End of a Legacy - Really?

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:19 am

Can't help but be suspicious of this...

Travis

HWaltonJonesJr.Phd · Post by **HWaltonJonesJr.Phd** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:30 am

I can only assume some very tough decisions are being made at TNO and I am happy to see the doors stay open for now. I also have enough regards for humanity to respect the family and not accuse them of using this tragedy as a sales pitch.

HWJJ

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:54 am

HWaltonJonesJr.Phd wrote:I can only assume some very tough decisions are being made at TNO and I am happy to see the doors stay open for now. I also have enough regards for humanity to respect the family and not accuse them of using this tragedy as a sales pitch.

HWJJ

How much did those jackets go up again?

Travis

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:00 am

And if it was a matter of closing the doors, they could just stop taking orders couldn't they? Heck, Marc did it for a little while with AB deluxe! This is not about Big Tony. Just figuring out whats going on with this particular vendor. Like them, love them, or leave them alone, you gotta admit communication is dodgy. I never thought I would see the day that Wested is generating the least amount of controversy. I guess because we all pretty much agree on their quality...and I'll leave that at that.

Travis

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:51 am

I don't know about anyone else but it's easy to Monday morning quarterback. I can't tell you how many times people call me, or e-mail me about my shipping choices or my packaging, etc,etc. Telling me what I should do. When I explain it to them they go. Oh, sorry didn't think of that. I gotta tell you , it's gets old fast. Maybe it would be a good idea not to assume thing and give some the benefit of the doubt.

It might be clear cut for those standing on the outside looking in but it's another thing when you are in the middle trying to fly the ship.

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:15 pm

Hollowpond wrote:And if it was a matter of closing the doors, they could just stop taking orders couldn't they? Heck, Marc did it for a little while with AB deluxe! This is not about Big Tony. Travis

That's my thought. I can see the decision for Riley to keep the doors open to fill any outstanding orders that had been started with Tony. That would be to protect the memory of TNO as a man and a company. If the business is too much for Riley, et al and they have decided it's better to close rather than limp along, then why this "last chance to order" announcement? Riley had to know it was likely to generate a flood of orders. Imagine if Steve Delk posted a message saying, "I'm all done, but if you place your order now, I'll make you a hat." He'd go back to the waiting list he generated in 2007!

And, when I contacted Riley back in April when he announced he was going to keep TNO open, I was quoted a price of $950 for a jacket, at least $200 more than I'm aware of any TNO customer paying Tony. Now with the "last chance" prices are $1250? Has Riley's overhead gone up that much in six months?

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:16 pm

BendingOak wrote:I don't know about anyone else but it's easy to Monday morning quarterback. I can't tell you how many times people call me, or e-mail me about my shipping choices or my packaging, etc,etc. Telling me what I should do. When I explain it to them they go. Oh, sorry didn't think of that. I gotta tell you , it's gets old fast. Maybe it would be a good idea not to assume thing and give some the benefit of the doubt.

It might be clear cut for those standing on the outside looking in but it's another thing when you are in the middle trying to fly the ship.

I just have issues with the communication. It seems that some people get return emails and some do not, that is sort of dodgy and I think a legitimate question.
John, those who question your methods (IMHO) have no standing to do so. I haven't seen a negative review of your products or services (I know I can't offer one

) I daresay that NO ONE has sent you an email/phone call/pm and not had it returned.
Like I said, when communication is open to some and not all, that is when I have an issue.

Travis

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:19 pm

The announcement was made on September 17th. What IS the final date then?

Hey guys (and gals?),

Sorry to post this, but Tony Nowak Originals is scheduled to close its doors forever........
Maria (Tony's widow) and I have had numerous long discussions, and we can not see a viable future in leather.
SO this is a last call for jackets, please DON'T hesitate to contact me using NOWAKPADAWAN@AOL.COM to get the ball rolling.

THANK YOU ALL!!!

Riley

Tossing adjectives at each other and putting personal opinions aside, closings don't go along open ended. Either they're closing, or they're not. This question is reasonable.

Riley, how about giving us a final date, even if it's approximate. Interested folks would like to know what kind of timetable you're talking about, especially if they're trying to save up funds to place an order.

Bear in mind, this was posted here without anyone asking. It was an 'out of the blue' announcement, and then 'we' were left to try and figure out what was going on.

If you're just holding the doors open as long as the orders come in, then you're not closing. ALL businesses operate on that hope.

If you can't give a date, we may as well remove that 'End of a Legacy' thread, as it does indeed give an impression that this was just a marketing ploy to get in more orders and jacking up the price.

Please advise.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:47 pm

I can tell you this was not a ploy. If my word means anything. I would love to find out that Riley changes his mind and stay open.

Just a wild guess here but would you be in a hurry to answer people that call you a used car salesmen? I know I wouldn't.

You can't compare me and Riley. I started my company and set it up my way. Riley got this tossed in his lap and was asked to handle it. It also came at one of the worst times in anyones life.

Remember, this is not the only customer base he has. He handles beggar order than me, he has much more customers and has people working for him. My biz goes down, I stay home and sit watching TV and get fat. His biz goes down people loose their jobs.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:52 pm

To answer your first question, your word means a lot, John.

.....but to answer your second question, if you had posted that announcement out of left field, then refused to reply to potential customers that could be bringing you lieterally thousands of dollars to your doorstep that want to know what the heck the plan is, you're dang right I'd be answering that question, and soon.

We don't know Riley. We never have. He's never been a participant on this site, and everything that has ever been said or done by him has been through 2nd and 3rd parties. Trust is earned, and I don't care who you are. That's the way of business.

In your case, John, you have EARNED the trust of this site, and did it the hard way. You WORKED for it.

Riley's product speaks for itself....but he is a non-entity when it comes to direct participation with the membership of this forum. So, yes, your word carries weight. You EARNED that respect.... but Riley needs to come back to the party he announced and give up some more details.

Regards! Michaelson

P.S. Since I see you went back and edited your post, John, one again, keep in mind, HE announced he was closing. No one asked him. Give a date. It's only fair.

A quick personal experience: This reminds me of a hubcap/scrap metal business in my home town that announced in our local newspaper that due to the owner suddenly passing away, they were going out of business. Everything was on sale and rock bottom prices. It was a huge, old family business that had a LOT of employees, and the entire business was suddenly tossed into his wife's and two sons laps with no warning what so ever.

They didn't close their doors until 25 years later, and only because the city condemned their building because they wanted to build a parking and shopping mall on the site. If that hadn't occurred, they'd probably be there still. They still had the 'going out of business' sign in the window when the wrecking ball pulled out front. A photo of that window and the wrecking equipment showed up on the front page of the paper that week.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:01 pm

Thanks for the kind words M. It means a lot what my word is. I give you my words that this is not a ploy. If you want to talk more feel free to call me. I don't wish to light the fire on this one but I don't like seeing a young man who is trying his hardest to do the right thing by his Family, friends, and customers be called a used salesmen and the likes.

That's all I will say in public at this point.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:13 pm

Clarification is what is needed from Riley at this time.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:08 pm

Tundrarider wrote:Riley and his family own a thriving private business.

Just as folks here have the freedom to describe Tony and Riley as gougers and liars ("Blacklisted" thread), Riley has the freedom to make and sell his jackets to whomever he chooses at whatever price he wishes.

Tony was never dependant upon remaining in the good graces of this website and I doubt Riley is either. I hear a lot of talk and opinions about "what Riley should do." Regardless of the popular opinion of this site, Riley, (and George, Steven and Harrison for that matter) are probably going to continue to live their lives on their terms, as they see fit, without consulting the sages of this website.

I give Riley a lot of credit for even remaining a member here after reading some of the things that have been said about him and his dad.

Though I may be a voice in the wilderness, I want Riley to know that not everyone here is of the same mind.

Michael

I hope everyone reads this post because there is truth here and I think many can get their answers here as well.

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:20 pm

Tundrarider wrote:Riley and his family own a thriving private business.

Just as folks here have the freedom to describe Tony and Riley as gougers and liars ("Blacklisted" thread), Riley has the freedom to make and sell his jackets to whomever he chooses at whatever price he wishes.

Tony was never dependant upon remaining in the good graces of this website and I doubt Riley is either. I hear a lot of talk and opinions about "what Riley should do." Regardless of the popular opinion of this site, Riley, (and George, Steven and Harrison for that matter) are probably going to continue to live their lives on their terms, as they see fit, without consulting the sages of this website.

I give Riley a lot of credit for even remaining a member here after reading some of the things that have been said about him and his dad.

Though I may be a voice in the wilderness, I want Riley to know that not everyone here is of the same mind.

Michael

TheExit148 · Post by **TheExit148** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:25 pm

Tundrarider wrote:Riley and his family own a thriving private business.

Just as folks here have the freedom to describe Tony and Riley as gougers and liars ("Blacklisted" thread), Riley has the freedom to make and sell his jackets to whomever he chooses at whatever price he wishes.

Tony was never dependant upon remaining in the good graces of this website and I doubt Riley is either. I hear a lot of talk and opinions about "what Riley should do." Regardless of the popular opinion of this site, Riley, (and George, Steven and Harrison for that matter) are probably going to continue to live their lives on their terms, as they see fit, without consulting the sages of this website.

I give Riley a lot of credit for even remaining a member here after reading some of the things that have been said about him and his dad.

Though I may be a voice in the wilderness, I want Riley to know that not everyone here is of the same mind.

Michael

No better way to put it.

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:32 pm

...can't be arsed, not interested, not ones bag.....

Ian

Ian · Post by **Ian** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:51 pm

Aye... Not that I'm relevant enough to be any target of the last post, but I'm not in anyone's corner regarding this. I am sceptical though, just by nature.

Ian

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:56 pm

I think Riley can and would fight his own battles as you call it but he doesn't post here much. Why would he. Go back to tundraiders post. It's clear to me.

Rick Deckard · Post by **Rick Deckard** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:21 pm

BendingOak wrote:I think Riley can and would fight his own battles as you call it but he doesn't post here much. Why would he. Go back to tundraiders post. It's clear to me.

Why would Riley post here? How about b/c he announced to COW the closing of TNO and that this was the LAST chance to get a jacket mad by TNO, thereby driving demand. It also happened to coincide with the jackets rocketing in price to $1,250.00 or whatever. If Riley is going to solicit COW for business then he ought to be responsive to his customer base.

I don't know Riley, but certainly a logical inference can be made from the above. Some people like to believe that everyone they meet is kind, honest, and morally upstanding. Others are realists. It's something I've seen time and again.

I have no dog in this fight as I would never pay anyone over $1,000 for a leather jacket. I could. I have the money to do so, but in the end it's just a leather jacket - and no, I'm not paraphrasing Tony. It really is just a jacket. But if you're in the business of selling jackets, they you have certain business responsibilities that you should live up to. Coming clean about whether you're closing, when you're closing, if you're not sure whether you're closing, and whether this really is a LAST CALL, is not unreasonable - IMO.

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Sun Oct 24, 2010 3:37 pm

Without turning this into a Battle Royale I'm going to lock this one up. With that said Riley can post a message on the boards stating when the last day for orders will be. That should clear up the confusion, because I'm sure we'd all like to know what's going on.

-TS

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:24 pm

Posted by Tex Scott in the 'Raiders jacket' thread.

I asked him that very question via email on the 18th and he said:

"As for the last day at the factory, that all depends on how may orders I am getting. I won't shut down when people are still buying jackets."

Apparently this is the answer.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:47 pm

All right, this thread is being reopened so we can hopefully find out what is going on from Riley himself and not through another party. Riley stated his shop was closing awhile back and since then I’m sure he has had a good deal of orders come through from guys that want a Nowak. I see no fault in that whatsoever. But we are here to help members find gear. That’s kind of the reason it’s called Indygear, if you look at the menu… it talks about the gear… and where to get it… and what fits for what movie.

Countless man hours have been worked by our members and our staff here to help everyone, vendors included, to get what they need and not be taken by scam artists (I’m not calling Riley one, I’m stating why we do what we do and why we do it).

That said, this is being opened again, for everyone here, to find out what is going on and hopefully generate a response by the Vendor.

Why? Because he stated his shop was closing and that generated a buzz. Of which, a lot of hard earned money was spent by some of our members here, in hope of getting an object before it became unobtainable. He also came onboard when an ebay item was being sold with his companies name behind it. He knows about the site and knows a lot of us are his customers. He knows where to come to clear up the air about what is, in fact, happening to his shop.

Please don’t think we want Riley’s shop to close, far from it. We wish him resounding success but we do want our members to know the truth. $1,200 is a lot of money for anyone to spend on a jacket, we’re trying to help everyone out by giving you the truth of what is happening. As a potential buyer you deserve this. I’m turning this thread back over to everyone here.

Hopefully, we can find out the truth.

-TS

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:31 pm

Back at'cha!

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:55 pm

I doubt you are going to provoke a respounce from this vendor by call him a used car salesmen. Just a guess on my part.

that_dog · Post by **that_dog** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:59 pm

"I won't shut down when people are still buying jackets" is completely contrary to the announced closure of the business.

Imagine Ford announcing that it will be closing its doors when people stop ordering cars. Or Boeing when people stop ordering airplanes. Or Microsoft when people stop ordering software.

It doesn't make any sense.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:03 pm

I hope he has changed his mind. That would be a good thing, would it not?

I guess there has never been a vendor close his doors here and then came back and re-opened them?

that_dog · Post by **that_dog** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:08 pm

To the best of my knowledge, no vendor has announced a closure while both inviting a last spate of orders and jacking up prices, only to change course a few weeks later.

I don't know Riley and won't pretend to know his motives or thought process, but from a purely objective standpoint it looks odd, and not entirely above board. An announced closure has the potential to both decrease supply and increase demand, which under economics 101 tells us that prices will go up. Now, is that price increase a feature, or a bug?

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:09 pm

You're absolutely right John, if he was to stay open it would be great. If his shop is going strong, good for him. But it still doesn't answer the question, is it? We just want to know.

As far as him being called names, yes it was done by some but not all. Any future customers he gets should know if it's a one time deal or if the doors are staying open for the foreseeable future. That way they don't jump the gun and pawn off half of what they own so they can get what they want before it's too late.

I'm happy that you got such a great jacket but we do deserve to know. As a site I know many of our members have supplied that company with a lot of money. We're not asking for anything more than clarification. Is that too much to ask? And if the store is to remain open are the "going-out-of-business" prices staying, are they the new prices?

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:25 pm

BendingOak wrote:I doubt you are going to provoke a respounce from this vendor by call him a used car salesmen. Just a guess on my part.

Good grief, it was just a joke! Maybe one in poor taste, but what do you expect? You get what you pay for!

BendingOak wrote: I guess there has never been a vendor close his doors here and then came back and re-opened them?

I don't think there has been a vendor who has announced that they were gonna close their doors and then jacked the price of his/her product up by $300 and then decided to stay open and then,

oops, just happened to forget to mention to us that they had decided that they were not gonna close. When Marc decided to stop taking orders for a while, he didn't jack up prices. He also projected an exact date he would stop closing, and then announced when he was up for business again. Maybe thats the problem...I am comparing the jacket vendors to the incredibly high standards set by our hat vendors. You, Steve, Marc, and LLS should hold a weekend getaway for all Indy gear vendors, and SHOW THEM HOW TO DO IT RIGHT!!!! You guys are awesome!

This is the opposite of awesome.

Travis

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:26 pm

Let's let time do its work. Time has a way of proving things.

singsingjohnny · Post by **singsingjohnny** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:44 pm

Bottom line, people are still paying $1,250 for a jacket, no one is forcing them to. If one feels like there is something shady going on and doesn't want to order from Riley, fine, then there are plenty of other places to buy an Indy jacket. Heck, I have one on order right now with Magnoli.

Is it our right to know if Riley is actually closing down? I don't think it is. People can reads these threads and they can decide for themselves whether or not to order from him. Are you put off by Riley's lack of contact or that he raised his prices after announcing he is closing up shop? Great, then don't place an order.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:50 pm

They're paying $1250 because they were told the doors were closing and this was the last and ONLY time to get an example of Tony Nowaks legacy.

That's a totally different scenario than you ordering something from Magnoli, who HASN'T posted a closure notice on this site.

If folks are to still believe the first sentence, then they are somehow able to justify that price....but if that's NOT the case, then they need that corrected information so they can make the determination of what to buy or NOT to buy.

That's what this site was created to help people do, and that is to help members get as correct information as humanly possible in order to be able to make an educated decision on a purchase.

At the moment we do not have that information from this vendor. That's why folks are asking, as they're making decisions and spending money based on old information that they're just now finding out isn't correct.

That's why clarification is being requested directly from the vendor.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:59 pm

I just got of the phone with Riley. He is in fact closing his doors but he is keeping them opn until he finishes all the orders that people have placed. He wants to honor those orders. He can't put an exact date when the shop will close down but it will in fact close.

I'm sorry but you are not going to get a reply from Riley in this thread. My word will have to do.

HP, I know it was a joke but it was following a not to funny comment and it was in bad taste. I expect more from you than that my friend. I know you better than that. I don't hold it against you but do expect more from you. You are a good man from what I can tell from our talks and like you very much but sometimes there is a time and place.

I was not talking about Marc. There have been a couple who did close their doors and re-open, I'm not going to tag them in public so, don't even ask.

If you don't like the price don't buy a jacket. I didn't like the price increase either but I really like my jacket better than I like that money sitting in my pocket.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:10 pm

Is he still accepting orders?

Regards! Michaelson

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:10 pm

_ wrote:So, the original thread is locked so I need to post this as new...

I'm asking when Riley is closing shop. After all the "hoopla" ya know? The answer I'm getting is "when there's a lull."

LMAO!!!!!! The oldest sales bluff in the book - the good old "goin outa business" ploy? Lord have mercy, but we (editorial "we") really are just as stupid as "they" think we are...

_, did the "When there's a lull" response come directly from Riley?

that_dog · Post by **that_dog** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:18 pm

Michaelson wrote:Is he still accepting orders?

Regards! Michaelson

And if so, is there a deadline by which they must be placed?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:22 pm

Michaelson wrote:Is he still accepting orders?

Regards! Michaelson

I didn't have time to ask him that. Thats on me, I had to answer a call from a supplier. I would suggest that anyone wants a jacket still to contact him directly using his e-mail nowakpadawan@aol.com

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:24 pm

Thanks John.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:25 pm

Michaelson wrote:Thanks!

Regards! Michaelson

No problem. I will do what I can to help.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:30 pm

I, too, am aware of a few vendors who closed their doors, only to reopen them at a later date.....but this is the first I've come across that continued to take new orders and money during that transition period.

It can't be both ways. You either stop taking new orders, honor the orders on hand, and then close the books....or you remain open on a day to day basis and continue business.

We're getting mixed messages here. One has been told 'we're closing as soon as the orders on hand are honored', and another 'we're staying open as long as orders continue to come in', and both sources word are trustworthy.

There-in lies the confusion.

Regards! Michaelson

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:53 pm

Just guessing here but I'm assuming that supplies like leather will play a bigger factor than a date. Again, if anyone is interested, I would contact him directly.

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:13 pm

_ wrote:So, the original thread is locked so I need to post this as new...

I'm asking when Riley is closing shop. After all the "hoopla" ya know? The answer I'm getting is "when there's a lull."

LMAO!!!!!! The oldest sales bluff in the book - the good old "goin outa business" ploy? Lord have mercy, but we (editorial "we") really are just as stupid as "they" think we are...

Once again, _, did the "When there's a lull" response come directly from Riley?

Kevin Anderson · Post by **Kevin Anderson** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:41 pm

Thanks, that's all I wanted to know. As usual, no need to be so defensive. Just a simple question.

Bemo · Post by **Bemo** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:30 pm

Business is ultimately about relationships, and relationships are about communication.

Since this horse is ready to be made into a jacket, perhaps locking this down unless/untill Mr. Barrie wishes to respond might be wise?

Post by **Tennessee Smith** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:34 pm

He knows where the sites at.

It was opened to get an answer from Riley. If he doesn't want to let us know personally then that's fine.

We'll at least know that.

Nothing else needs to be said by anyone on the matter.

-TS

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:47 pm

Agreed. Even Sarge came back here to interact with his customer base directly after the initial Wings blowup and can be found frequently answering questions on the boards. It's not that difficult. Riley has a choice on whether or not to communicate as such. I'm sure he is well aware of this thread and of his choice on whether or not to comment directly.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:34 am

You know something. I had a lot of less stress fighting fire.I first was very sad when Tony died because we lost a very good human being. Now I'm even more sad on what has gone on in the past few months. I think I'm taking a few days off and drink my liver away as much as I can.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:06 am

BendingOak wrote:You know something. I had a lot of less stress fighting fire.I first was very sad when Tony died because we lost a very good human being. Now I'm even more sad on what has gone on in the past few months. I think I'm taking a few days off and drink my liver away as much as I can.

John, I think what you need to do, rather than drink, is take a step back, and don't take this subject so personal. Also, remove Tony and his passing from the equation completely because, at this point, it's not about him.

Second, view the situation from the POV of somebody who does not know Riley and can not get any replies from him. What would you think? I may not be trying to get a Nowak, but that gives me a nice, neutral stance here. I see something going on here that I've seen several times before; A lone (or a few) loyal customer who always gets great communication vs. a bunch of people left in the dark. It never bodes well.

Since I have no reason to doubt anyone posting in this thread, including you John, I have to assume that everyone is telling the truth. If that is so, then that means Riley will not give answers here or by email or by phone. Except to you and maybe one or two others. So, if everyone in this conversation is being truthful, the only possible way to reconcile it all depends on a man who refuses to (or can't) do so. And as long as that remains so, we can only operate and comment based on what we see... even if it's an incomplete picture.

That's the picture as seen from the outside. So, please, my friend, stick to Pepto and deep breathing exercises.

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:23 am

I just wanted to jump in here quick. I don't want to take sides right now because as far as I know there really shouldn't be sides until Riley at least responds to the questions that are being asked of him in this thread. Until then it's speculation.

Really, the reason I am jumping in here is because I want to know one thing that I might have missed somewhere. When did all of Riley's jackets go up in price to $1250??? Last I checked that was for shrunken lamb jackets and the Mutt jacket at least. I thought the CS and some of the other leathers were still in the $900 range? I'm just curious.

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:37 am

As an accounting professor I had used to say, "I think of myself as a pretty strong capitalist." That being the case, Riley can charge whatever he thinks the market will bear for his jackets.

But, in a capitalistic set-up, it is assumed all parties are privy to the same open information so that all parties can weigh said information and make a rational decision about purchasing.

Riley started the thread announcing "last call, TNO is closing the doors forever." In doing so he provided information for people to make a decision. Now, however, it seems he is going to keep the doors open as long as orders are coming in. Well, what does that mean? Does it mean as long as there are jackets in the pipeline he'll stay open? Does that mean if 2 days or 3 days or 7 days go by without a new order he'll close the doors? No one knows.

If Riley has decided to keep TNO open "for good," though that's not what he's said in any of the direct quotes that have been attributed to him, then he needs to update with that information. To say, "I'm going out of business" to create a sense of urgency for customers, and then to change his mind without sharing is, from a capitalistic perspective, unethical business practices.

And, yes, people can contact Riley directly to ask these questions, however, Riley’s track record on responding has not been so great.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff