Jacket cut question (maybe a dumb one)

[CM]

Why are most jackets cut longer at the back? And what is the difference in fit between a TN Raiders, which I understand is the same length all around like the original? If you are thin (ie, without a gut) how do the different jacket cuts sit? I was under the impression that leather jackets - especially a half belt are longer in front and shorter by 2 inches or so in the rear.

Anyone know anything factual about this?

[Yojimbo Jones]

Because the top is higher at the back (ie at your neck), so most jackets are longer at the back to allow for it.Lie any button up or t-shirt down flat and look at the front vs. back of the collar area.

[RCSignals]

Because the top is higher at the back (ie at your neck), so most jackets are longer at the back to allow for it.Lie any button up or t-shirt down flat and look at the front vs. back of the collar area.

correct for properly cut/made jackets. The Raiders jacket and the jacket TN copied are cut differently, made wrong. The collar is bigger, doesn't sit at the back of the neck, and the (remember the old discussion) 'falls back' and 'floats around' on the shoulders.
This incorrect cut is what Todd (Todd's costumes) was referring to in this quote from an older thread

To set the record straight, I do own a Nowak jacket (I'm wearing it right now) and I did study it. I made a few tweaks to my pattern. But my jacket pattern is not a literal copy of Tony's. I realize that the jacket Tony made was patterned from only one of the film jackets, and was not identical to the others. Truthfully, I don't think the original Tony copied was cut that well. I don't want to copy it 100%. Tony was meticulous in replicating the good with the bad (Thanks, Tony!) I took two or three details from it and retained 95% of my old pattern, as I felt it better represented the other film jackets that got more screen time. There were many areas where my pattern already matched Tony's as well. They were far more similar than different.

It's still my own pattern - just a few small tweaks, that's all. As a matter of fact, I have made tweaks everytime I have a new batch run. In addition, my manufacturer continues to find better and better leather.

I'm not sure about the half belt back length, I don't know if all half-belts would be cut longer in front than back. The 'Layer Cake' jacker appears to be cut longer in front than in back. But in the case of those jackets, they are most likely otherwise cut properly.

[Michaelson]

Yep - Be happy that yours are this way. Extending the front length generally means middle-age-spread...

[Indydawg]

Or the "furniture disease...."

[CM]

Thanks all.

[theman]

Actually the Layer Cake is cut closer to the same length in front and rear, due entirely to the fact of the downward slope towards the zipper from the front side seam. The reason it sits better on a person is because there is proper "shape" to the rest of the jacket.
The ROLA was obviously made "wrong" in a lot of ways in the beginning by the original maker, but that does give it it's character. Many other makers have made much more corrected versions of the jacket, but we don't want those because they are not correct in the SA world. Well that is until we get to KOTCS... that jacket was built correctly from the ground up, and there are SA versions of that available. You do not see as many quirks in the way it wears or shifts around as posture changes, it just sets right on the body.

But I do like the way my accurately made ROLAs have acted quirky like I saw them on screen ... and of course didn't like how the non-accurate ones did not behave the same.

[Yojimbo Jones]

In a word - yep.

When I spoke to Tony about correcting the Raiders jacket, if only partially, he said "WHAT THE &*%& WOULD YOU DO THAT FOR? THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF THAT JAACKET! IT'D BE LIKE REPLACING YOUR SPINE." He puts it so succcinctly.

Yeah, it moves around, but you're constantly aware you are wearing it. Or is it wearing US?

[RCSignals]

Actually the Layer Cake is cut closer to the same length in front and rear, due entirely to the fact of the downward slope towards the zipper from the front side seam. The reason it sits better on a person is because there is proper "shape" to the rest of the jacket.
.....

Thanks. Yes that makes sense for the Layer Cake jacket, with the front and back the same relatively, and the rest of the jacket made correctly, the back the naturally appears shorter when worn. From a side view anyway.
If it were made 'wrong' like a raiders jacket the back would mostly appear in a normal length because of how the jacket 'behaves' (or doesn't behave depending on your POV)

[Hollowpond]

The ROLA was obviously made "wrong" in a lot of ways in the beginning by the original maker, but that does give it it's character. Many other makers have made much more corrected versions of the jacket, but we don't want those because they are not correct in the SA world. Well that is until we get to KOTCS... that jacket was built correctly from the ground up, and there are SA versions of that available.

Does the Temple and LC jacket not fit correctly? The reason I ask is I am about to purchase a custom made jacket (from either TN or Mags...Leaning towards Mags) and I was thinking about the LC cut. I just don't like the Raiders cut that much I LOVE it on screen, but me wearing it on a day to day basis, no thanks. I thought the LC was a well fitting cut jacket, but maybe I'm wrong.

Travis

[theman]

P - in language or in the ability to make a correct ROLA? I'd love to see their version of a ROLA...mmmm FQHH in the form of a ROLA, that would be sick! (in a good way)

I'd say the LC is "better" as a proper made jacket compared to the ROLA and will give you a more "set" fit, but IMHO you might as well just go for a KOTCS and have it done in an LC look if you want a truly excellent fit while going for the look of the LC. And luckily there is some design lineage from the LC to the KOTCS so that would be a natural melding. But if you're wanting the SA goodness of an LC then i know of a guy who makes a proper fitting one for a few folks around here. And honestly I haven't seen another maker quite hit the same mark he has on an LC to that degree yet, at least not consistently with distressing and all, the total package basically.

[RCSignals]

Does the Temple and LC jacket not fit correctly? The reason I ask is I am about to purchase a custom made jacket (from either TN or Mags...Leaning towards Mags) and I was thinking about the LC cut. I just don't like the Raiders cut that much I LOVE it on screen, but me wearing it on a day to day basis, no thanks. I thought the LC was a well fitting cut jacket, but maybe I'm wrong.

Travis

The Temple is a good cut. It's just a different jacket with it's small pockets etc. I really like my TN ToD in Happy Cow.

The LC is not as bad as the Raider for cut. TN makes a very nice LC. I haven't seen Magnoli's I don't think, or his ToD.

[RCSignals]

P - in language or in the ability to make a correct ROLA? I'd love to see their version of a ROLA...mmmm FQHH in the form of a ROLA, that would be sick! (in a good way)

I'd say the LC is "better" as a proper made jacket compared to the ROLA and will give you a more "set" fit, but IMHO you might as well just go for a KOTCS and have it done in an LC look if you want a truly excellent fit while going for the look of the LC. And luckily there is some design lineage from the LC to the KOTCS so that would be a natural melding. But if you're wanting the SA goodness of an LC then i know of a guy who makes a proper fitting one for a few folks around here. And honestly I haven't seen another maker quite hit the same mark he has on an LC to that degree yet, at least not consistently with distressing and all, the total package basically.

The Raider jacket is iconic, but it is a strange jacket. It would be interesting to see one in FQHH, I'm not convinced it would lend itself that well to that hide though.

Agreed on the KOTCS. As many have said, it is a 'real world' jacket. Meaning in fit, appearance, construction.

which LC jacket are you referring to?

[Hollowpond]

Well I'm probably going to get an amalgam of all the things I like in all of Indy's jackets. So far I'm leaning towards a ToD cut, with raiders style pockets, and a hidden bottom storm flap button (for functionality). I am also leaning towards a goat jacket to get a slightly darker Raiderish color and drape. I am obviously not an SA nut. I want a super comfortable, functional jacket that I can wear at least 6 months out of the year (I live in eastern NC...fall and spring normally are quite warm).

Travis

[CM]

Wow, my post has gotten a life of its own now, as these things often do.

My question has been answered, we can probably close this and discuss the merits of the various Indy jacket iterations elsewhere.

Regards

[Hollowpond]

Sorry, didn't mean to highjack...

Travis

[CM]

No problem - I've done my own share of highjacking. I'm actually interested in where the thread has gone, but it desrves it's own space, I think.

[191145]

Jackets without any kind of 'cinch' on the waistband (like an A2 elastic band), like the Indy jackets, would usually be cut longer in the back to keep it from riding up over the belt line when bending over, riding a horse, whatever. The same goes for the long sleeves - they're a little long with your arms just hanging, but about right with the arms raised or in action. In some cases, like me, if you have a 'barrel chest', the jacket can be really short in front, and can look ridiculous when zipped, with the bottom front sticking out like Dilbert's tie.