So AUSTRALIAN HJs DO EXIST AFTERALL!!!

[hp]

Hm, sure every penny matters, but every penny is worth keeping the look&feel. At least to me.
Why not going with the original suppliers? Instead of taking risks with new ones...
I still find it hard to believe it's just about money or location (US vs. Europe).
There have to be other reasons not going with what was successful in the past. I mean why not going with Nadoolman etc. in ToD?
Strange, isn't it? What do you think?

[BendingOak]

Hm, sure every penny matters, but every penny is worth keeping the look&feel. At least to me.
Why not going with the original suppliers? Instead of taking risks with new ones...
I still find it hard to believe it's just about money or location (US vs. Europe).
There have to be other reasons not going with what was successful in the past. I mean why not going with Nadoolman etc. in ToD?
Strange, isn't it? What do you think?

We are getting a little off topic but If SS and GL didn't like her work. I can understand them not wanting to use her again but look how the gear changed from 1 to 2, and 3. That and some of the things she talks about makes me think the Raiders look is hers not anyone else.

[Local Land Surveyor]

..Uhhhh... Is that a chin strap at seven o'clock? I looked at the DVD and it's not something on the floor.

It could be the corner of the magazine that the hat is laying on, 3thoubucks. It look to be down off the table and showing up under the hat in this shot.

Nice find Erri. This does give additional proof that Herbert Johnson did make an "Australian Model" hat.
I look at Nadoolmans account of the costume as this: She is the one that Steven gives public credit to "refining the costume". When I hear her talk of how the hat came around, she is speaking of what she did to achieve a look she was after. Using a Austarian model hat, this gave her a "canvas" to work with. She has stated that the hats for Raiders were only made to match her concept. The hats were not made for anyone else, meaning, you couldn't just "find" these hats in your local hat store setting on the shelf. They were made for Indy's character. That's my take. To add, just because she had a falling out with Steven, does not change what she did to achieve the look of the hat.

About the flat brim. I agree. I think the brim may fall more into curling that flanging. Here is an example of the hat showing a flat brim and it is not on a table.






Looks flat to me. He even curls the brim himself in the same footage.
LLS

[Indiana Jeff]

It's not so much trying to take credit aways from DN. _ demonstrated she had very little to do with the jackets we see on screen in ROLA despite her statements of being central in its selection so I find suspect anything she says about her involvement with other elements of the costume. Especially when there have been contradictory stories for years.

Is the ROLA hat better than TOD or LC? I think so. Is it only due to DN? Doubtful.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[BendingOak]

It's not so much trying to take credit aways from DN. _ demonstrated she had very little to do with the jackets we see on screen in ROLA despite her statements of being central in its selection so I find suspect anything she says about her involvement with other elements of the costume. Especially when there have been contradictory stories for years.

Is the ROLA hat better than TOD or LC? I think so. Is it only due to DN? Doubtful.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

I have yet to see proof of her not being involved in any of the gear. Unless the proof is in front of me I don't buy it.

I never said she was the only one involved in the costume but she was very important in the look. The proof is what the costume looked like after she left. It changed a lot in my book.

[Fedora]

I guess the first idea was to go for the original manufacturers and shortly after someone must have come in and said "hey watch for the budget! Buying from the UK would cost too much".

Trust me on this. Money was not an issue, at all. But I don't want to divulge any info other than this.

I agree with LLS. What he said.

On the brim, well, the Raven hat sure was flanged, as you can see when he exits the bar. In fact, a nice flange job, if I recall correctly. I think like with alot of hats, the flange job relaxes, although I sure can't say if all of the hats were flanged, or just some of them. There seems to be both kinds in the film.

[RCSignals]

Pollack isn't necessarily lying. Swales has died and Leather Concessionairies and Cooper no longer exist as those intellectual entities. It can be said he was telling the truth, though stretching it quite a bit. I've never heard that though. Can you cite where he said that? Dave

viewtopic.php?t=29310 About half way down the page the article is posted with Bernie's quote.

I can see your point that by the narrowest definition it could be argued that the original makers are no longer around, but really, put 'Indiana Jones Leather Jacket' or 'Indiana Jones Fedora' into Google and you'll get hits for Wested and a myriad of references to HJ. Bernie works in the film industry, he would know what industry suppliers from the trilogy are around and which no longer are regardless of individual staffing or company name/ownership changes. Now, I'll agree that he did have to put in time and energy to find new suppliers in Steve, Marc, and Tony, but to say he had to start from scratch is overstating it. It was Peter Botwright that referred Bernie to AB so obviously Bernie knew about one of the original suppliers.

So, to bring it back around the barn as Michaelson might say, we are fortunate to have interviews with the actual suppliers (AB), recorded basically in real time, that allows us to know exactly how the hat evolved from samples (Steve/Marc pushing for a tight Raiders bash that Bernie didn't like) to the screen used hats. Back in the day, by the time some of our founders started chasing down leads for ROLA gear (via phone and snail mail), memories had already started to fade and stories didn't always line up on all sides of the supply chain. Add to that the issues SS had with DN's work on the jacket and I go back to my original 'grain of salt' post. To me, just because DN says it's so, don't necessarily make it so.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

what you've written should tell you something about what we have become to know as 'original makers' for Raiders. It is what Bernie Pollack was referring to when he said they don't exist anymore.

[Fedora]

It is what Bernie Pollack was referring to when he said they don't exist anymore.

What Bernie was referring to was Swales and B and N were no longer in existence, along with the folks that made the shirt and pants. While Peter founded Wested, he was not B and N. I think he worked for them. So, in this respect, Bernie was right, and that is what he was referring to. I think he got it right, with his remarks.

Bernie ran into problems with Wested. I cannot divulge that account, as it is personal. Add it that the fact that England was not somewhre Bernie could just walk to to see how the jacket project was coming along.But trust me on this one. But we are really off topic here. Natural for me, but not so for 3M$. So, to get back......Fedora

[Fedora]

Is the ROLA hat better than TOD or LC? I think so. Is it only due to DN? Doubtful.

IMO, yes the Raiders fedora looked better than the other two hats. And IMO, this was due to DN. Afterall, she designed that first hat, from scratch. Just look at how unusual the Raiders fedora is! That hat has magic. Fedora

[RCSignals]

Explanation of the eyelets and snap is easy if H-J manufactured the hats. They would only have to specify production without them. There is another problem though in that these hats are the wrong shade of brown. They tend more to an Army green tinge. this though could be simply a matter of H-j at the manufacturing level specifying a batch in a specific colour.

[Fedora]

Explanation of the eyelets and snap is easy if H-J manufactured the hats. They would only have to specify production without them. There is another problem though in that these hats are the wrong shade of brown. They tend more to an Army green tinge. this though could be simply a matter of H-j at the manufacturing level specifying a batch in a specific colour.

I think she used the Aussie hat to make the prototype. Then this was used as the model for the hats Swales got made, or made for her. I doubt if he got Aussie hats made, with no eyelets, and this is where he probably used an old stock HJ, the Poet, to create the final hat, in brown. The 3 inch brim of the Poet, would lend itself to this. And it would explain why he said he used a Poet. Fedora.

[RCSignals]

That makes sense. The 'Aussie' hat may just have been what was in the shop at the time that she was there.

[Odo]

I guess, as Indy's colthes are in some way inspired by Harry Steele's, that DN's first choice was to pick an Aussie hat, with a very wide brim, as a starting point, and along the period of design of Indy's fedora, somehow it ended as a mix of it and a classic fedora of the 30s.
So you get a hat that has that period image, but also the look of the adventure hat fome "Secret of the Incas"...

[Fedora]

I guess, as Indy's colthes are in some way inspired by Harry Steele's, that DN's first choice was to pick an Aussie hat, with a very wide brim, as a starting point, and along the period of design of Indy's fedora, somehow it ended as a mix of it and a classic fedora of the 30s.
So you get a hat that has that period image, but also the look of the adventure hat fome "Secret of the

Yeah, I bet she was inspired by other adventure films. And probably somewhat by Bogie and his fav hat, which may have been why she went with a fedora. It was "everyman's hat" at some point in time. Fedora

[Harry Steele]

Even Alan Ladd in "China."



Imagine, here's Indy explaining to Short Round's father. . . .

[RCSignals]

You think so? Every penny matters, especially when you're making a multimillion dollar film. It doesn't mean they went "cheap" (Tony Nowak seems much more expensive than Wested). It's just a simple logistic choice. If there is a problem it takes longer to send the jackets or the hats back to England to be corrected, alterated or fixed.

If Steve wasn't from the States I'm sure that they would have never gave him the job, for the simple reason that moving hats over seas would slow things down if any problem occurred.

About what you said on Noel Howard and others, Noel didn't seem to be bothered at all by the fact that they didn't contact him again. He already had plenty of work and I'm sure he was not going to accept anyway if they had asked. In that period he was away to Syria for months and was just considering a new job in Libya (which he eventually accepted).

For Indy 4 they did not choose suppliers just because they were in the US. That has become a convenient thing for some to believe. Marc supplied hats as well as Steve, and his were not made in the US.
They had many companies submit for the job of various pieces and not all of them were in the US. The ones who could supply what was wanted got the job.

[3thoubucks]

It's not a chin strap OR the whip. I paid a guy at a Video Only to let me freeze the shot on a big flatscreen. It's a metal hook. This so called "table top" seems to be a metal pan about an inch deep. .. Reminds me of a couple of Lost Ark documentarys I've seen. They go to an island in a lake in Ethiopia where the Ark of the Covenant is claimed to have been kept a long time ago. Priests bring some ancient Ark related relics out of a padlocked warehouse, including a big pan that animals were sacrificed on.

[Erri]

Marc supplied hats as well as Steve, and his were not made in the US.
They had many companies submit for the job of various pieces and not all of them were in the US. The ones who could supply what was wanted got the job.

The hats were still going through Steve and Bernie dealt with him as far as I know, I don't know if the producers even knew that half of the hats were made in Germany.

All I'm saying is that I believe the most important parts of the gear were preferably sourced in the States, maybe not for money, I'm surely wrong about that, but to avoid logistic problems... such as the costumier not being able to overlook the making of such important elements

[Fedora]

It's a metal hook. This so called "table top" seems to be a metal pan about an inch deep. ..

Good detective work!

The hats were still going through Steve and Bernie dealt with him as far as I know, I don't know if the producers even knew that half of the hats were made in Germany.

The truth of the matter is, Bernie wanted to stay as local as he could. This figured in to whom he used, in a big way. That is a fact. I think the pants and shirt were made at Western Costume.

Also, no one but Bernie knew that half the hats were made in Germany. But since the gig was with me, only I got mentioned. I was the only one responsible for insuring the hats, both of ours, were clones. I would take the hats Marc made, and do what I needed to do to make them look like mine. Mostly involved tweaking his bows so all would be clones. I guess I can claim all of the bow work is mine. But that's about it. And I creased all of the hats, per Bernie's specs. This is his hat, not mine.

Back to topic. 3M$, you got that hat yet? Any thoughts on it? Fedora

[DR Ulloa]

From what I remember reading, Bernie was first put into contact with Marc, not Steve. Bernie also kept in contact with Marc but endedup speaking mostly with Steve because of the time difference. Let's not forget that the first sample set to Bernie was an AB Deluxe. I think that this, saying that AB got the job because they were Stateside, diminishes their accomplishment. They got it because they were and are the best. If Bernie wanted someone he could stand over while he made the hats, he'd have gone with Baron. But he didn't. He went with a dude half a continent away and his partner, half a world away.

Dave

[Michaelson]

Peter Botwright first put Bernie in contact with Steve, THEN Steve brought Marc into the mix. The rest is history.

Regards! Michaelson

[Fedora]

They got it because they were and are the best. If Bernie wanted someone he could stand over while he made the hats, he'd have gone with Baron. But he didn't. He went with a dude half a continent away and his partner, half a world away.

Ok, I have to agree. Bernie already had many samples in from other hatters, and no one was close to what he was looking for. That changed when he got Marc's hat from John G., followed the next day with my own. Both were Raider hats though. I felt something was not quite right, per a phone conversation, and decided to send him another block shape, the vintage one, and he jumped on it. We then got the gig. I then found out after the film was out, that he knew he had found the right hatters, with our first samples. Which of course, he never mentioned at the time. So, we were a shoe in, we just had no clue! It really does help you out when you are already specializing in Indy fedoras. Anally so. Fedora

[Fedora]

Peter Botwright first put Bernie in contact with Steve, THEN Steve brought Marc into the mix. The rest is history.

No, old friend, that is not quite correct. Bernie called Marc first, and me the next day. But for some reason, Bernie and I hit it off, on a personal level, and I just have to feel this influenced whom he was to use as point man, but the location figured into it as well. There was a time, when I was told to drop Marc, as Bernie was paying for Marc to overnight his hats to me. But, when Bernie found out Steven was to pick the hat, that changed. He then told me, because of the time factor to use Marc to help me out. But even during the time that Marc was not supposed to be involved, Marc still was. He had to pay the overnight shipping out of his own pocket! It was a huge relief for Marc when I told him, he could use their Fed Ex number again to ship overnight to me! Fedora

[Michaelson]

Very well.

It's your story, and I stand corrected.

Regards! Michaelson

[Fedora]

Well, you are seldom wrong old friend. Peter actually called me and Marc, but not sure in which order. Too long ago. He told us that Bernie would be calling us. Bernie then called Marc first. Not sure how long it was before Marc called me, but I was able to make a hat and get it to Bernie the day after John sent his own hat to Bernie, for Marc, so Bernie must have called me right after Marc, or the same day. Seems like it was later on though, and not right after he talked to Marc. But hey, I kept you in the loop of what was going on at that time, so.........you might know even better than me! I did that for a reason. I might need ya sometime later on. And Mike our Admin was in the loop as well. You two guys know the WHOLE STORY, as it was occuring in that time period, as I kept you guys updated, unbeknowst to everyone else. And you guys know some stuff that is not public knowledge, the dirty part of this story, which would do no one any good to repeat it. But, after I die, you may let it rip if you want. There was alot of gossippy stuff going on, insider info. And it won't die with me. Fedora

[Fedora]

--I don't think it's the Rosetta Stone for the Raiders block though. I figured out the camera was so close, it made the crown look full- that's been the case with almost every hat I've won on e-bay. - I asked the seller if the white sweat was leather, she though it might be vinyl. She said the previous owner indicated it was 60's vintage, but who knows. I think it might be floppy felt. Look at the first pic, the edge of the brim just right of center- it seems to be conforming to ridges on the suface it's on.

Yeah, I don't see the Raiders block on this hat. And honestly, I have never seen an Aussie hat with that Raiders blockshape. So, why? That is open for debate. And we don't see the Raiders block on the later HJs. None of the HJs I have seen are straight sided enough, to be the Raiders hat. This is one mystery, that I doubt will never be solved. The man who could do it, is dead. That leaves us with an wide open field for conjecture. And honestly, I hope we never know all of the details. It would take much of the mystery out of the hat. But most agree, it was a one of a kind fedora, from HJ. Fedora

[DR Ulloa]

Well, they had to have made more than one...

Dave

[Erri]

The truth of the matter is, Bernie wanted to stay as local as he could. This figured in to whom he used, in a big way. That is a fact. I think the pants and shirt were made at Western Costume.

Thanks Steve for confirming my supposition. Good job the involved people are around otherwise truth would have been already out of the window.
Ok sorry for hi-jacking my OWN thread

But most agree, it was a one of a kind fedora, from HJ. Fedora

I thought over the years you had collected several hats which had been blocked on that straight-sided block, am I mistaken?

[RCSignals]

The truth of the matter is, Bernie wanted to stay as local as he could. This figured in to whom he used, in a big way. That is a fact. I think the pants and shirt were made at Western Costume.

Thanks Steve for confirming my supposition. Good job the involved people are around otherwise truth would have been already out of the window.
Ok sorry for hi-jacking my OWN thread

............

Your supposition has only been partly confirmed. If you read the rest of what has been said location was not a defining concern in a company getting the job. Yes close proximity and location would always be a preference, but as I said:

"They had many companies submit for the job of various pieces and not all of them were in the US. The ones who could supply what was wanted got the job."

The best of what was submitted and those who would supply what was asked for got the job, not just what was submitted from the US. It mostly turned out that US companies were selected, but it didn't turn out that way by pre-determined design.

[Erri]

All I'm saying is that I believe the most important parts of the gear were preferably sourced in the States

I don't see any contraddiction between my words, yours or Steve's. Bernie preferred to go "local" as Steve pointed out. Obviously he looked everywhere but he already started with a mind of soucing as close as possible, he was very lucky to have Adventurebuilt company in his own country. I don't deny that he might have bought the hat from Germany, Britain or elsewhere if really needed but while the hat was an important detail, the jacket could be made elsewhere than Britain and so they did. Same with the shirt and trousers

The point that I was trying to make from the beginning is that Bernie Pollack is trying to make us understand that since EVERY previous company involved in the gear was either dead or out of business he had to do all by himself, poor man, researching the costume and reproducing it, glory glory.
I say he's just trying to make himself bigger than he is since it's not entirely true that the previous people involved in the trilogy disappeared. Peter was there and as far as I know made a jacket that looks identical to what Tony Nowak was later on asked to produce. Noel Howard was still alive when they were in pre-production but they didn't care of giving him the job, they just needed some "info".

the only reason why he ignored the previous manufacturers is that they were mostly British and this time they were not shooting in Elstree so they went for American manufacturers and suppliers which were closer and cheaper.

If they were shooting in England I have no doubt they would have gave the job to Peter and British costumiers (which are still plenty, Noel didn't work by himself at MBA). Every other reason we've heard on why they went for other (American) option (such as: deceased costumiers, out of businesss companies, lousy jackets) are just lies to cover the simple fact that local products were preferred from the start when possible.

Since the film was shot entirely in the States there was no real interest in sourcing the original manufacturers. They contacted them but as soon as a closer option showed up they jumped for it.

[RCSignals]

All I'm saying is that I believe the most important parts of the gear were preferably sourced in the States

I don't see any contraddiction between my words, yours or Steve's. Bernie preferred to go "local" as Steve pointed out. Obviously he looked everywhere but he already started with a mind of soucing as close as possible, he was very lucky to have Adventurebuilt company in his own country. I don't deny that he might have bought the hat from Germany, Britain or elsewhere if really needed but while the hat was an important detail, the jacket could be made elsewhere than Britain and so they did. Same with the shirt and trousers

The point that I was trying to make from the beginning is that Bernie Pollack is trying to make us understand that since EVERY previous company involved in the gear was either dead or out of business he had to do all by himself, poor man, researching the costume and reproducing it, glory glory.
I say he's just trying to make himself bigger than he is since it's not entirely true that the previous people involved in the trilogy disappeared. Peter was there and as far as I know made a jacket that looks identical to what Tony Nowak was later on asked to produce. Noel Howard was still alive when they were in pre-production but they didn't care of giving him the job, they just needed some "info".

the only reason why he ignored the previous manufacturers is that they were mostly British and this time they were not shooting in Elstree so they went for American manufacturers and suppliers which were closer and cheaper.

If they were shooting in England I have no doubt they would have gave the job to Peter and British costumiers (which are still plenty, Noel didn't work by himself at MBA). Every other reason we've heard on why they went for other (American) option (such as: deceased costumiers, out of businesss companies, lousy jackets) are just lies to cover the simple fact that local products were preferred from the start when possible.

Since the film was shot entirely in the States there was no real interest in sourcing the original manufacturers. They contacted them but as soon as a closer option showed up they jumped for it.

Sorry Erri I can't agree with all of that. If Bernie started with the mindset to stay local he would have only tendered local.

I don't think anything would have changed had the enterprise been in England. He went for the best and for who worked best with and for him.

As for the jacket, the statement "Peter was there and as far as I know made a jacket that looks identical to what Tony Nowak was later on asked to produce." is incorrect.
The final jacket is not identical to what was produced by Wested. Originally tony Nowak wasn't even in te running for that jacket, he got the job as he was approached by Bernie to do it, and ended up providing what Bernie asked for. No other jacket maker did.

There are reason's Bernie stated original suppliers were not available, and some of that has been touched on in other discussions.

[Fedora]

I thought over the years you had collected several hats which had been blocked on that straight-sided block, am I mistaken?

Oh yes, and all were really old. Which added credence to some of my own theories regarding the Raider fedoras. I have yet to see a modern HJ that looked just like the Raider fedora. So, the Poet of old, was not the later Poet. It changed, and is probably due to the fact that the same factory was not used. The old factory probably went belly up.

The old HJs that I owned were ALL very high quality hats. And totally different in quality from the later ones. But then, most hats in the old days were higher quality, so....

Your supposition has only been partly confirmed. If you read the rest of what has been said location was not a defining concern in a company getting the job. Yes close proximity and location would always be a preference, but as I said:

"They had many companies submit for the job of various pieces and not all of them were in the US. The ones who could supply what was wanted got the job."

We really don't know just how much location figured into the equation, as we can't get inside Bernie's head. All I know is in my hours of conversation with him, I got the idea, he preferred the suppliers being local. He expressed that to me. He liked being able to go and see the progress being made with the other items of the costume. No doubt, if he could have found a hatter in LA, he would have used them.

[Fedora]

As for the jacket, the statement "Peter was there and as far as I know made a jacket that looks identical to what Tony Nowak was later on asked to produce." is incorrect.
The final jacket is not identical to what was produced by Wested. Originally tony Nowak wasn't even in te running for that jacket, he got the job as he was approached by Bernie to do it, and ended up providing what Bernie asked for. No other jacket maker did.

That is correct. The person that nailed the jacket that Bernie had in hand, got the gig. Tony did it first. I don't know if Peter if copied it right. perhaps he did. But besides copying what Bernie had from the Lucas warehouse, he(Bernie) also had made some changes to the pattern. Tony nailed it first, and the rest is history. Fedora

[Erri]

I thought over the years you had collected several hats which had been blocked on that straight-sided block, am I mistaken?

Oh yes, and all were really old. Which added credence to some of my own theories regarding the Raider fedoras.

No doubts about the quality... but I am very curious about this block. If you do have (or have had) vintage HJs which were originally made on the same block as the Raiders hat then there is no real mystery around this block afterall is there?

[Fedora]

If you do have (or have had) vintage HJs which were originally made on the same block as the Raiders hat then there is no real mystery around this block afterall is there?

Yes, but only because you stopped seeing this blockshape after Raiders was made. The mystery is, why is this so? But, really, honestly, I can't say 100 per cent that any of the old HJs I owned were the exact Raiders block. I would have to have a real film hat in hand to say for sure. I felt that perhaps it was the same block, but so many blocks will yeild that look, and to know for certain would have to include having an original hat to compare to what i had. A 3D comparison would tell the truth. So, I have conjectured regarding the old HJs. But compared to the later HJs, the old HJs sure looked more accurate to the film hats. And honestly, that is really all I can say. Fedora

[Erri]

Right, so the mystery block is mysterious only because it's in use nowadays (and not in the last 20 years).

This is something I just thought but I would like to hear your opinion Steve, after seeing some miracles such as from Holt bashing his hats... it comes to think though, what IF... what if the block from ToD and LC was still the same as the Raiders one, but they just couldn't bash it right? Could have been the lowering quality of HJ felts, the costume designer wanting a different style or not being able to do what Nadoolman did... whatever reason.
In short, if Holt (and few others) managed to obtain perfect looking Cairo hats from hats like old Akubras and other brands, can we really be sure that it wasn't just the bashing job that changed in the sequels?

[Fedora]

can we really be sure that it wasn't just the bashing job that changed in the sequels?

Well, in my opinion, the blocks used are different. It shows in several areas of the hat. The radius on the top sides is totally different from the other two hats. Yet, with that said, the hat Indy wears in TLC, on the tank, looks very similiar to the Raiders block. It's the closest hat to the Raiders, IMO. But I see variance in the hats in TLC. Of course, Stetsons were placed in that film too, so..... The TOD, nope, totally different hat. It has a blocked in taper. That is obvious to me, anyways. Also, I think some of TLC hats were actually just a little shorter in crown, and narrower in brim, which could affect the final look too. But, just another opinion here. But I think most hatters would say the Raiders hat was just a different hat. Fedora

[Erri]

Well we know that Stetson was only in one single scene.
Some of the hats in ToD have been clearly badly bashed (deep center crease, no turn, no channels) and what's worse, they got very wet, soaked actually, not to mention that the felt supplier had changed and the film was shot in a very wet country as opposite to LC where there was almost no water at all except for the boat at the beginning, the rest was shot in the desert/Spain. All dry places like Tunisia.

I perfectly understand your points Steve and do believe that ToD and LC were factory made (probably on a block that was close to the 1981 block that Swales had in the store or that was in use until 1981 or thereabouts) but I'm just talking of supposition here, taking all things in consideration it cannot be ruled out completely that ToD and LC hats might have been from the same block or from a very similar one and just underwent different and less skillful bashing, distressing etc.

Again, this is just for the sake of talking, I'm not pretending to have any truth, nor evidence. From a Raiders hat lover to another.

[Fedora]

Again, this is just for the sake of talking, I'm not pretending to have any truth, nor evidence. From a Raiders hat lover to another.

We all have our opinions Erri. I can't take the leap of saying the Raiders block was used in the others. I just can't see it. I have to see with my own eyes to believe it, and at least for this old dude, I just can't see enough similarity. Way back when I first started looking for a Raiders fedora I thought all 3 film hats were the same. A hatter here, told me, after I had brought him stills from all 3 films, that the hats were not the same. Once he told me this, and I studied the hats, I agreed with him, and have not changed my mind since that day, many years ago. So, for me, I can't entertain that idea today. But, it is just my opinion. Fedora

[BendingOak]

Would you say that TOD and LC are the same block?

[DR Ulloa]

I'd venture to say so, but I'm no hatter. I think the biggest reason why the ToD hat shows so much taper is because of the crease. The block had taper too, but not as much as we see on screen, I think. The LC hat usually had a shallow top crease and a soft pinch. But when we do see a deep center dent on the LC hat, it looks very tapered. It may not be identical, but I think the LC hat has more in common with the ToD hat than the Raiders hat, thats for sure. And of all the hats in ToD and LC, I think the hat in the bridge scene of ToD looks most like the Raiders hat.

Dave

[Fedora]

Would you say that TOD and LC are the same block?

So hard to call it really John. I really need to do some study to see. I do recall at least one TOD hat that had a blocked in taper, which I don't see on the LC hat. And, I have never really studied either the TOD or TLC fedora very much at all. My time has been spent with the Raiders fedora. It is just my impression they both were different from the Raiders fedora, that comes from watching those films mega times. It stands out to me personally. If I make a TOD hat or LC hat though, I do use the same block for both, which has some taper in the block. A number 2 block. I don't specialize in either of those hats though, and as I said, never really studied them to any great degree.

Dave the hat on the bridge in TOD is the best of the TOD hats to me, and looks different than some of the other TOD hats. I always thought that might be the Stetson, but can't say for sure, as no one here can. I think Stetson placed a hat in TOD too, but perhaps someone knows for sure. They tried to place one in Indy 4, or so I was told.

I guess the TOD hat and LC hat could be the same blockshape, but in TLC, some of those hats look better than others, that is, more Raider like in blockshape. The tank hat comes to mind right off the bat.

Finally, the LC hat was not the same felt as the Raiders, and the TOD wasn't either. So how much does the felt used play into this? Probably more than one would think at first glance. I do know a stiffer felt seems to take the blockshape different than a soft felt. And also takes the creases differently as well, another factor to consider. I have never owned a modern HJ that looked right though, even with the sofer felt they have been using. I can't get the Raiders hat from a stock HJ, on a 360 view. And that sends up a red flag for me. Fedora

[3thoubucks]

Got it, and THERE'S NOTHING IN COMMON WITH THE RAIDERS HAT. Open crowned, the block is exactly like my Akubra civilian "military slouch" in the side view, but the sides taper, and my Akubra's sides don't. 6 inch crown. The felt is thick and coarse, not too stiff. The sweat is vinyl and there are no tags to indicate age or street address. ...

[jlee562]

I was under the impression that the Stetson was the hat used in the plane interior?

[Fedora]

I was under the impression that the Stetson was the hat used in the plane interior

My guess is this is a hat held over from Raiders. The one that got soaked at the beginning of the film. The ribbon is loose on the top, which shows the felt has shrunk under it. The crown doesn't look like the other TOD hats either. This one looks to be an old hat. This is the only place we see this hat in TOD. Take a new rabbit hat, saturate it, let it dry, and it will look like this one. Fedora

[Fedora]

6 inch crown.

A 6 incher. Wow. But, this would give Swales plenty of crown to reblock. And as many know, a fuller block inside a tapered 6 inch crown lends a shorter hat. And this would be a great hat to use to make the prototype. Wide brim, high crown. Remember D.N. mentioning the tall crown? This theory is making more and more sense. Fedora

[3thoubucks]

[Fedora]

No, not the Raider blockshape. But with it being 6 inches, plenty of room to play with if you reblocked it. Thanks! Fedora

[BendingOak]

I can see what she saw ( DL). A raw body.

[generalFROSTY]

Gotta love those raw bodies!