My First Kangaroo bullwhip -Build Log - Mod Approved - PICS

[riku1914]

Well it just occured to me, I've been considering something, let me know what you guys think about it:

The whole reason I decided to make a jacka style in the first place was because tandy didn't carry natural tan roo. But, I have that

nice rich brown hide, so why not just make a last crusade style? What do you guys think about this?

[riku1914]

I got in the mood to do something whip making related today...




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3 whitehide falls, 33 " long.

25 or so poly crackers

[Canuck Digger]

Way to go; that's the way to do it!

Franco

[riku1914]

I made most of the crackers the a similar length, but I put a couple of outliars in it just to test some longer/ shorter ones when

I get to them. I end up changing them out at least every other day, sometimes everyday

I found that when I'm beveling falls, i.e. thicker stuff, I don't like using a protective piece of leather on my fingers, it got in the

way, plus the way I do it the blade isn't in a position where it could cut my finger anyway. On thinner stuff however, I find it

easier with a protective piece.

[riku1914]

Just ordered the DW strander, pics when I get it

[tomek9210]

Well it just occured to me, I've been considering something, let me know what you guys think about it:

The whole reason I decided to make a jacka style in the first place was because tandy didn't carry natural tan roo. But, I have that

nice rich brown hide, so why not just make a last crusade style? What do you guys think about this?

It all depends on your preference. I like the idea of making Jacka style, but with spike and lead in the butt. However, if you like crusade style more, then plait crusade style

[riku1914]

Well it just occured to me, I've been considering something, let me know what you guys think about it:

The whole reason I decided to make a jacka style in the first place was because tandy didn't carry natural tan roo. But, I have that

nice rich brown hide, so why not just make a last crusade style? What do you guys think about this?

It all depends on your preference. I like the idea of making Jacka style, but with spike and lead in the butt. However, if you like crusade style more, then plait crusade style

The whole reason I'm even considering just doing an indy style rather than the jacka that I had been planning was because

when I first started this thread, many suggested that I not jump to another whip style, and just do what I've been doing, so...

[bernie47]

Ok thanks louie, I'll get one of those!

The steel I have is about .5mm thick, still too "springy" for steel?

edit: how about the weight? About how much should I use for your average 8ft whip?

A question riku, why have you used that particular photo?

[riku1914]

Ok thanks louie, I'll get one of those!

The steel I have is about .5mm thick, still too "springy" for steel?

edit: how about the weight? About how much should I use for your average 8ft whip?

A question riku, why have you used that particular photo?

Louie showed a picture of a the inside of a bullwhip, I knew of that one , I know it's not in the middle of the whip, but it does

show the inside, sorry I probably should have asked you before using your pic

[bernie47]

Probably should have. I don't mind anyone using photos off my site but asking first would be courteous and acknowledgement as to where the photo came from would be nice as well.

[riku1914]

Alright my strander got shipped out Tuesday, and it's here on Thursday.

It comes with ( SPOILER ALERT IF ANYONE WHO'S GOING TO GET ONE DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT COMES WITH )

3 scalpel blades, the strander, ( ) setup and use instructions, very detailed, and a a pretty big how to on how to make a

stockwhip.

PICS:



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After testing it out on some scrap leather, it feels kinda awkward, the little pusher thing kinda far away from where your hand

goes, but I'm sure I'll get used to it after I use it some more.

[riku1914]

Ok so I was reading some of the info in Dene's how to make a stockwhip thing included with the DW strander. I was on a part

about a 4 bight 5 part 3 pass turk's head, and noticed something quite interesting. I am wanting to know if this is standard

procedure, something I should do, of it it's just one of doing it, and in this case, the way Dene like's to do it.


What is told, is you do the first 4 bights of it like normal, but , you leave enough lace at the starting part, to wrap it around

"backwards" one pass, then you go around the other way with the rest of the lace. It's kind of difficult to explain. What I have

done, is just started it , and gone around three times, with the lace going the same way each time, which is the "standard"

procedure for these knots?

[AZ Pete]

Wow...that thing looks like a beast!! Curious how well it tapers. Keep us posted!

Pete

[riku1914]

Wow...that thing looks like a beast!! Curious how well it tapers. Keep us posted!

Pete

IT tapers perfectly, Paul Nolan uses one, so it obviously works fine. I did a test cut from about 7.5mm-5mm and it looked so neat,

even AFTER stretch and before beveling/ resizing. The whole reason for this was likely due to the strand was very even on it's

stretch, but also before it looked very nice. It feels kinda funny at first, but Paul Nolan told me that if he remembers right, when he

got it, it felt kind of funny the first couple days, but after that it gets natural feeling, so I hope it comes that quickly to me

[tomek9210]

So now the work can start . Have you already decided what style are you going to make?

[AZ Pete]

Forgive the novice question...but what is the process with this strander?

Rough cut the strands.
Stretch.
Resize.
Taper.
Bevel.
Split.

Just trying to figure out the overall process...

Thanks,

Pete

[riku1914]

Forgive the novice question...but what is the process with this strander?

Rough cut the strands.
Stretch.
Resize.
Taper.
Bevel.
Split.

Just trying to figure out the overall process...

Thanks,

Pete

I cut the strands with my DW strander, and roughly taper them on the fly, like it's made to do. Next I stretch it, then I bevel

them, when I bevel, i resize / give them the final taper all at once, I couldn't do it good on my first whip but this one is going

well in that regard. Next I split them, then soak them in plaiting soap.

Here's what I did last night and in the last 30 minutes:


1st. 4 plait belly cut out, prepared and soaking in plaiting soap:


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Belly attached, just about to be plaited :



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I forgot to take a pic after braiding and binding the first belly, so the next is the first bolster after

binding



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Cutting out my second 4 plait belly:



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Strands after stretching, before resizing, beveling and splitting :



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I cut my second belly strands 6-7 ft. long, one of them was 8 because I was planning on having two strands go

7+ ft. the total length of the whip ( coming out of second bolster ).

The strands stretched 10ft. - 11ft. long, A learning process to cut them about 5 ft. long next time ( maybe a little more to leave

room for error ) but they are obviously much longer than a 4 ft. belly w/ some filler strands needs.


I just wanted to say two things, I LOVE using the DW strander, it's so easy to use, I got used to it fairly quick, I am tapering

them by eye, estimating how much shorter the next strand is from the strand I just cut, and tapering it a little less than that, and

my strands are coming out VERY uniform, with little resizing needed.

Also, plaiting soap is AWESOME. The soap soaks in completely in 30 minutes or less, and makes the strands much strong than

dressing did. Also using dressing as lubrication, dressing took much longer to soak in. I just really love using the plaiting soap.

Oh also it's easier to spread on the strands than dressing was. I did my entire 4 plait belly in about 2 minutes, dressing took

about 10 last time since it's much thicker.

[tomek9210]

Have you put the bolster on the whole handle? There is quite a difference in thickness in the handle and body now, but I think next layers will compress that.
So Indy III or Indy IV ?

[Canuck Digger]

SEE! Told you plaiting soap was the thing!!! Now you get it.

Be careful about tight corners; in the second to last picture it seemed the last strand was cut around a fairly tight curve, given the width of it. I can't tell for sure because pics can be misleading sometimes, but those strand look like they're cut pretty close to the final width and with little leeway to re-size, so you should be careful to not make your curves too tight. Again, hard to tell for sure but that before last pic seemed to be too tight a corner for the width of the strand.

How did it stretch out? Did it straighten or break?


Franco

[riku1914]

SEE! Told you plaiting soap was the thing!!! Now you get it.

Be careful about tight corners; in the second to last picture it seemed the last strand was cut around a fairly tight curve, given the width of it. I can't tell for sure because pics can be misleading sometimes, but those strand look like they're cut pretty close to the final width and with little leeway to re-size, so you should be careful to not make your curves too tight. Again, hard to tell for sure but that before last pic seemed to be too tight a corner for the width of the strand.

How did it stretch out? Did it straighten or break?


Franco

They straightened out perfectly. I estimated I needed the final starting width to be about 14mm ( if I remember right ) and I think

I cut 4mm wider, it turned out PERFECTLY.

here's a pic about a foot into the plaiting I measured the width of the strands right after taking the picture, they were all withing

.5mm of each other. I was so proud :



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and then with the entire thing ( plaited about 50" ). You can't tell in this picture, but the taper is so perfect it shocked me. It

looks like a little whip, and I'm sure if I tied a fall on and a cracker that it in fact would crack. I plaited SO tight, and I just don't

think I'll ever use cow again.



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Here's a question, on my last whip ( calf , 2 oz) by the time I had the first bolster tied on, the same way I did everything on

this whip, the handle and thong was evened out, as you can see, on this whip, it was not the case, the second 4 plait belly

actually evened it out, the handle and start of thong is now 15mm. I was hoping for more like 18mm at this point, so the handle

could be about 20-21mm thick, and the thong be about the 23-24 mark. Now I'll have to settle for a 18mm handle, and a

21mm thong, which is quite thin.

What I did, in case you don't remember, is I did the core, then I tied my first 4 plait bellies yoke on the handle, then started the

plaiting right off the handle, then I tied the first bolster onto the end of the handle. According to my first whip, and what Paul

showed on how it's made AND a picture he send me, it should have been evened out by the first bolster, any idea why it didn't???

edit: Cannuck, the strands in the picture where I'm cutting them out were actually much wider than they appear, I believe

I started them @ about 18mm wide.

Also on my first whip, I just cut my bolsters out of the side of my hide, thus they spiraled around the bellies, on this whip I'm

cutting them out straight, and the seams on them are staying straight also. I really am enjoying make a whip that is going well.

[riku1914]

Have you put the bolster on the whole handle? There is quite a difference in thickness in the handle and body now, but I think next layers will compress that.
So Indy III or Indy IV ?

I decided to just go ahead and do a raiders style. I know I keep changing

oh one thing I wanted to mention, it seems a lot of the problems I had with my first whip have been fixed by one of two things,

1, tighter plaiting. On my first whip, I assume this happened because fillers were not compressed well, parts of the whip, even after

intense rolling, were more oval than circle, every part of this whip so far has been a perfect circle.

2, uniform strands. This is the only guess I have, on my first leather whip, the strands were pretty bad, and my seams twisted badly,

on this whip, my strands were within .5mm of each other the whole way down, and my seams were dead straight, I didn't have to

go back and fix ANY twisted plaiting.

While my first whip was somewhat discouraging, for the most part, this one has been nothing but encouraging.

I really want to thank Bullwhipborton for allowing me to put this thread up, I enjoy doing this, and it's REALLY helping me with

making the whip, I'm getting help from a lot of people

edit: I forgot one other thing, I mentioned that the thong base was 15mm at this point, it tapers down VERY nicely to 7mm wide.

I cut the filler strands from the first belly just out by eye, hoping that what I did would work, it works out GREAT.

I really can hardly believe how good the taper of this belly turned out. I was SO happy what I got a couple feet into it and

could start to see how good it was going.

[Canuck Digger]

Congratulations! It looks really nice!

Well the first bolster can sometimes get you close to evening things out, but it isn't uncommon for things to only even out by the second belly and sometimes even only by the second bolster, all depending. The way you tie your bindings on has an effect as well as where you begin and end them. EVERYTHING plays a roll in whipmaking - NOTHING goes on without effecting the whip in SOME way. If you skive the base of the first bolster it may help to fit it to the base of the handle seamlessly, but that might take a bit of doing. No reason not to do it, just saying skiving that part is all about finesse and subtlety.

Very happy to hear things are working out well. There is always a progression from one whip to another and at first the improvements seem very big, and then you might hit a plateau where things don't seem like they are changing or improving much but they are. In a year or two, go back and have a look at your first whips and you will be amazed at how much you have learned.

Keep at it!


Franco

[tomek9210]

Have you got the lead already?

I always admire whipmakers plaiting in leather, because this strand preparation is really hard thing to do. First, planning how to cut them, then stretching, skiving, TAPERING (this seems to be the toughest part of it for me). Nylon is for lazy guys

And you Riku, have been doing quite well! I can't wait to see it plaited and ready to crack

[riku1914]

Have you got the lead already?

I always admire whipmakers plaiting in leather, because this strand preparation is really hard thing to do. First, planning how to cut them, then stretching, skiving, TAPERING (this seems to be the toughest part of it for me). Nylon is for lazy guys

And you Riku, have been doing quite well! I can't wait to see it plaited and ready to crack

I actually have the shopping cart up for a 12"x36" piece of lead that's 1/32" thick. Yeah strand prep is tough, but now that I have

the strander, it seems almost effortless, which it isn't, but compared to how it was with my terrible freehand cutting, I actually

enjoy that part now

I seem to be able to get a decent taper with leather, but not with nylon, they're just different.

[riku1914]

Ok just ordered a 12x36" sheet of lead, 1/32" thick.

Also I ordered 1/2 lb. of THIS

Everything should be here from the 25th - 30th, however I think the lead will come a little earlier, within the next 3 days. I can't

plait the overlay without any lead, but I'll at least cut the bolster, do the binding, and cut the overlay.

I have a question, what should the handle - thong thickness be on a standard indy whip? I mean at the thickest point of the thong.

My current calculations say that adding the bolster, ( splitting the handle part down slightly ) and doing the overlay, the handle

will be : 19.1mm and the thong will be 19.6mm thick, compared to my other whip, this is tiny. The thong on my other whip is

25mm, and the thought of the thong being 20 on this one is kind of strange, is this normal, or did something go wrong? I don't

know how it could have gone wrong, I did two plaited bellies and two bolsters, both of 2-3 oz material...

edit: or I could cut the yoke out on the second 4 plait belly, and just put the bolster over everything without splitting it some,

the thong would be the same, but the handle would be even thinner...

[Canuck Digger]

You don't want to cut the yoke of the second belly-leave it alone.

Are you sure you calculated your layers right? Don't forget a plaited layer adds four layers of leather, while a bolster adds only two (top and bottom...).

But let me ask you did you plait the second belly over the handle or start the plaiting at the end of the handle?

[riku1914]

You don't want to cut the yoke of the second belly-leave it alone.

Are you sure you calculated your layers right? Don't forget a plaited layer adds four layers of leather, while a bolster adds only two (top and bottom...).

But let me ask you did you plait the second belly over the handle or start the plaiting at the end of the handle?

Second belly started at the end of the handle, I was hoping to do two things with this, one , even out the handle - thong, two,

add the bulge you see in indy whips. It didn't do the bulge, and it did even i out. Look at this picture from midwest whips:



Here he did this also, but with mine I kept the yoke on it, like you do on the first 4 plait belly.

Yes, I calculated so that a bolster adds 1.5-1.5mm ( .8x2 ) and a plaited belly adds about 3 mm ( rounding it out of course )

Should I just let it be thin or should I do something to make it thicker? It was going really well until I started to measure it and

realize that it was doing what it did. I should have seen it after I attached the first bolster, I guess I just had hoped the second

belly would fix everything.


On my second belly, it starts at the 8" mark, and the yoke is 8" long, and covers all the handle.

edit: I was thinking, I could add a bolster going about 3 ft. down the whip, then do the second bolster starting at the end of the

handle, going the whole 6 ft. If the dimensions I specified are too thin, this is an idea for you guys to consider.

[tomek9210]

What are you using for bolsters?

Raiders era whips were thinner than today's Morgans, Bernardo can confirm that, he makes his ultimate raiders thinner, so 20mm can be very good.

[riku1914]

What are you using for bolsters?

Raiders era whips were thinner than today's Morgans, Bernardo can confirm that, he makes his ultimate raiders thinner, so 20mm can be very good.

I am using some 2-3 oz calf, I haven't been splitting them since I am at the center of the hide, and the variation ( measured down

my last bolster with my caliper ) is less than .1 mm each. They are averaging .9mm-1mm thick.

ok so 19mm handle, 20-21mm thong is fine?

I think, unless someone says it's a bad idea, I'll add another bolster, I'll put it over the handle and thong, going about 3 ft. or

so down the thong, and splitting the last foot of it thin, and splitting it slightly thinner on the handle, then putting the second

bolster on the end of the handle to do the bulge. If you say I shouldn't do this, then I'll just put the second bolster on the end

of the handle.

I know now on my next whip I should make the core thicker. I'll probably do one of two things, I'll either 1, grind a rebate on

the end and put a core about 2 ft. long, then put the second core ( what would be the first if I hadn't done the rebate ) the

normal length, hopefully with this I could even it all out with the first 4 plait belly , or even with the first 4 plait and the first

bolster, then I can make the bulge with the second 4 plait belly. I think everything would work out better this way.

[tomek9210]

I think adding an extra bolster may be good. It will load down the thong a bit. I would do that. Don't forget to grease the bolsters well!

[riku1914]

I think adding an extra bolster may be good. It will load down the thong a bit. I would do that. Don't forget to grease the bolsters well!

I covered the bolster hide with two layers of plaiting soap, then when I'm doing the binding on the bolster, I put a light coat on

the inside of it, then just before I plait over it, I put a light coat on the underside and top side. I would think this would be

enough

Any other opinions on the bolsters? I thought it was a good idea, tomek did, third opinon/s?

Also, I currently don't have my scale, I may be able to find something else to weigh the lead, but I am unsure.

About how much lead @ 1/32" thick and say, 1.5" wide would make 100-150grams to balance the whip?

[Canuck Digger]

I can't say how much lead you should put cause i never use a scale I just measure the diameter and roll on 25-26mm of lead. Also I don't make mine 1.5" wide but 1", because at 1.5" it is hard to make the but very round and it becomes more elongated... Just look at pics and you'll see it is more like a square with rounded edges than a rectangle...

[tomek9210]

A bit of math:
We know that density of lead is 11.34 g/cm^3. So, 100g of lead is the weight of 8,81 cm^3. We want to have 1" strip of lead and it's 1/32" thick, so in cms it's 2,5cm and 0,8mm=0,08cm.
8,81 / (2,5 * 0,08) = 8,81 / 0,2 = 44,05
So you need 44 cm long strip to have the weight of 100g in the butt.

[riku1914]

Thanks, nice math

I was going to do the heel 1.5" long, you suggest 1", do you suggest I have it shaped much, or just a 1" long, however wide I want,

knot?

[Canuck Digger]

Again this is just how I do things, you are free to do YOUR whip however you see fit. I do make the lead 1" wide and I wrap it around the base of the handle until I get about 25mm (or 1") wide. This will look like a 1" X 1" cylinder, you then roll it smooth and maybe hammer in a few tacks to keep it from coming undone, but not too many because you will be adding more to anchor the keeper of the second belly (unless you put the lead over that) and the keeper of the overlay. If you are only tying on the overlay keeper then you can probably add a bit more lead if you want, but not much. If you put too much, your whip will be VERY heavy AND the butt knot will be very large and difficult to hold in your hand, unless you have huge hands. I find that with an inch of lead, I can make a butt that fits comfortably in my hand and there is enough there to balance most whips. Of course, the difference between you and I is that you will be using pure lead, whereas I have been using a lead alloy tape, which is a bit lighter (though not by much) than pure lead. You have to figure that there is going to be the keeper(s) and the woven turk's head knot as well as some thread/sinew to bind and further shape the butt foundation, so those all add girth to the finished butt. As far as shaping goes this is also a personal matter; you can shape it a bit (or a lot) with thread before you make the turk's head, and because this is lead and it is very soft, you can also gently hammer it into shape once the knot is tied on, so you have a few options. Just try to not make it overly large because if it feels too big in your hand you may end up not using it as much because the thing feels awkward.

My two cents,


Franco

[riku1914]

Again this is just how I do things, you are free to do YOUR whip however you see fit. I do make the lead 1" wide and I wrap it around the base of the handle until I get about 25mm (or 1") wide. This will look like a 1" X 1" cylinder, you then roll it smooth and maybe hammer in a few tacks to keep it from coming undone, but not too many because you will be adding more to anchor the keeper of the second belly (unless you put the lead over that) and the keeper of the overlay. If you are only tying on the overlay keeper then you can probably add a bit more lead if you want, but not much. If you put too much, your whip will be VERY heavy AND the butt knot will be very large and difficult to hold in your hand, unless you have huge hands. I find that with an inch of lead, I can make a butt that fits comfortably in my hand and there is enough there to balance most whips. Of course, the difference between you and I is that you will be using pure lead, whereas I have been using a lead alloy tape, which is a bit lighter (though not by much) than pure lead. You have to figure that there is going to be the keeper(s) and the woven turk's head knot as well as some thread/sinew to bind and further shape the butt foundation, so those all add girth to the finished butt. As far as shaping goes this is also a personal matter; you can shape it a bit (or a lot) with thread before you make the turk's head, and because this is lead and it is very soft, you can also gently hammer it into shape once the knot is tied on, so you have a few options. Just try to not make it overly large because if it feels too big in your hand you may end up not using it as much because the thing feels awkward.

My two cents,


Franco

Just thought I'd mention what the diameter on my current heel knot is, the widest area, just under the top, is 47mm, and it

fits in my hand comfortably. Is this big or small? Also I made it about 1.5-1.7" long, can't remember for sure.

[classicbullwhips]

Hey riku1914,

I would say Canuck Digger has it fairly right on about the amount/size of lead to use under the Turks knot (very close to the measurements I use). As for your worry about the final dimensions of the whip here is a link to some info that might help if you didn't know about already http://www.indygear.com/igRotLAbullwhip.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It gives dimensions off an actual Raiders whip (and yes they were fairly thin). I hope that helps.

Keep Crackin,
James

[Canuck Digger]

Thanks James,
I can only speak for how I do things and I try to make that clear whenever I answer a post, but it's nice to know my specs are in the same ballpark as others.
Cheers,


Franco

[riku1914]

Hey riku1914,

I would say Canuck Digger has it fairly right on about the amount/size of lead to use under the Turks knot (very close to the measurements I use). As for your worry about the final dimensions of the whip here is a link to some info that might help if you didn't know about already http://www.indygear.com/igRotLAbullwhip.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It gives dimensions off an actual Raiders whip (and yes they were fairly thin). I hope that helps.

Keep Crackin,
James

I've seen that before but didn't think to refer to it now

Thanks

edit: it looks in the pics like the thong is the same size as the handle, is this true?

[riku1914]

Got the 2nd and third bolster on, did the binding on the 3rd bolster, here's what the last layer looks like :



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I think I forgot to mention the binding scheme I'm trying for this whip. I wrote down some different binding lengths that made sense

for different whip lengths, and , this whip being an 8 ft., I'm trying the 8ft. one.

Here's what I wrote down,

8ft.:
1st 4 plait belly, 4 " closed loop, 4" of 1 pass criss cross ( this is all past the handle, and the criss cross length starts past the

closed loop length, so in the first one there is a total of 8" of binding past the end of the handle )

1st. bolster, 5" closed, 4" single pass criss cross.
2nd 4 plait belly, 6" closed, 4-5" single pass criss cross.
2nd bolster ( in this case 3rd ) 7" closed, 5-6" double pass TIGHT criss cross"

It looks like it is doing good, the transition is VERY stiff. I know it won't be truly raiders now, but I wanted a raiders look with a

really tight transition.


Here's the handle, you can see where the 3rd bolster goes over the second ( which started near the end of the handle )



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I left that inch and half or so at the top so when I put the lead on, it will anchor to the head of the nail, rather than it completely

depending on nails or staples.

Still waiting on lead and shellac to come in, and I still need to cut the last 3.5 ft. of the 3rd bolster out, then sew to pieces

together.

Updates when I get some

[riku1914]

Got the rest of my bolster prepared, I've decided that so far I like sewing my bolsters together rather than just splicing them in

like I did on my last whip, here's the first splice:



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Now the other side of it, as you can see it's very neat, and it is VERY sturdy, I honestly would be more worried about every bit of

the leather ripping than the sinew that I used to sew it ripping.

The other side :



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Now the second splice, about half as wide, so I only had 4 holes on each wide, again, it was very neat, and I pulled on each side

quite hard after finishing it, they didn't separate at all, and nothing split or anything :



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And now finally a shot down the entire thing, it is very neat and very straight, I was happy with how it came out.

I just measured it and the tip of the bolster ends EXACTLY at the 6 ft. mark, I hadn't planned to have it so precise but if it's

going to do something, it might as well do that.

Here's the entire thing:



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[Marhala]

Riku, I'm glad to see the whip is coming along very nice! At this stage it looks quite different (in a good way) than your previous one.

It is nice to see the various pieces which make the bolster sewn into place nicely. Did you roll them after sewing? That helps too.

About lead, Tomek wrote you need a 44cm strip to load the butt of the whip. In my previous bullwhip, I used lead twice as thick as the one you're using ~1.5mm and it was 1"x8" long. It balanced the whip nicely, so I think that amount of lead (perhaps even a bit less) will do for yours too.

Keep up the good work!



Aldo

[tomek9210]

Paul Stenhouse suggests using 15" of lead for an 8ft whip, but it all depends on particular whip and personal preference.
Best thing you can do to balance your whip is to lean your finished whip against the curve on the point, which you want to be the balance point of the whip and put the lead on the end of the handle until it's balanced.
Have you already cut the overlay?

[riku1914]

Paul Stenhouse suggests using 15" of lead for an 8ft whip, but it all depends on particular whip and personal preference.
Best thing you can do to balance your whip is to lean your finished whip against the curve on the point, which you want to be the balance point of the whip and put the lead on the end of the handle until it's balanced.
Have you already cut the overlay?

No I haven't cut it yet, I'll do it either tomorrow or Wednesday.

Riku, I'm glad to see the whip is coming along very nice! At this stage it looks quite different (in a good way) than your previous one.

It is nice to see the various pieces which make the bolster sewn into place nicely. Did you roll them after sewing? That helps too.

About lead, Tomek wrote you need a 44cm strip to load the butt of the whip. In my previous bullwhip, I used lead twice as thick as the one you're using ~1.5mm and it was 1"x8" long. It balanced the whip nicely, so I think that amount of lead (perhaps even a bit less) will do for yours too.

Keep up the good work!



Aldo

Thanks a lot, I am about to look over the pictures from my first whip and compare them to similar areas of this current one.

edit: WOW, look at this picture of the second belly strands on my first whip compared to my current one :



please excuse the time stamp, I don't bother resetting it each time the camera runs out of batteries, I'm going to go turn the

time stamp off RIGHT now.

[Canuck Digger]

Two things about bolster splices; first is that it doesn't need to be sewn because the plaiting will hold it in place, so I'm afraid you've worked a lot for something that could have been done more simply. Second, the angle should be longer. As it is in your pics, the angle is so close to being perpendicular that you sort of negate the whole point of making it as a tapering splice; the idea behind a tapered splice as opposed to a perpendicular one is so that the joint is not felt in how the whip bends. Try it next time with a longer splice.

Big difference between the first and present belly!


Franco

[riku1914]

Two things about bolster splices; first is that it doesn't need to be sewn because the plaiting will hold it in place, so I'm afraid you've worked a lot for something that could have been done more simply. Second, the angle should be longer. As it is in your pics, the angle is so close to being perpendicular that you sort of negate the whole point of making it as a tapering splice; the idea behind a tapered splice as opposed to a perpendicular one is so that the joint is not felt in how the whip bends. Try it next time with a longer splice.

Big difference between the first and present belly!


Franco

I'll do that

I like sewing it because I can do a couple things, one I don't have to worry about placing it, I didn't like it, it was tough and I

did it like 5 or 6 times on that last whip, two, I can grease the bottom of it all at once, three, I don't have to worry about

losing a piece , that may sound funny but I lost a piece of it on my last whip .

Also it didn't take any time at all the sew it, It probably took me 10 minutes to do it completely ( both splices ). I just poked holes

about 1/8" apart with the end of my fid, got some artificial sinew and split it down to about 1/2-1/3 it's original width, then

started the baseball stitch.

I may try the regular splice again in the future, but at least for now, sewing it is SO much easier for me. I sewed my first bolster's

splice in this whip, and it was so much easier.


"Big difference between the first and present belly!"'


I know right, I knew it was bad but nothing like it actually was! At the time I thought I was doing good for using leather at all.

One thing I noticed between this whip and the last, on the last one, I really rushed it, I didn't do things that I have on this one

that I could have easily done, that wouldn't have taken much time. I think one big thing that contributed to this was I started

working on the whip AFTER work, and I was really tired and when there was a corner to cut I just didn't care. I wanted it done.

On this one I've made sure that I work on it mornings, or at least when my mind is fresh, for instance I got home @ 4:00 the

other day rather than the usual 5:30 -6:30 and cut out my second belly. I've found I have more patience to do the little things,

like making sure every bit of a lace has been beveled. On my last whip if the knife missed 6 inches here or there I just let it do

what it did.

I'll probably cut the overlay ( or at least half of it ) tomorrow. I'll show it when I do. I want to have greased the overlay strands

twice by the time I start it. Overkill, maybe, but I REALLY don't like splicing, so I want to avoid it if at all possible.


edit: must say I'm still REALLY enjoying using roo. BTW Tandy has 3-4 oz cowhide sides on sale for 2.99 a sq. ft. After I finish

this whip I'll probably call around to the 3 we have around here to see which one has the smallest. They say they average

28 sq. ft. but 18-20 would be fine for me. I'm wanting the 3-4 oz stuff since my first bolster didn't come anywhere near evening

out the handle-thong thickness, and I had to do a third bolster, which I fear is going to create kinks in the whip. If nothing else

make the taper look odd.

[Canuck Digger]

As far as the difficulty in lining up the two pieces of the bolster goes, this is another reason why a long splice is a good idea; you can start the second piece of the bolster with a bit poking out of the plaiting and when you've done a few stitches, just gently pull on it (in the correct angle so it doesn't rid over the first piece but rather next to it), and it will just slide in. Easy peasy as Bernie would say. That's much faster than stitching the two pieces together not to mention there is no added ridges from the stitching...

You'll find that the first 15 or 20 whips you make will have a big improvement from one to the other, and in some cases, you may regress in one or two areas, because you got over-confident or because you tried something new that didn't quite work out... Whatever the case may be, keeping at it is the key to improving. Take pictures and keep a journal of detailed information about each whip, that way you can refer to it later on and know at a glance what worked and what didn't and why. Think of it as going to whipmaking school...

A good point to not work when distracted or tired is that you ARE working with razor-sharp knives and accidents often happen not because we don't know how to do something, but because we are not focused, so for now at least, leave it to when you are fresh.
Cheers,


Franco

[riku1914]

I cut out the first 6 strands of my overlay. I tapered the first 5 ft. of them ( hoping they'd stretch to taper to the 6-7 ft. mark )

then left them the same width the rest of the way. I cut them all 11-12 ft. long, knowing they'd stretch to well beyond this,

however I wanted to be sure that I had enough not just for the plaiting, but enough to grip and the end, and have more than

enough to tie a tight fall hitch.

Here they are before resizing, splitting and paring :



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

The hide they are sitting on is what is left of my 6.24 sq. ft. ( 58 dm ) hide after cutting the strands out of it.


I haven't taken a picture aftering resizing and paring and splitting yet, but at the start of the thong, the strands are all between

8 and 8.5mm wide, they taper down, at about the 7 ft. mark, to between 5 and 5.5mm. I'll start dropping strands at about the

3.5-4ft. thong length, not strand length.

I might cut the rest of the overlay out later, but for now I think I've done enough. I made sure to cut them slow, but I can now

pare very quickly. To pare both sides of all 6 laces, which are now approximately 14-15 ft. long, in about 10-15 minutes.

The lines are very straight, and my strands are for the most part very uniform. I'm happy with how they are doing so far, and

I'm about to give them their first coat of plaiting soap. ( waiting for the soap to soften up some, forgot to take it out of the

refrigerator )

edit: I decided to take a pic of them after resizing, the plaiting soap i still a bit cold to put on, here they are :



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[riku1914]

I decided to cut the other strands, I cut the outermost two ( outermost on hide and innermost on hide ) 8 ft. ( about )

the next two in sequence 10 ft., and the last two, the middle of the 6, 11 ft. long.

Here is the hide right after I trimmed it :



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here's the strands right after I finished cutting them out, Haven't resized or split or anything yet :



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Marhala]

The pics clearly show you've improved a lot, Riku. I'm glad things are coming along much better.

Besides, kangaroo is such a particular material. You just can't imagine how it is and the characteristics which make it so good for plaiting.

ATB,

Aldo.