Christy's Adventurer!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:12 am

It's interesting because the Burma swatch sample that I received is a taupe color, darker than their Maize color. It would seem logical that if Ford were wearing a dark blue suit for the sea plane sequence, then they would have matched it with either a blue or grey color. Earth tones are usually matched, and blue is usually matched with black, blue, and/or grey, just basic color schemes. You would not want to wear a brown belt with a blue suit and black shoes for instance. Yet I do not see a color match.

On the other hand, the Christy's Light Grey sample swatch is a blend of grey and light blue...???

Go figure.

I still think that lighting and filming technique played a hand in this 'mystery', causing conjecture and lingering questions, for lack of a better term. Artificial lighting causes distortion, futher compounded by the inherent property of felt to absorb light. Even artificial lighting vs. natural sun can significantly effect the shade of color and how the captured image is perceived, to the point that the same article of clothing can look like a different piece altogether. Add to it the fact that felt tends to absorb light.

Another issue...was the sea plane hat the same hat that the German agent wore on the streets of Cairo...he was wearing a tan suit and gray hat? If it is, then the gray hat as seen on the streets of Cairo in full sun is the closest shade to its true color as you will find in the movie. Remember that the sea plane scene and the last scene of Indy and Marion in the movie on the congressional steps, were basically filmed indoors. It has always appeard to me that the sea plane hat was darker than what we would consider a 'moonstone' shade and lighter than charcoal grey.

Odo · Post by **Odo** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:39 pm

I guess (just my opinion) that the nazi hat in cairo is the same kind of "assorted hats" they ordered from HJ.
And it shares the same ribbon, I think, wider than the one in Indy's fedora.

It matches what HJ say in they Web, supossing all hats had 2" ribbons, and they replaced only the ones in Indy's fedora to make it look it taller...)
(Again: That's what I belive, I have not evidence of ribbon colour or width)

(From http://www.swaineadeney.co.uk):
"the original ribbon being changed from 50mm to 39mm"

PS: Another reason to change my ribbon for one with the proper width!

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:20 pm

Erri wrote: Well I didn't mean black in colour, just a darker brown. I think the one that would work best is the same ribbon that is used on the Christy's sable felts... which I think is a very dark brown with some grey in it.

Which is what I ordered (based on Erri's advice). Hopefully, I'll have it soon to post pics.

Odo · Post by **Odo** » Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:21 pm

I'm interested in those pics. And what width did you ordered?

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:52 am

Odo, it seems that your Streets of Cairo image could be the right shade of grey?

Odo · Post by **Odo** » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:49 pm

Well, it's the very same hat I posted before in this thread, before bashing.
It's a "mid grey" hat, and according to the lights, it looks as the nazi or the Clipper hat.
Ant it's even the same felt that in this other hat, that I think it looks more like the 57 grey:

I should say the colour is very much alike the "Oxford Grey" posted by Erri before, in this same thread.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:51 am

Odo wrote:Most Raiders Greys I've seen have a black 1 1/2" ribbon, which is perfect for the Crystal Skull Grey (I think), but not for the '36.
In fact I like your ribbon's colour and width (what is it, 1 5/8"? or 2"?), cause I want to repace mine's.
(Have you ordered your hat with that width ribbon?)

I did request that specific width. I can't remember the specific measure now but you can read more here, I'm sure I posted it in my thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36083
Could have been 42mm or 45mm don't remember correctly now, I don't have the hat in hand. The measure was based on some vintage HJs I owned and that had a slightly larger ribbon. So my request was based on actual vintage ribbon, not just a random guess from screengrabs

Texan Scott wrote: Another issue...was the sea plane hat the same hat that the German agent wore on the streets of Cairo...

It could be as well as not, there are two grey hats in the Cairo scenes, you really have to look for the right frames but two germans wear hats of two different colours, both grey, one lighter one darker... and yet could be none of those that went on Ford's head.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:21 am

I guess (just my opinion) that the nazi hat in cairo is the same kind of "assorted hats" they ordered from HJ.
And it shares the same ribbon, I think, wider than the one in Indy's fedora

Look closely at your pic of the SOC gray Nazi hat. You can see where it was creased with the tight front pinch like Indy's hat. I think this is one and the same hat. Otherwise, why would it have the telltale sign of the front pinch? Fedora

Odo · Post by **Odo** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:50 am

Fedora wrote:
I guess (just my opinion) that the nazi hat in cairo is the same kind of "assorted hats" they ordered from HJ.
And it shares the same ribbon, I think, wider than the one in Indy's fedora
Look closely at your pic of the SOC gray Nazi hat. You can see where it was creased with the tight front pinch like Indy's hat. I think this is one and the same hat. Otherwise, why would it have the telltale sign of the front pinch? Fedora

I guess you are right. If it's not the same hat, it was also styled like it, and somebody decide to make it look open crown so it's not so obvious the same (kind of) hat.
And about the ribbon, should be something vetween 1 7/8" and 2".
What I can't tel is if the colour is dark grey or black, but I think might be gray.

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:30 am

If I remember correctly (from my grilling him under bright lights), Erri requested 45 mm for his hat. I requested a 3 inch brim all around and the ribbon color from the sable model at 45mm. I was told the color wouldn't be a problem but the width might be. I said I'd rather have the color than the ribbon width.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:39 am

I guess you are right. If it's not the same hat, it was also styled like it, and somebody decide to make it look open crown so it's not so obvious the same (kind of) hat.

For years I always felt the plane hat and the Nazi hat were the same. Mostly because the Nazi hat did at one time have the Indy crease in it. Plus, this was not a high budget film, and they were probably keeping a line on costumer costs. The guy, who sat in on the plane was wearing one of Indy's brown hats, so there must have been a shortage of hats in some respect. Logical that they would recycle some hats.

To me, the ribbon on the plane hat looks to be 1 5/8s in width, but could be 1 3/4 max. I doubt it was larger than that. Fedora

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:31 pm

Its circumstantial, but I believe we have a pretty good case, or educated guess, for the notion that the seaplane hat and the German agent's SOC hat could vertually be the same hat. As noted by the creases, etc., it was obviously pre-creased, therefore you have the possibility of it being pre-used on film. No one actor wore a grey creased fedora prior to the SOC film sequence, but HF. Excluding all the other variables, at the very least I'd say it is the right felt color.

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:03 pm

I've always wondered about that Nazi hat....well, not ALWAYS, but since joining COW and rewatching Raiders over and over, I tend to notice the hats more now then ever.

Odo · Post by **Odo** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:16 pm

I was trying to make some study on these greys, but due to the low quality of my images, what's shown could be wrong.
But maybe someone else can get bette versions of these same images and do the same analysis.

What I found is that maybe the Washington hat is the same than the Nazi Cairo Hat, but maybe the clipper has a narrower ribbon

Like I said, this maybe be wrong, but maybe someone else can continue from here...

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:45 pm

I think that the seaplane hat does have a more narrow ribbon, but wasn't this stated in an earlier post, that for Indy, the wide ribbon was changed to the more narrow ribbon? Speculation again, but wasn't the German agent's hat roughly a 50mm ribbon, while the hero hats all used the 39mm ribbon?

Odo · Post by **Odo** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:30 pm

The browns had 39mm. I belive the seaplane grey had something in between 39mm-45mm, as Fedora said.
But the german's ribbon seems wider to me (50mm?)

And I liked to know what do the rest of us think.
(Maybe this should be moved to another thread, but I think it's an interesting one)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, cause this thread is about Christies: Is it possible to order them with other ribbon's width?
Has anybody ordered anything different than 1 1/2"?

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:51 pm

If Christy's has the ribbon in stock, they can usually accommodate you.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:45 am

The ribbon I requested on my Burma hat was 42mm (or 43mm, hard to say exactly), although they only had it in that colour and not the one I wanted... so, depending on the availability, they do accomodate to your request, as jlee562 said.

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:40 pm

This has been buggin' me for quite sometime. Stupid question actually...

I've read in numerous posts that the Christy's is "dry-blocked"... Does it literally mean that they stretched the felt over a block without steam or water? How is this process really done?

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:49 am

So they say, I have not a clue how the supposed dry-blocking is done honestly.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:53 am

They stretch it over the block dry. They hit it with steam and thats it. It doesn't get to see any real water until your wearing it. Factor than in with the fact that the felt isn't very dense. It becomes a dry sponge. I soak my felt completely and let it dry naturally. It takes my felt bodies 5 to 6 days to dry completely. Thats only one step where it has to dry.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:55 pm

BendingOak wrote:They stretch it over the block dry. They hit it with steam and thats it. It doesn't get to see any real water until your wearing it. Factor than in with the fact that the felt isn't very dense. It becomes a dry sponge. I soak my felt completely and let it dry naturally. It takes my felt bodies 5 to 6 days to dry completely. Thats only one step where it has to dry.

This is an excellent example of where much of that extra production time goes with a good custom lid, even if one were to use machines (which, for clarity, Oak does not). Not to mention, the difference between a "dress hat" and a "practical hat."

Still, the Christy's has it's place. I wouldn't dare wear mine in the rain!

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:56 pm

My Christy's has been rained on and developed no taper. But I was on vacation at the time in the mountains so the climate was cold.

However, the heatwave here in Manila is getting worse and is taking a toll on the hat. I guess it's those trips in the car that affect the hat the most. When I get in the car after it has baked in the sun for a few hours, the heat is almost unbearable. I have to turn the AC all the way up. I guess the change of temperature (a little hot outside and super hot inside the car) is taking a toll on the hat because I noticed that one side is starting to taper and round-out.

To counter the taper, I stretched it over my home-made "newspaper" block to get it back in shape. That is why I asked about dry-blocking because basically, that's what I'm doing to my hat.

I kept it on the block for more than 24hrs (did some cleaning on the hat as well, just couldn't get the sweat stains out on the underside of the brim) and just removed the hat today. It's back to its tall, blocky shape.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:51 am

fenris wrote: I guess the change of temperature (a little hot outside and super hot inside the car) is taking a toll on the hat because I noticed that one side is starting to taper and round-out.

It's funny, but a few people who have experienced Christy taperings have reported that same issue - going round and uneven. Must be a peculiarity of the hats in general. Good to know they are salvageable, though.

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:08 am

Chewbacca Jones wrote:
fenris wrote: I guess the change of temperature (a little hot outside and super hot inside the car) is taking a toll on the hat because I noticed that one side is starting to taper and round-out.
It's funny, but a few people who have experienced Christy taperings have reported that same issue - going round and uneven. Must be a peculiarity of the hats in general. Good to know they are salvageable, though.

Well so far it is. This is the 2nd time I "reblocked" it. The first one was when I initially got it and noticed that one side had a slight taper. I just hope that the "dry-blocking" I'm doing will be able to keep it in shape through our summer heat-wave. I don't know how many times the trick will work.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:05 am

Dry blocking is the reason it tappers in the first place ( or should I say one of). Thats how these hat are made. It never really gets to see any water when its made.

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:50 am

Well, so much for my dry-blocking... I had to do it all over again.

Just this morning, before leaving the house, I absentmindedly placed my hat on the bed. My wife comes in the room, lies down on the bed and we both play with our 6-month old daughter. Minutes pass and my wife gets up... Apparently, under her the whole time was my hat!!!

She accidentally lied down on my hat! It was totally flattened (LITERALLY)!!! It looked really bad... like it was run over by a car. Imagine somebody rolling back and forth on your hat for 20-minutes or more.

I popped-out all the dents (dents is an understatement, believe me) and it still looked like a hat after - despite the many wrinkles it developed. I re-stretched it over my home-made block, brushed it all around, and left it there for 1 1/2 hrs. Took it off the block and the hat looked just like it did before it was flattened.

Travelsonic · Post by **Travelsonic** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:30 pm

The adventurer is now at $82 USD - or rather, it's at 82 USD, how long has it been that cheap?

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:39 pm

Travelsonic wrote:The adventurer is now at $82 USD - or rather, it's at 82 USD, how long has it been that cheap?

I think I paid in the 90s for mine about a month, month and a half ago.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:46 am

The pound has been tanking last few months. That's why it's getting cheaper for you guys.

http://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/GBP/graph120.html

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:57 am

About time!!!

Time to get a new wested I guess!?

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:32 pm

I've been reviewing this whole thread and was surprised hat my hat looks better than my first few posts of its pics. When I look at the old pics, it seems so tapered... bordering on scary looking. I guess it's the way I bashed it before, it was my first time bashing a hat after all. Also, the dry blocking I've been doing to my hat when it's not in use has helped a great deal as well.

Funny how a lot of you never commented how hedious my first pic of my hat looked. Even my "street scene" pic didn't receive any negative comments... even if it looked tapered (very TOD cockpit look). For me, instead of the hat falling apart with nearly daily use, it became the opposite. I find that it looks better as the months progress.

A little light rain, multiple accidental "sit ons" and the heat in my country seem to be making the hat look better (well, in my opinion anyway). I love this hat no matter what others may say about its durability.

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:53 am

Ok, I'm looking at doing some tests on the Clipper hat with a view to offering a reblocked version of the Christys as a more SA Clipper. But I think there are some other factors going on that I'd like to nut out first.

So is the consensus that Burma is the closest colour choice - not the light grey? And a 42-45mm ribbon?

With the possibilities laid out in the thread above, what are your opinions/desires if you were in the market?

Erri, I know what YOU think!

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:33 pm

Light grey absolutely not but I wouldn't suggest the burma either for your line, most of your customers will think it's too... GREEN!

Of course it's up to you!

If you decide to source from other felt vendors (other than from Christy) for a new grey feel free to contact me and I'll tell you opinions on the grey hat. As I said the Burma is the closest in the Christy's array of colour but doesn't mean it's a match, however much better than the light grey Christy, or light grey from any other hatter as far as I'm concerned.

The correct ribbon width is in my seaplane hat thread, I can never remember what it was (I think it was 42-43mm)

Yojimbo Jones · Post by **Yojimbo Jones** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:31 pm

Ok, so it's THAT green, huh?!

It is a shame as the Christys felt is so good once it's sorted out.

Looks like I've got to find a mid grey from somewhere then...

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:04 pm

Erri wrote:About time!!!

Time to get a new wested I guess!?

Read the 'Wested Blacklisting' thread first. Then decide if you wanna do that.

BwanaJohn · Post by **BwanaJohn** » Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:26 pm

Ordered The Sable One just under a month ago, hope to receive it soon, then on to find a jacket (maybe)...

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:00 am

Yojimbo Jones wrote:Ok, so it's THAT green, huh?!
It is a shame as the Christys felt is so good once it's sorted out.

Looks like I've got to find a mid grey from somewhere then...

if you go for christy's felt then burma is the only choice. If you go for another brand then you'll have to decide what is screen accurate... choices choices

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:08 am

Does having a really round head really make a hat look tapered? I've noticed that when the hat is not on my head, it doesn't look tapered. But when I put it on, the sides get pushed out making the hat look tapered. The front and back of the hat don't touch my head that's why I use sizing tape even if the sides seem to be just right.

Now, does Christy's offer round oval adventurers?

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:27 am

Christys do generally taper on round heads (perhaps that's why it works so well on my long oval melon and not always great on other people), there isn't much that you can do about it I'm afraid.
I doubt they have a rounder block but you may enquiry to Hornets Hats

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:34 am

Either that or it really is starting to taper because of the heat... if ever it does, I'm just gonna bash it differently and get a Fed IV to be the Indy hat (just gotta find a way to have hatsdirect ship the hat to the Philippines, because they normally dont).

Joeyeah_right · Post by **Joeyeah_right** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:12 am

fenris wrote:Either that or it really is starting to taper because of the heat... if ever it does, I'm just gonna bash it differently and get a Fed IV to be the Indy hat (just gotta find a way to have hatsdirect ship the hat to the Philippines, because they normally dont).

If you have a friend in another country (one that hatsdirect ship to), you could get hatsdirect to ship to them and then have your friend ship it to you

BwanaJohn · Post by **BwanaJohn** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:17 pm

Received my Christy's "Adventurer" today, very happy with it...

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:39 pm

I'm planning on doing a home-made reblock of my Christy's since it is starting to taper a bit.

Gurus, please help!

Now I just wanna know how to make it easier to stretch over the block? When I was "dry blocking" it I couldn't make the hat fully settle into the block... I used to put a towel on top of the block because the hat won't go any further down the block. I've inspected my home-made block and the diameter on the bottom is the same as on the top so there is no part that the hat can get "snagged-on" while putting it on the block.

What's better? Wetting or steaming? (I'm afraid!!!)

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:47 pm

I've reblocked my Christy's twice and each time I water blocked it. The problem is that even before I put it in the water, just with steam, the hat tapered and shrank right before my eyes. To properly reblock the hat you are going to have to strip the ribbon and sweatband and liner and either steam block it or water block it. You will lose felt though as it will shrink. Once you've done that, pull it over the block. Do not leave any space between the block and felt. Let it dry for a few days and then repounce the hat and sew the parts back in. This will help stabilize the felt as well as take out the taper.

Dave

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:05 am

what happens to the felt that shrinks? are you able to stretch it back out or are you left with a shorter hat?

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:09 am

The felt is not very dense. This is part of why the hat keeps cool even on hot days. So, the steam or water penetrates the felt much more easily. This causes the fur to felt together tighter. This helps stabilize the felt and prevents the hat from tapering or shrinking as quickly later on, but you lose felt. You have to decide whether you want to lose crown height or brim width. And the felt on these hats is actually not bad once it has been shrunk down. I'm thinking of buying another Christy's somewhere down the line and getting their largest size and sizing it down. This will stabilize the felt and the end result will be a much more reliable hat. But I was shocked when I held that hat over the steam and saw it shrink right before my eyes. Not a pretty sight.

Dave

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:25 am

Now I'm scared...

I made another "block" out of styrofoam and tried to get as close to the open crown shape I see in pics here. I hope my experiment doesn't yield to disaster.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:49 pm

Well, if you don't feel confident enough, I would wait until you get another hat first. I think I read that you were looking into a Federation. You might want to hold off on doing a proper reblock on this hat until you have another one to cover for you if it goes awry. But, I loved experimenting on my Christy's. It was a great learning experience.

Dave

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:51 pm

I'm more concerned about sewing the sweatband and ribbon back on rather than the reblock. I can hardly sew my buttons back in when they come off... Hehehe.