Christies disappointment

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:49 am

For my birthday my wife ordered me a grey Christies Adventurer through Hornet hats.
I had already been in touch to be sure I'd order the right size by giving them my head measurement of 57.4 cm - I queried whether a 58 or 59 - to allow for shrinkage - would be best. I was assured a 58 would do.
Hornet's website stated to expect a 10 working day delivery time.
when it was noticeably late I emailed Hornet for an explanation.
Apologies were returned but the explanation, that Christies had fallen behind with orders wasn't satisfactory - I emailed again a week later to remind them their estimated delivery was simply untrue.
I was informed they had now changed the estimate on the website - it's currently reading 13 days.
Well, the hat arrived today; 25 working days - five weeks - after ordering.
Though the size label states it is a 58 cm, it is too small, not just snug, but actually too tight to wear. It won't even begin to fit over my hat block which is exactly 57.5 cm round.
I was prepared for it to have a slight taper [which I would have fixed if it went over my hat block] but I was not prepared for it to have asymmetrical taper and be made of felt of uneven thickness. The crown is nearly down to half the thickness of the brim and none of it is as thick as the sample felt I was sent before ordering. This unevenness makes giving it a smart symmetrical bash impossible.
In short, it goes back for a refund and I order from Akubra instead.

djd · Post by **djd** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:52 am

What a shame! On the plus side I can say nothing but good things about Akubras customer service

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:46 am

djd wrote:What a shame! On the plus side I can say nothing but good things about Akubras customer service

yes I should have gone with my first instinct to use Akubra again, but I thought Hornets were worth a try. I foolishly believed that as they are just 50 not 12,000 miles away I'd get a quicker service.

DanielJones · Post by **DanielJones** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 12:27 pm

Yeah, and customer service is everything. The product could be off, but if the customer service is stellar, then you can conceive of giving them a second chance and return the hat for an up sizing. Being that they are only 50 miles away on the same land mass you would think that they could have been proactive and let you know in advance that there may be a delay. For me if the customer service fails me, the company doesn't get my business again. Hope to see your Akubra soon.

Cheers!

Dan

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 3:55 pm

I was toying with the idea of getting a gray Christies as well - but I think I will just save and get myself another Henry.

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:01 pm

Wow Enigma,

Asymetrical, uneven, too small and too slow. That is some list of dissapointments!
I really hope you get your money back on that one.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:13 pm

Disconcerting to hear that they're slipping up! I really like my Christy's for what it is.

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:09 pm

It may just be that I was the wrong person in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I'm not risking a replacement. To thieir credit they have already arranged the refund.

fifthchamber · Post by **fifthchamber** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:16 pm

Wow...
Speechless...I've heard of bad customer service, sure, it happens, but all that on top of a bad product? I can't start to fathom how angry that would make me...
I recently ordered an Akubra from Hatsdirect, and I have to be honest, the service was the best I have ever received from anyone, online or not...It took three days (including the weekend, so one working day) to deliver the hat to me..Ordered on Friday, it shipped by last post, and arrved at lunchtime Monday..Three days from Aus. to Japan (Tokyo)...Absolutely stunning service..Even if the hat was bad, I'd still be conviced to try again with a re-send simply because it was so easy to get...
I feel customer service slips first for most companies...I've met two that have stellar service, follow on emails, updates on delays (if any) and same day shipping and tracking..And I use those companies as much as I can..A little help goes a long way...
I'd always recommend Akubra for service, and since the products are great too, I can't see any downsides at all to using them..
(Oh, and it's nice to start posting here, good to join in at last!)..
All the best..
Ben

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:57 pm

Wow. That's got to be the complete opposite of my experience with Hornet's. I am shocked.

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 3:52 am

There was plenty of apologetic communication, just none that was actually informative.

Arch Stanton · Post by **Arch Stanton** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:02 am

So let me get this straight... not only do you have to order a half size larger, but actually a ANOTHER size and a half larger?

I keep looking around and Christy's seems like the best price for this little project I'm working on, plus they have the most diverse color palette I've seen for what I'm doing. It would involve getting multiple hats of the same color as well. One for underwater(I know sacrilege!) that I KNOW will be destroyed and things of that nature. So, I am usually a 59.5... does that mean I go with a 61? It couldn't even fit on your head? That is worrisome.

With Akubra, I go with 60, and they usually sort of "flop" on at first, but over a short bit of time and wear fit my skull perfectly.

And speaking of Akubras... hot diggity dog! I must second or third or fourth all the folks up there who said they have the BEST customer service. They have never once let me down yet. I wish I could go with them for my little short film I'm working on, but like I said, the variety of different colors I might need and that 30 bucks I save on each hat prohibits it.

What a #### shame to hear about this. And aren't Christy's supposed to be basically the same hat as a Herbert Johnson, just with a different name stamped on the inside? I noticed that in lovemyfedora's thread that he has pics of his HJ, and it even seems to have the same craptastic stitching on the bow(no offence to you, lovemyfedora, kind sir

).

And I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, enigmata, but I must ask, if they are roughly 50 miles away from you then why did you not just go in person to their place of business and get one in your hands rather than rely on the post? Even if you have no legs or an automobile I'm sure it would have been less hassle-free to hitch a ride with a band of Gypsies.

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 12:06 pm

Arch Stanton wrote:And I'm sorry to hear about your troubles, enigmata, but I must ask, if they are roughly 50 miles away from you then why did you not just go in person to their place of business and get one in your hands rather than rely on the post?

It's one of those bizarre things that going to Hornet's shop from Cambridge, by public transport, would costs me more in time and money than the difference I save by ordering from Australia now.
I dare say that the size issue would have been solved by a personal visit, but I would still have had to wait for the hat to be made.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:07 pm

enigmata_wood wrote:For my birthday my wife ordered me a grey Christies Adventurer through Hornet hats.
I had already been in touch to be sure I'd order the right size by giving them my head measurement of 57.4 cm - I queried whether a 58 or 59 - to allow for shrinkage - would be best. I was assured a 58 would do.
Hornet's website stated to expect a 10 working day delivery time.
when it was noticeably late I emailed Hornet for an explanation.
Apologies were returned but the explanation, that Christies had fallen behind with orders wasn't satisfactory - I emailed again a week later to remind them their estimated delivery was simply untrue.
I was informed they had now changed the estimate on the website - it's currently reading 13 days.
Well, the hat arrived today; 25 working days - five weeks - after ordering.
Though the size label states it is a 58 cm, it is too small, not just snug, but actually too tight to wear. It won't even begin to fit over my hat block which is exactly 57.5 cm round.
I was prepared for it to have a slight taper [which I would have fixed if it went over my hat block] but I was not prepared for it to have asymmetrical taper and be made of felt of uneven thickness. The crown is nearly down to half the thickness of the brim and none of it is as thick as the sample felt I was sent before ordering. This unevenness makes giving it a smart symmetrical bash impossible.
In short, it goes back for a refund and I order from Akubra instead.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience but I wanted to make a comment on the part of your statement maybe to help out some. Most swatch samples sent out to customers are pre- pounced and shouldn't be used for thickness of what your hat will be like. Even the color will be ever so slightly lighter. Depending on how much of a pounce job the felt gets. Most factory hats won't be that different but custom hand made will.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:47 pm

Arch Stanton wrote:So let me get this straight... not only do you have to order a half size larger, but actually a ANOTHER size and a half larger?

From my own experience and others I've read, enigmata wood's size issues (and the rest of it) seems to be uncharacteristic. I have been told by some that a slight size bump might be best if you dislike a snug fit. But this horror story is just...

I really would demand they fix the issue, free, and quickly.

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:40 am

In fairness, Hornet Hats emailed me today to say they had received the returned hat and agreed with me on the size issue. They will be taking it up with Christies.
Considering Christies' reputation I hope for all hat fans sake's it was a one-off error due to a Christmas rush and not the thin edge of the wedge between quality and turnover.
My guess: To meet demand a trainee was put into service too soon.

TheSavoryTrim · Post by **TheSavoryTrim** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:50 am

Arch Stanton wrote:Even if you have no legs or an automobile I'm sure it would have been less hassle-free to hitch a ride with a band of Gypsies.

That just made me laugh. Really hard.

I'm sorry to hear about your disappointing hat experience

.

HOWEVER, the positive thing about posts like these is it educates us hat noobs about the different companies out there.

djd · Post by **djd** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:13 am

A band of gypsies or English public transport? It's a tough call.... It is much easier to order from the other side of the planet (or a hatter on a different planet??) than to travel from Cambridge to central London

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:55 pm

I'll take the Experience over Band of Gypsies any day...

Dave

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:15 am

DR Ulloa wrote:I'll take the Experience over Band of Gypsies any day...

Dave

Unless it's the Gypsy Kings. Then it's OK.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:07 pm

Different genre, but I love the Gypsy Kings too. Since I mentioned Jimi Hendrix earlier, he was often seen wearing a fedora, though uncreased, usually. I never saw a picture of him wearing a fedora before he moved to London. Is it possible he bought his hat from HJ or Christy's or Loch? Would make sense.

Dave

achi11es · Post by **achi11es** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:23 am

DR, I can ask if it was Lock since I'll be going there to buy my wife a cloche hat for up coming birthday. I've been there pleanty of times and have seen a lot of their head prints from those that have had bowlers and topper made (Chaplin, Churchill, Larry Hagman, Bob Hope - a lot of names). Their visitors book, signed by customers, is very impressive too: Depp, Keira Knightly, Lloyd Honeyghan,Ray Winston, Mos Deff, Yoko Ono to name thos ethat I remember. I'm sure Hendrix would have popped in since he lived a 10 minute walk from Locks...though he would have passed HJ on his way down too.

Lock do have excellent customer care too...considering all the big names that go there, you walk in an you are treated as one. They showed me Lord Nelson's hat that they have on display, and even dug up archives on Oscar Wildes history with the company: his last three hats were a Bowler, Silk Opera Hat and a Velvet Fedora - all of which cost £3 (which is funny since, due to inflation, that equates to £300 for all three - which won't buy you a bowler alone today - so they were cheaper back then!), a bill he never settled since he was arrested soon after delivery. It's a shame that Lock's quality of product doesn't match the price tag.

My experience with Hornets has been very pleasant to date, but this is me going to their 3 shops in Kensington to buy vintage hats. I've not bothered with Christies modern hats...though this product line Hornets are trying to limit to online purchasing - the guys at the shops have very little to do with the website. But it is worth going to the shops if anyone gets a chance, vintage clothes and hat alore. I recently bought a Poirot-esque gunmental grey homburg in near mint condition.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:49 am

Yeah, that would be great. I'd love to know where Jimi got his hats as I'm a huge fan of his.

Dave

Indiana Greg · Post by **Indiana Greg** » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:33 pm

achi11es wrote:...

My experience with Hornets has been very pleasant to date, but this is me going to their 3 shops in Kensington to buy vintage hats. I've not bothered with Christies modern hats...though this product line Hornets are trying to limit to online purchasing - the guys at the shops have very little to do with the website. But it is worth going to the shops if anyone gets a chance, vintage clothes and hat alore. I recently bought a Poirot-esque gunmental grey homburg in near mint condition.

I have purchased four hats via the Internet & never received less than stellar products or service, even though' I'm just a hillbilly from east Tennessee (kind of' like Northern England or The Maritimes for those who might wonder. Back behind beyond.). I will return to Hornets without doubt.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 1:24 am

The thing with Christy's is that you have to be very specific about what you want, such as brim dimensions, etc. The last time I ordered from them, I asked for the straightest block shape possible, ribbon tacked down to the brim break, lower crown and they delivered.

Arch Stanton · Post by **Arch Stanton** » Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:50 am

So is there some kind of definite consensus on what to order from Christy's? Brim dimension-wise? I mean if I'm going for an Indy-style hat. I read through all the pages of the Christy's thread, but all I accrued from it was confusion. I'm about to order 6 hats, and I really need to know before I bite the bullet. Crown height? Ribbon color? What have you chaps decided upon?

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:54 am

If you want a great Indy hat and not wanting to worry about specs, I would say splurge on an Akubra FedIV - or better yet, a handmade rabbit fur felt from John Penman.
I just ordered one of Christies Adventurers in Black so if I like it, I will order a brown and maybe gray one as well.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:30 pm

Arch Stanton wrote:So is there some kind of definite consensus on what to order from Christy's? Brim dimension-wise? I mean if I'm going for an Indy-style hat. I read through all the pages of the Christy's thread, but all I accrued from it was confusion. I'm about to order 6 hats, and I really need to know before I bite the bullet. Crown height? Ribbon color? What have you chaps decided upon?

I've ordered a hat from nearly every vendor in the forum and I have to say that you get what you pay for. Take it from Steve, by his own admission, he spent thousands of dollars trying to find that just right fedora, that coveted lid that you only see on the big screen. Disgruntled, he started making them. You now have the advantage avoiling the trial and error process of not spending thousands of dollars looking for that just right hat. Instead, why not buy directly from the guy who has learned much from that trial and error, and picked up a trade in the process? You can simply buy once and buy straight from the guy. The AB Raiders Rabbit is one of only two hats that I have ever received that is hands down the best hat I've ever owned. The other is a beaver hat from Johnny ballgame!

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:42 pm

Great Scott! Are you back from your latest excavation? Pictures...I WANT PICTURES!

Dave

Pyramid Jones · Post by **Pyramid Jones** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:26 pm

Hey I want pics too.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:01 am

DR Ulloa wrote:Great Scott! Are you back from your latest excavation? Pictures...I WANT PICTURES!

Dave

...the excavation was GREAT!

I have to tell you guys that I was a part of the front team this year (2 weeks), that involved mainly set-up, so that eveyone else could vertually hit the ground running and simply begin to dig. However, I did manage to slip across the boarder of Jordan and into Jerusalem for a couple of days, taking a tour of the old city. Got some good pics too!

Stay tuned...same bat-time, same bat-channel....

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:27 pm

Awesome, TS. Congrats! Can't wait to see the pics.

kwad, that's a beautiful Gretsch in your avatar. I've always wanted a White Falcon. Good to see a fellow guitarist on these boards.

Dave

sofianeomari · Post by **sofianeomari** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:52 pm

I bought a hat at home, I have not had a problem

By cons I ordered a light sable and yet there on the label may be marked sand is there a error on the part of the person who wrote it? Or maybe it was he felt deceived!

Regard

Sofiane

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:07 pm

DR Ulloa wrote:kwad, that's a beautiful Gretsch in your avatar. I've always wanted a White Falcon. Good to see a fellow guitarist on these boards.

Dave

You'd probably be jealous of my original '62 Tennessean, then.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:04 am

Jealous is an understatement. There should be an eleventh commandment that reads "thow shalt not covet thy neighbour's guitars." Is love to play that baby. Let's see if I can make you jealous...how about a '69 gold top Gibson Les Paul Deluxe? My crowning jewel. Similar to the one Pete played in the early Who stuff. Now, if you have a true original Marshall JTM 45, I would hire a body guard!

Dave

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:08 am

Nope. I'm not a Les Paul man, myself. I prefer a Telecaster, but that's just my taste. But how's this back at you: I also own an original '65 Fender Deluxe Reverb (with the paperwork, even) and a '50s-early '60s Gretsch 6156 amp!

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:57 am

Texan Scott wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:So is there some kind of definite consensus on what to order from Christy's? Brim dimension-wise? I mean if I'm going for an Indy-style hat. I read through all the pages of the Christy's thread, but all I accrued from it was confusion. I'm about to order 6 hats, and I really need to know before I bite the bullet. Crown height? Ribbon color? What have you chaps decided upon?
I've ordered a hat from nearly every vendor in the forum and I have to say that you get what you pay for. Take it from Steve, by his own admission, he spent thousands of dollars trying to find that just right fedora, that coveted lid that you only see on the big screen. Disgruntled, he started making them. You now have the advantage avoiling the trial and error process of not spending thousands of dollars looking for that just right hat. Instead, why not buy directly from the guy who has learned much from that trial and error, and picked up a trade in the process? You can simply buy once and buy straight from the guy. The AB Raiders Rabbit is one of only two hats that I have ever received that is hands down the best hat I've ever owned. The other is a beaver hat from Johnny ballgame!

Why thanks my friend! I did spend right at 7500 bucks buying hats years ago, looking for the best Raiders fedora. But, the offerings today are so much better than when I was spending all of that money. Lots of great Indy hats out there today.

This felt thickness issue is just a variable you will see in hats. The old hatters actually made their hats so that the hat got thicker as you moved from top of crown to brim. As I learned to make hats, I found out that this was not a design, but rather just what happens to some felt when you stretch it over a block. The top stretches out more than the bottom, so its thinner on the top. Generally though, if the hat is alot thinner on the top, the hat will shrink faster than one that is basically the same thickenes top to bottom. Happy New Years everyone! Fedora

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:38 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:Nope. I'm not a Les Paul man, myself. I prefer a Telecaster, but that's just my taste. But how's this back at you: I also own an original '65 Fender Deluxe Reverb (with the paperwork, even) and a '50s-early '60s Gretsch 6156 amp!

I'm raiding your house.

Dave

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:33 pm

Go ahead, try it!

Anyway, what was this thread about again?

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:10 pm

I got my black Christys in the mail but was dissapointed that the fit was too tight, so I had to sent it back for a replacement

I was quite impressed by how smooth and nice the felt is as well as how gorgeous the liner is.
I was less than enthusiastic about the bow which looked terrible. After sending the hat back, I emailed specific instructions, with a photo attachment, stating how I would like the bow to look.
Now all I have to do is get excited about getting the hat all over again...

Indiana Greg · Post by **Indiana Greg** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:10 pm

Chewbacca Jones wrote:Wow. That's got to be the complete opposite of my experience with Hornet's. I am shocked.

Mine as well. Sorry to hear of such poor product. I ordered THREE Adventures about eighteen months ago and they were, all three, spot on & lovely. This report is distressing, as is the increasing turn around time. Doggone shame. My experience w/ Hornets, as Chewies, has been great.

kwad · Post by **kwad** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:12 am

binkmeisterRick wrote:Nope. I'm not a Les Paul man, myself. I prefer a Telecaster, but that's just my taste. But how's this back at you: I also own an original '65 Fender Deluxe Reverb (with the paperwork, even) and a '50s-early '60s Gretsch 6156 amp!

Twang-Meister Bink,
Tele and Gretsch. Two great tastes that taste great together!

I love them Tennesean's with the Hilo-Trons and sealed tops. Is it yours?
I can't tell from the picture, but, is that a '62-'63 model, or a new production 6119-HT? (Judging by the color, it looks to be an original) Either way, they are both great guitars.

j2m · Post by **j2m** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:09 pm

Got myself a Christies adventurer a few months ago, the customer service actually good. The hat quality not so...

It really is a size too small, and do not put in the rain, that will make it shrink even more

The color is nice, the dimensions seem good as well, the ribbon is really horrible, not SA at all and looks like its been thrown on it with no care at all.
The liner is not too bad, its maybe the thing I liked the most about the adventurer. It is really hard to crease properly though, I just could not get the back brim to the way I wanted, no matter what I tried (steam...) anyway, in all fairness for the price it is a ok hat, but you get what you pay for

I since then got a Henry from AB, wich is amazing!

still wish I got that first and didn't waste the extra buck on a christies

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:29 pm

Entry level, I'd start at the Fed, Steele & Jones, Henry, Penman & AB.

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:01 pm

j2m wrote:Got myself a Christies adventurer a few months ago, the customer service actually good. The hat quality not so...
It really is a size too small, and do not put in the rain, that will make it shrink even more
The color is nice, the dimensions seem good as well, the ribbon is really horrible, not SA at all and looks like its been thrown on it with no care at all.
The liner is not too bad, its maybe the thing I liked the most about the adventurer. It is really hard to crease properly though, I just could not get the back brim to the way I wanted, no matter what I tried (steam...) anyway, in all fairness for the price it is a ok hat, but you get what you pay for
I since then got a Henry from AB, wich is amazing! still wish I got that first and didn't waste the extra buck on a christies

What did you do with the Christy's?

j2m · Post by **j2m** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 6:10 am

RaidersBash wrote:
j2m wrote:Got myself a Christies adventurer a few months ago, the customer service actually good. The hat quality not so...
It really is a size too small, and do not put in the rain, that will make it shrink even more
The color is nice, the dimensions seem good as well, the ribbon is really horrible, not SA at all and looks like its been thrown on it with no care at all.
The liner is not too bad, its maybe the thing I liked the most about the adventurer. It is really hard to crease properly though, I just could not get the back brim to the way I wanted, no matter what I tried (steam...) anyway, in all fairness for the price it is a ok hat, but you get what you pay for
I since then got a Henry from AB, wich is amazing! still wish I got that first and didn't waste the extra buck on a christies
What did you do with the Christy's?

Still have it, am working on making it fit again, a bit of stretching...

Am thinking on experimenting with dust and earth to make it look used out... am slowly working on changing the bash to a ROTLA one, (did it first into a CS style but am just curious how it will look with the raiders bash) and then the long goal time is trying a SOC look... Its gonna be my play with hat

will see how much abuse it can take

But since I got the Henry, the christy doesn't get much love anymore, I know not really fair

Cheers JM

garytelecastor · Post by **garytelecastor** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:43 am

binkmeisterRick wrote:Nope. I'm not a Les Paul man, myself. I prefer a Telecaster, but that's just my taste. But how's this back at you: I also own an original '65 Fender Deluxe Reverb (with the paperwork, even) and a '50s-early '60s Gretsch 6156 amp!

Just to let you know if you didn't already.
There is an all Tele forum that has some very
cool players on the site, including Redd Volkaert
Brent Mason, Forrest Lee Jr, etc
TDPRI.