The Berman's labels were something Berman's did. They would "receive" items from vendors and part of putting them into their inventory involved removing ALL existing labels and putting in that B&N label. That's all that is...
They had standard Cooper labels. Mine is in a box in the basement and I'm too lazy to get it. Memory tells me it has a shield with blue across the top, and red and whit vertical stripes at the bottom, with "Cooper Mfg" and "Made in the U.S.A."
As to this being Hack and Cooper so LFL will not care? They always care. They always care because that's how you protect your properties. The labels will be approved by LFL Licensing and the images will all be registered and copyrighted by LFL. The images will be digitized and catalogued with every other image ever related to LFL IP.
"This ain't no lemonade stand."
Just my two cents worth.. I would never release my rights to any person or company with the use of My name and or Logo... Unless it was to COW and the price is FREE... When was the last time you saw a US Wings Inc. Jacket for sale in any other store but US Wings Inc. ? The last person tried that cost Him $700,000. Now that we have cleared the air.. US Wings Inc. will make a Indy -Style Jacket with Neil Coopers Pattern from the Raiders and it will be as close as Neil Cooper can come to spec. If we get the License.. Great! If Not we will still make a Indy-Style Jacket but it will not be officially licensed! George Lucas owns Indiana Jones and all four Movies and the fonts. Jacky Clyman has been making and selling the Raiders jacket for years.. I have been selling the Raiders Jacket since 1985.. I have a official letter from George Lucas that states any and all wording at http://www.uswings.com has been singed off and okayed by George Lucas.. I do not claim that our Jackets are the Indiana Jones Jackets nor do I use the name like some other people do on the internet.
I do however use Dorfman Pacific License because Fans... They have the Official License!!!
Sarge
We've sort of come to the point where we are basically saying the same thing with these logos:
US Wings
Raiders
neil cooper design
30th Anniversary
It just depends on how you want things configured, colors, label, etc. I kept thinking of a way that we could incorporate some measure of brown or khaki into the label.
Just another idea, it has all the items in it, it's formatted exactly from an original G-1 WWII jacket's label.
I think tan might look better as the back ground but I went with a more traditional military coloring on this one. Just an idea.
And maybe Magneto font would look good Mike?
Last edited by Tennessee Smith on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Let's assume that US Wings doesn't get the license from LFL. How do people feel about cherubim that are slightly different than the ones used in the movie. Something along these lines:
Also, what if the cherubim were used in the background, with some of the typeface over them rather than treating the label like a flat one dimensional piece? Or, if the cheribum were large enough, we could probably fit all of the details between the wings.
Art deco, would be really cool and 1930's decade specific, same with that type of font for "30th Anniversary". Reminds me alot of the cherub dedication memorial at Hoover D-am.
"30th Anniversary" could be cool inside the "box" lower portion of the image above...?
Perfect spot for text, but the whole image might be a little too 'over the top'.
Sometimes less is more if you can simply suggest something, a thought.
Wooden crate backround on a black label. The black label serves as a boarder. Font is 'old fashioned stencile' nostalgic script, looks like text has been burned into the crate....
US Wings logo (it would be cool to enlarge the wings and crest, and put "US Wings" inside the upper portion of the crest).
RAIDERS
30th Anniversary
Left side (space) Right side
Neil Cooper design(space)hero jacket
dwc 0612-1981 (space) 9906573
Here's what I was thinkin' sports fans... ....I know, it usually gets me in trouble, but here goes....so we've got a black label...USW logo at the top....RAIDERS & Neil Cooper design in the same silver opening credits font...can we incorporate another Raiders movie icon into the label, instead of the cherub? Is the headpiece out of the mix? We could always just go simple and simply put:
Michaelson wrote:True, but also keep in mind that a LOT of folks may or may not recognize a lot of the imagery that we take for granted.
We recognize the cheribim for what they are, on top of the Ark....but others may not have any idea what they are.
Keep it as simple a possible would be my suggestion.
Wings is giving this community a great opportunity to participate in a label design. Let's not run the cost up, which is very easy to do.
Regards! Michaelson
Wasn't it said that there would be two different labels for the COW member jackets and the normal run, and that we're designing the label for the COW jackets? That being the case, then wouldn't it only matter that WE recognize the imagery? That said, I'm not a fan of using non-raiders cherubs, nor am I a fan of running up the costs, I just want to make sure we're all on the right page. But I could be wrong about the labels
Heck, I'll chime in here and answer. The answer to your question is a resounding NO. From what I have read on this forum, GL lets this place exist so long as the profile is low. If it even gets a sniff of going public, that could be the end of COW. There was some to-do about COW coins a ways back...well before I joined. The coins (whatever they were) didn't sound like much of anything but apparently caused some big problems.
I must admit, I really love all the designs, especially the leather on leather look! However, going back to the 'studio tag' mockup which some folks really seem to love (thank you, but I can't take any credit for it as it was a no brainer ), I came up with this.
*Note: I've also found a little way to include the US Wings logo in there too!
I hope Indiego Jones won't mind, as I used his label as a starting point for my mockup. While many of the variations on the 'studio tag' that have been posted look absolutely gorgeous and simply showcase the talents of our members, it just seemed to me that the better we improved on that basic design, the further we moved away from the look of the 'studio tag', which is why I just wanted to take a 'back to basics' approach in this mockup. After all, isn't Indy a 'back to basics' kinda guy anyway?
afalzon wrote:I 'd say just keep it simple. Without fancy flags, wings, mountains, cherubims and the like.
Seconded. And Please - especially no cherubims/Arks because to me it seems sacrilegious to put those on a jacket since these are religious symbols...
thanks
best
Canada
PS Having said that there have been some GREAT designs...you people are talented!
I have seen it mentioned twice now that placing the Ark or a cherubim on the label might be offensive to some people. Quite frankly, I don't get it. If using the Ark as a prop in a movie isn't offensive, how in the world could an image of the Ark on a jacket label be construed as being offensive? I'm genuinely curious. How about religious symbols as jewelry? A no go, too?
Let's get some input as to what we can use? According to Sarge, we can use the logo, correct? Can we use the "RAIDERS" opening credits logo font? If so, this would look really cool with "30th Anniversary" since its the movie origin date we are celebrating in conjunction with the NC pattern.
A clean, simple label that gets the point across is a great place to start and end up. I personally like the cherub because it ties directly in with the main theme of the movie, but apparently we can't use the cherub, so I say we go clean and simple:
USW logo
RAIDERS
30th Anniversary
Neil Cooper design
dwc 0612-1981
Other than the USW logo, there would not be any other graphics, except for font style. Raiders and 30th in silver, NC and dwc in gold.
A quick adaption of my last design, as suggested above.
Will try something without the Raiders logo next. And will play around with your crate idea ASAP, TS.
Rick Deckard wrote:I have seen it mentioned twice now that placing the Ark or a cherubim on the label might be offensive to some people. Quite frankly, I don't get it. If using the Ark as a prop in a movie isn't offensive, how in the world could an image of the Ark on a jacket label be construed as being offensive? I'm genuinely curious. How about religious symbols as jewelry? A no go, too?
To paraphrase a quote directly from Raiders of the Lost Ark..."you ever go to Sunday School?"
That's a religious point, and since we don't discuss religion here, I hope someone can clear that up for you via PM.
Ok, back to the label design proposals, if you please.
Rick, I think what Canada Jones's point is is that unlike the Christian images of the crucifix or the fish, the Ark of the Covenant is a Jewish vessel with several extremely specific laws devoted to how it was approached, handled etc. It was considered so holy that in the Old Testament, only the priests of the Levite tribe were even permitted to look upon it (hence Belloq's attire).
And I don't think the fact that the Ark is displayed so prominently in the Raiders film is an answer to Canada Jones's stated concern, as we're talking about a jacket label design into which we have been invited to provide actual input. A guy might like the movie but not want to buy a Ark of the Covenant scale replica paper clip holder. Similarly, the fact that the old witch in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves had an upside-down crucifix in her lair doesn't mean an upside-down crucifix should be fair game for a replica Robin Hood jacket, especially if prospective purchasers have an opportunity to design the label.
Canada Jones has voiced a valid concern.
SD
[edited for spelling]
Last edited by St. Dumas on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Thank you, m.s., for your assitance, as I have never used one of these graphics programs that you are adapt at. I'm still a fan of the black label. Very well placed.
Guys,
We have been given an extraordinary task, a first in the forum. If someone from a position of authority says, 'no', we'll simply move on. We can still develop a really cool logo, and I believe we can. There is some really great ideas in this thread already! We'll continue to throw out good ideas, and if one isn't eccepted, then we'll mine other good ideas...
So, saddle up!
Get out your whip and start whoopin' there are bigger fish to fry!
Last edited by Texan Scott on Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
m.s wrote:A quick adaption of my last design, as suggested above.
Will try something without the Raiders logo next. And will play around with your crate idea ASAP, TS.
M.S, I like that last one. Going long with with the crate (great ) idea... what if it was burned in (on leather obviously) like when the Ark burns the lettering on the crate on Kantanga's ship? It might look too western, But Raiders kind of like a western but with Nazis... (Mod. suggestion: we need an emoticon with shrugging shoulders as in "I don't know, I'm making this up as I go..." I could use that all the time)
First of all-I just have to say, Tennessee....OUTSTANDING work on those labels! LOVE 'em! Simple, elegant....the vintage flight jacket enthusiast in me just loves the idea of a "period" accurate label for such a "period" character....nice work! Keep it up!
Second-again, religion is just FAR too "touchy" a subject for discussion here. St. Dumas-your attempt to answer Rick will be left up for now...but, as per Michaelson's gentle redirection, the discussion of the religious nature of the Ark's symbology on this open forum stops here. You want to talk about it-FINE...but do it via PM or email. I'll be glad to help you figure it out via PM myself....but no more here.
I was thinking of maybe 3 or 4 planks going horizontal across the label, like on an actual warehouse crate, this way, you would be able to see some definition in between the boards, or one solid piece of wood with the wood grain, and a wooden board type boarder square around the label...? If that is even possible....
St. Dumas wrote:Rick, I think what Canada Jones's point is is that unlike the Christian images of the cricifix or the fish, the Ark of the Covenant is a Jewish vessel with several extremely specific laws devoted to how it was approached, handled etc. It was considered so holy that in the Old Testament, only the priests of the Levite tribe were evern permitted to look upon it (hence Belloq's attire).
And I don't think the fact that the Ark is displayed so prominently in the Raiders film is an answer to Canada Jones's stated concern, as we're talking about a jacket label design into which we have been invited to provide actual input. A guy might like the movie but not want to buy a Ark of the Covenant scape replica paper clip holder. Similarly, the fact that the old witch in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves had an upside-down crucifix in her lair doesn't mean an upside-down crucifix should be fair game for a replica Robin Hood jacket, especially if prospective purchasers have an opportunity to design the label.
Canada Jones has voiced a valid concern.
SD
Thank you St. Dumas - that very accurately describes my feelings. Back to the design discussion- Besides my eariler comments I also think the label starts to look too busy with the wings on the Ark and the wings of the US Wings logo. The ones I think look really sharp are clean and simple. I have already seen a ton of great designs any one of which I think we would all be happy with. I have no idea how Michaelson will pick...
best
Canada
PS What does the DWC stand for? I assume the number is the movie release date?
Indydawg wrote:First of all-I just have to say, Tennessee....OUTSTANDING work on those labels! LOVE 'em! Simple, elegant....the vintage flight jacket enthusiast in me just loves the idea of a "period" accurate label for such a "period" character....nice work! Keep it up!
I have to agree, these are especially fine designs to my eye. Great work bud and cheers for sharing!
Canada Jones wrote: I have no idea how Michaelson will pick...
best
Canada
I was thinking about just throwing a dart at the PC screen showing the proposed labels, but after long consideration, I decided that probably wasn't the smartest thing to do.
Canada Jones wrote: I have no idea how Michaelson will pick...
best
Canada
I was thinking about just throwing a dart at the PC screen showing the proposed labels, but after long consideration, I decided that probably wasn't the smartest thing to do.
Regards! Michaelson
Use a laptop... the screens tend to be flimsier, more supportive/receptive to darts
Canada Jones wrote: I have no idea how Michaelson will pick...
best
Canada
I was thinking about just throwing a dart at the PC screen showing the proposed labels, but after long consideration, I decided that probably wasn't the smartest thing to do.
Regards! Michaelson
I will be honored to wear which ever label you pick Michaelson and I think in itself gives it added value. Now in terms of the dart to the screen....perhaps you should try that at work and with someone else's screen!
best
Canada
Canada Jones wrote:PS What does the DWC stand for? I assume the number is the movie release date?
DWC, stands for Department of War Contract just in case no one knew. It was a term used for, well, the obvious during the 30's and 40's. Hope that clears that one up. I've been waiting for someone to ask
Kramstarr, Dawg
Thank you much for the compliments. I love the simplicity and nod's all-way 'round to it but everyone here has put up some amazing stuff. This has been a fun thread.
Canada Jones wrote:PS What does the DWC stand for? I assume the number is the movie release date?
DWC, stands for Department of War Contract just in case no one knew. It was a term used for, well, the obvious during the 30's and 40's. Hope that clears that one up. I've been waiting for someone to ask
Kramstarr, Dawg
Thank you much for the compliments. I love the simplicity and nod's all-way 'round to it but everyone here has put up some amazing stuff. This has been a fun thread.
-TS
Thanks for the clarification - great idea. Love your work. I hope you have ordered one of these jackets!
best
Canada
Canada Jones wrote:So all this work just for fun? I am sure you are going to love the antique cow. Keep up the great work.
best
Canada
Yeah, and I was going to get a degree in graphic design many moons ago but life changed that path. I saw this as an opportunity to exercise those muscles again and do something for Sarge and Cow. The well hasn't been this wet in ages. It's been great doing this again.
Last edited by Tennessee Smith on Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
Canada Jones wrote:So all this work just for fun? I am sure you are going to love the antique cow. Keep up the great work.
best
Canada
Yeah, and I was going to get a degree in graphic design many moons ago but life changed that path. I saw this as an opportunity to exercise those muscles again and do something for Sarge and Cow. The well hasn't been this wet in ages. It's been great doing this again.
Well, Gringo...actually, those are the "Hero" Indy-style versions MADE from the striated lambskin that will be used for the Raiders jacket-Sarge wanted to have a whole jacket made from the leather so everyone could SEE what the leather will look like ON an actual jacket...but these are the "Hero" patterns that were used on the recent releases on the Lightweight antique New Zealand lambskin and the Naked cowhide back earlier this summer.
There's also a horsehide version now up right underneath the striated lamb, also the "Hero" Indy-style....
But, thanks for pointing out that these new additions were up, Gringo!
Check the vendors' announcement forum a little later this morning....something a bit more formal should be forthcoming....
No worries, Gringo-just didn't want everyone going off on a tangent thinking those jackets pictured were the Cooper Raiders....that could have been...disastrous.
) idea... what if it was burned in (on leather obviously) like when the Ark burns the lettering on the crate on Kantanga's ship? It might look too western, But Raiders kind of like a western but with Nazis... (Mod. suggestion: we need an emoticon with shrugging shoulders as in "I don't know, I'm making this up as I go..." I could use that all the time)
