Shocking... just shocking!

[fenris]

I was at the mall earlier and stumbled upon some official Indy fedoras... DP's to be exact; the crushable wool hats. This was the same shop who a few years ago sold it for only about $58... and I think even at that price, that was a little too much already.

Out of curiosity, I asked the girl how much the hat was. She told me to wait while she checked. She shocked me by saying it cost around $151.00!!!

They even had a Stetson cowboy hat that was wool and it sold for almost $200!

Talk about highway robbery...

I'm starting to wonder how much our customs tax really is...

[gwyddion]

Holy price hike Batman! Man, that's insane! No way I'd pay as much for a wool hat! Especially when you can get so much better quality for roughly the same price.

Regards, Geert

[fenris]

There's no way people here are gonna be hat wearers if the prices of hats over here are that high!

I saw a couple of Stetson, Scala and Dorfman hats there. The only fedoras there were the DP Indy hats, the rest were cowboy hats. If only they carried more fedoras it may help in coercing more people to buy and wear felt hats over here.

At first look, I thought the Stetson cowboy hat I saw was fur-felt as the finish looked very much like a fur-felt. I looked inside the hat and saw "100% Wool Felt" written on the sweatband. But boy, was that hat stiff!!! Feels like if someone whipped you with that brim, you'd get a welt.

[fifthchamber]

To be honest, here in Tokyo it's not far from that price....

There's a LOT of hats, nearly ALL of them wool felt...And even in the half-way decent shops, the hats are priced over 10,000 yen (about 100 dollars US) for a wool hat...Nothing special at all..And many very ugly indeed...

That said, I've seen Borsalino Japan, which sells hats at SUCH an insane price, paying 100 dollars for wool almost makes sense...Some of the higher end hats I've seen were selling for 200,000 yen (2000 dollars?), being beaver...And factory made...(And again, not especially beautiful)....The majority were priced at about 90,000 yen (about 900 dollars), which is still rather insane...

I dunno...I'd guessed that out here, there's a lot of people with not a lot of sense, and a lot of spare money..So they can sell rather ordinary hats for insane prices, and that it was a "Japan-thing"...But maybe it's an "asia" thing?

Baffling...

[Michaelson]

Kind of makes you scratch you head, especially after we were told back in 2006 felt was being grabbed and shipped by the boatload by the Chinese:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=15691" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The same has been said about leather.

One would think supply vs demand would push the price down, not up, wouldn't it, SPECIFICALLY when it comes to hat sales in Asia?

How are the prices for leather coats over there? Different topic, I know, but related.....

Regards! Michaelson

[Texan Scott]

Prices at the mall tend to be a little higher than the norm. I'd hate to have to pay rent for a shop in the mall, especially after a few successful years. But like any other 'physical location' type retailer, they have to deal with the issue of finite space/showroom. Typically, goods tend to follow a certain retail cycle. High price, price drop, periodic sale, maybe another price drop, then clearance. Consumers purchase goods based on these price points, with just a few purchases at the high end price, and maybe more as the price of the item is reduced, sort of follows a curve. Of course, if something like new basketball shoes which can be hot items are initially offered, then they can sell more of them at the introductory price, and usually sell out.

For most people outside this hobby, fedoras and more specifically Indy styled fedoras are novelty items, or something you might purchase on a whim. Seldom would someone today purpose to go to a retail store in order to buy a certain kind or style of fedora. As usual though, it is a supply-demand, price point tug of war between retailers and consumers. Add to it the potential global marketplace that the internet created, the idea that prices on the net can be much more reasonable, and you have a situation where the customer can be in control when he/she realizes that they actually have the power.

I'm often appalled at how expensive Nike shoes are in Brasil, as some models sell for $900R or more, usually American brands. Yet, I think it is about 'perception', as they tend to be very brand conscious, and put a very high value on certain makes, viewing them as being luxury items, prestigious. Though they usually gripe about the high prices, they will still make payments over the course of several months, for the coveted Nike shoes, and simply pay them out. However, if the customer ever realized that they were the ones with the power-purchasing power, and simply boycotted these types of brands until the retailers were forced to drop their prices to a more reasonable level, then the market would deflate to a more reasonable price point for everyone.

There is a bit of a difference between Nike shoes and Dorfman hats, but the same principle applies. Theoretically the customer has the power, not the maker or the retailer. At least, this has been my observation with the overseas markets. Go back to the store in a few months, and I bet the retailer will be forced to greatly reduce or clearance the hats because of the lack of demand due partly to high price, and finite space.

[fenris]

That's what I find weird about that shop. It's actually just an open stall in the middle of the mall. They primarily sell cowboy hats and boots plus some leather bands and trinkets. As far as I know, the western look has never been popular here (unless it's Halloween or you're a waiter at a steak house).

I've don't even see any people taking real interest in their stall (being that this is the only place I've seen any felt hats, I do go there a lot... or at least observe from a distance so as not to look too weird). There is really a lack of demand for these hats. What I don't understand is how they can hike up the prices that high when nobody is even really buying their products. Okay, that's an exaggeration... some have bought the Indy hats before. They did run out of Indy hats a year ago... I just wanna know who these fellow Indy fans are!

[Texan Scott]

Maybe most were purchased around halloween? A one time thing?

[maboot38]

Yikes! Dave Hack sells that same DP hat for $32.00!!!!!!

As for the Stetsons, I've never seen ANY wool Stetson sell for much over $60. Even the straw and felt ones tend to only go for around $100.

[fenris]

Yikes! Dave Hack sells that same DP hat for $32.00!!!!!!

As for the Stetsons, I've never seen ANY wool Stetson sell for much over $60. Even the straw and felt ones tend to only go for around $100.

It's crazy, right?

[fifthchamber]

I guess it's all about the people buying...True rabbit/beaver felt hats being so rare here means they're INSANELY over-priced...And the basic wool hats can be sold to people who really don't know better and just want to say "my hat cost XXX-amount"...Rather than wear something decent and well made...Japan's priorities are "interesting" to say the least...

This is the Borsalino Japan website..Good fun to look at..Although amazingly over-priced...The winter season brings nicer rabbit felts/beaver felts, and at least a doubling of the price...Why anyone would pay it is beyond me...But then, they want to wear a "BORSALINO" hat...And have more money than sense...

http://shop.jborsalino.com/?pid=24236823" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(40,000yen is 400 dollars more or less)

[BendingOak]

I guess it's all about the people buying...True rabbit/beaver felt hats being so rare here means they're INSANELY over-priced...And the basic wool hats can be sold to people who really don't know better and just want to say "my hat cost XXX-amount"...Rather than wear something decent and well made...Japan's priorities are "interesting" to say the least...

This is the Borsalino Japan website..Good fun to look at..Although amazingly over-priced...The winter season brings nicer rabbit felts/beaver felts, and at least a doubling of the price...Why anyone would pay it is beyond me...But then, they want to wear a "BORSALINO" hat...And have more money than sense...

http://shop.jborsalino.com/?pid=24236823" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(40,000yen is 400 dollars more or less)

Im way under price then.

[fenris]

I guess it's all about the people buying...True rabbit/beaver felt hats being so rare here means they're INSANELY over-priced...And the basic wool hats can be sold to people who really don't know better and just want to say "my hat cost XXX-amount"...Rather than wear something decent and well made...Japan's priorities are "interesting" to say the least...

This is the Borsalino Japan website..Good fun to look at..Although amazingly over-priced...The winter season brings nicer rabbit felts/beaver felts, and at least a doubling of the price...Why anyone would pay it is beyond me...But then, they want to wear a "BORSALINO" hat...And have more money than sense...

http://shop.jborsalino.com/?pid=24236823" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(40,000yen is 400 dollars more or less)

Im way under price then.

You should open shop in Japan... you'd be rich!

[fifthchamber]

Hahah..Trust me, if John wanted to open a "branch" store here in Japan, he'd have a LOT of cash to play with...

That said, building space in Tokyo is at such a premium that he'd probably have to shell it all over to pay for the space...That and the various taxes etc....Although....He could sell them out of my house and perhaps avoid that?

What d'ya say John? Want to send me a load of hats and trust me to sell them for you? (as opposed to just wear one a day until I'd gone through them all?)

.....................................No?

............................................................####.



(Seriously though, you'd probably have a HUGE market here...And enough of a mark-up to make your current prices seem insanely cheap...)

[Texan Scott]

(40,000yen is 400 dollars more or less)

..something about paying $400 just seems easier.

[fifthchamber]

..something about paying $400 just seems easier.

Tell me about it......The only upside is that I HAVE earnt and spent a million....So I'm a millionaire...Just a Yen-Millionaire...Which means naff all really..

I regularly walk around with about 50,000 yen in my wallet...It's very empowering (Although STILL means naff all)....LOL

[maboot38]

(40,000yen is 400 dollars more or less)

..something about paying $400 just seems easier.

Paying in DONG is worst of all!
(8,224,000.00 VND)

[BendingOak]

Would be nice, huh? Im a one man shop doing everything by hand. Hard to supply another shop working that way. Gave me a thought.

[fifthchamber]

Yeah...It's a bit hard to "handmake" hats for customers in another country when you can't even see them eh? And if I just said "well, they're all about 23 1/2" you probably wouldn't believe me?

Still...If you're ever in the mind to expand somehow, let me know...It would be a skill I'd like to learn, and I'd like to be part of something like that and perhaps it's not "TOTALLY impossible" to get something up and running in the future eh?

Well....It's an offer if you care to consider it...I'm more than sure you'd have a huge customer base...There are some really GREAT looking hat shops in Shibuya, one of Tokyo's biggest shopping areas, and they STILL sell absolute basic hats..Wool for 99%....Nothing worth mentioning....But they pull in enough to support the store..So, I'm sure there'd be a bigger base for QUALITY hatters...

Regards..

[BendingOak]

Thats not what I meant. Making a hat for someone a state away is no different than the other side of the planet. What I meant was I can't make enough by hand to stock a shop. All my hats are made by hand, it would take way to long and are to expensive for most walk by traffic. To have a walk in store you would need hats priced under $200. Something would have to change to get the price that low. use much, much lower quality material and have a factory make the hats. At the price we would be shooting for it would be the best working on them. Im not putting my name on that.

[fifthchamber]

Ahh...I see what you mean....

What I was thinking was having something closer to the "Henry" for the shop, enough to turn it over and pay overheads, and a speciality section for customers who wanted more...Since Japan is a country that focuses heavily on quality (and cost, sometimes cost more than quality), you could sell something factory made like the "Henry", or the Akubra hats perhaps for profit and have a good shot at satisfying customers who wanted something serious with a longer wait...

Hatmaking was never something done for chain-shops....So I think any attempt at that would lead back to wool hats and fitted caps (which all the hat shops here do already).. But something a little more classy would have a solid customer base....I feel...

In my opinion, the Henry has a lot more style and quality to it than the majority of the hats on the Borsalino site...And it would be interesting to see something that could compete with that in japan and win...That's all..

[BendingOak]

Ahh...I see what you mean....

What I was thinking was having something closer to the "Henry" for the shop, enough to turn it over and pay overheads, and a speciality section for customers who wanted more...Since Japan is a country that focuses heavily on quality (and cost, sometimes cost more than quality), you could sell something factory made like the "Henry", or the Akubra hats perhaps for profit and have a good shot at satisfying customers who wanted something serious with a longer wait...

Hatmaking was never something done for chain-shops....So I think any attempt at that would lead back to wool hats and fitted caps (which all the hat shops here do already).. But something a little more classy would have a solid customer base....I feel...

In my opinion, the Henry has a lot more style and quality to it than the majority of the hats on the Borsalino site...And it would be interesting to see something that could compete with that in japan and win...That's all..

I understand where you are coming from but I would never do a factory hat unless it was made by the same people who made the Henry.

If you let someone else sell your hats then you start to loose control of quality. I never set out to have my hats sold like that nor to do mass market. I have always thought high end/custom. I have sold hats all over the world this way. Even to your neck of the woods.

I think we need to get this train back on the tracks.