Magnoli Goat Question

CM · Post by CM » Fri May 27, 2011 1:11 am

A poster here recently described it as paper thin. Can that really be the case? I though Magnoli's hides were good. I have been flirting with a goat Magnoli for a bit (not an Indy, as it happens) but never been there because I can't imagine a better goat than G&B's offering.

What is Magnoli's goat like and does it vary?

CRB · Post by **CRB** » Fri May 27, 2011 1:57 am

I had a War of the Worlds hero jacket in goat and a Minority Report jacket in goat. Both were pretty poor leather - plasticy feel and stiff. Wouldn't say they were thin, no. Certainly not worth the price by a long shot. What jacket are you after by the way ?

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Fri May 27, 2011 6:54 am

I have a goatskin and it is thick and nice and wonderfull and awesome and cool and sturdy and strong and beautifull and,............and well you get the idea.

bobcatmvp1 · Post by **bobcatmvp1** » Fri May 27, 2011 8:02 am

CRB wrote:I had a War of the Worlds hero jacket in goat and a Minority Report jacket in goat. Both were pretty poor leather - plasticy feel and stiff. Wouldn't say they were thin, no. Certainly not worth the price by a long shot. What jacket are you after by the way ?

Took the words right out of my mouth. But mine is fairly thin, at least much thinner than the Wested I received.

Long John Tinfoil · Post by **Long John Tinfoil** » Fri May 27, 2011 8:12 am

If you're used to cowhide or horsehide I can see how you might consider goat to be "thin". Never been hands-on with Magnoli's goods, but most of the feedback I've seen has been positive.

LJ

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri May 27, 2011 9:05 am

I received a Mag's LC in goat around Feb. of this year and it is the most accurate LC jacket I have, as LC makers are few and far between. Soft and pliable, the thickness of the skin is not overly thick and not too thin, either.

CM · Post by CM » Fri May 27, 2011 9:17 am

_ wrote:Yeah... The goat I've handled arrived about a year ago. It's a Firenze weight - 3oz or mid-weight. Speaking English? About what you get in HH from Eastman. It's not heavy. I've posted pics of one of my XO's. The leather has a coating when new. It responds to aging well. Per Tony his stuff from about 2 years ago was not what he liked. I think the goat I've held is at the top of all the goat I've handled. The only better was G&B's veg goat used on my Expedition.

3oz... that's okay. Not paper thin or thin at all, really. I'm not sure what to make of the nay sayers. Part of the problem on this site sometimes is that folks don't know leather and have never owned any leather jackets before. So they comment on what they think is good and that doesn't help matters. Thanks Patto. No disrespect meant to the others.

I'm thinking of getting the Open Road half belt made in goat - my favourite leather. I like the Surrogates jacket and this is close enough. In fact, I prefer the back yolk on this one. Need to lower the top front zipper cigarette pocket by one inch though. I just don't want to pay 1k for the Nowak copy of that great Californian design, good as that copy is.

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Fri May 27, 2011 9:36 am

You readin' this Dawg?

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Fri May 27, 2011 10:02 am

3oz aint light. Lost Worlds horse is 4oz and thats like armor. I think 3oz is probably too heavy for an indy.

CM · Post by CM » Fri May 27, 2011 10:14 am

HDRnR wrote:3oz aint light. Lost Worlds horse is 4oz and thats like armor. I think 3oz is probably too heavy for an indy.

3.5 is armor too. I wonder if weight is the whole issue here.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri May 27, 2011 11:23 am

I'd always wanted an accurate copy of the LC jacket, and maybe it was overkill, but they delivered:

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Fri May 27, 2011 12:57 pm

_ wrote:
HDRnR wrote:3oz aint light. Lost Worlds horse is 4oz and thats like armor. I think 3oz is probably too heavy for an indy.
3oz is a light-weight leather - as light as I'd go on a men's jacket. My G&B Expedition in veg goat is 3oz. The standard we usually see - like a USW or G&B - is generally 3.5oz. If I compare the samples I have from Wested over the years, they'd be 3.5. Comp weight hides are generally never less than 4-4.5. Stuart at LW uses 4oz+ hides. I think you're a little mistaken on your last statement. JMO...

Yeah I suppose 3oz goat may be fine as its way more pliable than horse. I think Stu uses lighter horse on his A-2's which would be too heavy for an indy imo if you want to capture that look. Difference is goat vs. horse. I have horse CHP jackets that are over fifty years old and are heavier than LW. Only thing that comes close is Langlitz heavy cow.

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Fri May 27, 2011 2:01 pm

_, yeah thats one reason why i like the Langlitz, its very heavy yet pliable. I have several LW's, my old Easy Ryder has one of the most beautiful hides I've ever seen. Its heavy but wearable. I also have this old CHP jacket no name maker that is insanely heavy, it really is almost too heavy to wear. There is nothing classier than horsehide done right tho. When Im not riding i wear Indy's because they are so comfortable.

bobcatmvp1 · Post by **bobcatmvp1** » Fri May 27, 2011 7:13 pm

Texan Scott wrote:I'd always wanted an accurate copy of the LC jacket, and maybe it was overkill, but they delivered:

Just by the way that jacket lays and folds while on that hanger, I can tell it is a different leather than my Magnoli goat is. And my Magnoli goat has very, very dark shades of red/burgundy mixed with the almost black, brown. From what I can tell yours and mine are different hides.

CM · Post by CM » Fri May 27, 2011 9:41 pm

Gotta dig that jacket design - especially those pocket flaps.

HDRnR · Post by **HDRnR** » Fri May 27, 2011 10:29 pm

_ wrote:That sounds like a nice collection, bud! I've been close to ordering his Buco a couple times, but I'd want mods and he tends to slam doors on non-purists.

Yeah gotta be careful on mods. He will do them, he's done them for a friend of mine but it also makes it non returnable if it doesnt work out.

61ButteMT · Post by **61ButteMT** » Sun May 29, 2011 1:18 am

I found a buffalo hide jacket at the Rose Bowl flea market. Size 54, weighs about 14 lbs. Theist jacket I've seen. Oz are a good estimate of weight, but not a great way to compare hides. My Aero on order is FQHH and will be around for my great grandkids and beyond. Host is simply not as stiff as FQHH or steer hide or Bison/buffalo. it doesn't tear as badly as sheep (B3 and rose bushes not a good combo) but it's less resistant than others. Thin goat is for fashion coats. I hate those kinds of jackets. I love heavy hides. And at my jacket size, it translates into heavy jackets.

61ButteMT · Post by **61ButteMT** » Sun May 29, 2011 1:20 am

Sorry for all the awful typos. Tired and typing on an iPad doesn't work well.

CM · Post by CM » Sun May 29, 2011 3:42 am

61ButteMT wrote:I found a buffalo hide jacket at the Rose Bowl flea market. Size 54, weighs about 14 lbs. Theist jacket I've seen. Oz are a good estimate of weight, but not a great way to compare hides. My Aero on order is FQHH and will be around for my great grandkids and beyond. Host is simply not as stiff as FQHH or steer hide or Bison/buffalo. it doesn't tear as badly as sheep (B3 and rose bushes not a good combo) but it's less resistant than others. Thin goat is for fashion coats. I hate those kinds of jackets. I love heavy hides. And at my jacket size, it translates into heavy jackets.

I know what you mean and that's the view you'll often read on Fedora Lounge. Thick is better. I however do not like thick jackets. I have owned many and I just don;t wear them becuase they are uncomfortable to me. The Expedition goat is as thick and heavy as I want to go in a jacket and even this is too heavy for many days. I also tried to wear an Aero FQHH Highwayman for 3 months and gave up.

I am hoping that the Magnoli goat is thick enough but not paper thin as one writer siad it was. If it's like the Expo I can do it. I don;t want to hand down my jacket to another generation I want to wear it here and now. A thinner, well-made jacket will still last decades and that's good enough for me.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue May 31, 2011 3:41 pm

Yeah, but one thing I had a hard time 'learning' over the years, though, is that 'thin' does not necessarily mean 'weak'.

Sometimes the thinnest material can be the strongest stuff out there in terms of tensile strength.....so don't always assume because something is thick or heavy means it's also the strongest item out there.

Regards! Michaelson

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:33 am

Not paper thin, and probably not as thick as a G&B.

61ButteMT · Post by **61ButteMT** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:15 am

I like thick hides. Just a personal thing.
Every forum has boobs. Every forum has b$ posts.
TFL overall is a great resource.
As to 'mil spec' agreed. Means nothing. Marketing term.
Fact is, sheepskin jackets used HH to reinforce arms and other bits. Sheepskin is the weakest of them, but warm with it's fleece.
I love goat, FQHH, cowhide. All have benefits. It's the quality of the hide that counts. But give me thick.

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:11 am

_ wrote:There are a LOT of things said on the Fedora Lounge that are bull... Not sure why that's some "source of authority"...

The Army went with whatever leather the vendors could get the cheapest. No leather was designated. If somebody tells you one was, they're full of it.

Well..... actually, per the Class 13 U.S. Army Air Forces catalog dated September 30, 1943:

" Jacket - Flying, Type A-2, Spec. No. 94-3040, Material: Seal brown horsehide leather. Knitted wristlets and waistband (skirt)."

So, the leather was designated, however I think _ is right that many contractors ignored it and used what they had on hand to fill the contract. (there was a war going on after all)

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 1:20 pm

Michaelson wrote:Yeah, but one thing I had a hard time 'learning' over the years, though, is that 'thin' does not necessarily mean 'weak'.

Sometimes the thinnest material can be the strongest stuff out there in terms of tensile strength.....so don't always assume because something is thick or heavy means it's also the strongest item out there.

Regards! Michaelson

That’s exactly right. Thin goatskin is super-strong, thin lambskin is not.

CM wrote:
61ButteMT wrote:I found a buffalo hide jacket at the Rose Bowl flea market. Size 54, weighs about 14 lbs. Theist jacket I've seen. Oz are a good estimate of weight, but not a great way to compare hides. My Aero on order is FQHH and will be around for my great grandkids and beyond. Host is simply not as stiff as FQHH or steer hide or Bison/buffalo. it doesn't tear as badly as sheep (B3 and rose bushes not a good combo) but it's less resistant than others. Thin goat is for fashion coats. I hate those kinds of jackets. I love heavy hides. And at my jacket size, it translates into heavy jackets.

I know what you mean and that's the view you'll often read on Fedora Lounge. Thick is better. I however do not like thick jackets. I have owned many and I just don;t wear them becuase they are uncomfortable to me. The Expedition goat is as thick and heavy as I want to go in a jacket and even this is too heavy for many days. I also tried to wear an Aero FQHH Highwayman for 3 months and gave up.

I am hoping that the Magnoli goat is thick enough but not paper thin as one writer siad it was. If it's like the Expo I can do it. I don;t want to hand down my jacket to another generation I want to wear it here and now. A thinner, well-made jacket will still last decades and that's good enough for me.

A jacket that hangs in your closet might as well be hanging in a garbage can. It’s about as useful. I don’t like thick leathered jackets either for the most part. I can see how some people in cold climates might, but they can keep their opinions with them in their cold climates, lol.

_ wrote:There are a LOT of things said on the Fedora Lounge that are bull... Not sure why that's some "source of authority"...

With them older is always better. It’s their religion. They’d have you believe that the Beatles were never a popular group. If I wanted to listen to closed minded people, I’d go to church, lol.

61ButteMT · Post by **61ButteMT** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:28 pm

Hmm, at the risk of losing my virgin membership here, seems open-minded doesn't include listening with anyone with an opposing POV?
I mean, I like heavy hides for a few reasons (not that I need to justify them). I was born in Montana. Cold, harsh climate. My grandfather and father for a few years were miners. All their gear was heavy, rugged stuff that I grew up loving.
Now, of course one can't wear FQHH in the summer without losing 30 pounds a day, but heavy leather has it's place - maybe not in an 'Indy' jacket, but...
Now, I got my first cowhide Indy and it's much thinner than I'm used to, but that's good as I want something for warmer months and camping, etc. So I think open-minded goes both ways. A I said, every forum has posts and posters that make you shake your head. But in defense of some of the points made, getting 100% accurate info on jackets made during WWII is difficult, and I've seen exceptions such as legit cowhide A2's. We all know in a time of war, and pre-technology era, things weren't so cut and dried.
I don't think anyone should take this stuff so seriously as to make people angry and fight.
My two cents. I just enjoy collecting things, - from jackets to watches.

Cheers

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:30 pm

_ wrote:
But not on the original 1931 spec. That's a rewrite, per RMNZ and Eastman.

What makes it MORE funny? That catalog came out AFTER the spec was discontinued. Nice find!

Oh, got it. You're right, 1931 was a different thing altogether. I imagine quite a few were made out of the capeskin (calf or cow or steer or whatever it was) that they often used in the A-1. Pretty stuff, really.

61ButteMT · Post by **61ButteMT** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:57 pm

OK, the intentions meant in my post either were completely poorly written, or your interpretations are wrong. Either way, guess it's time to go. I know of all those makers, own an Aero 50's Halfbelt, have been discussing a custom with 'Paddy' at RMNZ, and have not read books specifically on jackets. I was not aware of the Burbank stash, even though I'm down the road from there and both my wife and I work in the music and film industries. I just came here looking for info, some fun and to pickup other perspectives on jackets.
I made no arguments counter to your "thin skins do not mean weak" post. To the contrary, I was replying to the other poster about being open minded to heavy hides, in which all I said was I like them, not that they're better.
I have a life, a career, and hobbies. I merely tried to join in the conversation, but I see that was a mistake. Oddly, I've never had any such retorts in TFL as this one.
Cheers.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:55 pm

61ButteMT wrote:I have a life, a career, and hobbies. I merely tried to join in the conversation, but I see that was a mistake. Oddly, I've never had any such retorts in TFL as this one.
Cheers.

Oh come now, don't we all, and your participation in any discussions is as much give and take as any other forum out there, INCLUDING TFL. You're no different than anyone else here, and you're surrounded by professionals of MANY years in many fields here...and quite a few past retirement age.

I was one of the very first moderators at TFL when it was first formed, and you've just been lucky NOT to have been singed in some of the bruha's that have occurred, and STILL occasionally occur. I left moderating there because I just had too much on my plate, but still stick my head in the door every now and again.

So, don't get all bent out of shape over a tempest in a teacup tell me more about your watches (in another thread, though). I collect them too.

Regards! Michaelson

61ButteMT · Post by **61ButteMT** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:44 pm

I see some bad blood in regards to TFL. Not been there long enough (one year) to know about those things. I don't do business with them, only participate now and then, mostly reading to learn more.
I didn't get "bent out of shape" as much as thinking "w-t-f did I do here to deserve THAT reply?
I have cars and motorcycles all bought with cash - what does that have to do with anything? You guys compare tax returns here? I'd be happy to compare if that's the case, but not why I came here...
My retort about "balance" only meant "no, I have not spent the time to become an expert in every item I have interest in." You assumed it meant something totally different sir. You're simply looking for every instance where you think I'm taking a dig, when I meant none in any post, except maybe this one now...
I collect, but am not expert in lots of things:
Motorcycles
Coins
WWII clothing, hardware
Watches
Craftsman furniture
I haven't looked here enough to know where to even post about such things. But good to know it's OK.
I don't have a slew of degrees, but I do have an amazing career nonetheless, and a family (both sides) that assure me, my wife, my kids, and my grandkids will all live well. I don't post that normally, but OK, now what?
I'm not running, just wondering how I got to this battle here. But since I'm here, and what's done is done, let's leave it at that. I'm not in need of a fight online. I haul my 6-4" carcass to the local gym for that. Sadly, I'm not an expert on the history of boxing gloves...
If showing people how much they don't know about what you know about is gratifying, enjoy.
I could talk to you about how to program in Xcode or rebuild a Bonnie, but I'd not take any satisfaction from showing you how little YOU know about doing so. Or maybe we battle it out on the Streets of Willow? Mano a Mano? Dunno. Flog me with your knowledge, or discuss with me. Up to you.

CM · Post by CM » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:50 am

Sounds like the Magnoli goat is okay then.

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:15 am

Who? What are you talking about? Was stuff deleted?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:18 am

...I've mowed lawns...

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:56 pm

61ButteMT wrote:I see some bad blood in regards to TFL. Not been there long enough (one year) to know about those things. I don't do business with them, only participate now and then, mostly reading to learn more.
I didn't get "bent out of shape" as much as thinking "w-t-f did I do here to deserve THAT reply?
I have cars and motorcycles all bought with cash - what does that have to do with anything? You guys compare tax returns here? I'd be happy to compare if that's the case, but not why I came here...
My retort about "balance" only meant "no, I have not spent the time to become an expert in every item I have interest in." You assumed it meant something totally different sir. You're simply looking for every instance where you think I'm taking a dig, when I meant none in any post, except maybe this one now...
I collect, but am not expert in lots of things:
Motorcycles
Coins
WWII clothing, hardware
Watches
Craftsman furniture
I haven't looked here enough to know where to even post about such things. But good to know it's OK.
I don't have a slew of degrees, but I do have an amazing career nonetheless, and a family (both sides) that assure me, my wife, my kids, and my grandkids will all live well. I don't post that normally, but OK, now what?
I'm not running, just wondering how I got to this battle here. But since I'm here, and what's done is done, let's leave it at that. I'm not in need of a fight online. I haul my 6-4" carcass to the local gym for that. Sadly, I'm not an expert on the history of boxing gloves...
If showing people how much they don't know about what you know about is gratifying, enjoy.
I could talk to you about how to program in Xcode or rebuild a Bonnie, but I'd not take any satisfaction from showing you how little YOU know about doing so. Or maybe we battle it out on the Streets of Willow? Mano a Mano? Dunno. Flog me with your knowledge, or discuss with me. Up to you.

If you are going to call out people for their opinions, they’ll call you out for yours. If it’s nothing personal (and really nothing on a board like this should be), then there should be nothing to take offense of.

I took a couple of jabs at the FL, and that’s my prerogative. I don’t judge any one individual there. In fact some of them are pretty cool people. But if I want to make a generalized statement about the place, then I am entitled. I don’t need to qualify my opinions, but I’ll do so anyway.

A number of years ago I posted a picture of a wartime A-2 jacket that had a truly awful collar. One collar tip was round and the other was pointed. I made a crack about it. Now this was not a member’s A-2 that they had purchased. This was a picture that I posted. I was summarily chastised, by the pretty much the whole board. Didn’t I know that there were wartime shortages? Didn’t I know that they had to make do with materials that were on hand? Well, I did know all of that. Despite the fact that the jacket was a historical representation, I simply stated that the jacket was an ugly version of the A-2.

How dare I say that something that was old and original was ugly. One guy went so far as to say that he would be “proud” to wear it. The whole thing was ridiculous.

Most of us with opinions about the FL are not Johnny-come-latelys.

Again, if you call somebody out about their personal opinions, well this is what you can expect.

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:33 pm

Maybe we can get back on track here. I've always liked goat just because of it's durability. Does anyone with samples of each have a scale they could estimate for the thickness used by our jacket craftsmen?

I was thinking that the Nowak goat I have is among the thicker I've seen, followed by the G&B goat (haven't seen the veg-tanned anywhere, but the chrome-tanned). After that I'd be interested to see what the comparison between Wested and Magnoli is. I think US Wings isn't using goat in Indy jackets anymore (other than maybe the kids' version).

I think there is always the balance with goat of trying to make it thin enough to be drapey as it can get a bit less so as it gets thicker. I think Magnoli is trying to hit that sweet spot where it's rugged yet drapey in his goat. And there is something useful in a light-weight jacket in the jungle.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:52 pm

I would guess, and it is just that, one sq. ft. of the goatskin that Mag's technician uses is maybe 5-6 oz. per sq. ft. The skin is not a thin as a Todd's lamb, if that is of any help?

61ButteMT · Post by **61ButteMT** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:31 pm

I'll make one more attempt to redeem here. I am not critical of anyone's jackets or choices in leather, style, color, vintage, etc. That would be asinine. I'm not that way.
If my "I don't like thin" comment at the top was construed as something other than what "I" like, I apologize.
I'm not trolling.
I'm not looking to fight.
I relate thin leather to fashion jackets I (used to) see guys wearing in clubs. OK, it's a generalization, not meant to offend, only my taste.
I said I liked and bought an Indy FOR the thinner skin for warmer times. It's a hard adjustment for me, being a heavy hide guy. And I will state this right now: that preference has NOTHING to do with TFL or it's members.
I've read some posts there that are snarky, but I've learned to ignore them. Some guys know a boatload about the history of certain styles, which I read to learn.
I'm just not a guy that likes to put anyone down or be put down. If this isn't good enough to get some sort of understanding here, I'll gladly go so as not to interfere with the flow.

Cheers

Tibor · Post by **Tibor** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:39 pm

Sounds ok to me. Your interests sound like they fit right in. My two cents, I think thin works better to capture the look of the Indy jacket, but I like the feel of thicker jackets from the point of "this may actually protect me from a critter bite". Indy's look in Raiders depended on a floppy, drapey leather and lamb is it. Real world lamb just doesn't survive the roses as you mentioned. That's ok if you've got a wardrobe department to back you up, but a little heartbreaking when you catch a snag.

61ButteMT · Post by **61ButteMT** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:05 pm

I got this USW "Texas" steer hide as a beater, and based on the pics I've seen here, beating it is the goal anyway.
A lot of my jackets are too nice to throw in the dirt, but this one is for that, and I actually did that to get it out of my system, not unlike the first dent in your new car.
I wore my goat G1 this morning as we are still in the low 50°s here, and the fit (military) and skin thickness are tough for me to adjust to, but I obviously can't wear a B3/D1 or FQHH jacket here now.
The only thing that goat doesn't do as well (in my experience) in under 40 years use, is the desirable wrinkling in the sleeves, etc.
Maybe I could cheat by washing as I've read some do, but I don't have the play in sleeve length to experiment.
It's all a learning curve for me. And not unlike watches, an expensive hobby to play with if you have no self control, as is the case with me...

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:45 pm

(deleted - sorry, thought it was relevent to the properties of goat)

61ButteMT · Post by **61ButteMT** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:04 pm

Thank you _. I fully accept and understand. It's tough being a new guy to a forum, which is why I've posted sparingly trying to get the feel of the place. I've done the same, and I'd love to put it behind us.
To the others, I apologize for the derailed content on a good thread...

Now, on to the subject. I have heavy moto jackets that have saved my bacon twice. Maybe that's the underlying reason thicker is in my skull. I literally walked away from two accidents having never gone down in the prior 20 years (on the street)
Then, out of the blue, within two years, two idiots took me out.

So, on to leather. This is my first Indy jacket. I probably was attracted to it due to the A2 influences, and general bad-*ss look of it, plus it's seemingly very versatile.
I wish I had been able to get the striated version, but USW was only left with a 2XL at the large end. I either need a 2XL-L, or a 3XL.
Sadly, the A2 I got in the "same hide" is a helluva lot better, quality wise. I already have more arm 'character' in two months than my A2 goats from years of wear. Maybe some soaking is in order?

Btw, a kinda cool thing I have to tell as it will likely be appreciated here. My father bought his last home in California from Harrison Ford. It was a great home on a cul de sac in Beverly Hills. HF had done a ton of the woodwork in the house, and was obviously very talented. Dad hated to sell it, but they needed to move to accommodate his wife's dying father. The cool thing was that the woman that bought it lived in it when she was a kid, and always wanted to own it. My dad spent a fortune getting it prepped, photographed, and ready to show when she bought the thing before it went on the block (officially)
So, I guess I've made a mess here, but hopefully it will now return to fun.

Thanks for the pix of your goat Indy above. How long did you wear it, and did you do anything to expedite the process?

Scott

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:13 pm

whiskyman wrote:The couple of goat jackets I owned seemed to develop fairly good arm wrinkles in not too much time.
Here's my first goat indy jacket at about 18 months old.
]

As it is Magnolis goatskin in question please lets keep westeds goatskin in a wested thread.

It's the second time you have posted westeds goatskin in other vendors goatskin threads. not a biggie but just sayin. Lets just keep it on topic

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:21 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:
whiskyman wrote:The couple of goat jackets I owned seemed to develop fairly good arm wrinkles in not too much time.
Here's my first goat indy jacket at about 18 months old.
]
As it is Magnolis goatskin in question please lets keep westeds goatskin in a wested thread.

It's the second time you have posted westeds goatskin in other vendors goatskin threads. not a biggie but just sayin. Lets just keep it on topic

I agree with you in principle, but any example of goatskin is pertinent to the discussion. Leather batches just vary too much. Batches of leather will vary, even with the same technical specs. Goats don’t live up to technical specs, unfortunately, lol. Cheers

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:09 pm

61ButteMT wrote:Btw, a kinda cool thing I have to tell as it will likely be appreciated here. My father bought his last home in California from Harrison Ford. It was a great home on a cul de sac in Beverly Hills. HF had done a ton of the woodwork in the house, and was obviously very talented. Dad hated to sell it, but they needed to move to accommodate his wife's dying father. The cool thing was that the woman that bought it lived in it when she was a kid, and always wanted to own it. My dad spent a fortune getting it prepped, photographed, and ready to show when she bought the thing before it went on the block (officially)
So, I guess I've made a mess here, but hopefully it will now return to fun.

Scott

Scott:
First, welcome.
Second, great story about the HF house. Any photos kicking around of the place you would like to share?

Third, and on point with this thread. It was a member in this forum (Michaelson) who put me on to goat skin years ago. It quickly became my favorite leather. My first Indy jacket was a Wested Lamb and I quickly found out that lamb is not a very durable leather (I wore it hiking and the branches cut the leather). The goatskin jacket I replaced it with really was tough as nails (Gibson and Barnes indy jacket). I bought it used but it still looked new. I outgrew the jacket but was able to trade jackets with another member here (he had the size larger which was too big for him). THe great thing was he was the same guy I had bought the original jacket from in the first place. He had been all over the world in it and was really happy to get it back. Around the same time I bought a Wings SIgnature goat Indy jacket. They were blowing them out for $200 brand new. US made by Schott to boot. Anyway I bought one of those jacket and when the jacket arrived the first thing I noticed was that the leather was noticably thicker and heavier than the G&B. I enjoy wearing the heavier hide as it gives a better sense of protection so I hear where you are coming from on the heavier hides. However, the lighter weight goat G&B drapes better and is better in warmer weather. In fact I was wearing it today (it's in the 80s) and I actually was not overly warm (in my defense I work late and it has been cool in the evening).

best
Canada

61ButteMT · Post by **61ButteMT** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:28 pm

Thanks, Canada.
I'm sure I can get pix. I'll talk to my Pop. I actually met my wife there. I threw a small dinner party while my dad was out of town, and my best friends bought someone that they thought I'd hit it off with - we celebrate our 20th this September. I just realized that's where I met her, so I better get some pix!

As for the jackets, I keep watching the USW site for deals. Not that I'm cheap, but hey...
I am a tad disappointed in the Indy. Not so much that the hide is thin (which it is) but that it's kinda like cardboard and dried out. I put a good coat of Lexol on it in the sun after it warmed up, but it's not really any better, as I expected. So, I could gripe and hassle with a return, or sell it (I did out up an ad in the classifieds)
For $200, it's not a huge loss, but soured me a bit.

I've talked with every major maker of jackets to see who would make me customs, and only Aero (and possibly RMNZ) can/will do it. So, I think at was part of the motivation to drop a few pounds to see if I can squeak into a 50.

I think I need to take a break from buying things so I make it to the big 20!

Scott

Canada Jones · Post by **Canada Jones** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:54 pm

Scott:
Thanks for taking a look for those pics. On the jackets - with leather being a natural product as you know, no two jackets are the same. I like leather with lots of texture but all the jackets I own though have mixed textures on different parts of the jacket. Strangely both the Wings and the G&B have the most texture on the left arm. I think the Wings signature Indy goat jacket I bought was from a batch made 10 years ago. I guess Sarge decided to clear out his warehouse. I believe the goat used on these jackets was the same leather used on the US Airforce Issue A-2's he makes. The Wings jacket did not seem as shiney as the G&B althought with a wash or two the shine on the G&B has been dramatically reduced. And heck, I don't think you are cheap for looking for sales. One of the best places to get stuff is in the Cairo Bazaar. That is where I have gotten all of my recent jackets. My newest jacket is a beautiful Horsehide A-2 from another member here which he sold for a great price. NOt only was I thrilled at the price but when I got the jacket I found an Indy patch in the pocket. I wrote him and told him that he had forgotten a patch in the pocket and that I was going to ship it back, he said, no that was sent as a gift. The people here really are what make this forum such a wonderful place.
best,
Canada (Gary)

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:27 am

Indiana Holt wrote:
whiskyman wrote:The couple of goat jackets I owned seemed to develop fairly good arm wrinkles in not too much time.
Here's my first goat indy jacket at about 18 months old.
]
As it is Magnolis goatskin in question please lets keep westeds goatskin in a wested thread.

It's the second time you have posted westeds goatskin in other vendors goatskin threads. not a biggie but just sayin. Lets just keep it on topic

Just wanted to respond to the comment that goat in general doesn't develop wrinkles. Won't happen ever again!

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:55 am

sorry if I came off alittle short, I was in bad mood yesterday. lol.

little sleep these days.

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:59 am

Welcome to the wonderful world of parenting ...you shall never sleep the same again!

Travis

Holt · Post by **Holt** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 7:03 am

so true my friend, so true.

61ButteMT · Post by **61ButteMT** » Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:11 pm

Aaah. New parents? LOL, just gettin' the last of my three out the door. It's a tough adjustment, especially if you were a true bachelor early on.
Guess I picked a great time to join here.

Maybe you guys should wear some thicker hides

j/k