Screen accurate specs., a member's own view

[Texan Scott]

The coveted Raiders jacket. "Nothing else has come close", nor looked quite as good on screen as that modified A-2! It's helpful to know what to look for, but here are a few suggestions for members who might be considering placing an order for a Raiders jacket:

(for 42, 44, 46 sizes, scale up or down, depending)

Collar: What I consider to be a 70's styled collar, it is slightly wide at ~2 1/2 inches.

Collar stand: around 3/4" ~ less than one inch.

Storm flap: 1 1/2 inches (collar should extend to around the mid-point on the storm flap).

Zip: 5 gauge, either antique brass, nickel, or aluminum. Some prefer the shinier silver colored zip.

Sleeves: The cuff should end at the first nuckle of the thumb.

Gussets: Underarm gussets for ease of movement, FOM.

Pockets: Larger sized cargo pockets of at least, 8" tall X 6 1/4 ~ 6 1/2" wide. The flap is slightly wider than the cargo pocket and tapers out on the sides before it comes in to the sclloped point. The top and bottom of the hand entry pockets should be reinforced, due to the tendency of the thread to pull out of the stitches with repeated use.

Facings: No leather facings inside the jacket.

Liner: Rayon or cotton twill type material. Cotton body, satin sleeves for some vendor(s).

Left breast (inside) pocket: Leather piped, a 3/4" strip of leather outlines or "caps" the top of the pocket.

Straps: X-box stitched and anchored at the mid-portion of the cargo pockets.

Strap fasteners: Metal rectangular sliders (if possible) or rectangular loops for lamb (so the straps will not pull out), or D-rings for thicker leather, like cow, etc.

Snap: Though not entirely screen accurate, a hidden snap at the bottom of the storm flap is recommended in order to keep the storm flap closed, yet it is a personal preference. The true Raiders screen jacket did not source a snap, neither at the top and/or bottom of the storm flap.

Back length: Should be measured from the bottom of the collar stand to the end of the jacket, and should end at roughly the length of the waist, though personal preference might adjust the length to +/- 1 to 2 inches below the belt.

Yoke: Slender yoke, around 3 3/4" at the seams and roughly 5 3/4" from the mid-portion of the yoke at the bottom of the collar stand to the seam adjoining the back panel.

Sleeve seam/bottom of the yoke seam alignment: Misaligned ~1 inch

Pleat width: No more than 1 1/2" deep.

[Dr._J]

GREAT pics! You can really make out the leather characteristics. Especially in black and white!

[Texan Scott]

Thanks, senior! Like the commedian once said about his wife's question on, "How does the dress look?" His reply..."just let me put a pistol to my head right now!"

All joking aside, it's an honor and I would consider it. Thanks for asking!

[Texan Scott]

GREAT pics! You can really make out the leather characteristics. Especially in black and white!

Thanks, Dr. J. I had a good mentor.

[Texan Scott]

Glad to help if I can.

[Holt]

I like it.

[Texan Scott]

Thanks, Holt! I appreciate your input and for your help in the past!

[Falstaff]

Thanks for the info. I just ordered a Raiders goat from Magnoli with some modifications such as single snap on the bottom of the storm-flap. I struggled quite a while with the length as I wanted something short, but not too short. I'm not after screen accuracy because I not screen accurate myself. I'll be interested to see how the finished product I get in 6 to 8 weeks compares to your helpful specs.

[Forrest For the Trees]

What leather should it be?

[Bemo]

And about that zip....

Seriously, great work on the specs!

[CM]

I would add to that something about the shape and cut of the pocket flap. The Nowak's really nail this, Wested hardly ever does. The flap is slightly wider than the cargo pocket and tapers out on the sides before it comes in to the sclloped point (can someone post a Nowak pic to demonstrate?). The flap really affects the jacket look on all of the Indy jackets. The G&B flap is generously scolloped, but the flap is narrow (teh same width as the pocket) with very straigh sides - it could use tweaking.

[theman]

Total Hogwash, that should be K-box stitching on the straps!

[Texan Scott]

What leather should it be?

....hahaha! sonofa.... .... er....lamb, but take your pick on the texture...

Thanks for the info. I just ordered a Raiders goat from Magnoli with some modifications such as single snap on the bottom of the storm-flap. I struggled quite a while with the length as I wanted something short, but not too short. I'm not after screen accuracy because I not screen accurate myself. I'll be interested to see how the finished product I get in 6 to 8 weeks compares to your helpful specs.

Hope this is of help to you & others in the future.

And about that zip....

Seriously, great work on the specs!

I would add to that something about the shape and cut of the pocket flap. The Nowak's really nail this, Wested hardly ever does. The flap is slightly wider than the cargo pocket and tapers out on the sides before it comes in to the sclloped point (can someone post a Nowak pic to demonstrate?). The flap really affects the jacket look on all of the Indy jackets. The G&B flap is generously scolloped, but the flap is narrow (teh same width as the pocket) with very straigh sides - it could use tweaking.

Good take on the pockets there, CM! I think I will add your observations into the list, if that is allright with you?

Total Hogwash, that should be K-box stitching on the straps!

...no, no, no! It's washed goat!

[Mike]

I'll just interject that I hope that autographed pic is not one you put money up for.

[djd]

Good stuff

I think more than anything, this list goes to show that the best jacket makers out there are probably not the ones who claim to have the magic, original plans (which pretty clearly do not exist), but rather, the ones who are willing to pay attention to the little details that the customer asks for. This is where Magnoli and TN score highly for me (as does Todd for that matter). That said, Wested make a very good LC jacket I think. My attraction to the US Wings jacket is more about the hide they have access to than anything else. I'd love a Magnoli in striated lamb.....

[Texan Scott]

Mike, I have to admit that back around 2000, I did buy this on Ebay, complete with CoA on the back (unposted) from "Henry Ford", etc. I always loved the still and the black & white format. Fortunately, it was not for much. Back then, I could have really used your expert observations.

[Texan Scott]

Good stuff

I think more than anything, this list goes to show that the best jacket makers out there are probably not the ones who claim to have the magic, original plans (which pretty clearly do not exist), but rather, the ones who are willing to pay attention to the little details that the customer asks for. This is where Magnoli and TN score highly for me (as does Todd for that matter). That said, Wested make a very good LC jacket I think. My attraction to the US Wings jacket is more about the hide they have access to than anything else. I'd love a Magnoli in striated lamb.....

Thanks for your conmments, djd. I really liked their new, distressed cowhide offering. I thought it might make a nice LC type jacket, complete with snaps, etc.

To me, the 'getting out of the well of souls' close-up was telling. I'll have to fish for the pic:
(appears to be the same jacket as the one used in the Raven Bar. Notice the still of Indy and Marion, the striations on the jacket on his upper right panel.)

[Texan Scott]

Thanks to _ for his analysis and to Holt for reposting the specs, this was the result of his comparison of a Raiders stunt man's jacket, and a Wested of that era (circa: August, 2000):

Posted by _ from XX.XXX.XX.XX on August 07, 2000 at 15:01:29:

"I was able to examination an original jacket from Raiders over the weekend. I examined the jacket as well as the documents certifying its authenticity. I brought along a Wested jacket for comparison, though after owning three, I think I could have done this from memory. Peter even dropped me a hint as to an item I might look for to verify it was one of his. Based on all that I had before me, I believe that this was an authentic article.

So here goes…

For the most part, the items we've been debating made up the bulk of the differences:

1.The leather used was noticeably thicker then that on my Wested.

2.This particular jacket had rectangular rings 1 inch by ½ inch, rather then the d-rings. They were painted black.

3.The straps were thicker and a bit wider. The thickness was due to the leather being three layers thick rather then two.

4.The straps were attached within the seam of the jacket, which runs a few inches from the hand warmer slit, i.e. they were not attached right next to the hand warmer slit as with my Wested. A reinforcing length of stitching ran approximately ¼ inch from the seam on the side towards the hand warmer slit. This stitching was through the outer jacket and through the part of the strap under the seam.

5.The rings were attached under the seam like the Wested, but were much more flush with the edge of the rear panel, i.e. they were barely visible unless the bi-swing pleat were opened.

6.Also, a very interesting thing was that the stitching for the ring attachment went through the rear panel. This could explain why sometimes it looks like the attachment is on the outside and sometimes on the inside.

7.The overall side strap attachment is slightly above the center of the hand warmer slit opening, NOT level with the bottom of the opening as with my Wested.

8.The length of the bi-swing pleat ran ½ inch above the attachment of the ring attachment to the rear panel. As such, the bi-swing pleat on the Wested needs to be appropriately longer.

9.One big surprise - there were gussets under the arms! This explains a particular fit problem I've always had with the Wested, i.e. you cannot move your arms around much without the entire body of the jacket moving with you. The gussets would fix this. They were made up of two panels, each ¾ inch wide. Together they were shaped like an elongated eye. They serve as a kind of pleat under the arm to allow arm movement without affecting fit or how the jacket hangs. Very interesting.

10.The collar attachment to the storm flap was correct in basic configuration, but the Wested is off in scale. The storm flap on the original was 3/4 inch narrower, and the collar band was only ¾ inch wide vs. 1 1/8 on the Wested. Other then that the collar dimensions were dead-on. Sorry, but the collar band did attach to the top of the storm flap, creating the "cap" to the storm flap - some have disputed this, though I cannot recall who. The resulting collar sat more flat against the jacket.

11.The bi-swing pleat was 1 ½ inches deep, vs. 1 inch on my Wested. The extra ½ inch makes a big difference in the appearance of the pleat.

12.The seam under the sleeve was lined up perfectly with the seam across the back of the jacket.

13.The inside pocket was a simple leather-bound slit, not the more elaborate configuration of my Wested. Actually, I really do prefer the more elaborate setup, but that's not the purpose here.

14.The lining was cotton - heavier then the cotton I have on my LC Wested. It was more like a lightweight denim-like material. The color was very close to my Wested's, however.

15.The cargo pockets were dead-on.

16.The zipper was the cheap aluminum type, with several teeth missing.

17.The jacket had two tears - one on each elbow. Quite probably the reason it was set aside from the production.

18.The color was a very deep brown - almost black in indoor light. Under bright light it did have a very subtle reddish hue.

I have drawings and measurements in note form. I'll put together some diagrams to try and clarify all this in the next few days.

Fun stuff!

-_"

[Indydawg]

TS-I remember drooling over those notes when _ first posted them ten years ago! Wow! Thank you!!!!

You know something, guys....this is making me want to try for another Wested....I wonder if Peter would even take my calls these days?!

Maybe I'll see.....Holt? You still got those LC specs of yours? I have a few personal TWEAKS I want to adjust on them just for me!!!!

Indydawg

[Holt]

oh, give me a alittle time and I'll dig around for you my friend.

[Indydawg]

[Gringo]

He will take your call Dawg, even if I have to skip across the pond and hold him down next to the receiver! Good luck with the order. Cheers

I just got my custom Dr. Who Novapelle and it rocks

[Indydawg]

Now THAT'S the kinda backup, I'm talkin' about, G!!!!

Yes...I am officially declaring my intentions to engage, yet again, on the quest for my "perfect" Wested "Last Crusade" jacket!!!!

May heaven have mercy on my soul....
Regards!
Indydawg

[Gringo]

Well, if he does not have mercy on you, he will be begging for it when we are done with him, "forget about it(Donnie Brasco)!"

[Indydawg]

Dayum straight, my friend!

[Gringo]

MAN! I have said it before and I will again. Its GREAT to have ya back Dawg.

[Indydawg]

[Canada Jones]

Texan Scott:
This is great. I am wondering if anyone has ever posted a list of different jacket leathers and what their strengths and weaknesses are. With so many options for leather it gets hard to know what is the right choice.
best
Canada

[Texan Scott]

I was just thinking how to do that in one post. Having samples of leather from several vendors, these would be difficult to display here. I'd refer you to the G&B site for this info., then advise to ask for leather samples from the vendor of choice and to not be hurried about the process. Get exactly the jacket you want!

There is some good info. here:

http://www.gibson-barnes.com/Types+of+Leather/id/47/

http://www.gibson-barnes.com/Learn+About+Leather/id/43/

[Canada Jones]

Thanks. Those links are helpful.
best
Canada