I just learned the Coachman's Crack over the weekend, and what good fun it is!
I've been trying to learn the Fast Figure 8 for a little while without success, so I thought I would attempt something different to mix things up.
Aside from the crack coming relatively close to one's head, I learned it without much hassle.
Linking it from the Underhand Flick and finishing into the reverse Cattleman's Crack has been pretty fun!
Just saw on one of Adam's videos that there is a reverse Overhead Crack! Now that I have to try too...then maybe back to that pesky Fast Figure 8....
The Coachman's Crack
Moderator: BullWhipBorton
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Lukes Roommate
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hollywood1340
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Re: The Coachman's Crack
Start with the slow figure 8. Once your comfortable with the alignment both forward and back, move to the fast figure eight. I've this crack works best if I do the forward crack higher then the second to maintain my momentum and energy.
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Lukes Roommate
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Re: The Coachman's Crack
Thanks for the help!
The slow figure 8 is roughed in, so to speak. It's not where I want it, but it's getting there. I was probably jumping the gun by working on the fast figure 8. It's just that usually I can see myself doing the crack, not having done it yet, and end up learning it right away.
Going to give the reverse Overhead Crack a try tonight...
The slow figure 8 is roughed in, so to speak. It's not where I want it, but it's getting there. I was probably jumping the gun by working on the fast figure 8. It's just that usually I can see myself doing the crack, not having done it yet, and end up learning it right away.
Going to give the reverse Overhead Crack a try tonight...
Re: The Coachman's Crack
For a regular overhead it's kinda easy to be lazy about it and let it throw at a diagonal plane to the ground, but when you're learning the reverse overhead, it's important to keep the whip in an overhead plane parallel to the ground, otherwise, you run the risk of smacking yourself in the back of the neck or in the head. Once you've got the mechanics and timing down, you can play with moving it a little bit out of that horizontal plane.
You can also use your whole arm in reversing the whip to crack it in a regular overhead, but for the reverse overhead, it's almost all wrist there at the end. But because of all that hairpin torque you're putting on the whip in the turnaround phase of the crack, it's a REALLY satisfying, percussive crack!
Once you've got the reverse overhead down, experiment with letting the whip follow through into the "Load phase" for a regular overhead crack. Repeating this combination of "Overhead/Reverse Overhead" makes a cool variation on the "Sidearm/Overhead" "Queensland Crossover" combination.
Have fun, and good luck!
-Dan
You can also use your whole arm in reversing the whip to crack it in a regular overhead, but for the reverse overhead, it's almost all wrist there at the end. But because of all that hairpin torque you're putting on the whip in the turnaround phase of the crack, it's a REALLY satisfying, percussive crack!
Once you've got the reverse overhead down, experiment with letting the whip follow through into the "Load phase" for a regular overhead crack. Repeating this combination of "Overhead/Reverse Overhead" makes a cool variation on the "Sidearm/Overhead" "Queensland Crossover" combination.
Have fun, and good luck!
-Dan
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Lukes Roommate
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Re: The Coachman's Crack
Thanks very much Dan, I really appreciate the tips!
Didn't get to it last night, although I got a bit more of the Coachman's crack practice in.
I'm having trouble with the forward flick, or at least performing it with any elegance.
I've been watching Adam's video on YouTube, as well as IndyMcFly's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XfAgsJ0 ... PL&index=7
Maybe my whip is still too stiff (it's an 8ft Joe Strain Raiders Anniversary, received at Christmas), but the roll shown in IndyMcFly's vid is not happening very well, possibly my technique is wayyyy off, although I feel like it's ok. I should really video myself...
Something else for me to work on before going back to the Fast Figure 8.
Didn't get to it last night, although I got a bit more of the Coachman's crack practice in.
I'm having trouble with the forward flick, or at least performing it with any elegance.
I've been watching Adam's video on YouTube, as well as IndyMcFly's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XfAgsJ0 ... PL&index=7
Maybe my whip is still too stiff (it's an 8ft Joe Strain Raiders Anniversary, received at Christmas), but the roll shown in IndyMcFly's vid is not happening very well, possibly my technique is wayyyy off, although I feel like it's ok. I should really video myself...
Something else for me to work on before going back to the Fast Figure 8.
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hollywood1340
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Re: The Coachman's Crack
Here is what I've found with the forward flick. The DeLongis flick works best for a well broken in whip and taking a couple of hours to analyze the motion to get it all together and "Get it right". It's can be an incredibly humbling and frustrating process to get a consistent crack out of it. What I'm calling the "traditional" flick can be done with a slightly stiffer whip and because the whip is in motion before the loop/hairpin it assists in accelerating it past the "load" phase. Both are dealing with alignment, one active, one static. And for BOTH I've found start on the knees and work your way up. Anthony's videos have a really good break down of how to get into that version of the forward flick and with the other just play with it and figure out the timing. Your head, shoulder, hips can all move independently so remember you can look back at your whip without screwing up your body alignment in the throw. Keep at it.
Re: The Coachman's Crack
The forward flick took me THE LONGEST to get down pat. It was just a BEAR to wrap my brain around, (this was before all of Adam's YouTube videos, or Video Basics...Tony D's videos were out there, but I didn't have them.)
What it FINALLY took for me was realizing that there are really only TWO cracks, and everything else is just a variation. The circus crack and the flick. So, if you can do a sidearm, then you can do a forward flick.
MY problem was that I smacked myself in the back of the head the first few times I tried it. That made me gunshy. Well, the problem THERE is one of those catch 22's. If you're gunshy, then you move your head, your hips, shift your weight, etc. etc. all in the attempt to avoid the whip. Doing that, moves the whip OUT of proper alignment, and on a direct collision course for YOU.
So you hit yourself again...
So you try to move to avoid it.
Wash
Rinse
Repeat.
If you can do a sidearm effectively, try this:
Start with a regular sidearm, keeping the whip as horizontal and parallel to the ground as possible. Repeat that a couple times to make sure you're in the "Pocket" for doing a sidearm.
Now, do a sidearm crack again, this time, angling the whip slightly upward. In terms of angles where straight up and down is 90 degrees, (the goal here,) and parallel to the ground, (what you just did with the sidearm,) is zero degrees, do this crack at maybe 10 degrees...
Repeat this a few times, then increase the angle. Go to 20 degrees, and 30...
By the time you get to 45, you're doing my FAVORITE crack.
There is a BIG difference in the feel between a good forward flick, and a good sidearm. You're using different muscles, and you're dealing with completely different interaction with gravity, but the mechanics of what the whip is doing are EXACTLY the same. Transitioning slowly from one to the other allows you to acclimate to that easier.
You're doing something you already know how to do, and SLOWLY making changes to it until it's become what you're having problems with. By the time you get to 90 degrees, you've also added diagonal flick cracks to your bag of tricks.
I like to do an exercise where I imagine a clock face in front of me, and I start at noon, (forward flick,) and go from 1 to 6 o'clock position, switch off to my left hand on the follow through for the underhand flick, (6 o'clock,) and then working my way back up to 12 o'clock. (this is also similar to the angles of attack in the Latigo y Daga system outlined by Anthony DeLongis in "Mastering the Bullwhip part 2" and in Tom Meadows book "The Filipino Fighting Whip.")
ANOTHER little trick to do to teach yourself the forward flick.
I've noticed that when most people are trying to learn this crack, (myself included,) the PROBLEM is that their whip is not coming out of the "Load" phase of the crack in proper alignment. It's off at some bizarre angle, so when they try to flick it forward in a vertical plane, it doesn't crack, or smacks them in the head, or any number of other things.
Now, the reason that the whip isn't in alignment is because it's starting out behind us. We're not looking back there. With a circus crack, it's a lot easier, because it's LOADING in front of you on the upswing where you can see it, and then it's coming back down, (in a 180 degree arc,) A flick crack loads BEHIND you and then comes forward in a circular motion, (a full 360 motion.*) It's when it's behind you that things go wrong.
In order to keep the whip in a straight alignment, so that it is not moving at bizarre angles, practice beside a wall, or a fence, or even along a sidewalk. Use those natural lines as guides. I used to stand in the yard by the house, my "Whip Side" shoulder about 3 foot from the house. Now, let the whip stretch out behind you, sliding across the grass/floor, but don't let it hit the wall. When your hand is about at shoulder height behind you, move the hand in a relatively straight line at shoulder height out in front of you and let the whip follow, (that's the secret with flick cracks. With circus and overhead cracks, the whip really LEADs the hand. With flick cracks, the hand moves forward before the whip does.)
Practicing against a wall FORCES that whip to stay in a proper alignment.
I find as well that if you practice standing on the very edge of a sidewalk with you COMPLETELY on the paving, and the whip on the grass, that helps immensely as well. REALLY reinforces that "Train Tracks" method a lot of folks teach. Keep the whip in the grass, and you OFF the grass, and your chances of smacking yourself are greatly reduced.
Hope that convoluted bit of info helps a bit.
All the best, and happy cracking!
-Dan
* as an addendum, I'd like to add that for almost every type of crack we describe here, the whip's motion can be described as moving in 360 degree motions. For the "reverse" family of cracks, (the circus crack, the overhead, the figure 8's etc.) the motion IS 360 degrees, but the direction is REVERSED halfway through the crack. We swing it up and then down. For flick cracks, the motion is a full 360 degrees, what are called in Latigo y Daga, escrima, and sword circles as "redondo" movements. With a whip, however, rather than being totally circular, these motions are elliptical. Like the orbit of planets, and how we believe that electrons orbit the nucleus of atoms. A bit of whip trivia that I find to be VERY poetic from a whip artistry perspective. -D-
What it FINALLY took for me was realizing that there are really only TWO cracks, and everything else is just a variation. The circus crack and the flick. So, if you can do a sidearm, then you can do a forward flick.
MY problem was that I smacked myself in the back of the head the first few times I tried it. That made me gunshy. Well, the problem THERE is one of those catch 22's. If you're gunshy, then you move your head, your hips, shift your weight, etc. etc. all in the attempt to avoid the whip. Doing that, moves the whip OUT of proper alignment, and on a direct collision course for YOU.
So you hit yourself again...
So you try to move to avoid it.
Wash
Rinse
Repeat.
If you can do a sidearm effectively, try this:
Start with a regular sidearm, keeping the whip as horizontal and parallel to the ground as possible. Repeat that a couple times to make sure you're in the "Pocket" for doing a sidearm.
Now, do a sidearm crack again, this time, angling the whip slightly upward. In terms of angles where straight up and down is 90 degrees, (the goal here,) and parallel to the ground, (what you just did with the sidearm,) is zero degrees, do this crack at maybe 10 degrees...
Repeat this a few times, then increase the angle. Go to 20 degrees, and 30...
By the time you get to 45, you're doing my FAVORITE crack.
There is a BIG difference in the feel between a good forward flick, and a good sidearm. You're using different muscles, and you're dealing with completely different interaction with gravity, but the mechanics of what the whip is doing are EXACTLY the same. Transitioning slowly from one to the other allows you to acclimate to that easier.
You're doing something you already know how to do, and SLOWLY making changes to it until it's become what you're having problems with. By the time you get to 90 degrees, you've also added diagonal flick cracks to your bag of tricks.
I like to do an exercise where I imagine a clock face in front of me, and I start at noon, (forward flick,) and go from 1 to 6 o'clock position, switch off to my left hand on the follow through for the underhand flick, (6 o'clock,) and then working my way back up to 12 o'clock. (this is also similar to the angles of attack in the Latigo y Daga system outlined by Anthony DeLongis in "Mastering the Bullwhip part 2" and in Tom Meadows book "The Filipino Fighting Whip.")
ANOTHER little trick to do to teach yourself the forward flick.
I've noticed that when most people are trying to learn this crack, (myself included,) the PROBLEM is that their whip is not coming out of the "Load" phase of the crack in proper alignment. It's off at some bizarre angle, so when they try to flick it forward in a vertical plane, it doesn't crack, or smacks them in the head, or any number of other things.
Now, the reason that the whip isn't in alignment is because it's starting out behind us. We're not looking back there. With a circus crack, it's a lot easier, because it's LOADING in front of you on the upswing where you can see it, and then it's coming back down, (in a 180 degree arc,) A flick crack loads BEHIND you and then comes forward in a circular motion, (a full 360 motion.*) It's when it's behind you that things go wrong.
In order to keep the whip in a straight alignment, so that it is not moving at bizarre angles, practice beside a wall, or a fence, or even along a sidewalk. Use those natural lines as guides. I used to stand in the yard by the house, my "Whip Side" shoulder about 3 foot from the house. Now, let the whip stretch out behind you, sliding across the grass/floor, but don't let it hit the wall. When your hand is about at shoulder height behind you, move the hand in a relatively straight line at shoulder height out in front of you and let the whip follow, (that's the secret with flick cracks. With circus and overhead cracks, the whip really LEADs the hand. With flick cracks, the hand moves forward before the whip does.)
Practicing against a wall FORCES that whip to stay in a proper alignment.
I find as well that if you practice standing on the very edge of a sidewalk with you COMPLETELY on the paving, and the whip on the grass, that helps immensely as well. REALLY reinforces that "Train Tracks" method a lot of folks teach. Keep the whip in the grass, and you OFF the grass, and your chances of smacking yourself are greatly reduced.
Hope that convoluted bit of info helps a bit.
All the best, and happy cracking!
-Dan
* as an addendum, I'd like to add that for almost every type of crack we describe here, the whip's motion can be described as moving in 360 degree motions. For the "reverse" family of cracks, (the circus crack, the overhead, the figure 8's etc.) the motion IS 360 degrees, but the direction is REVERSED halfway through the crack. We swing it up and then down. For flick cracks, the motion is a full 360 degrees, what are called in Latigo y Daga, escrima, and sword circles as "redondo" movements. With a whip, however, rather than being totally circular, these motions are elliptical. Like the orbit of planets, and how we believe that electrons orbit the nucleus of atoms. A bit of whip trivia that I find to be VERY poetic from a whip artistry perspective. -D-
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Lukes Roommate
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Re: The Coachman's Crack
Thanks again everyone for your help. This place is so great for friendly, helpful advice!
Dan, this bit:
Now, I can do a forward flick, problem is whether or not I'm doing it correctly as it just doesn't feel like I am.
I see Adam's video and my flick looks nothing like that. But mine is going forward, and it get's a crack (usually).
Adam's and IndyMcfly's are both in the verticle while mine is slightly on an angle, and again, from my perspective of being the whip wielder, it just doesn't look like Adam's.
I'm probably not making any sense, but with the tips you guys have provided, I'm going to work on it. I have a week off starting on Friday so hopefully I will be getting lots of practice in!
Dan, this bit:
That is dead on to what I was thinking about yesterday when puzzling over how to approach it as I can do an underhand and sidearm flick."There is a BIG difference in the feel between a good forward flick, and a good sidearm. You're using different muscles, and you're dealing with completely different interaction with gravity, but the mechanics of what the whip is doing are EXACTLY the same. Transitioning slowly from one to the other allows you to acclimate to that easier. "
Now, I can do a forward flick, problem is whether or not I'm doing it correctly as it just doesn't feel like I am.
I see Adam's video and my flick looks nothing like that. But mine is going forward, and it get's a crack (usually).
Adam's and IndyMcfly's are both in the verticle while mine is slightly on an angle, and again, from my perspective of being the whip wielder, it just doesn't look like Adam's.
I'm probably not making any sense, but with the tips you guys have provided, I'm going to work on it. I have a week off starting on Friday so hopefully I will be getting lots of practice in!
Re: The Coachman's Crack
Does it feel more like you're throwing it out and kind of pulling it up short to get it to crack. Instead of rolling the hairpin down the whip like Adam does? If so then I totally get what you mean, Im there right now. Adams crack looks very fluid while mine seems... violent
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hollywood1340
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Re: The Coachman's Crack
Should be a movement from the rear to the front with NO pullback of any kind. The whips should do the work. Allow me to restate that for emphasis. The whip should do the work. Practice 
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Lukes Roommate
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Re: The Coachman's Crack
Rawvoodoo, it doesn't feel like that, but I know what you mean.
The whip is one motion forward, I don't pull back.
I went out last night and adjusted some things in my arm motion and placement and things went a lot better.
It still doesn't feel like Adam's flick looks like, his seems to have a more arcing, bigger loop snap to it, almost like he's fly fishing
I'll continue to tweak and take all of your advice in trying to get this crack to a point where I'm happy with it.
Hopefully it looks like Adam's flick one day
The whip is one motion forward, I don't pull back.
I went out last night and adjusted some things in my arm motion and placement and things went a lot better.
It still doesn't feel like Adam's flick looks like, his seems to have a more arcing, bigger loop snap to it, almost like he's fly fishing
I'll continue to tweak and take all of your advice in trying to get this crack to a point where I'm happy with it.
Hopefully it looks like Adam's flick one day
Re: The Coachman's Crack
I think I'm having better luck with Indymcfly's method of starting behind you. I've caught a couple good ones in the neck trying Adams style. Though I haven't had a chance to try the sidewalk idea yet.
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Lukes Roommate
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Re: The Coachman's Crack
I've been practicing Adams method all week while on vacation with great success!
It looks, cracks and feels right! Going to keep at it and start on a few other cracks while
on vacation...
It looks, cracks and feels right! Going to keep at it and start on a few other cracks while
on vacation...
Re: The Coachman's Crack
Thats great Lukes Roommate! Sounds like your vacation really did the trick. I have one coming in a 2 weeks. I can get it to crack but it always seems to come out on a diagonal. I think I need more practice, a whip thats not so darn stiff and what the heck an 8' whip made by someone higher up the braid so to speak, in that order. I'm currently using a 6' arturo and it just doesn't (yet?) flow and curl like an 8'.
Oh and after looking at the subject on this thread. Congrats on the coachmans. That ones got me stumped.
Oh and after looking at the subject on this thread. Congrats on the coachmans. That ones got me stumped.
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hollywood1340
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Re: The Coachman's Crack
Don't think of it as something new. Nothing is. The coachmans is simply a cattlemans with different timing and direction. Nothing more.
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Lukes Roommate
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Re: The Coachman's Crack
Thanks rawvoodoo!
I gave the Tasmanian Cutback some work for the first time today and was successful. I need to work on my form, and half the time I'm wrapping my arm or hitting my head (need more flexibility in my arm going back), but I got a few nice, smooth cracks out of it.
It's been a really good week! Must be because of the vacation and that I've been so relaxed
I gave the Tasmanian Cutback some work for the first time today and was successful. I need to work on my form, and half the time I'm wrapping my arm or hitting my head (need more flexibility in my arm going back), but I got a few nice, smooth cracks out of it.
It's been a really good week! Must be because of the vacation and that I've been so relaxed
Re: The Coachman's Crack
Sorry your vacation is over, glad mine is coming. 
I think Ive got Indymcfly's flick now (and with it my first succsessful cairo flash). I can do it without much effort and can kinda control the volume. I'm getting the idea behind the coachmans too. Im just having problems "balancing" the loop if that makes any sense. I too tried the tasmanian cutback but with much less stellar results. It's stuck right there with the reverse overhead as something that will look like im having a spasm and end in pain.
I think Ive got Indymcfly's flick now (and with it my first succsessful cairo flash). I can do it without much effort and can kinda control the volume. I'm getting the idea behind the coachmans too. Im just having problems "balancing" the loop if that makes any sense. I too tried the tasmanian cutback but with much less stellar results. It's stuck right there with the reverse overhead as something that will look like im having a spasm and end in pain.
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Lukes Roommate
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Re: The Coachman's Crack
lolIt's stuck right there with the reverse overhead as something that will look like im having a spasm and end in pain.
Yup, that about sums up the reverse overhead that I've tried a few times!
Congrats on the Cairo Flash!
It's always really neat learning a new crack. It's like a puzzle that gets unlocked, everything comes together and BAM, you can do it.
Good luck with the Coachman's crack, once you get it, it flows very easily from there on out, and enjoy your vacation!