Philosophical Jacket Question - choose wisely

[IndyOriginal]

Recently I feel that I've been slowly sunk down the path to the dark side - meaning I'm becoming obsessed with Indy jackets (something I've been resisting for many years, apparently to no avail). I am by no means a jacket expert, and I only have 2 Indy jackets (Wested lamb circa 1998-99? and US wings CE purchased earlier this year).

Basically, in looking over jacket threads and vendor sites for more hours than is healthy this fall, a strange thought occurred to me, and I wanted to reach out and see if anyone else has ever thought of this, or if I'm already too far gone down the path of 'jacket-induced mental disorders.' So here is my strange idea, or thought experiment, if you will –

If Indy entered into a jacket shop in the 1930s that just so happened to offer all of the jackets available to us today, which would he choose?

I guess what I’m getting at is that instead of looking at the procurement of jackets purely from an SA angle (as the screen-used hero jackets were often “pieces of $%*#” according to our most reliable sources), I feel that I’d rather take the jacket that most embodies all characteristics of a ‘true’ Indy jacket if he were actually a real figure.

This admittedly curious thought experiment leads to some other questions that I've always had as well, such as "what is the average lifetime of one of his jackets?" and "does he try to get the exact same type of jacket each time?" etc.

Of course, from the context of what we see on screen, we know that he occasionally loses jackets (ROLA), and the jackets vary a bit over time etc., but I still think this little imagined 'scenario' brings up some interesting ideas and conclusions.

So, what do you guys think? Which jacket(s) would he take? Does his choice in jackets evolve over time, explaining the differences between the lightweight, torn-up ROLA, and the thicker, more formidable CS?

And please, by all means, if you think that I have simply stepped outside of the bounds of this being a 'healthy hobby' into the realm of 'you need help,' do let me know

[Michaelson]

It isn't any worse than any other discussion based on nothing but pure conjecture, so nothing 'dark path' about the question in my opinion.

Building on your primary question:

If Indy entered into a jacket shop in the 1930s that just so happened to offer all of the jackets available to us today, which would he choose?

To start out with, did he have a clothing allowance from his university to replace any field damaged/used clothing and materials he wore? Doubtful during the Depression. That said, he would have gone to any military surplus and hardware store for his clothing and gear to keep things 'on the cheap' and within his personal budget.

Leather jackets were sold just about everywhere in that timeperiod, anywhere from Sears to your local hardware store on any city street corner. They were considering a working mans coat/jacket, and were sold in locations LIKE that. That said, it's also doubtful he would have had anything 'custom' made considering the time period he was in....once again, the Great Depression. Money was tight for everyone. He would have purchased items that were easily replaced, and of good value. If he WERE reimbursed by his university, he'd have to justify the cost of replacement to the auditor, so once again 'cheap and hearty' comes to the forefront.

The notion of his 'lucky hat' or like items didn't even enter the equation until Last Crusade, when Lucas was trying to 'flesh out' the character, so if you keep yourself separated from that 'soulful history', reality would tell you that he would get items that were cheap, robust, and easy to replace. That would include his jacket.

Everything would have more than likely been made in the U. S. when it came to the clothing, as there was very little imported to the States along those lines during the 1930's. Cowhide and horsehide would have been the standard offering of the time period.

Cowhide was plentiful, and horsehide abundant due to the fact the U. S. Calvary was slowly replacing the horse with mechanized units, so the horses were being turned into leather, dogfood and glue, and in HUGE quantities during this decade of U. S. history. Goatskin was around, as were pigskin jackets, but they were considered exotics at the time. Available, but limited to certain stores and locations.

So, it wouldn't be so much of 'which would he choose', but what would have even been available at the time? The info above kind of narrows the field, doesn't it?

That's kind of the point...you really CAN'T put today's offerings in a 1930's shop for him to choose from. The choice was limited, and moving away from that reality just makes it an exercise in futility. You may as well include 'Gor-Tex' jackets in the selection list.

As I said, just all conjecture on my part, of course, but based on personal historical research of the timeperiod.

Regards! Michaelson

[IndyOriginal]

Wow Michaelson! I'm not alone

There' s more information in your reply than I'd hoped to get out of the whole thread! However, I must press....if it was one jacket from any that we could get, which do you think he'd choose?

From looking at your gorgeous Expo in goat...might I suggest that you've already made your choice?

Regardless, thanks for the quick and informative reply.

[ron521]

To answer the question, remember that Indy is NOT going to be concerned with "screen accuracy". If you aren't concerned with screen accuracy, many jacket makers are not really contenders, as their products simply are not tough enough for real world Indy style abuse, OR they cost significantly more than other jackets which are equally tough.

Indy's primary criteria would be "how much punishment will this take, does this allow sufficient freedom of movement for the kind of situations I sometimes find myself in, and how much does it cost".

Based on what I've read on this forum, the widespread (although not unanimous) opinion seems to be that the toughest jackets come from US Wings, and Gibson & Barnes.

I'd say that if Indy felt that a US Wings gave enough range of movement, he'd chose one of those over an Expedition or anything else due to the much better cost/value ratio.

However, if he felt he needed the extra range of motion afforded by the Expedition's slightly different construction, he might spend the extra money as what is required to meet his needs.

I can't picture Indy spending the extra money for a Tony Nowak product, fine garment that it is.
Cost is in Wested's favor, and in Todds/Coyles but perhaps toughness is not.
Magnoli is reputed to be good, but not inexpensive and there are probably other jackets equally tough which cost less.

And of course, if I actually OWNED any of these others, my opinion would possibly be different.

The character of Indy is based in part on a real life paleontologist, Roy Chapman Andrews. Roy led numerous expeditions into the Gobi Desert during the 30's searching for fossils of early humans. He instead found the first dinosaur eggs. He also had run-ins with bandits, did some espionage for the U.S. government, and was very popular with women.

It would be interesting to know what kind of jacket Roy wore.

His biography, "Dragon Hunter" is fascinating.

[CM]

Well to begin with he wouldn't have worn a leather jacket in most of the places we've seen him in (locations being either too hot or too cold for leather which is a poor insulator). Probably just a shirt or a hard wearing duck cotton jacket in the jungle.

The A1 jacket was around in those days. If the real Indy ever wore leather anywhere, he may have found a cheap deal on one of these.

[Tibor]

Whew...all true.

I think he'd pick one of the goatskin jackets- flexible but tough... Either Nowak or Expedition.

There, that was easy

[Michaelson]

Yep,ron, if it were available on a large scale, I think goatskin would have been the choice, simply due to it's strength, water resistance, light weight, and longevity. If kept in good repair, he wouldn't NEED to replace it very often, unless it was lost or stolen.

That would indeed be my vote. G&B.

CM makes a great point, but if you look at the 'historic records', explorers of that time period WERE at least going into the desert wearing leather jackets. It wasn't comfortable, as we well know, but they didn't HAVE anything better to protect them from sandstorms or abrasive weather like our synthetics of today, so that's why leather jackets and coats were sold any place clothing was sold to working men.

Jungle, on the other hand? Cotton all the way!

Regards! Michaelson

[IndyOriginal]

Seems we have two votes for G&B Goat, one vote for Nowak Goat...Great selections imo.

[Dr. Nebraska S.]

I'm curious--would leather jackets of the 1930's have been in the more precise number sizes (e.g. 48R)? Or would they have been in the more generic sizes (e.g. XL)? My guess would be the former, but that's just guessing.

Best wishes,
NS

[Michaelson]

The examples I've personally handled, and those I've seen listed in catalogs have been numerically numbered. No general sizing.

Regards! Michaelson

[ron521]

I own a vintage "Lawton" jacket which is sized as a 40.

[Long John Tinfoil]

My original thought was that he would choose goat, for its lightness and durability, but then it occurred to me that he would have been buying for whatever he saw coming up "next". Was he buying a general purpose outdoors jacket to take on a fishing trip or was he thinking of a motorcycle trip in the southwest? Could he possibly foresee, when he went shopping that day, that it would take him from South American jungles to North Africa, China, India, the Himalayas and Alps?

I guess I'm with Michaelson on this one.

Like most guys, he probably had some favourite stores and brands. It likely came down to what was available, what he could afford, what they had in stock in his size (or near enough) and which style &/or colour he thought looked best in the mirror (if they had one).

IF he had multiple choices for all those, then the hide might have been the deciding factor. Knowing what little I do about leather jackets, I'd likely choose goat in those circumstances.

I have a Todd's standard in lamb and an Expedition (and an A2) in goat. My bet - the Expo.

LJ

[Tennessee Smith]

I'm on the same team for goat.

After seeing Michaelson's G&B goatskin I don't know how you could go wrong with that one. It was light as a feather but hearty. I mean it's light but it didn't feel like cheap leather. Also, it ages beautifully (albeit some artificially).

I have a USW A2 in goat and again the type of goat used is incredibly light but feels like it can take some abuse.

-The Dude...er, TS

[Indydawg]

Not that I care....seeing as I "believe nothing.."

But, as I've only kept the G&B jackets when push cane to shove...one in distressed cow, and now the one I'll never get rid of...a goatskin...

Given the parameters, the G&B would get my vote, too!

[gwyddion]

So Indy walks into a store where all the different jackets that are available to us are available to him at roughly the same 30's affordable price.... what would he choose?

I agree with the goat hide, if he was familiar with the qualities of said leather. Other things he would have looked at were freedom of movement and all-round-ness weather wise.

This means that the jacket's cut should make it so that you could easily add layers of clothing underneath to keep you warm when needed without restricting movement too much. I'd say that even-though my Wested LC is roomy enough in the sleeves and body for some serious layering, it would be excluded: Like with the on-screen jacket, the arm placement is such that comfortably reaching above your head while wearing it open, let alone closed, is just not possible. Nevermind when you layer-up underneath it. My Nowak Raiders and my Wested ROLA special both do not restrict movement nearly as much, but layering is, while possible, more limited than with the LC.

This leads me to conclude that my own 3 jackets would already be excluded

What do I think, purely on the basis of what I've heard, would meet the criteria I've set? Probably the Nowak CS and possibly some of the US Wings jackets. I could be dead wrong though, since I have never even seen those or other jackets in real life.

Does someone have experiences with every offering cut-wise? If so, what do you think would be a winner based on these criteria?

Regards, Geert

[Canada Jones]

Years back Michaelson suggested the G&B in Goat. On his recommendation I bought one. Fabulous jacket. Built well, comfortable and looks like the day I bought it. Tough as nails yet comfortable enough to sleep.
Canada

[Texan Scott]

I'll answer from a historical perspective. Circa 1936, and due to the condition of the Raiders jacket, most likely pre-1936, he might have chosen one of these in either horse or goathide:

http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/type_a1.html
http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/gwa1_images3.html

The info./article says that the Army Air Corps began to issue these jackets around Nov. 7, 1927, and this timeline also coincides with some of the fiction that has been written about the character.

The one/two piece back is much more sturdy and durable than an action back would be. Pleats, straps, etc., could be considered points of weakness, easy to hang up, etc., if you consider the rough and tumble of an actual adventure.

Other historical jackets looked like this:

http://vintageleatherjackets.blogspot.c ... ommet.html
http://www.windcanyonbooks.com/product_ ... cts_id=325
http://www.blackbirdballard.com/Levis_V ... 15964.html
(all links used for illustrative purposes only)

[John Vaughan]

[Weston]

How about this one?

http://www.shoplocalproducts.com/store/ ... ed=froogle

Looks awfully familiar!

Weston

[sharkboy]

I love that Cockpit jacket. From the front it looks very Indy, but in the back it doesn't have a yoke, the side vents go all the way to the top if I'm not mistaken. I've tried it on at the Cockpit store in NYC. It's actually a great jacket. Very tight fitting but longer than an Indy- soft predistressed goatskin. Definitely not a true Indy style jacket, but I could see him walking into cockpit and making it his own.

SB

[Tibor]

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't go with something with knit cuffs and waist as they were all wool and with the places he went, too likely a snack for the crawly/fluttering beasties. Hmmm, maybe he'd start with an A-1 or A-2, have the knits removed, complain about freedom of movement and have pleats put in, maybe some gussets, adjusting straps to keep the wind out... never mind. That would never work.

[soulman]

Weston, you stole my fire brother. I was thinking oil driller myself.