Once Again Concerning Midland Whips

giovanniceleste · Post by **giovanniceleste** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:43 am

good idea louie!!!

imtheflash · Post by **imtheflash** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:11 pm

Thanks guys. The problem we face is that time has passed.

I doubt the bank covers something that technically doesn't exist yet

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:47 pm

Bernie Wojcicki at EM Brand whips has also been a mentor to
Graeme, if I'm remembering correctly. He may be able to help us.

Glad to see so many people taking an interest in this, though I suppose it also means
that many people are getting screwed.

DHW

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:30 pm

imtheflash wrote:its tough because all I can do is ask for a refund. Because unfortunately we live in the states and he's in the UK. and there really isnt much that can be done about it

Yep. Unless he somehow grows a conscience (highly unlikely) we are completely screwed.

classicbullwhips wrote:Hey Guys,

I am sorry to hear about the issues that you are facing. I am not sure if this will work but when you placed the order through paypal, if you used a credit card or bank card to make the payment you could see what they can due for goods/services not recieved. Just an idea hope this possibly can help.

Keep Crackin,
James

PS - Just curious for those who placed orders what was the length of the whips you ordered (just curious )

James,
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, my paypal is funded through direct bank transfer and not a credit card.

However, from now on whenever I order something (like another whip), I WILL be using a credit card. It appears that PayPal does not offer any type of protection.

I thought I was ordering an 8 foot, kip hide whip.
Apparently, I accidentally ordered 8 feet of nothing!

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:33 pm

DarenHenryW wrote:Bernie Wojcicki at EM Brand whips has also been a mentor to
Graeme, if I'm remembering correctly. He may be able to help us.

Glad to see so many people taking an interest in this, though I suppose it also means
that many people are getting screwed.

DHW

Then again, who knows if that is true either.
He probably just ordered Bernie's instructional video.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:34 pm

Paypal does indeed offer protection on purchases, but it has a limit of 45 days to file a complaint.

Regards! Michaelson

imtheflash · Post by **imtheflash** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:43 pm

Michaelson they do NOT order any protection at all for any length if time on made to order products. Only tangible goods that you can hold in your hand at that moment when ordering. Putting it simply your paying on good faith and they don't cover good faith...

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:48 pm

Interesting. That's not what I've experienced using Paypal in watch repairs, which are not tangible either, but others experiences must vary.

Thanks for the info.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:54 pm

I really don't know what to think. I would hate to throw him under the bus and then later to find out he is laid up in a hospital somewhere. Or something bad has happened to his family or something. I don't know about the rest of you guys but I would feel like a real jerk if that turns out to be.

I do find myself scratching my head.

I just don't know.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:55 pm

Michaelson wrote:Interesting. That's not what I've experienced using Paypal in watch repairs, which are not tangible either, but others experiences must vary.

Thanks for the info.

Regards! Michaelson

This is true but the watch is a tangible item.

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:11 pm

BendingOak wrote:I really don't know what to think. I would hate to throw him under the bus and then later to find out he is laid up in a hospital somewhere. Or something bad has happened to his family or something. I don't know about the rest of you guys but I would feel like a real jerk if that turns out to be.

I do find myself scratching my head. I just don't know.

I really appreciate you, John, holding out for the benefit of the doubt. It's very noble. I want to believe that our whips are either on their way, or that they will be soon and that Graeme has a very good reason to be MIA. I really want to be wrong. I hope I have a good reason to apologize. But everyday I come home and there isn't a package waiting for me, my mind turns more and more to the likely possibility that something is definitely wrong, our whips have not been shipped, and yet Graeme has not completely disappeared. As I pointed out, he approved a Facebook friend request two weeks ago, this is after I sent him message asking about the status of my order. I'm relatively certain that he is still accessing his computer, and if that's so, he is capable of accessing our messages and there is then no reason why he cannot explain himself. If he's got a good reason for all the delays, I still have enough patience to hear him out. Whatever his problems, I don't think they are physical, at least not to the point of being unable to type. He's alive, and while he may not be well, I'm willing to believe that he's conscious. If he doesn't feel that he owes us an explanation, he at least owes us our money or our completed orders; but if he's not in a position to do either one, then an explanation should be immediate.

DHW

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:36 pm

I just know that if there is a chance to put my foot in my mouth it will happen.

I just don't know what to hope for. The choices aren't good. Either he's laid out ripples MIA on us. Not good choices.

Eloquent 1 · Post by **Eloquent 1** » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:54 pm

I too have been following this saga and I share the anguish all of you are experiencing. I went through something similar about 12 years ago....it did not end well for me.

That said, does anyone know if Mr. Roberts had any other interests and was/is perhaps a part of some other non-Indy related online groups? The key here would be to get the lines of communication open again....like many of you, the lack of communication is a potential warning sign for me.

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:31 pm

As some of you may know, my 8ft Winrich was stolen at an airport last year, so I thought as I am still currently in the UK, I would perhaps order one from Graeme. I sent him an e-mail enquiring a about a 6ft whip in mid December and didn't hear anything, so I rang him on his mobile, and was told, like others here, that it was the wrong number.

I then PM'd him here on 21st December but the PM is still showing as unread.

Chewie alerted me to a post of his back in July saying that he'd been involved in an accident. I, too, hate to jump to any major conclusions, but Graeme really needs to come on here and explain the situation, as people need to know what is going. Like I have said, I don't want to jump to any conclusions, but an explanation is needed.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:08 pm

BendingOak wrote:
Michaelson wrote:Interesting. That's not what I've experienced using Paypal in watch repairs, which are not tangible either, but others experiences must vary.

Thanks for the info.

Regards! Michaelson

This is true but the watch is a tangible item.

Yeah, but not the repair of the watch. That's nothing but paying for a 'service' which isn't tangible....or at least SHOULDN'T be in my opinion.....but that said.....

I imagine it wouldn't be any different than, say, buying a hat from you, or paying for a clean and reblock.
One is tangible as it involves the purchase of a hat, and the other is only for your time and effort performed on an already owned hat.

Where do they draw the line? Banks and Paypal are funny businesses, and they seem to do whatever THEY decide to do from one case to the next.

In the squirrelly situation I found myself in a while back, the repair shop I was dealing with was located on the West Coast and really messed up a repair of a pocket watch I had sent and refused to make it right, even though it was easy enough to see the foul up on the repair was on their side of the fence. The way Paypal looked at it, the company offered a 1 year full warranty on all repairs, and since they did not honor their own warranty, Paypal looked at it as a 'tangible' situation, and my money was refunded. Why they looked at it that way, I have NO clue.

To finish the story, the company offered to re-do the repair free of charge. I gave them the chance, they made it right, and I STILL sent them the funds to cover the cost, as though I appreciated their offer to do it free, they finally did the work and they deserved to be paid. They were happy, and I was happy.

Just why they didn't just honor the warranty from the get-go and forced me to go through all the hoop jumping of me having to finally file a complaint with PayPal etc. is totally beyond me. I have always wondered if they figured if they stonewalled me long enough, I'd just get frustrated and go away. I didn't. Needless to say I don't use them anymore. I'm still clueless as to why PayPal sided with me, but like I said, they do what they want to do, regardless of how 'we' decipher their information on their sites.

In THIS case, though, whether they do or don't, it's all a moot point now, as the 45 day point of no-return has come and gone long ago.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:23 pm

Oh I agree but I think if you sent the watch or hat for repair and something happened to the watch or hat. They are protected but not the amount you paid for the work.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 3:53 pm

Now THAT makes sense.

I've been scratching my head over that transaction for a while, let me tell you.

Regards! Michaelson

bernie47 · Post by **bernie47** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:40 pm

I've been watching this thread for awhile now and it is with deep regret that I see this type of thing seems to have happened again. In the past ten years this has occurred twice to my knowledge, the first time with Matt Welsby,I think you would remember him Dan, and the second time with a whip maker from Tasmania no less, Troy Horton of Whips Tasmania. It saddens me because it reflects badly on all whip makers. Personally I don't think there is any excuse for this behavior towards your customers , provisions should be made with family if something prevents him answering. I'm 65 and although I don't plan on falling off the perch anytime soon you never know and have fully informed my family on what has to be done in case anything untoward should happen. I looked back through my records and found that I did sell Mr Roberts a set of DVD's on the 9th of July 2009. Apart from that I know nothing else about him. I do have a copy of the address he supplied at the time so if you want to email me at whips2make4u@bigpond.com I will forward it to you.Sorry I could not be of more help.
Kind Regards
Bernie

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:56 pm

bernie47 wrote:I've been watching this thread for awhile now and it is with deep regret that I see this type of thing seems to have happened again. In the past ten years this has occurred twice to my knowledge, the first time with Matt Welsby,I think you would remember him Dan, and the second time with a whip maker from Tasmania no less, Troy Horton of Whips Tasmania. It saddens me because it reflects badly on all whip makers. Personally I don't think there is any excuse for this behavior towards your customers , provisions should be made with family if something prevents him answering. I'm 65 and although I don't plan on falling off the perch anytime soon you never know and have fully informed my family on what has to be done in case anything untoward should happen. I looked back through my records and found that I did sell Mr Roberts a set of DVD's on the 9th of July 2009. Apart from that I know nothing else about him. I do have a copy of the address he supplied at the time so if you want to email me at whips2make4u@bigpond.com I will forward it to you.Sorry I could not be of more help.
Kind Regards
Bernie

Bernie,

Thank you so much for looking in and giving us your two cents. I really appreciate it. (By the way, I got my first kangaroo whip from you!) Here's a pic:

Anyway, again, thanks for the input. It is a horrible shame about Graeme. I'm past the point of thinking that he's dealing with some sort of physical setback. I think, more likely, it's financial, and thus, very likely, emotional and/or psychological. That said, I think he has lied to some folks around here, myself included. There are so many different stories. He told me on Dec. 21st that he already shipped my whips. I can't believe that after 7 weeks of no package, (Penman's in the same boat) and him suddenly not answering emails ever since. I know that he was active on Facebook as recently as Jan. 18th, a week after the last message I sent him where I politely inquired about the status of my order. Will I ever get my whips? Probably not. Will I ever get my $400, I highly, highly doubt it.

I'm very curious to see what Graeme will do or say if he ever resurfaces here. He really seemed like a good guy, and if we're wrong about him, I'm absolutely willing to forgive and/or apologize when or if he comes forward with the right stuff, even if it takes months. I'm still hoping, but my hope diminishes a little more every day.

Here's a question, when was the last time anyone one of us received a whip from Graeme? Before or since his setback around Summertime? He posted a picture of a whip he made for me in October, so I can assume that he did get back on his feet making whips at least for a while, but that whip, along with two others that I paid for, never got to me.

The only whip I ever got from him I received around April of 2010.

So, who got one more recently than that?

Daren

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:01 pm

There's a post on german forum where a guy was told on the 9th Dec that his whip would ship in February. Not sure whether this is useful info or not so take it as it is.

imtheflash · Post by **imtheflash** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:30 am

I was told also that my whip would ship February

IndianaBravo · Post by **IndianaBravo** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:45 pm

Well, here comes the start of a new week. Let´s see if it brings us any news on Graeme´s situation and our pending orders, although if I was a betting man...

Bravo

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 3:55 pm

IndianaBravo wrote:Well, here comes the start of a new week. Let´s see if it brings us any news on Graeme´s situation and our pending orders, although if I was a betting man...

Bravo

. . . I would bet that nothing happens this week.

DHW

tomek9210 · Post by **tomek9210** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:10 pm

What about finding some of his friends at facebook that live in Greame's city? Or a family member?
You could ask them about him if everything is ok.
Just an idea... I don't see any other ones how to help you guys.

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:26 am

I think that's a good idea Tomek. I will try that and ask if they know what Graeme has been up to.

IndianaBravo · Post by **IndianaBravo** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:39 pm

Well here we are nearing the end of the week and, not surprisingly, no new developments. I have come to terms with, for reasons we may never know, that I will not be getting my second whip from Graeme. I´ll just assume that the first one cost me 300 pounds and leave it at that. Very dissapointing. Oh well, spit out a few teeth and get on with life...

Bravo

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:53 pm

IndianaBravo wrote:Well here we are nearing the end of the week and, not surprisingly, no new developments. I have come to terms with, for reasons we may never know, that I will not be getting my second whip from Graeme. I´ll just assume that the first one cost me 300 pounds and leave it at that. Very dissapointing. Oh well, spit out a few teeth and get on with life...

Bravo

I think that pretty much says it all. And yet I can't help but feel that
Graeme will turn up at some point, if not with our whips or our money
but perhaps more stories of setbacks and promises to make things right.

It will be nice to hear from him but only results matter, and to that effect,
I have pretty well given up hope.

Daren Henry

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:37 pm

Daren,

I'm sure he will reappear with promises and excuses.
He'll be around just long enough to sucker some other poor soul out of their money and he'll be off again. Just like last time. Just probably not on this board. I do believe this bridge has been burnt.

Last time, he came back with a story, got a few more orders (by showing off YOUR young Indy whip) then whooosh! Off like a flash.

Thinking back, when my whip wasn't ready within the 30 days promised, I was told it would take 2 more weeks (just enough to put me over the 45 day paypal cut-off). How convenient.

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:24 pm

kwad wrote:Daren,

I'm sure he will reappear with promises and excuses.
He'll be around just long enough to sucker some other poor soul out of their money and he'll be off again. Just like last time. Just probably not on this board. I do believe this bridge has been burnt.

Last time, he came back with a story, got a few more orders (by showing off YOUR young Indy whip) then whooosh! Off like a flash.

Thinking back, when my whip wasn't ready within the 30 days promised, I was told it would take 2 more weeks (just enough to put me over the 45 day paypal cut-off). How convenient.

Even if Graeme is aware of the 45 day rule, most vendors here can't deliver in that time, and even if they claimed to and they're late but were still within 45 days, Paypal doesn't cover handmade goods like whips, hats, etc. In light of that, I doubt that this is Graeme's game. I think he just knows that whip orders take time to fill and that most buyers are patient, polite and understanding, and I think he has taken advantage of that trust.

And that's why I'm so upset: he actually told me in an email that he had just sent the whips, but apologized for "not sending pictures" and I fell for it! That was almost two months ago. I'm sorry, but my whips are not sitting in customs. This man is a liar.

Daren

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:38 pm

So has anybody bothered to contact somebody from his Facebook friends list yet?

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Thu Feb 10, 2011 11:52 pm

WhipDude wrote:So has anybody bothered to contact somebody from his Facebook friends list yet?

I literally just finished writing a message to one of his sisters, Carla Jayne Wendy Roberts.

This is what I wrote:

"Hello, I'm a customer of your brother, Graeme. I don't know if you realize this, but he owes me and a number of other customers a lot of money. Please don't read into this email the wrong way. Either your brother is in some kind of financial trouble, or he is a thief and a liar. I know these are harsh words to read about your brother from a stranger, but if he is alive and well, then he owes me, Daren Wilkerson, an explanation. Go to his website for selling whips, my name is under his testimonials page. I ordered a whip from him almost a year ago and I received it and it is great. I then sent him another $400 for three more whips and he never sent them and refuses to answer his emails, and I am not the only one.

I know that you probably think that this is none of your business, and in all fairness, it isn't, but if you do nothing else, check in with your brother and make sure that everything is all right, because he is apparently not the person that we (me and other whip-cracking Indiana Jones fans--yes, we are a bunch of geeks) thought he was.

If you don't write me back, I understand, but for Graeme's sake, please do what you can to figure out why he has turned his back on me and at least four other paying customers that I know of.

Thank you,
Sincerely,
Daren Henry Wilkerson

Castro Valley, Ca

Again, this is NOT a joke.

Write me back if you'd like me to answer any specific questions so that you know that I am not putting you on.

DHW"

I then added this message separately as a PS:

"If he has been seriously hurt or is physically unable to write to us or complete his whip orders, please let us know. I don't like thinking of your brother as a thief, but if he isn't hurt so bad that he can't type, we would like to know why he is ignoring us.

If he is in some serious trouble, again, fill us in so that we can stop assuming the wrong things about his status and well being and wish him well for us.

Sincerely and honestly,

Daren"

If any of you are facebook friends with him, try writing her a similar message. I found her on his page because she wrote on his wall, "I LOVE MY BIG BRO LOTS XXXX", and then his other sister wrote, "And me

)" Don't know if this is supposed to be some sort of well wishing in regards to something that may be wrong with him or if its just a general shout out, hard to tell.

You can't write to the other sister, but Carla's page isn't limited to friends only so it would seem that she will get our messages. Mine is showing as being "sent".

It's worth a try, and she's more likely to believe it if she gets a number of similar messages.

Daren

WhipDude · Post by **WhipDude** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:05 am

Thanks for the update. Maybe it would be a good thing for others to send a message as well. I'd say wait and see if you get a reply within the next couple of days though.

Lets hope that goes well.

Post by **Dr. Nebraska S.** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 1:38 am

Daren, I might recommend for security reasons that you may not want to include all of your contact information on a general post here. It's not a violation of any rule here or anything like that--I'm just making a recommendation.

Best Wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:24 am

Nebraska Schulte wrote:Daren, I might recommend for security reasons that you may not want to include all of your contact information on a general post here. It's not a violation of any rule here or anything like that--I'm just making a recommendation.

Best Wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

Quite right. Taken care of. Thanks!

Daren

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 4:36 pm

DarenHenryW wrote:
kwad wrote:Daren,

I'm sure he will reappear with promises and excuses.
He'll be around just long enough to sucker some other poor soul out of their money and he'll be off again. Just like last time. Just probably not on this board. I do believe this bridge has been burnt.

Last time, he came back with a story, got a few more orders (by showing off YOUR young Indy whip) then whooosh! Off like a flash.

Thinking back, when my whip wasn't ready within the 30 days promised, I was told it would take 2 more weeks (just enough to put me over the 45 day paypal cut-off). How convenient.
Even if Graeme is aware of the 45 day rule, most vendors here can't deliver in that time, and even if they claimed to and they're late but were still within 45 days, Paypal doesn't cover handmade goods like whips, hats, etc. In light of that, I doubt that this is Graeme's game. I think he just knows that whip orders take time to fill and that most buyers are patient, polite and understanding, and I think he has taken advantage of that trust.

And that's why I'm so upset: he actually told me in an email that he had just sent the whips, but apologized for "not sending pictures" and I fell for it! That was almost two months ago. I'm sorry, but my whips are not sitting in customs. This man is a liar.

Daren

That's true. I had forgotten about the non-coverage of made to order goods.

However, I fully agree with the rest of your statement. In particular, the very last sentence "This man is a liar".

What gets me is that he ALREADY made one of the whips you ordered, showed it off, then didn't bother to send it to you! It was already paid for (as was the postage), so why not send it?

The first time he did his little disappearing act and the "Where's Graeme" thread was posted, I received an unsolicited PM from another member here (who's identity will remain secret).
In his message, he basically told me not to do business with this person as he was not trustworthy. When I asked this member to elaborate, he simply told me that he had dealings with Midland whips in the past which went bad in a hurry, and after much time ended in a full refund (lucky him!).

So apparently, we are not the first of his unhappy customers.

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:55 pm

kwad wrote:
DarenHenryW wrote:
kwad wrote:Daren,

I'm sure he will reappear with promises and excuses.
He'll be around just long enough to sucker some other poor soul out of their money and he'll be off again. Just like last time. Just probably not on this board. I do believe this bridge has been burnt.

Last time, he came back with a story, got a few more orders (by showing off YOUR young Indy whip) then whooosh! Off like a flash.

Thinking back, when my whip wasn't ready within the 30 days promised, I was told it would take 2 more weeks (just enough to put me over the 45 day paypal cut-off). How convenient.
Even if Graeme is aware of the 45 day rule, most vendors here can't deliver in that time, and even if they claimed to and they're late but were still within 45 days, Paypal doesn't cover handmade goods like whips, hats, etc. In light of that, I doubt that this is Graeme's game. I think he just knows that whip orders take time to fill and that most buyers are patient, polite and understanding, and I think he has taken advantage of that trust.

And that's why I'm so upset: he actually told me in an email that he had just sent the whips, but apologized for "not sending pictures" and I fell for it! That was almost two months ago. I'm sorry, but my whips are not sitting in customs. This man is a liar.

Daren
That's true. I had forgotten about the non-coverage of made to order goods.

However, I fully agree with the rest of your statement. In particular, the very last sentence "This man is a liar".

What gets me is that he ALREADY made one of the whips you ordered, showed it off, then didn't bother to send it to you! It was already paid for (as was the postage), so why not send it?

The first time he did his little disappearing act and the "Where's Graeme" thread was posted, I received an unsolicited PM from another member here (who's identity will remain secret).
In his message, he basically told me not to do business with this person as he was not trustworthy. When I asked this member to elaborate, he simply told me that he had dealings with Midland whips in the past which went bad in a hurry, and after much time ended in a full refund (lucky him!).

So apparently, we are not the first of his unhappy customers.

That is VERY interesting, KWAD, about the fellow unsatisfied COW member. As to the fact that Graeme finished my whip, showed it off, and then didn't send it. You are almost right. I ordered THREE whips, the one in the pictures (apparently), then one identical to it with a blue handle, then a 6' in natural kip (to the match the one and only whip I actually did receive from Graeme last March). I don't think he actually made the other two, which is why the order never actually got sent. I think he made just the one as bait for the rest of you and to make me believe he was nearly completion of the entire order.

I never saw pics of the other two, for which he made it a point to apologize because he "had a lot going on."

DHW

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:43 pm

Graeme Roberts just became Facebook friends with whip artist Chris Camp, maybe in the last week or two. I just wrote Chris a long message explaining our situation, and asking him if he thinks he might be able to influence Graeme to get it together.

DHW

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:26 am

bernie47 wrote:I've been watching this thread for awhile now and it is with deep regret that I see this type of thing seems to have happened again. In the past ten years this has occurred twice to my knowledge, the first time with Matt Welsby,I think you would remember him Dan, and the second time with a whip maker from Tasmania no less, Troy Horton of Whips Tasmania. It saddens me because it reflects badly on all whip makers. Personally I don't think there is any excuse for this behavior towards your customers , provisions should be made with family if something prevents him answering. I'm 65 and although I don't plan on falling off the perch anytime soon you never know and have fully informed my family on what has to be done in case anything untoward should happen.

Bernie, well said. I remember the situation with Matt Welsby all too well and I believe Troy made some bad life choices that landed him in some trouble with the law and left many of his paid customers with out whips.

Daren, et el. Just to bring you up to speed on where Indy Gear stands on this situation. Graeme / G-Roberts has been sent a warning and has had ample time to reply, He has not. His last log on to the forum is still December 21st 2010. His vendor status here at Indy Gear/Club Obi-Wan has now been terminated. We will however leave his membership active, at least for the time being. While normally a vendor would be banned for this type of unscrupulous activity, in this case we agree that it would best to allow a line of communication to remain open should he show up in the near future. In the mean time though, I do hope efforts to contact him/get through to him via his family & friends on face book prove successful and that you are all able to either get the whips you ordered or refunds.

Dan

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:13 pm

I sent a message on Facebook to his girlfriend about a week ago, but haven't gotten a reply. What's up with this??

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:27 am

And a couple of us wrote to his sister. She even said that she would talk to him. But let's be honest with ourselves: blood is thicker than water. Neither his sisters nor his girlfriend are going to do anything about this. I mean, either they already know that he's in trouble and don't care to tell us about it, or they think we are a bunch jerk-offs and they aren't going to put us before him.

I think that's that, my friends. Graeme is alive and accepting friend requests on facebook. Thus, he is consciously ignoring us. As I said above, he's in no coma. He's a liar, he's taken our money, and I think I'm ready to seriously go the mattresses. At this point, I don't want his whips. I'd be more than happy to get my money back, though I'm very doubtful that I will, thus, I'm ready for an all out smear campaign. My only hope at this point is that this man never sells another whip for the rest of his life.

I'm going to write a form letter and send it to every whip enthusiast I know. I invite you all to do the same.

Daren Henry W

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:57 am

My war has begun!

I hope that Graeme Roberts never sells another whip for the rest of his life, let alone takes anyone's money!

Daren Henry Wilkerson

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:39 pm

The fox has shown himself!

He promises to explain: "Hi there. I'm sure your pretty angry with me, i would be too. I need to explain myself to everyone and sort this out. I will email you when i'm home later."

This is the entire content of a private Facebook message.

So . . . We'll see!

Stay tuned. Or don't. I'm still willing to bet that it is just more B.S.

Still and all, I'm glad I got a response from the guy.

DHW

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:39 pm

Well even if he explains himself I'd take advantage of his return policy: http://midlandwhips.com/payment.php
which says you can cancel for a full refund any time. By getting a full refund you won't have to worry about anymore BS and you won't have to deal with it anymore, provided he honors his return policy...which he should even is he has a good reason for disappearing.

Louie

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:45 pm

If he refuses a refund, then it's false advertising and fraud, straight and simple, seeing as he offers the refund on his web page. I'd take a screen shot of that.

Payment
I only except Paypal but if you don't have a Paypal account, no problem. I can send you a request for payment through Paypal and all you do is put in your card details safely and securely. I take payment up front and you can cancel at any time and have a full refund.

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:57 pm

I was trying to think of good excuses for delivering a whip almost a year late and not communicating with customers about it. Seriously he's making a bullwhip not digging a tunnel under a city, there's really no good excuse to be a year late.

Here's what I came up with for excuses:

Medical Emergency: The hospital had a no email policy (but was OK with facebook)

Quality of materials: Couldn't find English Kip...in England

Quality of whips: Got a sudden case of plaiting Amneasia and forgot how to make whips

Not enough profit: Was selling to cheap and wasn't making enough on the whips, so he had to wait for leather to be on sale...and it hasn't gone on sale yet.

Postal Service: It was mailed...without insurance or tracking and doesn't have his customs receipt anymore to prove he mailed it.

Lack of Internet: Was in Egypt when they turned off the internet

I'm very curious to read what his reason is.

Louie

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:32 pm

DarenHenryW wrote:The fox has shown himself!

He promises to explain: "Hi there. I'm sure your pretty angry with me, i would be too. I need to explain myself to everyone and sort this out. I will email you when i'm home later."

This is the entire content of a private Facebook message.

So . . . We'll see!

Stay tuned. Or don't. I'm still willing to bet that it is just more B.S.

Still and all, I'm glad I got a response from the guy.

DHW

Amazing, he took the time to respond to you, but didn't bother to answer you!
What? Did he run out of B.S. to spew?

I'm sure that he has been SOOOOOO busy making and shipping whips that he didn't have time to give you an explanation.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:36 pm

It's probably because Daren hunted him down through other channels.

louiefoxx · Post by **louiefoxx** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:43 pm

Getting his sister involved was a good idea, it wasn't her problem, but I bet that helped. It's easy to get away with being shifty in when your close friends and family don't know you are being shifty, but once they know things change...unless they already knew you were prone to shifty-ness.

Louie

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:25 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:It's probably because Daren hunted him down through other channels.

True.
But, regardless of the channel of communication, Graeme could have provided his answer/reason/excuse at the time he decided to make contact.

He contacted Daren just to tell him that he doesn't have time to tell him anything.

Daren,

As he has promised to email later with his reasons, I'm assuming he has email access.
If he does happen to respond to you by email, please let me know which email address he uses.
I've tried each of his addresses, and he has NEVER responded to any email I've ever sent.
When he has contacted me, it has been through PM here at COW.

IndianaBravo · Post by **IndianaBravo** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:28 pm

Well, at least he has surfaced which is no mean feat. Let´s see what he has to say for himself