Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
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- InexorableTash
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:32 pm
- Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
This is a quick review of Todd's Costumes 10' whips, as mentioned at: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=47814 - that is, these are the new functional 10' intended to stand up to cracking, rather than the previous prop/costume-only whips. It showed up yesterday and I spent a couple of hours in the park today with it.
Executive summary:
* Extremely attractive, low cost
* Cracks sufficiently, appears robust
* Extremely dry material
* Insufficiently weighted handle, poor balance
Photos:
Details:
I ordered the whip on Wednesday and it was shipped promptly, arriving Friday via UPS as promised. Included with the whip was a small container of Pecard's, and the whip was bound with a small strip of leather.
The cowhide of the whip was extremely thin and dry; I say this in comparison to my other leather whip (a beefy Western Stage Props 7.5' cowhide by Del Carpio) and whips of my friends (Grizzly, Andrew Conway and Darren Henry) which admittedly are all nice 'roo whips from a variety of notable manufacturers (Strain, Murphy, Del Carpio, etc). Any handling of the whip produced a "creaking" sound as the dry plaits and bellies rubbed against each other. You can get a sense of the dryness from the photos, looking for example at the inside of the wrist loop. After taking the photos, I immediately rubbed about half of the jar of Pecard's in, which it eagerly absorbed. The fall is very thick white cowhide - much thicker in every dimension than the replacement falls I've purchased from David Morgan. The popper is heavy nylon, with a robust knot.
The whip is extremely light, again in comparison to my beefy cowhide WSP/DC whip, but also my 7' nylon by Rhett Kelley and 9' by COW's Dangerman009. The handle, I hate to say it, feels like paper wrapped around styrofoam. It is quite rigid, but feels entirely insubstantial. I fully admit to using and favoring heavy whips, which biases my opinion. However, my friend Grizzly has an 8' 'roohide by (I believe) Joe Strain which has what feels like like a hollow fiberglass handle; while that whip has a totally different balance than I'm used to, the whip itself has some weight and heft so once you get used to the balance point being far past the handle it throws nicely. The Todd's continues the light feel down the while length of the whip, so it never feels like there's mass there to pick up the inertia you want to impart. Fortunately, the whip has a definite taper (both in diameter and mass), and is not particularly stiff, so it does roll out beautifully.
Which leads to throwing and cracking. It cracks acceptably with the basics: underhand flick, cattleman's crack, forward flick, left and right sideways flicks, overhead and reverse overhead cracks. However, apart from the forward flick, it requires more effort than a heavier whip. On a great whip, the whip does the work; on this whip, you're doing the work. Again, I'm somewhat biased - I'm used to my shorter whips. But in comparison to Andrew's 10' 'roo whips where a sideways flick (into a wrap) is effortless, you need to "mean it" with this whip. Combinations don't come naturally, since the whip doesn't "flow" from one movement to the next. (It is longer than any of my other whips, so YMMV.)
Visually, however, the whip is gorgeous. It's a natural hide, and has started to darken already. If you gently pry apart some of the plaits you can see the underlying material is still pink. The connection with the fall seems a bit over-done; I don't know if this is SA or due to the thinness of the material or thickness of the fall or what, but it makes the fall connection quite a lump in the overall taper of the whip compared with my other whips. No kinks in the whip, no obvious imperfections that I could discern. It coils nicely, and has a very slight natural curve. Loose, but not a limp noodle - it feels "broken in" already, but not "broken".
How would I improve the whip? Well, I'm not a whip maker. And this is a whip designed primarily for show as part of a costume, *not* heavy use, so it needs to strike the balance between cost, appearance, and functionality. All of my suggestions would increase the time or materials used in the whip, which are probably impractical given the market. Those caveats aside: far more use of "product" (soap/leather conditioner/grease) during construction (to add mass and bond the layers); heftier handle; more weight down the length of the thong. For the latter, I'd follow the tricks of the nylon whip-makers and include a braided metal core or chain of BBs. I would also be interested in trying it out with a thinner fall, to improve the taper profile of the whip. - the base of the fall is pretty thick. I completely understand the need for a thick fall is a must for a costume whip that's going to get beaten against the ground by novice crackers.
I purchased the whip to get a 10' in my collection and since the price was low enough to try it out and write this review. Am I satisfied? Well... honestly, I really should have saved my pennies for a 9' Del Carpio, but this reinforced the importance of getting the right tool for the job. I now have a 10' that can crack, but I probably won't be asking for volunteers to get wrapped with it since the effort required to get a good crack out of the whip will mean it's not a precision instrument. I hope to get together with Darren W Henry at some point soon and get his opinion as well, and A/B compare it with a DM or DC Raiders whip.
If I ever have the opportunity to get on stage to show or teach I will, however, definitely get this whip out to show how the roll propagates down the length of the whip. At this point, my arsenal is: 7' nylon Kelley for teaching, 7.5' cowhide WSP/DC for routines, 9' nylon Dangerman009 for soggy adventures, and now the 10' cowhide Todd's for physics lessons. If I was doing Indy cosplay, this is I'd put this whip on my belt; but if I "got served", it wouldn't be the tool I'd reach for.
Executive summary:
* Extremely attractive, low cost
* Cracks sufficiently, appears robust
* Extremely dry material
* Insufficiently weighted handle, poor balance
Photos:
Details:
I ordered the whip on Wednesday and it was shipped promptly, arriving Friday via UPS as promised. Included with the whip was a small container of Pecard's, and the whip was bound with a small strip of leather.
The cowhide of the whip was extremely thin and dry; I say this in comparison to my other leather whip (a beefy Western Stage Props 7.5' cowhide by Del Carpio) and whips of my friends (Grizzly, Andrew Conway and Darren Henry) which admittedly are all nice 'roo whips from a variety of notable manufacturers (Strain, Murphy, Del Carpio, etc). Any handling of the whip produced a "creaking" sound as the dry plaits and bellies rubbed against each other. You can get a sense of the dryness from the photos, looking for example at the inside of the wrist loop. After taking the photos, I immediately rubbed about half of the jar of Pecard's in, which it eagerly absorbed. The fall is very thick white cowhide - much thicker in every dimension than the replacement falls I've purchased from David Morgan. The popper is heavy nylon, with a robust knot.
The whip is extremely light, again in comparison to my beefy cowhide WSP/DC whip, but also my 7' nylon by Rhett Kelley and 9' by COW's Dangerman009. The handle, I hate to say it, feels like paper wrapped around styrofoam. It is quite rigid, but feels entirely insubstantial. I fully admit to using and favoring heavy whips, which biases my opinion. However, my friend Grizzly has an 8' 'roohide by (I believe) Joe Strain which has what feels like like a hollow fiberglass handle; while that whip has a totally different balance than I'm used to, the whip itself has some weight and heft so once you get used to the balance point being far past the handle it throws nicely. The Todd's continues the light feel down the while length of the whip, so it never feels like there's mass there to pick up the inertia you want to impart. Fortunately, the whip has a definite taper (both in diameter and mass), and is not particularly stiff, so it does roll out beautifully.
Which leads to throwing and cracking. It cracks acceptably with the basics: underhand flick, cattleman's crack, forward flick, left and right sideways flicks, overhead and reverse overhead cracks. However, apart from the forward flick, it requires more effort than a heavier whip. On a great whip, the whip does the work; on this whip, you're doing the work. Again, I'm somewhat biased - I'm used to my shorter whips. But in comparison to Andrew's 10' 'roo whips where a sideways flick (into a wrap) is effortless, you need to "mean it" with this whip. Combinations don't come naturally, since the whip doesn't "flow" from one movement to the next. (It is longer than any of my other whips, so YMMV.)
Visually, however, the whip is gorgeous. It's a natural hide, and has started to darken already. If you gently pry apart some of the plaits you can see the underlying material is still pink. The connection with the fall seems a bit over-done; I don't know if this is SA or due to the thinness of the material or thickness of the fall or what, but it makes the fall connection quite a lump in the overall taper of the whip compared with my other whips. No kinks in the whip, no obvious imperfections that I could discern. It coils nicely, and has a very slight natural curve. Loose, but not a limp noodle - it feels "broken in" already, but not "broken".
How would I improve the whip? Well, I'm not a whip maker. And this is a whip designed primarily for show as part of a costume, *not* heavy use, so it needs to strike the balance between cost, appearance, and functionality. All of my suggestions would increase the time or materials used in the whip, which are probably impractical given the market. Those caveats aside: far more use of "product" (soap/leather conditioner/grease) during construction (to add mass and bond the layers); heftier handle; more weight down the length of the thong. For the latter, I'd follow the tricks of the nylon whip-makers and include a braided metal core or chain of BBs. I would also be interested in trying it out with a thinner fall, to improve the taper profile of the whip. - the base of the fall is pretty thick. I completely understand the need for a thick fall is a must for a costume whip that's going to get beaten against the ground by novice crackers.
I purchased the whip to get a 10' in my collection and since the price was low enough to try it out and write this review. Am I satisfied? Well... honestly, I really should have saved my pennies for a 9' Del Carpio, but this reinforced the importance of getting the right tool for the job. I now have a 10' that can crack, but I probably won't be asking for volunteers to get wrapped with it since the effort required to get a good crack out of the whip will mean it's not a precision instrument. I hope to get together with Darren W Henry at some point soon and get his opinion as well, and A/B compare it with a DM or DC Raiders whip.
If I ever have the opportunity to get on stage to show or teach I will, however, definitely get this whip out to show how the roll propagates down the length of the whip. At this point, my arsenal is: 7' nylon Kelley for teaching, 7.5' cowhide WSP/DC for routines, 9' nylon Dangerman009 for soggy adventures, and now the 10' cowhide Todd's for physics lessons. If I was doing Indy cosplay, this is I'd put this whip on my belt; but if I "got served", it wouldn't be the tool I'd reach for.
Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
Guys
Looks like a nice whip.
Regards.
Gaucho.
Looks like a nice whip.
Regards.
Gaucho.
- kwad
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 1016
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:26 pm
- Location: Hiding under your bed at night.
Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
When I recieved my 8' Todd's whip, it was extremely light as well. I think this has to do with the leather being dry as a matchstick.
After I conditioned it about a bazillion times, it stopped creaking and became much heavier.
It's actually now heavier than the 8' Caicedo whip I recently picked up.
I will say that my Todd's whip has a very good transition. Very stiff at the handle and gradually more flexible towards the tip. It makes for a nice handling and easy cracking whip.
They just need to go the extra mile and use some plaiting soap and a little lead in the handle. Also, it would be nice if they pre stretched the strands. (The point on my whip stretched out very quickly and I needed to re-braid the last few inches to tighten it up.)
After I conditioned it about a bazillion times, it stopped creaking and became much heavier.
It's actually now heavier than the 8' Caicedo whip I recently picked up.
I will say that my Todd's whip has a very good transition. Very stiff at the handle and gradually more flexible towards the tip. It makes for a nice handling and easy cracking whip.
They just need to go the extra mile and use some plaiting soap and a little lead in the handle. Also, it would be nice if they pre stretched the strands. (The point on my whip stretched out very quickly and I needed to re-braid the last few inches to tighten it up.)
- BaptisteTheFool
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:28 pm
Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
kwad wrote:When I recieved my 8' Todd's whip, it was extremely light as well. I think this has to do with the leather being dry as a matchstick.
After I conditioned it about a bazillion times, it stopped creaking and became much heavier.
It's actually now heavier than the 8' Caicedo whip I recently picked up.
I will say that my Todd's whip has a very good transition. Very stiff at the handle and gradually more flexible towards the tip. It makes for a nice handling and easy cracking whip.
They just need to go the extra mile and use some plaiting soap and a little lead in the handle. Also, it would be nice if they pre stretched the strands. (The point on my whip stretched out very quickly and I needed to re-braid the last few inches to tighten it up.)
Can you provide some instructions on this?
I've had an 8ft for a few months now. I conditioned it again a few hours ago and noticed the end of the whip was coming loose and could be rebraided.
- kwad
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 1016
- Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 5:26 pm
- Location: Hiding under your bed at night.
Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
Hi Baptiste,
On mine, I compltelely removed the fall and rebraided the last two inches before the hitch, but, if you are not comfortable doing that, you could try this;
Undo the fall hitch knots.
The core strand is bound to the fall with waxed thread (and what looks like scotch tape ) , so you will have to cut the thread and tape.
Once loose, slide the fall back, just past the loose spot (which was just right to the hitch on mine).
Now, pull each of the six individual strands straight out (Be careful! They will break if pulled too hard.) to tighten it back up.
If you want, you can rebind the core strand to the fall with some dental floss, but it is not necessary. You can just lay it up against the fall and tie the hitch over it, if you'd prefer.
Finally, re-tie the fall hitch (check out youtube for directions if you've never tied a fall hitch before. Bernie W. has some great instructional vids on the subject).
You will loose about 1/2" off the total length of the whip doing it this way, but you more than likely won't miss it.
Please be aware, I am no expert in the area of whip making/repair.
If any of the many skilled whip makers on this board care to share their expertise, please do.
On mine, I compltelely removed the fall and rebraided the last two inches before the hitch, but, if you are not comfortable doing that, you could try this;
Undo the fall hitch knots.
The core strand is bound to the fall with waxed thread (and what looks like scotch tape ) , so you will have to cut the thread and tape.
Once loose, slide the fall back, just past the loose spot (which was just right to the hitch on mine).
Now, pull each of the six individual strands straight out (Be careful! They will break if pulled too hard.) to tighten it back up.
If you want, you can rebind the core strand to the fall with some dental floss, but it is not necessary. You can just lay it up against the fall and tie the hitch over it, if you'd prefer.
Finally, re-tie the fall hitch (check out youtube for directions if you've never tied a fall hitch before. Bernie W. has some great instructional vids on the subject).
You will loose about 1/2" off the total length of the whip doing it this way, but you more than likely won't miss it.
Please be aware, I am no expert in the area of whip making/repair.
If any of the many skilled whip makers on this board care to share their expertise, please do.
- BaptisteTheFool
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:28 pm
Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
Sounds very daunting. But I appreciate the instruction. I'll take a look at the whip here in the next few days and see if it's something I'm willing to attempt.kwad wrote:Hi Baptiste,
On mine, I compltelely removed the fall and rebraided the last two inches before the hitch, but, if you are not comfortable doing that, you could try this;
Undo the fall hitch knots.
The core strand is bound to the fall with waxed thread (and what looks like scotch tape ) , so you will have to cut the thread and tape.
Once loose, slide the fall back, just past the loose spot (which was just right to the hitch on mine).
Now, pull each of the six individual strands straight out (Be careful! They will break if pulled too hard.) to tighten it back up.
If you want, you can rebind the core strand to the fall with some dental floss, but it is not necessary. You can just lay it up against the fall and tie the hitch over it, if you'd prefer.
Finally, re-tie the fall hitch (check out youtube for directions if you've never tied a fall hitch before. Bernie W. has some great instructional vids on the subject).
You will loose about 1/2" off the total length of the whip doing it this way, but you more than likely won't miss it.
Please be aware, I am no expert in the area of whip making/repair.
If any of the many skilled whip makers on this board care to share their expertise, please do.
Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
Guys
Which the time of durability of a costume whip like this?
Thanks.
Gaucho.
Which the time of durability of a costume whip like this?
Thanks.
Gaucho.
- indyclone
- Professor of Archaeology
- Posts: 704
- Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:01 am
- Location: midlothian Illinois-- just south of chicago
Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
great review , i am very happy with my todds 8 ft whip and i would most likely get the new ten ft whip in the next few months ,yes hwen you do get the whips it is dry , and you do have to oil it up to get the dryness out , but after awhile the whip does feel pretty good .
- InexorableTash
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:32 pm
- Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
Thought I'd post an update:
Yep, that's the same whip, after just two weeks of leather conditioner and, most importantly, a week away from the fog of San Francisco, and basking in the rural Oregon sunshine.
The visual transformation is pretty remarkable. The weighting remains all wrong, of course, but while it still creaks a bit the leather feels much better now. No real change to its behavior, though, despite the ounces of Pecard's it's absorbed; I've shortened the popper tuft a bit, and still want to swap out the fall for something thinner.
Yep, that's the same whip, after just two weeks of leather conditioner and, most importantly, a week away from the fog of San Francisco, and basking in the rural Oregon sunshine.
The visual transformation is pretty remarkable. The weighting remains all wrong, of course, but while it still creaks a bit the leather feels much better now. No real change to its behavior, though, despite the ounces of Pecard's it's absorbed; I've shortened the popper tuft a bit, and still want to swap out the fall for something thinner.
- IndianaBravo
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 426
- Joined: Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:40 pm
- Location: Madrid, Spain
Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
An excellent, well written and impartial review. I started the other "Just got my Todds 8 foot whip" thread some time ago. I was expecting that this new batch would include some of the upgrades mentioned, particularly the weighted handle issue. If Todd could get these people ( in Pakistan , I believe ) to use higher quality leather at least, it would really give these whips a lot more oomph! I mean these people obviously know how to plait. If they had better materials to work with it would certainly produce a higher quality product, and probably still within a more than reasonable price range.
Cheers!
Bravo
Cheers!
Bravo
- DoubleOhSeven
- Laboratory Technician
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Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
Hey, InexorableTash, I was wondering...
I just received my Todd's 10' today. You are right about the weight being all wrong...it takes a considerable amount of muscle to make this thing crack. I'm no whip expert by any means, and up until today have never owned an Indy style whip. My experience with other bullwhips, though, tells me I am going to have to work a bit to find the "sweet spot" on this one.
My question, though, is how often did you apply Pecards to your whip? I put one coat on with the sample bottle that Todd sent with the whip, and it already looks like it wants another coat. I've got a larger jar on order, should be here any day. I was thinking maybe a light coat every other day or everyth three days should get it broken in nicely?
I just received my Todd's 10' today. You are right about the weight being all wrong...it takes a considerable amount of muscle to make this thing crack. I'm no whip expert by any means, and up until today have never owned an Indy style whip. My experience with other bullwhips, though, tells me I am going to have to work a bit to find the "sweet spot" on this one.
My question, though, is how often did you apply Pecards to your whip? I put one coat on with the sample bottle that Todd sent with the whip, and it already looks like it wants another coat. I've got a larger jar on order, should be here any day. I was thinking maybe a light coat every other day or everyth three days should get it broken in nicely?
- InexorableTash
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 150
- Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:32 pm
- Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
As often as I could.DoubleOhSeven wrote:how often did you apply Pecards to your whip?
While in Oregon we acquired a very old, very dry leather US Mail satchel (future whip bag!) from a junk dealer, and picked up a large tub of waxy conditioner from a tack shop. For several hot afternoons and evenings in a row we applied the conditioner - which would basically liquify at the touch due to the heat - to the whip and satchel then let them sit in the sun until it had all been stunk up by the dry leather. Repeat until the sun goes down, start again the next day.
I haven't done much since we got back, although I really do need to skive down or replace the fall. I'm still enjoying the whip... a long whip is just so soothing to watch roll out.
- Puppetboy
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Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
Glad you are enjoying it!
Pecard also has a product called "Leather Cream" which I carry. It's more liquid than the paste, and soaks in faster, especially with a little warmth from the sun.
Pecard also has a product called "Leather Cream" which I carry. It's more liquid than the paste, and soaks in faster, especially with a little warmth from the sun.
- DoubleOhSeven
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Re: Review of Todd's new 10' Whip
Thanks for the info!
And Puppetboy, love the whip! Man, that was some FAST shipping!
And Puppetboy, love the whip! Man, that was some FAST shipping!