A question for those who've been around for the longest....

[Kentucky Blues]

I'd like to know a little bit about the history of the Federation (specifically the deluxe), prior to the Fed IV. I've seen the pre-Fed IV referred to as Fed III, but I can't seem to find for sure if it's actually the third version of the hat, or if it was just dubbed "Fed III" in contrast to the Fed IV (was the fed IV really the fourth version, or was it named as such because it was inspired by the fourth movie?). Up until the Fed IV came out, all I heard was Federation and Federation deluxe, no different versions, which is what brings me concern. If in fact there were two other versions to come before the Fed III, what are the differences between them?

I have what I'm 95% certain is one of the ORIGINAL Federation Deluxes, which was my first fur felt indy lid that I bought off of a member here back in 2003. Seeing as how that was pretty early in the Federations History, is there anything much different about my hat than other Federation Deluxes? Has anyone owned Fed Dlxes. with a few years inbetween them before the Fed IV came out, and do you notice a difference?

The main reason I'm asking, is my old Fed Deluxe is fine as a "work-where-something-is-likely-to-destroy-even-an-AB" hat, but not much else. Basically, some young kid who didn't know much about felt hats at the time (we'll just call him Bentucky Klues for anonymity's sake ) stretched the raiders pinch really long and tight, and couldn't stop poking the thin spot until it turned into a hole, which then turned into a rip in the crown. That same kid later removed the ribbon, and undid the sweatband. While it offers great ventilation, and the brim/most of the crown still looks decent, it's just not that wearable in public. Because of how well it's held up (and lets face it, for the sake of nostalgia too), however, I'd like to own another one just like it, and I may very well have the option of buying a Fed Deluxe III in the near future. But I need to know for sure that I'll be getting essentially the same hat, rather than, well, something different, before I make the buy. So if anyone can fill me in on differences among the Feds between 2002 and 2008, that would be most greatly appreciated!

-Daryl

[Indiana Jeff]

Contacting Ron at Hats Direct is probably your best bet. He worked directly with Akubra to make the Fed IV and I presume the Fed III.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Michaelson]

The original Fed I was created when Steve Delk and I contacted Ron regarding creating a fedora that could be used as an Indy fedora. At the time Steve and _ were using AKubra Campdraft Featherweight hats and creating their own. HatsDirect was found to have the best prices on Akubras, and a working relationship began at that time between Ron, Steve, and myself.

Ron agreed, with the stipulation that it had to be a more generic open crown design, as he had a lot of Swing Dancers who were also looking for fedoras, and he wanted to cover all bases. It also had to be called the Federation, in honor of the Centinennal of the Federation of England/Canada/Australia. This was in about 2001 or so. (You Aussie's can correct me on the date if I'm wrong. Too much water under the bridge since then.) The Fed 1 came out, did not have a dimensional cut, and had a red liner. It was first revealed at the 2002 QM summit.

KB, if your fedora has a red liner, then you have an original. BUT, that said, the white liners were mixed in the second or third run as folks were asking for them, so you could still be in the Fed I grouping.

The Fed II came out with a dimensional brim cut and white crown liner after folks asked for the brim cut, and wanted the liner to more reflect what was seen in the filmhats. The red liner was retired. A Deluxe version was made, but not openly sold. They wanted to see how the Fed I standard sold before offering it outright.

The Fed III was the introduction of the Fed and Fed Deluxe having dimensional brim cut, white crown liner, and the Deluxe having the better mix/pounce of the two. The Deluxe became a line item at that time.

The Fed IV was the re-introduction of the two grades, but blocked using an original pre-war set of Akubra blocks that matched a sample block sent by Steve Delk to compare to in making a close example of a hat that matched the CS style non-taper.

Hope this helps you sort it out more. Steve and Ron can fill in any details I forgot (or mixed up ) We're talking about 9 years of changes here.

KB, based on your date and the timeline above, I'd say you have a Fed I 1/2, as it may have been one of the intro Fed Deluxes Ron was trying out before offering it outright in the Fed II lineup. Just a guess on my part, though.

If you can get hold of a Fed III, pre Fed IV, I think you'll have a comparible hat to your original purchase. Sometimes Ron finds them still in stock. Drop him a line and ask if he still has one in your size. The Fed I and Fed II are LONG gone from stock. The Fed IV is a different block all together.

Regards! Michaelson

[Kentucky Blues]

It sounds like I have a Fed Deluxe III then. It had a white liner, and has a dimensional cut. Or as you say, it could be a Fed I 1/2 (I I/II? ) I know I bought it from good 'ol IndyDawg (who i coulda sworn was on the original "team" of people working on these), and Yes, I know Ron's the guy to talk to... but actually it was Jenny who already informed me that they actually have my size in a Fed Deluxe III in stock

Thanks for the help, Michaelson!

KB

[Michaelson]

My friend, if you got it from Dawg, that IS the prototype Deluxe. I was the one who assembled the committee who inspected the hat. Due to it's size, we told Dawg to keep it.

Steve, Ron and I were the ones who did the project. We invited Dawg and MK to inspect the hat when it came off the line as neutral inspectors. MK was the COW webmaster at the time.

So, treat that one with respect. It is the original, first Deluxe ever made that got it all started when it came to the Deluxe Fed line.

It's Fed Deluxe I!

Regards! Michaelson

[Kentucky Blues]

WOW! As of this moment, I must officially retire that hat then! I wish I could say it was in much better condition... perhaps it could at least be reblocked. I had no idea it was so special at the time I bought it, especially considering the low price I paid... I know I have the ribbon, I hope I still have the liner.... and I pray I'm not giving anyone heart attacks with the newly found insight into the hats condition.....

-KB

[Michaelson]

Hey, hat's were made to be used. I'd be more disappointed if I heard you had it squirreled away in a closet. Personally I'm tickled to hear it's lead such a long and productive life!

If you get it rebuilt, please let Steve Delk do it. I think he'd get a charge seeing it again.

Regards !Michaelson

[Joeyeah_right]

;0




Joe

[Michaelson]

He got 'cha, KB!

Regards! Michaelson

[Kentucky Blues]

Okay, pics coming up soon... But I must say, I think it got most of it's adventure-wear AFTER it obtained most of it's damage. Didn't have too many adventures when I was younger, just wore the hat alot and played with the pinch too much. It did sustain many "tests" to determine durability with flying colors, though

KB

Edit: Photos

Not too bad looking from THIS angle...


Turns out I only have the bow... not the whole original ribbon


Close up of the Rip...


From the back


Inside back


Inside Front


-KB (again)

[Joeyeah_right]

Wow! Nice pics! That hat has certainly seen it's share of adventures!

Joe

[Baldwyn]

I have two Akubra Federations I! I don't recall the red liner versions, but remember when Steve and Michaelson worked to have these brought to us. Man, you youngin's have no idea how hard it was to get an Indy-like fedora back in those days First Michaelson brought us Peter Bros (my first fedora), and than this group effort to bring us the Federation. One Fed has a white liner, the other gold! The white liner was had been shipped bashed and then the bash taken out. When I complained, HatsDirect sent out the second, free of charge. I was so scared of doing the dimensional cut and bash myself, they were boxed for many years before I worked up the courage to do the first. The second is still uncut and only had a tentative bash once! The first was cut Swales' style, by eye (and I knowingly cut mine narrower because I thought it suits me better) and Deborah Noodelmanized. It makes a great stand in hat, I think, and the felt and construction are excellent for the price, and for a factory hat!

[Michaelson]

Man, I totally forgot about those gold liners!

Regards! Michaelson

[Baldwyn]

Man, I totally forgot about those gold liners!

Regards! Michaelson

Thank goodness, I was questioning whether my memory was failing me

[scot2525]

KB it looks like you and possibly IndyDawg share the same size small head that I do. Is that a size 55?

[Kentucky Blues]

KB it looks like you and possibly IndyDawg share the same size small head that I do. Is that a size 55?

Yes! But I believe part of the reason I got this so cheaply (or at all for that matter, considering the near mint condition it was in at the time) is that IndyDawg is actually NOT a 55. Come to think of it, I think I was aware before that you were the same size as me . . . have I at anytime in the past pestered you about the possibility of buying a hat off of you? Or maybe pestered you about hats in general because of your size? Somehow it seems familiar...

-KB

[scot2525]

KB it looks like you and possibly IndyDawg share the same size small head that I do. Is that a size 55?

Yes! But I believe part of the reason I got this so cheaply (or at all for that matter, considering the near mint condition it was in at the time) is that IndyDawg is actually NOT a 55. Come to think of it, I think I was aware before that you were the same size as me . . . have I at anytime in the past pestered you about the possibility of buying a hat off of you? Or maybe pestered you about hats in general because of your size? Somehow it seems familiar...

-KB

Not that I can recall KB, I only have one Indy style hat for myself. It is a Fed IV standard I purchased 2 years ago. It is a great hat but it just doesn't work for me. It sits on a hat stand 99% of the time. I know that I need a custom made Indy hat to work for me and my first attempt at that failed.

[Kentucky Blues]

I know what you mean... the fed IV just looks wider and shorter than I think an Indy hat should, with too narrow a brim, and it just lacked in comparison to my (now legendary, I find out) old0 Fed Deluxe... which is why I'm so happy that I'll soon be getting one just like it! But I also can maybe see a custom hat in my future, for no other real reason that I want that velvety look that only beaver or beaver blend can achieve, so I can see your point there too

-KB

[Michaelson]

Yeah, in looking at the photos, I believe it's earned a well deserved retirement. There's nothing Steve can do about that hole in the front, so just put it back together the best you can and store it away.

It's done it's job, and very well!

Regards! Michaelson

[binkmeisterRick]

What do you mean it's done? Now it's the perfect Beverly Hillbillies hat!

[Michaelson]

As I recall, the only vendors we were dealing with at the time were Akubras from HatsDirect and the ones you picked up at David Morgans....and Millers from Canada.

The ones you were putting ribbons on were Campdraft featherweights. They were the ones with the vent holes in the crown, remember?

Regards! Michaelson

[Michaelson]

I KNEW that would ring a bell for you.

Regards! Michaelson

[Fedora]

Man, you youngin's have no idea how hard it was to get an Indy-like fedora back in those days F

Gosh, ain't that the TRUTH. The times have changed that is for sure. So many great Indy hats on the market today. But, that wasn't always the case. _, Pyro and me used to have to make our own, using existing hats. It led me into hatting. Seems like a LONG time ago today.

_ was the guy who told us fans how to do the dimensional cut on our hats. So, he taught me. I think he took an Akubra to a hatter when he lived in the North West and the hatter showed him how to do it. I recall _ saying to smooth the cut with a towel. Never tried that, but I recall him saying it, per the hatter's advice.

Marc and I learned how to make hats, right here on COW! From a variety of folks like _ and Pyro. Those really were the good old days, now in hindsight. It was an exciting time in Indy Gear to me, as we were having to do alot of the hat thing ourselves. And who would have thought that this would lead to us making the actual film hats for another Indy film? The Indy fans gave back is how I see it.

Michaelson you remember more than me on the original Federation. But, it came back when you gave the history. Glad you keep up with stuff like this!

[Michaelson]

I can't remember where I put my car keys most days, but for some weird reason I remember this kind of stuff.

Regards! Michaelson

[Dr._J]

I can't remember where I put my car keys most days, but for some weird reason I remember this kind of stuff.

Regards! Michaelson

Just leave your keys in an old hat. Problem solved!

[Michaelson]

[Kentucky Blues]

Yeah, I figured the hole would be a problem If I ever get a custom after I get my new Federation, I may have to go ahead and put a hole in the new fed! I'm firm on my decision to retire the old hat, but man, I'm going to miss the ventilation! I must say, for that very reason, I wish I'd been around in the old buy a campdraft and turn it into an indy hat days, 'cause it sounds like it was a great hat bing featherweight with vent holes.

-KB

[Michaelson]

Uh, you can still put vent holds in the side of any hat crown with a leather punch. Just remove the liner, punch two or three parallel holes on each side of the crown just above the ribbon (your choice of hole size. Mine are around 3/16" or so), spray a little felt stiffner or ladies hair spray on the inside of the crown around the holes so they won't fray, and wear the hat.

I've done it with a couple beaver AB's and worn them that way for years during the summer. They've both been reblocked, and no problems at all.

Just saying.....

Regards! Michaelson

[Kentucky Blues]

Yeah, but come on! You can't compete with ventilation that hat above provides! The front of the hat might as well not be there! But I supposed vent holes on the sides would look better than a big rip...

-KB

[Michaelson]

SURE I can. Just cut the entire top off the crown and let your noggin hang out!

Regards! Michaelson

[Kentucky Blues]

Hmm... tempting... I believe Abbott and Costello tried that with an offering from the Susquehanna Hat Company...

-KB

[Michaelson]

[Indydawg]

I had to just laugh reading through these...to quote Mr, Keating, "thank you for the stroll down amnesia lane." Yeah....I discovered pretty quickly that I am between a 56 and 57 hat size, actually...so, a custom PB (which I also recently sold to someone here) was my sole hat for several years....it was actually a little too snug as well after I grew my hair out a little bit, so I've since ordered a new PB custom. Can't wait for it to get here!

Anyway-I'm glad to see it was so well...ummmm..."loved."

Regards!
Indydawg

[stevemahaffey]

OK, I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but I just gotta ask while it is on my mind... Real-world, how much handling can a typical (if there is such a thing) hat handle before such a hole is worn/torn in the front. I know this will depend on many factors, and so is probably not a possible question to really get an answer on, but I would appreciate it if someone would try.
In particular, I have a Beaver Penman Raiders, and a AB Henry that is more LC/CS perhaps. I really WANT to enjoy these hats, especially the Penman, the Henry I keep for a Sunday hat, and it stays crown pushed open, in a hatbox the other 6 days of the week. By 'enjoy' I mean, Completely not worry about; toss about; nearly abuse; basically just Wear the Snot out of them. I WANT to. But I am afraid to. I don't want to ruin them. I want to get Many Many years of rough-and-tumble fun in these hats, but I am curious how others treat their go-to hat, and how they have lasted.
Again, sorry for the slightly off-topic post, but it is the time between fresh-off-the-block to well-used-with-a-hole-in-the-front that I really want to hear someone elaborate on.

[binkmeisterRick]

Wear your hats! A beaver hat will outlive a rabbit hat as the felt is more dense. Your Penman and Henry will take real world abuse. Likewise, the Akubra Federation line (made from hare/rabbit) has a proven history of taking such abuse. In fact, a Federation saved Steve Delk's like when a garage door came crashing down on him years ago! Unless you physically try to make the front pinch iron sharp for hours on end every single day, you don't have much to worry about. Just wear the hat!

[Kentucky Blues]

Unless you physically try to make the front pinch iron sharp for hours on end every single day, you don't have much to worry about.

That is the ONLY reason that my fedora ended up like that. Sure, it tapered a bit with all the rain, crushing, sitting, freezing, sanding, etc... And I managed to pop some seems on the sweatband with the beating it took, but for the most part the hat is still in great shape! And that's for a rabbit hat! In fact, I can hardly wait for my replacement Fed III Deluxe to taper a bit so that it looks better on my (like my old one did) but I know that's going to be a long time...

-KB

[tekors]

What nice pics we had here... that's what I call extreme adventure with the hat.
And as usual Michaelson gives us the excelent insights.