TNO versus G&B?

[CM]

This is for you guys who own both (the rest of you should remain silent ) which jacket is going to last the longest? Which one will you pass on to your grandchildren? I'm not interested in which replicates the movie look. I'm intereted in which jacket you can still be wearing 25-45 years from now (assuming you are still alive).

[Indyzane]

Uh oh, here we go! I would say both of them I had a G&B and have TNO. Love them both! Truly excellent craftmanship to the finest degree.

I'll tell you what I'm excited to pass down to my son! My Todd standard, seriously! I love that jacket.

[Texan Scott]

I have a TNO LC jacket, but I give the nod to the G&B goat. It really is the best value for the money, at half the price.

[Texan Scott]

Uh oh, here we go! I would say both of them I had a G&B and have TNO. Love them both! Truly excellent craftmanship to the finest degree.

I'll tell you what I'm excited to pass down to my son! My Todd standard, seriously! I love that jacket.

Yep, the Todd's Std & Fed. are two staples in the forum, no doubt.

What I noticed through trial and error is that the Raiders jacket, etc., can be over-engineered, too thick, etc. I realized that I prefer a jacket that was a relatively thin, light weight wear anywhere, anytime kind of leather cover, if that makes any sense at all.

[Gorak]

My two cents would support the Expo as a hand-me-down. The one I have I use wear all the time because it was so comfy, I would forget it was there. And still, after hard wearing daily use, it still looks almost new. The Nowak I had was a very cool jacket but FOR ME, it just wasnt comfy and didnt fit MY bill of a Raiders jacket. It was too bulky and as such, I would always end up reaching for another jacket just for comforts sake. And having my Expo be run over by a forklift and walk away looking just the same as it did before is a good testiment to its durability!

[theman]

Depends which TNO Indy jacket... The ones made out of cow I'd say would become a passdown vintage jacket without batting an eyelash... the Lamb Raiders would too but becomes a bit more fragile when wet, so may not last as many years depending on wear conditions. But regardless of which type the stitchwork/reinforcements and linings are second to none.

I have thoroughly gone over the G&B but have not put it through any longterm wear to accurately gauge the lifetime... but initial thoughts are that it will also make for a great passdown vintage jacket, as it is well stitched and the goat is just as it should be, tough as Cow with the weight of Lamb.
If going with custom sizing a G&B it starts getting a bit closer to the TNOs in cost, so that should be of note to anyone deciding between the two.

As to the fit, this did not seem to be part of the ? in the OP, but my TNOs are hands down winners there, nailing the fit on each one... although the loosest fit of the TNO-CS is close to how the G&B standard sizing is spec'ed in proportions. The G&B would require custom length of body and longer sleeves to even match any of the movie jackets' proportions for my build or th original in Harrison Ford's.

[Rundquist]

I have both, but my TN is a lambskin so it is apples and oranges. I would imagine that in a tough skin like goat, a TN won't let you down. It's made well. But I still have to give the nod to G&B. They're next to indestructible.

[Gorak]

Hey there, theman....that last Lambskin Nowak you purchased from the Bizzarre you swiped out from under me...I was the "other interested party". And it could not have gone to a better man...it looks awesome on you!
actually it made me get my own Nowak as I truly regretted not having moved fast enough on yours.

[Gorak]

I know exactly what your talking about, _. I have documented my Expo ad nauseum in other threads but everything about it still looks encredibly newsish even though I haven`t cared for it at all. I wanted it to be my beater jacket so I can see what a real Indy jacket would look like but it seems to have beaten me as I have just given up trying to distress it! One tough long lasting jacket!

[Michaelson]

I absolutely give the nod to the Expedition as well.

As has been said, though, apples to oranges....specifically the fact that the Expedition has an iron-clad life time warranty on seams and hardware to the original owner of the jacket.

Actual TN's are technically no longer made, and Riley has stated he plans on closing his business at any time. Any 'fixes' to one of Tony's jackets now cost to be done by Riley. I have no clue what Riley's warranty is on jackets of his making.

I love my TN, but if you're asking which one will 'last longest'? The one with the best warranty will, of course, and that's the G&B Expedition.

Regards! Michaelson

[CM]

Thanks eveyone for some really interesting responses. I particulalry get Michaelson's point about the warranty.

[Michaelson]

[Baldwyn]

Thanks eveyone for some really interesting responses. I particulalry get Michaelson's point about the warranty.

I've mentioned certain makers I classify as "heirloom" quality, ie that my grandkids will be fighting over them someday.

This is why we should have multiple jackets of heirloom quality.

[Canada Jones]

Thanks eveyone for some really interesting responses. I particulalry get Michaelson's point about the warranty.

I've only ever used the warranty once. I got my tie stuck in the zip on an A2. When I tried pulling it out - well - I did not use finesse. I used a small screwdriver. A tooth went out of alignment. They replaced it - no charge.

I've mentioned certain makers I classify as "heirloom" quality, ie that my grandkids will be fighting over them someday.

G&B
Vanson
Real McCoy
Bates
Aero

I don't own a Goodwear, but I've handled two. I think they very well may be in that class. Eastman's used to be, but the knits and linings are just not good anymore. The knits especially are flimsy.

In fact, a good comparison to understand this difference in an heirloom quality jacket and just an expensive reproduction would be to compare the rib-rack knits from the G&B M422a and the Eastman M422a. It's an intricate an complex weave. My G&B's still looks perfect after 12 years. My Eastman had lost it's elasticity after a little over a year. I got rid of the Eastman a long time ago.

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First _, lets hope your grandkids are weightlifters or no one will be fighting over any of your jackets since fit would be an issue. Second, since you own so many jackets I am sure there will be plenty of great jackets to go round!

best
Canada

[Tibor]

[quote="_"]

In fact, a good comparison to understand this difference in an heirloom quality jacket and just an expensive reproduction would be to compare the rib-rack knits from the G&B M422a and the Eastman M422a. It's an intricate an complex weave. My G&B's still looks perfect after 12 years. My Eastman had lost it's elasticity after a little over a year. I got rid of the Eastman a long time ago.

Thing is, it sounds like the Eastman was pretty authentic in that the knits on the originals also went limp making the jacket often hang pretty straight. G&B makes fine stuff though.

[Michaelson]

Thing is, it sounds like the Eastman was pretty authentic in that the knits on the originals also went limp making the jacket often hang pretty straight...

Not sure that's a good thing or not, Tibor.

As an example, late 1950's Plymouth's were notorious for rusting out within 5 years. I'm not sure I'd want a reproduction of a late 50's Plymouth that was true to form and rusted out just like the original because it WAS supposed to be a true 'reproduction' OF the original.

Just saying...

Regard! Michaelson

[CM]

Thing is, it sounds like the Eastman was pretty authentic in that the knits on the originals also went limp making the jacket often hang pretty straight...

Not sure that's a good thing or not, Tibor.

As an example, late 1950's Plymouth's were notorious for rusting out within 5 years. I'm not sure I'd want a reproduction of a late 50's Plymouth that was true to form and rusted out just like the original because it WAS supposed to be a true 'reproduction' OF the original.

Just saying...

Regard! Michaelson

Hmmm... kinda reminds me of those folk who want an SA Indy jacket right down to the useless aluminium zip they think the film jacket had.

[61ButteMT]

I'd also have to add Lost Worlds in this heirloom quality thread. I just got one in HH for my son, and it's gorgeous.
It will no doubt go to his kids and beyond.
Paddy at RMNZ told me that they're basically good at taking patterns and making authentic repros, not like the Aero craftsmen/women in designing, etc.
I also think some of Schott's jackets are up there in quality too. I've got a lot of different pieces I expect to hand down. I just hope the kids and grandkids appreciate them. My son does, so it's a good start.

[61ButteMT]

Sorta nuts? He argued with me about MY size and talked me out of a $1200 jacket. Yes, you make sense. He's actually kinda funny once you understand the guy. Suffers no fools, and is a PITA, but makes a helluva jacket.
I personally don't like his jackets for the most part, but my son loves this jacket and I'm sure once it wears in, it will be more to my liking. I'm a real Aero fan myself. And I do like Schott and Vanson which began when I got into street bike sin 1988.
This is one expensive and elusive hobby. You never seem to find the ONE perfect jacket. It do nest exist, as I've learned. Bt that's ok (unless you ask my "boss") as a closet full is close to perfect

[61ButteMT]

Sorry, typos courtesy of my iPad and tired fingers. Too many hours testing Apple's soon to be released software and big fat fingers <going to bed now>

[Tibor]

Well, a bit of a mix really. Tight knits look off to me for a 422 mostly because I'm into the look of the AVG jackets in China. They didn't bunch or pull back when unzipped and hung pretty straight when they were unzipped. And yeah, I know they were different knits than the A2. You're right though, I like the better materials but I don't want them used in a way that changes the look I'm after.

Yeah... Not certain Eastman was being "authentic" or just cheap. What you describe is fair for A2's. But NOT the USN jackets. And G&B is improving on the originals with respect to quality. It's like getting Peter's garbage aluminum zips and saying that's quality because it's originals.

I hear you - but you're using a logical approach that is fatally flawed, and I know that you are smarter then to fall for it. You're just using it to illustrate. Am I right?

Oh - and on the knits? It's the rib-rack jersey knits on the hem of the M422a. Not the simple jersey on an A2. It's a complex two-way knit that transitions halfway down the rack. It's very cool - really a beautiful work of art all by itself. The originals of that rib rack lasted many years. I've seen several terrific wartime examples that still hold the original shape and spring. A good one is at the air museum in Palm Springs. It's in a glass case by the AVG display. Very cool stuff!

In fact, I'd classify Rough Wear AAF and Ferguson USN/USMC jackets from WWII as heirloom quality. Problem was with the RW? The AAF retired them beginning after 1943. Most of them are sitting in a warehouse in Burbank.


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[Tibor]

No, no, no ... Not saying I like crappy stuff.

I like really high quality and will pay a bunch for it, but part of the deal for me is retaining the look. Speaking of old cars, I'd prefer a lot of the vintage body styles but I want updated reliability, good air conditioning, safer handling, etc. I like when some of the better custom builders gut an old model and remake it with modern chassis underpinnings, engine, and electricals. Old mechanical stuff is great unless you need to depend on it.

For the modern jacket, as much as I like authentic knits, I hate when they get moth holes. If a company can make a synthetic knit that looks the same and doesn't make the jacket pull back when unzipped, that is ideal. Probably a matter of some makers not using enough of the knit. I think G&B does a pretty nice job.

Thing is, it sounds like the Eastman was pretty authentic in that the knits on the originals also went limp making the jacket often hang pretty straight...

Not sure that's a good thing or not, Tibor.

As an example, late 1950's Plymouth's were notorious for rusting out within 5 years. I'm not sure I'd want a reproduction of a late 50's Plymouth that was true to form and rusted out just like the original because it WAS supposed to be a true 'reproduction' OF the original.

Just saying...

Regard! Michaelson

[Michaelson]

Understood!

HIGH regards! Michaelson

[theman]

On Zips and other hardware - Personally I have had very nice SA hardware on all my TNO Indy jackets so far, each being correct for it's particular movie jacket, and each working reliably and smoothly. I enjoy the big chunky aluminum zip on my Cow ToD all the way down to the Raiders correctly small gauge zip... although on my CS I was really surprised and disappointed in the same ROTLA sized SA zip on that Cow jacket, just seems out of place there and not balanced, although it works very well mechanically all the same.

The hardware on the G&B I have gone over is nice stuff as well, and from what I understand is very close to what was used on the LC, although I am sure G&B's is actually better quality than the SA stuff.

Snaps have all worked nice on TNO and G&B jackets... but really the only snap failure I've had in an Indy jacket has been on a Wested.

Sliders/rings for the side straps on the jackets have all been correct and worked well on the TNOs...would never use two prong type if I had created one of these, but regardless they have worked and looked the proper part on my ToD. This type also did just fine in Wested's NH based later ToDs.
G&B standard side strap adjusters work fine as well, wouldn't expect anything less there and have never seen a problem in any regardless of jacket or type.

[theman]

Sorry about that Gorak, never knew i was swiping from underneath anyone...but thanks a bunch for the kind words. My Lambskin TNO was a particular number and particular details that made me attach to it and why I went for it, then the next find in a ToD seemed to match up in a similar manner. I think some things just work out fate-wise sometimes.

Hey there, theman....that last Lambskin Nowak you purchased from the Bizzarre you swiped out from under me...I was the "other interested party". And it could not have gone to a better man...it looks awesome on you!
actually it made me get my own Nowak as I truly regretted not having moved fast enough on yours.