The Ultimate Penman Raiders Fedora

[Garrett]

Hi folks, new here but am learning more every day. I'd like to share my experience with John Penman and the Raiders Rabbit fedora that almost wasn't.

Ordered my first indy hat from John back in September but lost my job on January 1st of this year. When I told John that I needed a refund (end of January) he said that I was only two weeks away from receiving my raiders rabbit after 5 months of waiting. Contacted my folks for a loan to get the bills covered but to also secure my hat from John. Upon the activation of my COW account I was reading through all of the raiders fedora threads and started to get really nervous about the dimensions being correct for a small headed guy like myself (21 3/4" or 6 7/8 + 1/16th Round Oval) and immediately started to email John about how accurate the hat would look on my with the crown height dropped slightly under 5 1/2" Open with brim being 2 3/4" X 2 1/2" - John assured me that this would be fine on me and I was still in doubt thinking that it should be 4 3/4" crown with 2 5/8" X 2 3/8"

Upon arriving today to receive my hat, I'm ashamed to say that I was still kind of skeptical that the specs would fit me but as soon as John put this thing on my head I knew HE WAS RIGHT. Learned today - ALWAYS TRUST YOUR HATTER! I'm sorry John, it won't happen again

This rabbit felt has the perfect pounce job and is extremely responsive to bash. Definitely the best Raiders fedora that I've seen to date (Apologies to Steve & Marc however I will be submitting an order with those gentlemen soon). John remarked that this hat may be his best Raiders Fedora to date but definitely secured the title of his best rabbit to date and the pics show why.

Also, the Bengaline hat box that John commissioned from Sarah's hat boxes is a work of art in and of itself - sturdy chip board construction (Acid Free) with a ribbon-esque sheen to it. The carrying rope handle on this hat box is stunning!

Thanks for a great fedora and a lesson learned

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3722.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3723.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3724.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3725.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3726.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3727.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3728.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3697.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3706.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3710.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3711.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3717.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3718.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3721.jpg

(Moderator edit: pictures turned to links due to size and number of images. Welcome aboard, but please review the rules as posted here: http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=41780 )

[Garrett]

Forgot to mention that I specifically requested for John to stitch the ribbon in such a way that it would eventually ride up for a good SOC effect.

On the hat box front, I forgot to mention that the box insert was cleverly crafted to avoid the "ring" marks typically associated with vintage hat boxes which have the cardboard in direct contact with the felt, thus embedding the "ring" over time.

[thedurdens]

Garrett,
Welcome, man! That hat looks AWESOME! You gotta throw up that pic of you wearing the hat because the hat looks great and great on you as well. John is a pleasure to deal with and I can't wait to get my next hat as it will come with one of those classy hat boxes.

Lots of luck with that hat of yours and wear 'er in good health.

In our hatter we trust,
Frank

[DR Ulloa]

Welcome Garrett. Check your wallet at the door. This is an expensive hobby, but a fun one. And that Penman...best Raiders hat I've ever seen. Hands down. I envy you.

Dave

[TenuredProfessor]

I'm speechless...

Garrett..first off, welcome to COW!!
Second, that's THE finest example of what I want from a Penman Raiders. I never thought of the tight ribbon thing. Thank you!! I'm still breaking in my Henry, but a rabbit Raiders just like yours is my next step. You have yourself a magnificent hat ! Wow. I'm gonna refer to this post when I order mine from John. Wow again, man...stellar!

[Garrett]

Thanks for the warm welcome, guys. Thought I'd post the awesome "mushroom" effect on this felt after just the first day -

http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3733.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3734.jpg
http://i522.photobucket.com/albums/w342 ... G_3737.jpg

[TenuredProfessor]

Ahhhgghh! Did I miss a thread about the tight ribbon thing? That's perfect Garrett!!! It's taking all my will power not to click over to http://www.penmanhats.com and order my hat ..... and eat ramen for the rest of the month Put it on and post some pics!

[Fedora]

Here's the deal. If you take any Raiders fedora, from film stills, and use the 39 mm ribbon as the rosetta stone for determining dimensions of the crown, you will find that at the front pinch, the hat is 4 1/2 inchs tall. On the sides, a hair less than 5 inches, and the back, depending upon the scene 3 3/4 inches to a max of 4 inches. I think I have these right, going by my fading memory. LLS did an extensive study of this hat, as I have as well, and our figures jive with one another.

Most Raiders fedoras are made too tall. It's a caricature, but not nearly as bad as 10 years ago, when most of us thought the hat was 5 3/4 to 6 inches tall open crown!

This one hat just isn't as tall as our eyes tell us it is. It is an illusion of film. It only looks tall until you use the ribbon to determine its actual height.

With this said, I have to admit, that I seldom make this fedora with those dimensions. Mostly because of perception, the customer's perception. We sell perceptions. Most hatters do. But in certain scenes, or stills, you can see the hat is actually shorter, although there are not that many that show it in this manner.

I have never did a study of the Raiders next to the CS. I, hopefully in a year, will have the time to do it! But my guts tells me, the CS hat, at least the 5 1/2 open crowned one, is a bit taller than the Raiders fedora. The one hat that accidently got into the film, the 5 1/4 open crowned one, with the 2 7/8 by 2 5/8 brim, actually looks to have the same height as the Raiders. Right now, I feel the Raiders fedora was 5 1/4 to 5 3/8 open crown, and with the block used, lends what we see on film.

All blocks are not the same. And this really shows up when you make a hat that matches the film specs for Raiders. The top of the dome has to be just right, to pull this off. Otherwise you get too much, or not enough of the hat, sticking up above the 4 1/2 inch front crease height.

But, great hat!! John outdid himself. Fedora

[generalFROSTY]

John is the master of disaster, the king of sting....
Fedora, do you have any plans on altering the shape of the Henry in the future? I ask because I want to know if the version I have is the 'end-all' of factory Raiders hats.
Knowing myself well enough tells me that if you released an updated version of the Henry, I would buy one!
----

[Mulceber]

Well I would assume it would be the end all, since iirc, Fedora and Marc believe the block used for the Henry to be the ORIGINAL Raiders block. Things could have changed though. -M

[Noah]

BEAUTIFUL hat Garrett! Looks perfect! I never heard of anyone asking to stitch the ribbon in that way. Thanks!

[Niob]

Congrats to that fantastic hat

[Mitch LaRue]

Garrett:
WELCOME!


Hat:
OUTSTANDING!


John:
KING!

[DR Ulloa]

Garrett:
WELCOME!


Hat:
OUTSTANDING!


John:
KING!

Greatest...post...ever...

Dave

[crismans]

Terrific looking hat! John is truly a master in the field.

And this further substantiates my belief that, while the assets of beaver can't be denied, rabbit is the way to go for a Raiders.

[Forrest For the Trees]

Any chance we can see that beauty of a hat on your noggin? I have a small head too, about 22 inches, and a true Indy hat looks a bit ridiculous on me. So, I'm curious to see this hat on your head.

Personally, if I wear anything with brim wider than 2 1/4 inches, it looks like a sombrero! Good thing for me that there are so many stingies out there...

[BendingOak]

Check out this thread. Garrett posted a pic of him wearing the hat.

http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f ... start=1400

[Forrest For the Trees]

Hey, thanks. Yeah, that looks good. While you may have a smaller head, you have a fuller face so you can pull off the wide brim on a hat like that. Me, well, I've got a skinny head, so no IJ fedora for me. My Federation hasn't left the closet in a long time. I wear my vintage Knox with a 1 7/8" brim most of the time...

[BendingOak]

What are the specs on your Fed?

[BendingOak]

John is the master of disaster, the king of sting....
Fedora, do you have any plans on altering the shape of the Henry in the future? I ask because I want to know if the version I have is the 'end-all' of factory Raiders hats.
Knowing myself well enough tells me that if you released an updated version of the Henry, I would buy one!
----

I would say most likely not. The block shape for the Henry is really good for that felt. Thats the thing, Every felt re-acts differently to a block shape. My new thing is to have a block set built for my rabbit felt and and another set for the beaver.

[Forrest For the Trees]

What are the specs on your Fed?

It's a Fed III deluxe, size 55. I trimmed the brim down to 2 1/2" on the sides, 2 3/4" front and back. The crown, unshaped, is 5 1/2" tall. The center dent didn't look right on me (too tall) so I have it shaped into a quasi-teardrop right now. The felt is feeling a bit weak from the pinch up front. It was Raiders, then went to an LC. I really don't wear it out ever anymore.

[jnicktem]

Dang it John!!! Now I want a Penman Rabbit Raiders!!!!! REEEEEAAAAALLLLLYYYYY BAAAAAAAAAAAAD!!!!

[BendingOak]

What are the specs on your Fed?

It's a Fed III deluxe, size 55. I trimmed the brim down to 2 1/2" on the sides, 2 3/4" front and back. The crown, unshaped, is 5 1/2" tall. The center dent didn't look right on me (too tall) so I have it shaped into a quasi-teardrop right now. The felt is feeling a bit weak from the pinch up front. It was Raiders, then went to an LC. I really don't wear it out ever anymore.

I had a customer who had a 20 1/2 inch head measurement. I made him a Raiders hat and it worked out well. He is a inch and a 1/4 smaller than what my ten year old is. This guys is thin and has a thin face. I wish I had photo's to show you. I agree that some look better in wide brim tall crowned hats and some look better in smaller crowns and brims. I have the proto-type watchmen hat and most think it doesn't look just right one me.

Can you post a shot with you wearing the fed. Maybe even with the center dent crease?

[BendingOak]

Dang it John!!! Now I want a Penman Rabbit Raiders!!!!! REEEEEAAAAALLLLLYYYYY BAAAAAAAAAAAAD!!!!

It's not like I go out of my way to do this to you buddy. Or do I.

[DarenHenryW]

Congratulations, Garrett! And welcome to COW!

Again, well done, John!

John and I spoke today on the phone, and we talked about this hat for awhile. All I can say is this: for anyone out there who does not already own a piece of John's fine work, you should.

I own two Penmans, and I got two more coming! Long live the Penman Hat Company! And long live John Penman!

DHW

[BendingOak]

Thanks Daren,

It's always good chatting with you. I think you and i could chat for hours.

[jnicktem]

John- it doesn't take much to have a great conversation with you! It's all a part of the great Penman customer service!!!!

[BendingOak]

John- it doesn't take much to have a great conversation with you! It's all a part of the great Penman customer service!!!!

This is the best part of making hats. I get to meat people and chat with them that I normally wouldn't.

[Fedora]

Well I would assume it would be the end all, since iirc, Fedora and Marc believe the block used for the Henry to be the ORIGINAL Raiders block. Things could have changed though. -M

I doubt we will change the block on the Henry. But, I don't feel it is the original Raiders block. Marc was going after the CS look when he got this hat made. But, it pulls off the Raiders look decently, though not perfectly. Marc chose this block because it would lend a CS, but also because it was used at one time for the HJs. Just not today. I still think the bespoke Raiders fedora was reblocked in the HJ shop, using a stock Poet. Mainly because I have not seen an HJ with the Raiders blockshape, but many with the TOD or TLC block.

Sorry for hijacking the Penman thread! Fedora

[BendingOak]

Well I would assume it would be the end all, since iirc, Fedora and Marc believe the block used for the Henry to be the ORIGINAL Raiders block. Things could have changed though. -M

I doubt we will change the block on the Henry. But, I don't feel it is the original Raiders block. Marc was going after the CS look when he got this hat made. But, it pulls off the Raiders look decently, though not perfectly. Marc chose this block because it would lend a CS, but also because it was used at one time for the HJs. Just not today. I still think the bespoke Raiders fedora was reblocked in the HJ shop, using a stock Poet. Mainly because I have not seen an HJ with the Raiders blockshape, but many with the TOD or TLC block.

Sorry for hijacking the Penman thread! Fedora

No worries Steve. You can jump in my threads anytime.

[Ohio Jones]

Nice work Oak...as always!

[hulkamad]

Hey Garrett, that is one amazing looking hat! Hats off to John on a superb creation. I'm jealous, I'm still waiting on my first custom Indy hat, I hope it looks just as good. You may recognize my username from another hat oriented forum... In fact, you've sold me a few of your hats, many of which I still have and continue to enjoy! Thanks again. oh, and if you ever need to sell this particular hat, there is someone here who is your size and would be happy to relieve you of it! lol

and welcome to COW! (that's what I get for staying up late...)

[DR Ulloa]

I think you mean COW...

Dave

[Garrett]

3 weeks after receiving this hat it has developed a wonderful mushroom/buckle effect -

[Mitch LaRue]

Man... that's a thing of beauty!

[bigrex]

Wow, nice pictures in your first post, my favorite yet of a Penman, really shows it off!