'd charge me only $20.

Tomek, I haven't weighed it yet, it does have a bit more weight to it than my other whip though, thanks lead

Balance point is about 1.5 " past the transition. I balanced it according to what louie said

rawvoodoo · Post by **rawvoodoo** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:37 pm

Very good looking whip there Riku1914. It seems to me you picked this right up and started running with it. Keep up the good work. I'll be interested to see what you produce as time goes on.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:35 pm

Thanks Rawvoodoo

So I just got a half a pound of "super blonde dewaxed shellac"

How should I go about preparing it, the instructions that come with it are confusing...

also, I was reading some info from the awpa, what is the point of rolling it in between each layer of shellac?

Also, should I apply a light coat of dressing between each layer, AND ALSO

what should I use as a pad? I think you mentioned a "clean" sock who's lost it's twin, cannuck, is there anything else you think I

should use over this, or would the sock be fine?

and another edit:

I just did some math, I could get a roo hide ( all hypothetical, I don't mean the sizes seriously ) that is 10.7639 sq. ft. ( 1 square

meter ) from murphy's, shippping included, for the same price I'd get an 8 sq. ft. hide from midwest, shipping not included.

Due to these number's I'll buy from murphy's

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:51 pm

riku1914 wrote:
Canuck Digger wrote:wow that progress is a quantum leap forward, congratulations!

2 or 3 coats should be enough on the thong as long as they are THIN coats. You can put one more on the handle and butt.

Midwest has nice roo and it is closer to you...
Keep going,

Franco
Midwest is a lot more expensive, and to ship 2 roo hides from murphy's it'd charge me only $20.

Tomek, I haven't weighed it yet, it does have a bit more weight to it than my other whip though, thanks lead

Balance point is about 1.5 " past the transition. I balanced it according to what louie said

Oh about the balance point, I wasn't able to get the whip high enough so that the fall and cracker were being part of the

weight, so the fall hitch is hanging about 6 inches off the ground. The balance point seems good to me. Does it sound about

right?

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:57 pm

you tell us- go and crack it!

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:01 am

Canuck Digger wrote:you tell us- go and crack it!

I don't want to crack it until I have shellaced ( shellacked? ) it. Partly because we have little - no protection from grass right now

as we haven't had more than an inch of rain in more than a month, ( also the regular 105+ temps

) thus it would get dirty

easy, and I don't have the proper materials to clean the whip. Plus it's kind of an incentive to finish it. What is your thoughts on

the shellac questions I have up there?

Canuck Digger · Post by **Canuck Digger** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:35 am

I honestly don't know how much alcohol it would take for a pound of shellac.

I made my batch a while ago and I haven't made a whip in over a year because of a back injury so I still have my old batch. I think it was about 300 grams or so for a liter and a half of alcohol, maybe a bit more.

Talk to the company you bought it from and ask them, they may not know what the cut is for whips but they can help I'm sure.

jeanfifi · Post by **jeanfifi** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:59 am

really good job for a first go!!!!!

congrats

JP

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:59 am

jeanfifi wrote:really good job for a first go!!!!!

congrats

JP

First @ roo, second @ leather, THANKS

Marhala · Post by **Marhala** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:32 am

Hey Riku, congratulations on your second whip. I'm glad the tools served you well and that most of the techniques gave the whip such a great appearance!

Keep up the good work.

Aldo.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:36 am

Thanks Aldo I am happy with it

I got about half of my shellac smashed up, and I put it in a glass container and did my best to pour an equal amount of the alcohol

in it, here's what I have so far.

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I'm going to cover it with a towel, as it says to keep it in a dark place if the container isn't dark, and let it sit f or a good while,

then I'll use something to separate the bad stuff at the bottom from the good stuff, then pour some more alcohol into what is

left. It says that the initial dissolving, when the pieces or smashed well, can take up to 24 hours, and a warm place and speed

it up. Well it's texas, it's summer, its hot. Even though it's inside I'm sure it'll go a little quicker than the 24. Update when I

get it ready, and shellacked.

Marhala · Post by **Marhala** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:49 am

Be sure to keep it closed. Alcohol evaporates very easily, altering the proportions of the solution and making it thick.

¡Peligro! Tóxico. I'm not as afraid of alcohol as of lead.

I wash my hands many times after having contact with it.

Aldo.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:03 pm

Marhala wrote:Be sure to keep it closed. Alcohol evaporates very easily, altering the proportions of the solution and making it thick.

¡Peligro! Tóxico. I'm not as afraid of alcohol as of lead. I wash my hands many times after having contact with it.

Aldo.

yep , I wash my hands thoroughly after using lead. I remember the first time I shot loaded a whip my hands were gray, even after

washing thoroughly I was afraid to eat anything for a while.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:11 pm

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Almost completely dissolved, after about 6 hours.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:32 pm

I forgot to ask,

how does the taper on it look? I'll take some pics when I've used it and it's loosened some, ( I find it easier to judge taper after

it's broken in ) but from what you have now, how's it look, anything major I should change? Or little for that matter.

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:38 pm

Show us the pic of rolled whip. It will be easier to tell than from that pic of unrolled whip.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:48 pm

This is the best I can do, still quite springy, it didn't even want to go this small but I used itself to keep it from unrolling anymore:

In other news, this morning I ordered a side of 3-4 oz cowhide for bolsters. Got it on sale @ tandy for 2.99 sq. ft. , and got the

smallest they had, which was 18.75 sq. ft. about 6 ft. long. No more splices unless I got above 8 ft. yay !

Marhala · Post by **Marhala** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:27 pm

I may be rushing on what I'm about to write, but I can't really do much with that pic (it's not the pic, but just working from an image). I think the base of the butt is heavy, but it tapers at a faster rate than regular Indy whips. That leaves the whip with a longer, thinner point, with a slower taper. I never really care about taper, unless the whip is very bumpy or has some fast drops in its diameters. And a longer, thinner point isn't necessarily bad. I tend to make bullwhips with longer, thinner points than Indy whips, but they still seem to carry the weight very well towards the point. I think the best way to evaluate taper is how easily the whip cracks when doing flicks.

Just a thought.

Aldo.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:49 pm

So from what you can see, I need to carry the thong out a little further, If others agree, I can just cut the filler strands from

my first belly a little longer. I believe I cut one at about 4 ", another about 8" and the others I don't remember. I have it written

down, but that would fix it I suppose.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:21 pm

I decided to shellac my first whip first, use it for a couple days to make sure it all stays on fine, here it is after 3 coats :

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I tried to take one of the whole whip, but the camera died

edit: I just went back and looked at the whip, the one I shellacked. On the thong, the shellac is, how can I put this, cracking.

It's not coming off, it's just developed lots of little cracks in it. It's not on the handle at all, just on the thong. I haven't cracked

it once since I shellacked it though...

Any idea what the problem could be?

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:35 am

wow! The color sure did change on that whip. It looks even better once you got the shellac on. Nice!

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:59 am

WhipDude wrote:wow! The color sure did change on that whip. It looks even better once you got the shellac on. Nice!

I guess I'll do a before and after pic here :

Brand new :

Aged some, not as much as it is now :

Shellac :

I got super blonde shellac so that it wouldn't tint the leather, and it really didn't change the color at all, just made it shiny like

it's suppose to

So, any idea on why the shellac is cracking, even though I haven't even cracked the whip yet? It's only on the thong also,

which is weird, and it's not even on all the thong.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:30 am

I just took that whip out for a very thorough cracking session. The shellac didn't come off any more than it had before I cracked it.

I'm thinking it's one of two things, one I put it on too heavy in these areas, or two the shellac is too thick. I'm hoping it's that I

put it too heavy since I ran out of denatured alcohol, but then again it being too thick would be easier to remedy...

Any advice?

Marhala · Post by **Marhala** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:26 am

Riku, did you dilute the shellac solution on the glass container with an equal part of alcohol? One other thing. Perhaps you should run the brush along the thong as much as you can, in order to avoid getting some areas "overshellacked".

Aldo.

riku1914 · Post by **riku1914** » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:59 am

Marhala wrote:Riku, did you dilute the shellac solution on the glass container with an equal part of alcohol? One other thing. Perhaps you should run the brush along the thong as much as you can, in order to avoid getting some areas "overshellacked".

Aldo.

I'm using a sock that had lost it's partner, cannuck suggested it

I did dilute it after it had dissolved the shellac completely.