_ wrote:
Hmmmm... Berman's did not lose the ToD business as costumer. They did both ToD and LC. You are drawing causal relationships between everything, and that's not the case.
Peter was blackballed because he worked for another costumer on a Bond film without telling anybody. I had discussions with both Berman and Howard back in 2000 about this. For Berman it was the last straw with a subcontractor he did not like - personally or professionally. In fact, I had to apologize to Monte and Noel because I opened a can of worms between them. I’m the person who told Monte that Peter worked on Last Crusade, and that Wested Leather was the same company as Leather Concessionaires. Before I told him this, he did not know Peter had been working for them again.
But back to the Temple of Doom? There was no jacket business to bid out. Cooper had the license and as part of this they supplied the jackets for Temple. There was no jacket work to subcontract out. The jackets were made from the patterns Neil Cooper made from the Western Costumes mock-up before Raiders was shot. No jackets were made by the staff at B&N. That is pure fiction from the mind of Peter Botwright as an attempt to discredit others and confuse you all into parting with your money on more of his jackets.
this part doesn't make sense
The jackets were made from the patterns Neil Cooper made from the Western Costumes mock-up before Raiders was shot.
They had to have made entirely new patterns. The ToD jacket is completely different.
Maybe it's something Anthony Powell wanted to be different from Raiders?
this part is exactly what I was flirting with 2 years ago or so.
the terry jacket looks extremely alot like the temple jacket. IMO.
who knows ( probably _ ) that this maby is a mock up jacket from before they shot raiders which Terry then used for this scene and that it later became the jacket pattern for temple?
I just find that these two jackets almost look identical.
same pattern/cut. low yolk. collar looks the same. smaller pockets.
When you mention destruction of jackets in B+N inventory, is that both Raiders and ToD or just ToD?
I'm convinced the Tod jackets were Coopers, but also convinced while he may have started with his patterns made from the WC mock up, he finished with a different jacket.
He made the pockets closer in size to a real A-2 for one thing.
About buckles, the Hawaii Raider jacket also had buckles, but without prongs. TN's buckle on the Raider jacket is pretty much a duplicate in style.
another that would have escaped is the jacket Sgt Hack has.
I agree that we don't see Raiders jackets in Temple of Doom.
I'd like someone to find a shot of Vic wearing his in a scene of the movie. I'm not saying he didn't, just that it must have been a scene in real motion as it isn't obvious.
RCSignals wrote:
I agree that we don't see Raiders jackets in Temple of Doom.
I'd like someone to find a shot of Vic wearing his in a scene of the movie. I'm not saying he didn't, just that it must have been a scene in real motion as it isn't obvious.
According to the write-up for TOD, you don't have to watch Vic to see his Raiders jacket: Ford wears it in some scenes. So there is a Raiders jacket in TOD
RCSignals wrote:
I agree that we don't see Raiders jackets in Temple of Doom.
I'd like someone to find a shot of Vic wearing his in a scene of the movie. I'm not saying he didn't, just that it must have been a scene in real motion as it isn't obvious.
According to the write-up for TOD, you don't have to watch Vic to see his Raiders jacket: Ford wears it in some scenes. So there is a Raiders jacket in TOD
Regards, Geert
i know the write up says that. Find a scene with it though. The Raiders jackets should be easy to tell by their features....
RCSignals wrote:
I agree that we don't see Raiders jackets in Temple of Doom.
I'd like someone to find a shot of Vic wearing his in a scene of the movie. I'm not saying he didn't, just that it must have been a scene in real motion as it isn't obvious.
According to the write-up for TOD, you don't have to watch Vic to see his Raiders jacket: Ford wears it in some scenes. So there is a Raiders jacket in TOD
Regards, Geert
Without trying to be difficult, where do we see this? What scenes do we see Ford wear a Raiders?
the terry jacket looks extremely alot like the temple jacket. IMO.
I can see these similarities as well, Holt. We have been told in the past that we're dealing with a Wilson's in these scenes. Lately, people are leaning more toward the Bantu Wind jackets being used in theses scenes.
The question has been asked before, but not answered that I've scene, why, after making the Imam's jacket, did Cooper refine his pattern to be more like the BW?
Tell me what "major differences" I missed.
To play devil's advocate, the side vents. Quite a bit of difference in those between the Temple and the Raiders.
_ wrote:
Hmmmm... Berman's did not lose the ToD business as costumer. They did both ToD and LC. You are drawing causal relationships between everything, and that's not the case.
Peter was blackballed because he worked for another costumer on a Bond film without telling anybody. I had discussions with both Berman and Howard back in 2000 about this. For Berman it was the last straw with a subcontractor he did not like - personally or professionally. In fact, I had to apologize to Monte and Noel because I opened a can of worms between them. I’m the person who told Monte that Peter worked on Last Crusade, and that Wested Leather was the same company as Leather Concessionaires. Before I told him this, he did not know Peter had been working for them again.
But back to the Temple of Doom? There was no jacket business to bid out. Cooper had the license and as part of this they supplied the jackets for Temple. There was no jacket work to subcontract out. The jackets were made from the patterns Neil Cooper made from the Western Costumes mock-up before Raiders was shot. No jackets were made by the staff at B&N. That is pure fiction from the mind of Peter Botwright as an attempt to discredit others and confuse you all into parting with your money on more of his jackets.
this part doesn't make sense
The jackets were made from the patterns Neil Cooper made from the Western Costumes mock-up before Raiders was shot.
They had to have made entirely new patterns. The ToD jacket is completely different.
Maybe it's something Anthony Powell wanted to be different from Raiders?
Ok, I see where I went astray, in this quote from the Last Crusade write up "This problem related to an incident that had occurred just prior to Temple of Doom beginning production. It involved some issue of 'protocol' surrounding work Leather Concessionaires did on a James Bond film. Berman’s company did not win the contract for that film, and as has been related by several of those involved, Berman and Peter had a falling out at an industry function for that film".
I read "that film" to mean Temple of Doom, not the James Bond film.
Here's my rewrite for idiots (me being the idiot):
"This problem related to an incident that had occurred just prior to Temple of Doom beginning production. It involved some issue of 'protocol' surrounding work Leather Concessionaires did on a James Bond film. Berman’s company did not win the contract for that film, and as has been related by several of those involved, Berman and Peter had a falling out at an industry function for [the Bond] film".
And again, not trying to stoke a fire, but I don't believe the main page write-ups are a good source to quote after recent revelations. For example, Peter apparently used the WC mock-up as a guide for building his jacket, not a James Dean jacket pattern; it looks like it was the BW jacket used in the truck gag, not a Wilsons; and it was the BW jacket that Nadoolman aged by the pool, not one of Peter's , etc.
And this doesn't even cover the MAJOR revelation that Neil Cooper built a jacket that was apparently used in the Imam's house scenes and Hawaii.
RCSignals wrote:
I agree that we don't see Raiders jackets in Temple of Doom.
I'd like someone to find a shot of Vic wearing his in a scene of the movie. I'm not saying he didn't, just that it must have been a scene in real motion as it isn't obvious.
According to the write-up for TOD, you don't have to watch Vic to see his Raiders jacket: Ford wears it in some scenes. So there is a Raiders jacket in TOD
Regards, Geert
Without trying to be difficult, where do we see this? What scenes do we see Ford wear a Raiders?
_ wrote:
In addition, in the "back and fourths" of shooting in Sri Lanka, there were times when Harrison grabbed whatever jacket Vic was wearing instead of his own. This includes his stunt jacket (cooper) during Elephant riding sequences, and his Raiders jacket in the village sequences. It drove Phyllis Townshend nuts (script supervisor / continuity). So…. The NH jacket did see screen time and it was on Ford’s back…
So Vic's Raiders jacket can be seen in the village sequences.
I think it ''acts'' different. looks way more drapy. darker. and the I think I make out a high yoke line. to me it really looks liek a raiders jacket...
Unless it's the night sequence when the boy with the torn manuscript comes up to Indy and you can't make the jacket out clearly (as has been hypothesized before might be where the Raiders jacket was seen), I've never seen a Raiders jacket in the village scenes.
I've forgotten where the info came from that a Raiders jacket made it on to the screen in ToD.
crismans wrote:And again, not trying to stoke a fire, but I don't believe the main page write-ups are a good source to quote after recent revelations. For example, Peter apparently used the WC mock-up as a guide for building his jacket, not a James Dean jacket pattern; it looks like it was the BW jacket used in the truck gag, not a Wilsons; and it was the BW jacket that Nadoolman aged by the pool, not one of Peter's , etc.
And this doesn't even cover the MAJOR revelation that Neil Cooper built a jacket that was apparently used in the Imam's house scenes and Hawaii.
Oh, so your saying we should not be reading the main page eh? Just kidding there Crismans. I understand the point your making there.
I think it ''acts'' different. looks way more drapy. darker. and the I think I make out a high yoke line. to me it really looks liek a raiders jacket...
but then again it IS very unclear.
Just remember that this was shot at the ILM property with stand-ins, if I remember right. They may have just grabbed a costume out of the archives.
I think it ''acts'' different. looks way more drapy. darker. and the I think I make out a high yoke line. to me it really looks liek a raiders jacket...
but then again it IS very unclear.
the reaason it looks different is because in this scene it was the stunt guy walking down the path, not harrison ford , they shot this when harrison was in the hospital , hence the different look.
_ wrote:Oh - Vic wearing his jacket? Easy. In the scene where Willie and SR disarm the room with the spikes and rush in. That's Vic she passes. We see his face. That's his jacket he's wearing. Vic is doing stand-in duty as Ford is in traction due to his back.
It should be his jacket then, when they manacle Indy and SR in the cage with the kid who describes the black sleep. All the over the shoulder shots of Indy are Vic, I've always believed, as the hair cut is different. Looks to me that shots of Ford were inserted.
indyclone wrote: the reaason it looks different is because in this scene it was the stunt guy walking down the path, not harrison ford , they shot this when harrison was in the hospital , hence the different look.
Nope. As stated earlier this was filmed back at the Ranch with ILMers. I believe its on one of the DVD behind the scenes and the village huts were just painted cardboard as reference for mat shots later.
The end scenes in the village, where the vegetation was lush and villagers colorfully dressed were actually shot first on location, then the village destroyed to shoot the scenes that first appear in the movie.
_ wrote:Oh - Vic wearing his jacket? Easy. In the scene where Willie and SR disarm the room with the spikes and rush in. That's Vic she passes. We see his face. That's his jacket he's wearing. Vic is doing stand-in duty as Ford is in traction due to his back.
It should be his jacket then, when they manacle Indy and SR in the cage with the kid who describes the black sleep. All the over the shoulder shots of Indy are Vic, I've always believed, as the hair cut is different. Looks to me that shots of Ford were inserted.
you are correct , sir , most of the shots of indy from the back are vic , they had to shoot alot around harrison while he was away in the hospital , even the shot of indy and willie and shorty running from the water is also vic , then they cut away to the full shot of harrison running its funny cause you can see the difference in the stance from vic to hharrison when they run .
Maybe someone who is good at capturing screen shots will do thoe and post them
I still don't see an obvious Raiders jacket. Could the continuity person have forced Vic to wear Ford's ToD jacket when ford was a way and Vic filled in? for much of it the jacket wasn't worn but still.
RCSignals wrote:another that would have escaped is the jacket Sgt Hack has.
I agree that we don't see Raiders jackets in Temple of Doom.
I'd like someone to find a shot of Vic wearing his in a scene of the movie. I'm not saying he didn't, just that it must have been a scene in real motion as it isn't obvious.
See... I don't know whether he has a jacket or just the patterns Neil made. In my conversations over the years he's referenced the patterns, but I've not heard or noticed a reference to a jacket. ......
I was meaning specifically the jacket Sgt Hack has that Cooper gave him, and apparently was an 'unused' stunt jacket. Sgt Hack used it to have the 'blue Label' jacket made. It is a very different jacket in details and would not be one of the main 'Hero' style jackets.
You probably know the one I refer to. In the context of jackets destroyed and Sgt Hack's story for it, it would be a jacket that escaped destruction.
) that this maby is a mock up jacket from before they shot raiders which Terry then used for this scene and that it later became the jacket pattern for temple?
I understand the point your making there.
