Would this Fedora be considered an oxymoron in the hat world

beaverlid · Post by **beaverlid** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:12 pm

I was browsing the web and came across this fedora. No I am not thinking about buying one. I am quite happy with my current fedora. However, when I saw this I was shocked. I only hear the dp get the worst of the bad press around here and wondered how many were aware that they produced a beaver felt fedora. Anyway something interesting I thought I might share. I am not looking to hear all of the advice to buy a Penman or an AB. I own one of each, thank you.

For some reason this dp 100% beaver struck me as odd....

Dorfman Pacific Limited Edition Indiana Jones hats, 100% Beaver felt

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:41 pm

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... fic+beaver" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Among other discussions, it really came out of the woodwork back in 2008. Here's one of those discussions.

Regards! Michaelson

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:44 pm

I have one & it is on par with a Penman or Adventurebilt. The way it is creased from the factory along with the crown height (5 1/4 inches) makes it perfect for a ToD fedora.

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:57 pm

Bruce Wayne wrote:I have one & it is on par with a Penman or Adventurebilt.

Really? I could never imagine a dorfman being on par with any handcrafted hat.

unplugged · Post by **unplugged** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:00 pm

I also bought one about 4yrs ago, though it may not be completely SA, the felt certainly is tough as nails.

I wouldn't say that the construction of the hat is on par with a custom hat, but the materials are top notch!

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:16 pm

jnicktem wrote:
Bruce Wayne wrote:I have one & it is on par with a Penman or Adventurebilt.
Really? I could never imagine a dorfman being on par with any handcrafted hat.

Well, not that I could ever agree that a factory hat could ever match a Penman or AB... but this particular hat is a DP in name only, if I recall correctly. In fact, it may have been Fedora himself who found out who the actual manufacturer is. It should be buried somewhere in the threads from 2008.

beaverlid · Post by **beaverlid** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:41 pm

Was it a Milano?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:03 pm

Bruce Wayne wrote:I have one & it is on par with a Penman or Adventurebilt. The way it is creased from the factory along with the crown height (5 1/4 inches) makes it perfect for a ToD fedora.

Ouch, that hurts.

Darth Indiana · Post by **Darth Indiana** » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:39 pm

indeed.

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 3:53 pm

BendingOak wrote:
Bruce Wayne wrote:I have one & it is on par with a Penman or Adventurebilt. The way it is creased from the factory along with the crown height (5 1/4 inches) makes it perfect for a ToD fedora.

Ouch, that hurts.

My apologizes, John. But htis is a real high quality hat. The felt cme from Fepsa. The same place that Marc gets his felt. And the hat itself is not actually made my Dorfman. If you handled this hat, I think you would be plesantly suprised!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:48 pm

If it's the same source and grade as Marc's, then it's Portugese felt.

GREAT stuff, in my opinion.

Regards! Michaelson

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:14 pm

That would be news to me as well...

But, honestly, EVERYTHING is news to me!

If it is indeed from Marc's felt, the felt is awesome...

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:11 pm

Bruce Wayne wrote:
BendingOak wrote:
Bruce Wayne wrote:I have one & it is on par with a Penman or Adventurebilt. The way it is creased from the factory along with the crown height (5 1/4 inches) makes it perfect for a ToD fedora.

Ouch, that hurts.
My apologizes, John. But htis is a real high quality hat. The felt cme from Fepsa. The same place that Marc gets his felt. And the hat itself is not actually made my Dorfman. If you handled this hat, I think you would be plesantly suprised!

Sorry to tell you his but that's not where marc gets his felt. I have handled one of these. Reblocked one. And my statement holds.

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:57 pm

BendingOak wrote:
Bruce Wayne wrote:
BendingOak wrote:
Bruce Wayne wrote:I have one & it is on par with a Penman or Adventurebilt. The way it is creased from the factory along with the crown height (5 1/4 inches) makes it perfect for a ToD fedora.

Ouch, that hurts.
My apologizes, John. But htis is a real high quality hat. The felt cme from Fepsa. The same place that Marc gets his felt. And the hat itself is not actually made my Dorfman. If you handled this hat, I think you would be plesantly suprised!

Sorry to tell you his but that's not where marc gets his felt. I have handled one of these. Reblocked one. And my statement holds.

Then where does Marc get his felt?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:47 pm

Thats really not for me to say but it's not who you think.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Mar 10, 2011 7:56 am

It's magic felt! He gets it from gnomes who live in the woods. Oh, wait, I wasn't supposed to spill that secret, was I?

Indiana MarkVII · Post by **Indiana MarkVII** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:03 am

I wouldn't worry too much, John. I'll be in line for a Penman the next time I'm looking for a hat. I have some ABs and AB Deluxe, so I am familiar with hand made hats, and I really can't wait to have one of your finest.

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:10 am

binkmeisterRick wrote:It's magic felt! He gets it from gnomes who live in the woods. Oh, wait, I wasn't supposed to spill that secret, was I?

From these fellas?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:52 am

The very same!

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:53 pm

Bruce Wayne wrote:I have one & it is on par with a Penman or Adventurebilt. The way it is creased from the factory along with the crown height (5 1/4 inches) makes it perfect for a ToD fedora.

In NO WAY is THAT hat even remotely like a Penman or Advenurebilt.

Johnny

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:43 pm

Johnny Fedora wrote:
Bruce Wayne wrote:I have one & it is on par with a Penman or Adventurebilt. The way it is creased from the factory along with the crown height (5 1/4 inches) makes it perfect for a ToD fedora.
In NO WAY is THAT hat even remotely like a Penman or Advenurebilt.

Johnny

Have you handled one?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 12:49 pm

I have reblock a couple and you need to look a little closer.

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:04 pm

BendingOak wrote:I have reblock a couple and you need to look a little closer.

Besides the felt being a little stiff, I stand by my previous statment. I am sorry if I offended you, John, but the one I have is high quality.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:15 pm

Bruce Wayne wrote:
BendingOak wrote:I have reblock a couple and you need to look a little closer.
Besides the felt being a little stiff, I stand by my previous statment. I am sorry if I offended you, John, but the one I have is high quality.

I guess my standards are a lot higher. There are a lot of differences than just being stiff. Sorry my friend but I see more than you.

unplugged · Post by **unplugged** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:57 pm

I agree that the hat does not compare to that of a custom job, but still a nice hat considering it is factory made. Sure, it doesnt have the best materials available, but how many custom hats do? All things considered I think it might be worth the price they charge, though I wouldn't have paid full price for it but that's just me.

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:38 pm

unplugged wrote:I agree that the hat does not compare to that of a custom job, but still a nice hat considering it is factory made. Sure, it doesnt have the best materials available, but how many custom hats do? All things considered I think it might be worth the price they charge, though I wouldn't have paid full price for it but that's just me.

I have seen them floating around the interwebs for around $300 or so...

unplugged · Post by **unplugged** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:52 pm

Bruce Wayne wrote:
unplugged wrote:I agree that the hat does not compare to that of a custom job, but still a nice hat considering it is factory made. Sure, it doesnt have the best materials available, but how many custom hats do? All things considered I think it might be worth the price they charge, though I wouldn't have paid full price for it but that's just me.
I have seen them floating around the interwebs for around $300 or so...

I picked mine up for a cool $200 about 4-1/2 years ago from Aaron Hats.
That's when everyone else was selling them for around $400-$450. It has held
up very well to all the intense abuse that I inflict.

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:53 am

I have actualy seen one of these, and where shall I begin?

The felt is in no way comparable to the felt that John, Marc, and Steve use. It may be 100% beaver but not all beavers are built the same it would seem.

While the crown might be abit higher than a standard DP Indy Hat, the crown is still too tapered to render without a reblock anything but the Stetson look sported in the Ford Tri-Motor in Temple of Doom. Hardly the look most of us here at COW are dieing to sport. And about that reblock...it can't be done to a factory built hat like the DP without tearing the brim at the perforation line made at the brimbreak by the factory sewing machines.

The color of the felt is off as well as the ubercrappy ribbon.

Not to beat a horse that's already on it's way to the glue factory, but the ribbon...realllly? John, Marc and Steve found and use THE ACTUAL RIBBON used in Raiders, Temple, Last Crusade, and Steve and Marc used it again in Crystal Skull. The ribbon on that DP is the wrong materal, has the wrong edging, is the wrong color, and the bow...need I go on?

To state even in passing that this hat is comparable to an Adventurebilt or Penman fedora is not only silly, but an insult that this Indygear Fan finds offensive in the gross extreme.

For the full suggested retail price of this hat, one could purchase an Adventurebilt Henry (the finest FACTORY made Indy Fedora, and not a custom hat at all), a Magnoli/Adventurebilt Herbert Johnson Fedora (my fav rabbit, and the best Factory/Custom Hybrid Indy hat), or the fully custom Penman Fedora (handmade in beaver, or rabbit, built by a man who very probably may stand alongside Steve and Marc making THE hats for Harrison if Indiana V ever happens).

"On par with a Penman or Adventurebilt"...indeed.

Johnny

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:00 am

Johnny Fedora wrote:I have actualy seen one of these, and where shall I begin?

The felt is in no way comparable to the felt that John, Marc, and Steve use. It may be 100% beaver but not all beavers are built the same it would seem.

While the crown might be abit higher than a standard DP Indy Hat, the crown is still too tapered to render without a reblock anything but the Stetson look sported in the Ford Tri-Motor in Temple of Doom. Hardly the look most of us here at COW are dieing to sport. And about that reblock...it can't be done to a factory built hat like the DP without tearing the brim at the perforation line made at the brimbreak by the factory sewing machines.

The color of the felt is off as well as the ubercrappy ribbon.

Not to beat a horse that's already on it's way to the glue factory, but the ribbon...realllly? John, Marc and Steve found and use THE ACTUAL RIBBON used in Raiders, Temple, Last Crusade, and Steve and Marc used it again in Crystal Skull. The ribbon on that DP is the wrong materal, has the wrong edging, is the wrong color, and the bow...need I go on?

To state even in passing that this hat is comparable to an Adventurebilt or Penman fedora is not only silly, but an insult that this Indygear Fan finds offensive in the gross extreme.

For the full suggested retail price of this hat, one could purchase an Adventurebilt Henry (the finest FACTORY made Indy Fedora, and not a custom hat at all), a Magnoli/Adventurebilt Herbert Johnson Fedora (my fav rabbit, and the best Factory/Custom Hybrid Indy hat), or the fully custom Penman Fedora (handmade in beaver, or rabbit, built by a man who very probably may stand alongside Steve and Marc making THE hats for Harrison if Indiana V ever happens).

"On par with a Penman or Adventurebilt"...indeed.

Johnny

I have had the ribbon replaced by Optimo. And I still think that this is a good quality hat that would be perfect for a ToD fedora.

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:50 pm

Pics?

And while I'm sure that having the ribbon replaced by Optimo helps, it's still just swapping one inaccurate ribbon for another. Sorry, but Optimo's ribbon gives off the wrong shine (from being made of a diffrent material), is the wrong color, and somethimes even photographs as purple for some reason.

Oh well.

Still, I would be intrested in seeing pictures of the hat in question. If you've been wearing it and tweeking it for awhile, it may infact look much better now than it did new. But again, it simply can't stand next to an Adventurebilt or Penman. Factory hat or not.

Johnny

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:00 pm

Just throwing this out there, but if the guy likes it, isn't that OK? he only said that he thought the felt came from Marc's felter, and he may or may not be right on that, but it seems to me that he just likes the hat. I never heard him say that these are super SA hats and everyone should own one. Just that he likes it, and in my opinion that is ALL you need.
I'll bet you rock the ess out of that hat, sir!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:31 pm

What?! People around being allowed to like whatever hat they own, regardless of the maker? PREPOSTEROUS!!!

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:33 pm

Stone Him!!!! Stone Him!!!!

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:36 pm

Too true, I didn't mean to trash Bats at all, I was only responding to the notion that ANY Dorfman Pacific hat could stand toe to toe with an Adventurebilt, or Penman hat. That's all. This is afterall the section of the board where issues like this are debated, and it was an intresting idea that I was intrested in debating.

As for the hat itself, I did offer the idea in the last post that with regular wearing and tweeking, that this particular hat may infact look better than in it's original configuration.

With that said however, again I was responding to one claim in particular that this hat was comparable to the hats that Steve, Marc, and John make...and that's impossable.

This forum at one time welcomed debates like this in our quest to the perfect replica of Indiana's fedora. Then we found it, Adventurebilt and Adventurebilt Deluxe gave us many of the first real hats that truly looked and functioned like Indiana Jones' hat. And then Steve and Tony reingenered Herbert Johnson's offering into something that truly looked right and even had the underpinnings of Indy's true hat. Adventurebilt and Adventurebilt Deluxe even placed a hat on Indy himself...the pinnacle of our hobby. But from there, we started in some sort of downward spiral. It would seem that in the last few years we've been working backwards from the top down. The fedora section of this board are filled with reviews, endorsements, and purchase links for lesser hats that we would have originaly dismissed in our search for the best possable Indy hat. Christies hats?!??! Really?! And now a Dorfman Pacific review that claims that it can meet Adventurebilt on it's own terms. John, Steve, and Marc are limited in what they can say to this notion and others on this board due to their status as vendors but I know that to some extent they like me, wonder what is going on with this board? I understand that money for all of us is tight these days, but when we now have screen accurate fedoras to meet most pricepoints, why is it that Christies Hats, Optimos, Dorfman Pacifics and others are still purchased when for the same price or less a better and more accurate hat is available? It just doesn't make any sense.

Johnny

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:57 pm

To be perfectly honest, I was thinking I was going to have to come into this thread one last time & type in ALL CAPS that I like the hat & what is wrong with that. But the last few posts have changes my mind. I now have a big smile on my face.

In regards to pics, here in one that I had taken of me yesterday on the first decent day of the year

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:00 pm

Hollowpond wrote:Just throwing this out there, but if the guy likes it, isn't that OK? he only said that he thought the felt came from Marc's felter, and he may or may not be right on that, but it seems to me that he just likes the hat. I never heard him say that these are super SA hats and everyone should own one. Just that he likes it, and in my opinion that is ALL you need.
I'll bet you rock the ess out of that hat, sir!

Thanx!!!

That is all I was stating-my opinion.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:02 pm

Johnny Fedora wrote:The fedora section of this board are filled with reviews, endorsements, and purchase links for lesser hats that we would have originaly dismissed in our search for the best possable Indy hat. Christies hats?!??!

God forbid somebody might want a less costly alternative to an Adventurebuilt or other custom hat.

Really, the pretentious incredulity in your post is TOO MUCH.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:06 pm

I can truly tell you that that DP or any DP is not using the same felt as Marc.

Jlee, The beaver DP talked about in this thread retail for more than My hats, Steve's and almost as much as Marcs.

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:07 pm

BendingOak wrote:Jlee, The beaver DP talked about in this thread retail for more than My hats, Steve's and almost as much as Marcs.

This hat retails for $500 & Steves hats are currently priced at $650.

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:09 pm

Again, if you like your hat that's awesome.

I owned and wore a Dorfman hat very much like that one for years before receving my Mags HJ. I still have it, and I won't part with it.
I was only addressing the idea that it was "on par with a Penman or Adventurebilt", that's all.

Cheers!

Johnny

p.s. I do think that this portion of the board has changed over the last few years, and I do wonder what precipitated that change.

p.p.s. jlee: What John said.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:13 pm

Bruce Wayne wrote:
BendingOak wrote:Jlee, The beaver DP talked about in this thread retail for more than My hats, Steve's and almost as much as Marcs.
This hat retails for $500 & Steves hats are currently priced at $650.

Yes, you are correct but $500 for that DP is way over priced. If that Dp is worth $500, than my prices are going up.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:14 pm

BendingOak wrote:I can truly tell you that that DP or any DP is not using the same felt as Marc.

Jlee, The beaver DP talked about in this thread retail for more than My hats, Steve's and almost as much as Marcs.

I'm not talking about the DP per se. Johnny Fedora mentioned Christy's and "purchase links for lesser hats" specifically which is what I was responding to (which is why I selected that to quote).

Sure, I think it's a bit crazy to compare even the beaver felt DP to one of yours or Steve's, or Marc's. But the fact of the matter is, not everyone wants or needs a $400-$650 hat. I just don't understand the outright contempt for "lesser hats" that Johnny Fedora put in his last post.

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:14 pm

Bruce Wayne wrote:
BendingOak wrote:Jlee, The beaver DP talked about in this thread retail for more than My hats, Steve's and almost as much as Marcs.
This hat retails for $500 & Steves hats are currently priced at $650.

ADVENTUREBILT HENRY: $290.00

PENMAN CUSTOM INDY: $425.00 for pure beaver or $325.00 for pure rabbit

ADVENTUREBILT CUSTOM RABBIT: $300.00

MAGNOLI HERBERT JOHNSON: $395.00

Johnny

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:22 pm

Johnny Fedora wrote:ADVENTUREBILT CUSTOM RABBIT: $300.00

Steves 100% beaver is $650. The DP in this thread is 100% beaver.

Johnny Fedora · Post by **Johnny Fedora** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:26 pm

I'm done.
You go stand in the rain in your beaver Dorfman Pacific, and I'll go stand in the rain in my beaver Penman and then we'll see who's all wet.

Cheers!
Johnny

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:30 pm

Johnny Fedora wrote:

I'm done.
You go stand in the rain in your beaver Dorfman Pacific, and I'll go stand in the rain in my beaver Penman and then we'll see who's all wet.

Cheers!
Johnny

I have stood in the rain in my beaver Adventurebilt. It tapered the very first day I wore it...

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:37 pm

Come on guys. We are all good people no reason to get hot and heavy.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:49 pm

Then folks on all sides need to calm down.

Yes, this is still a place where folks can review and compare hats. The problem is when members get criticized and pounded for being proud of and enjoying the hats they own simply because it isn't Brand X. Yes, there are FAR more options to chose from all along the scale than a decade ago. That is a wonderful thing. There are options for everyone's budget, taste, and criteria. But what I've seen change in the past few years is people's ability to be happy for those who are showing off their hats, regardless of the brand. That's where the "spiral" started, if you ask me. It seems to have changed in that one is not allowed to enjoy his hat unless it fits in with everyone else's opinion of that hat. Frankly, whether it's made of cardboard or magic felt, if the wearer is pleased with it and gets true enjoyment from it, everyone else's opinions ultimately aren't worth a hill of beans.

Bruce Wayne · Post by **Bruce Wayne** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:51 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote: Frankly, whether it's made of cardboard or magic felt, if the wearer is pleased with it and gets true enjoyment from it, everyone else's opinions ultimately aren't worth a hill of beans.

Is it worth a hill of pasta salad?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:53 pm

It better be #### good pasta salad!