Raiders jacket length zipped/unzipped

[Holt]

Hey,

Over the years many people have contacted me about specs and about how long the raiders jacket is. So, I decided to make this little thread to show you in pictures.

Over the years many people have been saying that the radiers jacket was a longer jacket and I can understand why they see it like that...but give you my opinion? it's really not. It's a short jacket, the shortest Indy jacket of them all in fact. (Confrimed by Nowaks' copy.)The jacket hangs just below the beltline. yes, there are many scenes where the jacket looks longer but in those scenes Indy usually stands abit bent forward.etc and the jacket may appear longer.


I remember talking to Peter about this too. He said it could not be long due the whip and holtser. So, they ahd to make it short for easy access. The jacket could not get caught up in the gear Indy had hanging on his belt, so the short style and the pleat/vent were created.

so, here in pictures and illustration is how I think the raiders jacket should be.

just a couple inches bellow the belt when unzipped and when the jacket is zipped it automatically raises alittle and the jacket bottom ends almost on the belt.













I am pretty conviced that the length is short. Maby it's longer then my eyes are telling me? I dunno for sure. but what I do know is that the Nowak is a short jacket as well and by looking at the scenes it appears to be just this short. so all added up, Raiders? short not long.


-H

[Ian]

Thanks for that Holt, it's had me scratching my noodle.

I agree with what you say. I guess the fact that Indy's trousers / belt was worn higher than people would these days maybe could give the illusion that it was longer that it actually was. If I wear my jeans higher up on my waist, it gives the illusion of another couple of inches on my jacket's length.

I noticed as well that in some scenes, the jacket seems to be longer in the front and shorter on the back - Like you said - probably when he's hunched over or the jacket has ridden over his shoulders slightly.

Ian

[Kevin Anderson]

Fascinating! Wonderful observations, Captain Obvious! Your work here is done!

[Baldwyn]

Just some other points. If you watch the Imam scene, Indy PULLS his trousers higher, so the jacket appears longer. Secondly, the "falling back" cut of the Raiders jacket means that when it sits where it wants to, the front ends closer to the belt line. But when the jacket is pulled forward (the collar sits lower, and so it can be pulled higher) the jacket appears long. Here's a good example of how far forward the jacket can sit. Notice the shoulder seam line. I don't think many jacket offerings can do this.

[Holt]

Good point's.

oh, my wested jacket can o this. this was one of the features I really wanted in the jacket

[Kevin Anderson]

Slide forward? ...Any jacket can do this...

[Holt]

I think he means having that shoulder seam drop so far down on the upper chest.

like this,

[Holt]

allright,

cleaned out and open for business.

[gladd96]

I have no doubt that the Raiders jacket is a fairly short cut. What is hard to determine is exactly where it sits in relation to Ford's body. My general observation is that Ford has fairly long legs in relation to an average man. I'm unsure how period correct the costume trousers are but if they are belted at the navel then we would be looking at a jacket that falls to about where a modern belt line would be. If I was to guess I'd say the Raiders jacket would be along the lines of the US Army's Eisenhower cut jacket. I have a CS jacket cut to Ford's specs and it is pretty dang short and from what I gather his Raiders jacket was a bit shorter. I need to rewatch Raiders and see if there is a good shot oh him standing up strait wearing the jacket. All the images that come to mind are ones where he isn't. I wonder if this is intentional to hide the high-water jacket that was necessary to allow the other costume accessories to function. After all if not for these technical issues we'd all be wearing A-2s.

[Forrest For the Trees]

I think he means having that shoulder seam drop so far down on the upper chest.

like this,

Dang, Holt, the shape of that collar is spot on.

[jlhampton]

indiana holt,
if i may ask, which jacket are you modeling for your pics and what is its size?

-jlhampton

[Holt]

this one

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36422" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Indiego Jones]

I said it before...this jacket is just AMAZING.
Great work on those specs.

Proportions are very important.
Just to have an idea regarding this, could you tell us how tall are you, and the measurements back & stormflap of the jacket?
Thanks.-

[Holt]

Thanks.

sure, I'm 6,2'

length of back is 24,75''. Original it was 25.5'' but after a good soak twice it shrank alittle. it doesn't matter cuz it's more screen accurate now lenghtwise then what it was when I got it.

front stormflap top at the seam where the collar meets and down is 23,5''

[Holt]

oh, btw, forgot to mention. the one picture where I stand next to Fords picture is not the ''Holt goat'' but a ''Holt'' specced DB lambskin. I dont have it here now, its back at westeds barn for a touch up.

[Indiego Jones]

Thanks! Tall guy you are.

oh, btw, forgot to mention. the one picture where I stand next to Fords picture is not the ''Holt goat'' but a ''Holt'' specced DB lambskin. I dont have it here now, its back at westeds barn for a touch up.

But the specs are the same, aren't ?

[Holt]

almost, it has the sleeve seam line up with the yoke. they messed up with that, so thats the difference, but I have learned to live with it. its no biggie really. other then that it has everything the goat has. check out that long collar on it.

when I get it back I'll do a review on it.

[Indiego Jones]

almost, it has the sleeve seam line up with the yoke. they messed up with that, so thats the difference, but I have learned to live with it. its no biggie really. other then that it has everything the goat has. check out that long collar on it.

when I get it back I'll do a review on it.

Yeah, the longer collar is one important key to the look.

Looking foward to the review on the DB lamb.
Regards.-

[Ian]

I guess you've gotta be careful when asking about other people's specs. 25" length on a jacket wouldn't even reach my belt line, but I'm only 5' 11 1/2", so shorter than Holt. I require a longer jacket. Mine are 27" and I still think they need to be longer by and inch.

Ian

[Tibor]

Good point Ian. There are those Mr. Incredible builds out there that need something different. I'm convinced that getting the right fit is just about the most important aspect of the Indy jacket - more than collars, pockets, gussets, pleats, zippers and so on.

[CM]

Even with all this, the jacket to my eyes doesn't look short. It doens't appear long either, but an appropriate length at 2 inches over the beltline. HF's pants are not period, so I don't buy the argument that they are high in the seat. They are worn like any tailored suit pants. And in that one shot with "Marion" the jacket is pulled up high so this isn't a good reference.

I think that anyone ordering a leather jacket, whether it be an Indy or an Aero Highwayman, would want one to come 2 inches over the beltline of suit pants (not low-rise jeans).

What we often see here with fan jackets (especially the earlier ones of Wings) are jackets which are way too long, at 4 inches over the beltline.

Just my 2 cents.

[Heyjude7]

Hey All.. havent posted in a while. saw a good post by dear friend Holt and couldnt resist posting. I have had my TN Raiders in 747 for over a year now and its nice and broken in ( viewtopic.php?t=40605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) and while my specs were a lil off from the original it has now shrunk down to the right fit and when i saw right fit i mean what " I " see on the big screen. the jacket slides back off m y shoulders ( as it appears in the movie) when i wear it open and sits at 2 inches below my belt line. and when i tug it forward.. it rides up in the back and looks long in the front and as it appears in the Iman house scene. The Jacket is "short" for me but a perfecty fitting jacket. i constantly ask my wife "does this jacket look to short?" and her response everytime is
" NO! it fits just right! " Its hard to get use to the fit of the jacket and the short look when most jackets are made longer nowadays.
What im tryin to say is that i totally agree with Holt on the length!
Jude

[Keith Taylor]

I guess the fact that Indy's trousers / belt was worn higher than people would these days maybe could give the illusion that it was longer that it actually was.

This is the crux of the problem. To be street wearable these days you need a far from screen accurate long jacket to account for the lower rise of most modern day trousers. This problem is easily fixed, though, by wearing pants where they should be worn, hanging at the natural waist rather than from the hips with half the ### hanging out (god, I hate modern clothing). Indy's jacket was clearly short, paired with trousers belted just below the navel (and, at the rear, in the small of the back). If you're looking for accuracy you need higher rise trousers and shirts in a slim fit to prevent blousing. While it's not at all screen accurate it's a good idea to invest in braces (button rather than clip on, for Jebus's sake) and a pair of trousers with a fishtail back.