Vintage (?) Herbert Johnson mystery fedora

[WyoWilliam]

I bought this hat recently on ebay. It was advertised as a vintage, early 80's HJ that had had a Peter Brothers sweat and liner put into it. I have a modern HJ, as well as a "bulletproof" Peter bros., and here's what I'm seeing: (In the pics, the photo of the hat w/o the ribbon is the PB.)

The felt has a longer knap than a modern HJ, but the color seems right.
The block shape of the alleged HJ seems better than the Peter bros.:





The PB is 5 3/4" tall, whereas this is 5 1/2":

Then there is the ribbon/bow, which is a complete mystery. It's overall construction is like a HJ, with the bow being double folded, but seperate from the hat and with the knot edge folded inwards. (The entire ribbon/ bow my PB is all one unit, not including the knot, which had the outward folded knot edge, I believe.) But, it's put together like a PB, with the double sided tape under the knot, and has the spider-web single-thread sewing inside. The color of the ribbon seems to be black 1 1/2", not a the modern HJ dark brown, but certainly not the brown 1 3/8" that was on the Peter bros. that I have. (From top: Brown Shiff; dk. brown HJ; brown/ grey Todd's; black; and mystery hat.):

It also has writing inside like my PB.

So - what is this thing? Is it truly a vintage HJ with extras, or is it simply a rabbit felt PB?


Thanks for any info!

[Michaelson]

Looks like a PB rebuild to me, but not originally created by PB in the first place. I've never seen them use that kind of chalk marking in the sweat, nor that kind of felt before.

Regards! Michaelson

[WyoWilliam]

Thanks for that but as it turns out, I was wrong. I threw caution to the wind and took the ribbon apart, and it's exactly like a PBros. with one-piece construction, just black 1 1/2" ribbon.

I know they do use that chalk writing, as here is what my "bulletproof" Indy has inside of it:


I also notice that the brims on both are pretty small: The PB is almost 2 3/4" with 2 1/2" sides and back and the alleged HJ is 2 1/2" with 2 1/4" sides.

I'm starting to think this is simply a PBros., except for the overal block shape, but I've never seen one of their new rabbit felt hats, so I still can't tell.

[Michaelson]

I stand corrected. I thought that was chalk, but can see it's the white crayon they use on all their hats. Is that all the information on that hat? As you show on your PB, Joe puts EVERYTHING under his sweats regarding details. All that hat has is a size and 'A-24', or at least that's all I can make out.

Interesting.

Like I said, I've never seen that felt before...but then, like I also said, it still looks like a rebuild to me. They've rebuilt hats by other makers for me too, and all those detail marks are inside MY hat as well, but as complete as what you find in your PB!

I HAVE one of their new rabbit felts, and it doesn't look like that hat felt.

If it IS a PB, I wonder if it's one of their older felts.

Have you tried to get hold of Joe and see if he can give you any identifiers to confirm one way or the other?

Regards! Michaelson

[Spaniard]

I think I know this guy and the story is as follow:

I bought a HJ back in 2003 or so that went so tapered after a little time. I sent it to PB for a reblock and a ribbon change (that ribbon was sold to me by Pyroxene, I was looking for a dark brown one, but he only had availabe the black one at that moment). When I get the hat again, I don't know why but the brim where smaller than before and the famous Swales scissors marks were backwards.

Then in the summer of 07 I sold it to a COW member... and it seems that now it's your's.

Thanks for that but as it turns out, I was wrong. I threw caution to the wind and took the ribbon apart, and it's exactly like a PBros. with one-piece construction, just black 1 1/2" ribbon.

I know they do use that chalk writing, as here is what my "bulletproof" Indy has inside of it:


I also notice that the brims on both are pretty small: The PB is almost 2 3/4" with 2 1/2" sides and back and the alleged HJ is 2 1/2" with 2 1/4" sides.

I'm starting to think this is simply a PBros., except for the overal block shape, but I've never seen one of their new rabbit felt hats, so I still can't tell.

I think that I can read my name in this picture, if it's said something like "P. M. Tortajada" or so you have the full story of your fedora.

Regards

[Michaelson]

That photo is the inside of WyWilliams personal PB bulletproof. I think you're seeing Joe Peter's signature in the back of that hat.

Regards! Michaelson

[WyoWilliam]

You would be correct, Michaelson. And now I can read that signature on the Bulletproof as "Joe Peter Jr."

I'm unfamiliar with the "Swales scissor marks"?

That's interesting about the felt - I thought, though, they only recently started offering the soft rabbit fur felt.

I haven't thought to ask Joe himself - good idea.

Thanks!

[Yojimbo Jones]

Spaniard,

By the sound of it, your HJ hat body was blocked back-to-front to the way it was originally. It also shrunk on the block (you could easily lose a few mm with that grade of felt), so it meant the brim ended up smaller, but the brim cutting marks made by Swayles were retained, though the other way around.

Yes, it would be interesting to find out if it was this hat.