Raiders: Flat backpanel and close fitting jacket?

[Holt]

Im curious to hear what do you guys think of this?

Many people like the raides backpanel to lay flat as a board. yes it looks pretty cool that way but it isnt the way the real raiders jacket was...

many people see THE jacket as a fitted jacket...well, if you ask me the raiders jacket was not like that at all...

I have always believed the raiders jacket was more towards a loose fitting jacket. not baggy and not fitted, but loose.


look,












when looking at this I see a jacket loose as a noodle hanging on Fords shoulders.. and the backpanel is far from laying flat as a board...

[Tennessee Smith]

That really changes the look of the jacket when you put those images together. I think we might have developed our own image of the jacket and it's not what's really there. Thanks for this, it makes the offer from Sarge look so much more the part.

[St. Dumas]

The Raiders jacket was loose in the arms and shoulder. Compare the loose fit of the sleeves with the tight sleeves in Temple of Doom. The Raiders was slim around the waste, but not anywhere else. That said, no squirrel effect there.

SD

[crismans]

I have to agree with you on this, Holt. The Raiders jacket was somewhere in between a fitted jacket (if you want to see a fitted jacket on Indy, look at the jacket in the second village scene) and a loose jacket. In the movie, the back panels lay open due to the yoke being against the shoulder seams. Even the arm seam being an inch below the yoke seam isn't really "correct", is it? Having the arm and yoke seams line up makes more sense, aesthetically, and, as Sarge told me once (I don't believe he'd mind me sharing this), having the seams misaligned creates a "pressure point" where you might eventually have the jacket tear. But these features are part of the jacket that is near and dear to our hearts.

This subject came up, of course, on the Wings site where a couple of people mentioned the gap on the yoke and some others said they liked the gap as it let the pleats lay flat. As I said on that thread (and have said numerous times before), it's all in what you're looking for. If you're in the SA crowd, then you need the yoke to go across and get that "flaring" in the pleats. For those looking to have the Indy vibe in their jackets but have a "neater" look to it, then the gap between the yoke and shoulder seam is needed.

One is not better than the other. They appeal to different camps (I find myself vacillating between the two depending on mood) and neither is superior.

[Sgt.]

Okay all of you are so right on and yes you do get it!
I honestly don't know the first thing about style and or Fashion.. But I do know what will work in Combat ! You must have that extra room to move around in ! Your gear must hold up and give you service.. In the field you do not have two of each item.....
Regards,
Sarge

[Yojimbo Jones]

I agree with Holt as well. It's a weird jacket in so many ways - in some ways it's fitted and very athletically V shaped, yet in a slightly baggy way. I went too fitted with my last Nowak, and have just got one that nails the look I wanted perfectly. One of the key things was not just how wide the backpanel goes to the edge, but the way the back pleats sit, exactly how deep they are, and how they behave. Some jackets sit too flat, and others splay out too much. Riley nailed it perfectly. Even got the grain and striations perfect leading away from the edge, but that's another story...

[Raskolnikov]

Hey Johimbo, it would be great if you could post some pictures of your new jacket, please.
I think that one of the key features of the Raiders jacket is its fitting, and I tend to believe that the Raiders design, strange and 'wrong' as it is, makes an strange and wrong fitting too, which is what we all like around here
The jacket seems to be really snug in the chest, almost too snug, but the rest of it looks roomy enough.
Judging from my Nowak Raiders there is plenty of room if you measure the chest all around the jacket, but not very much if you just measure it from pit to pit. I think that the sleeves were wrongly placed in the original, leaving very little space on the front and more than enough on the back (this also would explain the falling of the shoulders effect).
Regards,
Rask

[Yojimbo Jones]

Hey, Rask, your wish is my command - pics in the other thread. But yeah, I think a key scene is at the Raven Bar - you can really get a sense of how much chest room there is there when it's zipped up. My sense is that it's got standard room in the chest, but the off-the-shoulder pulls it back and creates the illusion of a tight chest. - In other words... what you said!

cheers, Kurt

[Raskolnikov]

[Chewbacca Jones]

I think one of the reasons that we often think of the Raiders jacket as being trim and fitted is the fact that we see it zipped up so much more than any other film jacket.
Also, there's that whole Wested 80's Fit thing.

[Michigan Smith]

I always thought the jacket was baggy and too big, and that's what I look for in my jackets as well. Unfortunately, I keep growing into them so they aren't so over size.

[raider 57]

Didn't Ford do some extra weight training prior to TOD? (for all the shirt off scenes)
Could this account for the more fitted jacket appearance in TOD village. Just a thought.

[Weston]

I'm not too sure about that Rick. I've always thought the jacket, in all films, was a bit long and loose. I'll watch ToD again (like I ever need a reason!) to see what you mean. I always thought it looked loose fitting except for the scene where the Indian boy falls into his arms, and later when he is talking to Short Round on the hill top.

We've seen quite a few slim fitting, short bodied jackets in recent times and to me they just don't quite make it as an Indy jacket in terms of fit. I never did see a V shaped taper, and if it's too tight in the chest, that translates into a short collar, and that isn't right either, although it does look shorter to me in ToD. I think that alot of us have characatured the Raiders jacket to be a short bodied slim fitting jacket the same way alot of us for a time characatured the fedora to be a top-hat tall stove-pipe straight to mushroom shaped hat. I think that's a product of finding features that we think are unique and then exaggerating that particualr quality to the nth degree.

It's not a leather matador jacket with cargo pockets, it's a jacket that give you enough room to deliver a hard swung fist to the jaw of a Nazi, or Nazi hired Sherpa as the occasion requires. As to the look, a slim fitting jacket will never be able to produce the cool vertical creases that are a subtle but important feature of a true Raiders jacket.

Weston

[Chewbacca Jones]

It's not a leather matador jacket with cargo pockets...

THANK YOU!!!!

I have always been bothered by the ultra-short trend. It just doesn't look right - not just as an Indy style, but in general it does not flatter most people.

[RCSignals]

I guess you have to define 'slim fitting' and 'short'

The jackets do have a general length, all approximately the same in front at generally 23". The actual back lengths of the jackets change from movie to movie, but all 'fall' or 'land' in about the same point when worn.

None are 'Matador' length.

[Baldwyn]

I think one of the reasons that we often think of the Raiders jacket as being trim and fitted is the fact that we see it zipped up so much more than any other film jacket.
Also, there's that whole Wested 80's Fit thing.

I thought that was true too, but we actually see the LC jacket zipped up quite a bit. And then we get to see it zipped up with a cardigan underneath later.

[that_dog]

In my experience the jacket has a wide back and a tight chest. It's an odd fit, but that's the look... (and you don't really notice the chest unless the jacket is zipped up at least halfway anyway). That may also explain why the jacket pulls off the neck and onto the shoulders.

[RCSignals]

.......... That may also explain why the jacket pulls off the neck and onto the shoulders.

That's the cut that is wrong around the collar at back and it's construction, but it really only applies to the Raiders jacket.

[Holt]

yes, exactly. the cut around the collar/shoulder seams is wrong and that was one of the features I wanted when I specced out that 'Holt' jacket. 1.5+ years ago.

My jacket falls of the shoulders constantly. Just like when Indy enters on screen for the first time in Hawaii.

[Indakin]

nice jacket dude, what is it?

[Holt]

thats my raiders jacket which I had wested make me...

I have a big thread on it somewhere

[Weston]

Great jacket there Holt! To my eyes, that is what a Raiders jacket should fit like!

If I remeber right, you dialed in the size of your Todd's standard just right as well.

Weston

[Mitch LaRue]

Yep... in my opinion that's THE #1 nicest Wested-jacket-made-for-a-customer I've ever laid my eyes on.
I've seen several that are just excellent, mind you... but this Holt version is just perfect.
No doubt.

[Indy_1971]

thats my raiders jacket which I had wested make me...

I have a big thread on it somewhere

Okay, awesome jacket. Been trying to find the thread. No luck. Can you provide the link?
Thanks.

Also, I'd really like to hear the story behind your Van Damme photo.

[Kentucky Blues]

You know what? I think that falling off the shoulders thing is the source of the fitted vs non-fitted confusion. When it falls of the shoulder, the front is pulled against the body, creating a fitted appearance from the front. When we see it from behind, especially from a lower angle, it just looks like a really baggy jacket. On the other hand, we have the opposite when the jacket gets pulled up for a shot... the front looks to have a little more room, but then the back clings to the body a bit, once again created the fitted look. So an inbetween baggy and fitted, is probably just right. It's just loose enough too fall off the shoulders, but fitted enough to look sharp when pulled up. Eh, I still prefer a fitted jacket, lol. Also, I'm sure what I've pointed out has been suggested/deduced before, but I've just now been enlightened

-KB

[Raskolnikov]

Yep... in my opinion that's THE #1 nicest Wested-jacket-made-for-a-customer I've ever laid my eyes on.

Yes, along with Zoltar's OTR that's the nicest Wested I've seen for a while.
Nice Munch, too, at the back of the room.

[Zoltar]

Cheers Raskolnikov

I've finally got my Henry sorted in a size thar fit's so I'm fully geared up now.
I'm planning on doing a bit of adveturing at the weekend and taking some snaps, where's the best place to post full gear shots?

ZOLTAR

[Holt]

thats my raiders jacket which I had wested make me...

I have a big thread on it somewhere

Okay, awesome jacket. Been trying to find the thread. No luck. Can you provide the link?
Thanks.

Also, I'd really like to hear the story behind your Van Damme photo.

search for my threads. type in Indiana Holt and you'l find it.

the story behind that photo is that we were at a party together about a month ago. really cool guy. hopefully when Im in the states this year I will meet him again. Just need to let him know when I fly out and hopefully he has time to see me.. he is really busy with making new movies these days. pluss he just launched Ronin entertainment. so much to do on his hand. but thats of topic.

[Yojimbo Jones]

Yeah, but that grey jacket still looks too small on you, _.

[Holt]

suddenly this effect comes to my mind. lol.

[Yojimbo Jones]

Oh dear. Thanks for THAT mental image. Time for a ketogenic diet phase?

[Weston]

You know, you never know what kind of a tangent these threads will take, but I never imagined that the subject of Pattersons cup size would ever come up

'They tell you to expect the unexpected, but that is misleading, because it leave you vulnerable to the truly unexpected!'

Weston

[Michaelson]

"Nothing surprises us. We're scientists....."



Regards! Michaelson

[John Vaughan]

uh, I love my new jacket....Ya that'll work, learned early on not to get involved in threads like this. I ain't got me enough learnin' on the subject. I do love reading them tho'. D cup? Holt I totaly agree with you and with what Sarge wrote.

Regards
John

[Indakin]

ok HUGE , and now i get your size buddy. Yea im the same with the fits, im not huge, but having a decent upper body, i hate when the belly area is bigger just cause the chest is bigger. The arms in the new wings are pretty wide, not sure how they would fit you still.

[Rick Deckard]

I hear you Indakin. I'm not even remotely close to _'s size, but I think that anyone with an athletic build (bigger up top than in the waist) suffers from the same problem. I had to upsize in the Indy HERO b/c of the chest and shoulders being too tight, but as a result I have a lot of excess room in the arms and waist. Still, the fit is much better and more comfortable and I'm happy with it. The nice thing about the Indy is that you can cinch the side straps and get a more fitted look.

I asked Sarge whether he ever considered doing 'half sizes'. I'm not sure that's the right word, but if there was another step in the sizes, say a size between a S and a M and a L and an XL, that would go a long way to getting a better OTR fit for people that maybe need more room up top but not a whole size bigger down below.

[RCSignals]

Well _ if you are getting your suits tailor made you shouldn't have a problem.
Tailor made suits beat OTR suits for fit everytime anyway even though some OTR can cost just as much more.