Local Land Surveyors Ribbon

[Spatterdash]

I just got four feet of Schiff grosgrain ribbon from Local Land Surveyor (usually called LLS for short 'round these parts) and folks, lemme tell ya, Fedora ain't lyin' when he says LLS got the shade down.

It has the color of burnt coffee, the perfect balance of black/brown you'd want on an Indy Fedora.

So if you are wanting to get some ribbon, and the security measures and bodyguards at Adventurebilt and Penman are too intense for the real thing, LLS grosgrain Indy ribbon is the ticket.

For those who love hatmaking in general, this would also be a nice colored ribbon on most brown, tan and natural hue felts.

[Kentucky Blues]

Sounds awesome! Nice to hear a review from someone other than the source! (not that LLS has given us any reason not to trust him)

-KB

[kwad]

Thanks for the review Spatterdash!

Sounds like just what I need for my Fed IV (the factory bow work on it is HORRIBLE looking. All lumpy and wrinkled....).
I've tried PM'ing LLS about ordering some, but never got a reply.
Just sent him an email. I hope he gets it.

[Spatterdash]

Sounds awesome! Nice to hear a review from someone other than the source! (not that LLS has given us any reason not to trust him)

-KB

Happy, more than happy to do so!

And to clarify, this stuff is quality cotton/rayon hat ribbon, the real thing with a finished edge, not that saw-tooth edge you get on Petersham.

The only way to get closer would be an all-rayon vintage ribbon, and I'm sure Steve and Marc could tell you what a near impossibility it is to get that stuff.
Reading through past comments, you can tell that Schiff requires a massive minimum purchase (hundreds of yards or more) and that LLS did a lot of homework and research to get the exact shade.

His efforts are obvious in this ribbon, and this Indy-nut is glad he did business with him.

[BendingOak]

The Indy ribbon that steve , marc and myself is just like the pure rayon vintage ribbon. Even the thread count is the same. The only thing different about ribbon we use and vintage is that it is being made today.

And thank you for making us sound like we are doing something wrong.

[Kentucky Blues]

That's a good point, but the fact remains that it is hard to get

-KB

[Spatterdash]

The Indy ribbon that steve , marc and myself is just like the pure rayon vintage ribbon. Even the thread count is the same. The only thing different about ribbon we use and vintage is that it is being made today.

And thank you for making us sound like we are doing something wrong.

You just lost me completely.

The efforts that Steve and Marc went through to get "The ribbon" are well-known, as is Steve's frustration at the cost of the stuff.
It is essentially an impossibility for regular fans to get.

I meant to drive home the fact that a.) the ribbon is insanely hard to get and b.) LLS has a fantastic option for those of us who can't.


I don't get what you are doing wrong, or what I wrote that made it seem you guys did something wrong, or what.
My god, I purchased the LLS ribbon because Steve said the color was such a close match.
I am totally confused how I gave offense by praising this supplier.

[Kentucky Blues]

I don't think Oak was taking offense by your statement, but rather pointing out that the stuff they use is in fact not vintage. It's identical to the vintage stuff, but he wanted to clarify that, expensive as it is for them, it is something they are currently having produced, rather than actually being old stock vintage ribbon.

-KB

[Spatterdash]

Kentucky, how does using new ribbon made exactly like vintage equate to "doing something wrong"?

To my knowledge, Steve, marc and Oak are using the best there is, and the best us regular folks can get is the stuff provided by LLS, which is excellent in and of itself.

[Kentucky Blues]

Kentucky, how does using new ribbon made exactly like vintage equate to "doing something wrong"?

To my knowledge, Steve, marc and Oak are using the best there is, and the best us regular folks can get is the stuff provided by LLS, which is excellent in and of itself.

Yeah, I just re-read his post, I don't believe that last part was there the first time I read it.

BendingOak, I don't think Spatterdash was trying to make you three look bad, just trying to spread praise to the man who's making it easier on those of us who can't get our hands on the real deal for one reason or another.

-KB

Edit: Woah, wait a minute, looks like your post was edited too, Spatterdash. The bodyguards and security statement, while seemingly sarcastic in nature, could easily be mistaken for an honest display of distaste for their practices. I would throw in an "lol" smiley to help get your point across.

[DR Ulloa]

I think it was your comment about security measures and body guards at AB and Penman. Honestly, I agree. No one has the right to judge what one company does with their product. That ribbon, its manufacturer and all that is proprietary. If you want it, buy a hat from Penman or AB. Nothing wrong with getting the ribbon from Garrison. I think Garrison is supplying that ribbon to nice nitch that he fills perfectly. Since we cannot get only the ribbon from John or Steve or Marc, David comes through in spades, but it doesn't mean that the "security measures" or "bodyguards" at Penman and AB are something to complain about.

Dave

[Spatterdash]

Edit: Woah, wait a minute, looks like your post was edited too, Spatterdash. The bodyguards and security statement, while seemingly sarcastic in nature, could easily be mistaken for an honest display of distaste for their practices. I would throw in an "lol" smiley to help get your point across.

No, that was in there the first time, my edit was to correct a spelling error.

As for the joke, I couldn't see the bodyguards comment being taken seriously. I've read comments on espionage, trying to learn the exact measurements of steve's block to the nearest 1/16th inch, undercover operations, etc., all said in good humor and taken as such.

It was an obvious joke. Bodyguards - seriously?
I can't imagine that being seen as a sincere evaluation.

If that ruffled feathers, it was not intended to. It's common knowledge among the regulars that the true ribbon was difficult to get and is highly prized.
Let me clear this up IF that is the case.
You three hatmakers (Steve, Marc and Oak) are well known and respected for good cause. Your efforts and your need to keep certain things in-house are things I understand completely. Like many, I'd love to know everything and have access to all of it, but it is an impossibility, so I joke as I've seen others do.

That was what I was doing.

I have a block coming from Ohio Jones soon. I was gonna post a review of that as well. I'll avoid any nuance or humor in that post.
Despite being here since 2003, I don't think I post enough to allow myself any levity.

Also, LLS makes a great ribbon.

[Kentucky Blues]

I wasn't suggesting that your bodyguards comment was taken as a genuine belief, but rather that it expressed a genuine distaste. IE, you didn't believe there really were bodyguards, but you used the word bodyguards to suggest that you thought they were doing something wrong by making it so hard for us to get. Now, that's not your opinion (better not be! ) but it could've been taken that way.

And I apologize about your edit. I was actually thinking about what you said in your SECOND post, and thought that's what you had said in your FIRST post, and thus thought that the edit was to change that. That was completely my fault

-KB

[DR Ulloa]

That is how I took the comment, not literal bodyguards, and I'm sure that I how John took it as well. Just didn't seem like a joke to me. Now that I know so, don't think its funny either, but whatever. At least that settles that.

Dave

[Spatterdash]

I have no distaste whatsoever for either Adventurebilt or Penman hats. Their wares and practices have my complete respect.

I was trying for a laugh.

I'm gonna guess there actually have been some serious attacks on them if my quips have caused such an uproar.

Gad. All I wanted to do was make a light-hearted and enthusiastic review.

[DR Ulloa]

Point taken. And yes, there have been some comments made about them not sharing their ribbon. That's why I took it so seriously and I'm sure why John did as well. Not your fault you didin't know about it. And a review of LLS's ribbon is needed as it is a product I'm sure many people will be interested in.

Dave

[Kentucky Blues]

Eh, it happens. 'Tis the way of the internet, things get taken the wrong way and something happens as a result. Best recovery is to clarify and move on (check and check )

So yeah, that stuff looks pretty good. I just need to get me a hat that needs a new ribbon and I'll be all set to buy some

-KB

[Spatterdash]

No! God, no, I had no frikkin' clue.

Gentlemen, I wanted to point out a great ribbon from a really nice supplier, one that I noticed due to Steve's recommendation.
I had no idea anyone had given grief over the ribbon that these hatters went through Hades to get, and I would never have made a joke if I'd known that was such a sensitive subject.

I figured if anyone knew and respected the hardships hatters go through on technique, materials and sales, it would be the Indy crowd.

I was clueless and offer my complete apologies.

[BendingOak]

To be clear I didn't take it as there were real body guards but the way it was stated and the intense comment just seems a little less like a joke and more like getting tagged. when it comes to the ribbon I'm a bit tired of people telling me what I have like they know better than I do and maybe that's my baggage that I brought into here after reading that comment. For that I am sorry.

John

[binkmeisterRick]

It sounds like everyone here needs to step back, take a breath, and share a drink. Welcome to the internet, where the typed word more than often loses the art of vocal inflection and true intent. No point in continuing to make mountains out of molehills here. LLS offers a great ribbon, as do Steve and John. Let's bygones be bygones and get this thread back on the rails.

[Fedora]

Heck, I thought the comment about the security was funny!

And yes, the LLS ribbon is good stuff too. And he only has several thouand yards of it! Plenty to go around for you guys needing an accurate Indy color.

I think I brought up LLS's ribbon, as I knew that he had bought several thousand yards of this ribbon. He sent me a sample, and I figured you guys here would be served well by LLS, and it would also help him out too, in storage space!

So, we now have a hatter that will also sell you the right color ribbon for those Indy fedoras. I think it is great myself. Plus, LLS's wife won't nag him, and she might be able to reclaim her living room over time. I can only imagine the look on her face when hundreds of rolls arrived! Bet it was a Kodak moment. And that it was hard for LLS to put his fedora on the next day.........with all of the new knots on his head.

[Dalexs]

Yeah, I gotta agree with Fedora on this one. I read that initial post and thought it was pretty funny too.

If you search, you'll see that, along with Fedora and Dakota Ellison, I was one of the folks early on around here searching for and trying to perfect the ribbon the old fashioned way, dying it ourselves...
Back in the early 2000's (thats sounds kinda weird, huh!) we didn't have the resources you guys have today.

Be thankful that some have stepped up and taken it upon themselves to provide us with the quality and perfection we've been looking for. It's their right to be protective.

It looks like LLS got my body guards and stole the secret RIT recipe!

Really guys, like Bink said, take a step back... it's only ribbon.
And it's been one of the hardest things I've seen to nail down since I've been involved in this hobby.
And it nice to see that you guys finally have a go to option!

Dalexs

[Local Land Surveyor]

I just got four feet of Schiff grosgrain ribbon from Local Land Surveyor (usually called LLS for short 'round these parts) and folks, lemme tell ya, Fedora ain't lyin' when he says LLS got the shade down.

It has the color of burnt coffee, the perfect balance of black/brown you'd want on an Indy Fedora.

Thank you, Spatterdash. I am pleased it meets your expectations.

(usually called LLS for short 'round these parts)

That's Short Round.

Sounds awesome! Nice to hear a review from someone other than the source! (not that LLS has given us any reason not to trust him)

Trust me. Lavar Burton says "...but don't take my word for it. Listen to what these kids thought." Yes, I watched Reading Rainbow.

To echo what I posted in the Vendor Section, I wanted screen accurate ribbon. What I also wanted was to have unlimited access both to high quality ribbon, wanted a place accessable that, if I wanted to, I could visit the factory that makes my ribbon. Just like I do with my felt supplier. Over seas was not an option. I put alot of study into ribbon and ribbon making. I spent weeks in conducting dye tests way before I sent sample to Schiff. This ribbon had to meet my expectations with knowing full well that the fan base out there would really be the ultimate critic. Steve Delk (Fedora) educated me on the ribbon that he, Marc and John use. I made a clear decision that I was not going that way. I wanted more personal control over the ribbon of my choice. I did not want to infringe on the discoveries that Marc and Steve had done. My decision alone. Steve Delk tought me hat making, but I don't make hats that are exact copies of Steve's. I use different materials than Steve and I use technics that are completely different than Steve's.
To quote Elvis from one of my favorite songs he covered "I did it my way." It was not untill recently that I realized that I could offer to fans the option to have a ribbon redo service. Check out my post in the vendor section. If folks want some ribbon to replace on their hat or if they wanted me to replace the ribbon to a more screen accurate look, I could do this for them.

It looks like LLS got my body guards and stole the secret RIT recipe!

Just ask my wife and daughter on this one, Dalex. I got a combination down and would be very happy. I would make another batch and it would be off. Back to the drawing board. I did this for weeks. I finally had a color to match and sent that to Schiff. Then it started all over again. Schiff has some very good folks. They got it to my likings. Every step I made, I learned something. Beside, the deal with bodyguards, I have learned how to deal with them. Burn Notice has very good advice. Go Micheal Weston.

LLS

[Kentucky Blues]

Back in the early 2000's (thats sounds kinda weird, huh!) we didn't have the resources you guys have today.

How about "back in the earlier part of the century?"

-KB

[Dalexs]

Back in the early 2000's (thats sounds kinda weird, huh!) we didn't have the resources you guys have today.

How about "back in the earlier part of the century?"

-KB

Great! Now you're just making me sound old!

Beside, the deal with bodyhuard, I have learned how to deal with them. Burn Notice has very good advice. Go Micheal Weston.

LLS

Excellant show!

The only thing I never learned in the process, was to replace my white stove with a black one, so that when my wife came home, she wouldn't notice the mess so much!

Keep up the good work!

Dalexs

[Local Land Surveyor]

Great! Now you're just making me sound old!

Not old, Dalex ..... VINTAGE. That is meant as a compliment of improvement. If it didn't, it was suppose to.
Or else,

Excellant show!

The only thing I never learned in the process, was to replace my white stove with a black one, so that when my wife came home, she wouldn't notice the mess so much!

Keep up the good work!

Dalexs

How about that. My stove is black. Never thought about that.
Thanks for the compliment, Dalex.

So, we now have a hatter that will also sell you the right color ribbon for those Indy fedoras. I think it is great myself. Plus, LLS's wife won't nag him, and she might be able to reclaim her living room over time. I can only imagine the look on her face when hundreds of rolls arrived!

She was more relieved that I wasn't over the stove all the time and cussing. We just pretend its furniture now.
LLS