Just got my new Todd´s 8ft Whip!

[IndianaBravo]

Yeah, Neatsfoot isn´t really recommended except in minute doses. I used some on the thong to loosen it up. Remember that this leather is in need of conditioning and I used the oil, based on a tip given to me by a Master whipmaker. In the case of this particular fall, it was really dry and I felt it could really benefit from some neatsfoot and I gave it a good soaking. So far so good, and if anything goes wrong I´ll just replace the fall.
Cheers

[fuzzjunk]

Well I just ordered one!

Can anyone summarize what conditioners/pecards I should use on what part of the whip.

I know to use olive oil on the turks knots, but what would work best on the thong and fall? I know their are many opinions but am just looking for a general safe conditioner. I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to leather, but I'm learning fast.

Scott

[kwad]

What ever you do, don't use pure glycerin (I'm never doing that again!).

I find that good old pecards (the vaseline looking stuff in the tub) works on just about anything made out of leather without discoloring it.

The Todd's whip is VERY dry right out of the box. You may have to put several coats of Pecards on (a blow dryer on LOW heat will help it melt in, or if it is warm outside, let it sit in the sun for a while.)

WOW! I think it looks great! I hope you were happy with the Olive Oil idea

Raidersbash,

The olive oil worked great at first, but after a few days parts of the whip went back to the original color (unfurtunately, the dark spots from the glycerin did not )

I ended up using some Fiebings Med. Brown oil dye and went over the whole thing.
It's now a uniform color, but very dark and not very Indy looking
Oh well, I guess it just gives me an excuse to buy yet another whip

[IndianaBravo]

Hey Fuzzjunk!
As an all round conditioner Pecard would be the way to go. I suggest you read this thread in its entirety and soak up some of the info. Most of us are just puttering around here and having a bit of fun and coming up with passable results.
"I´m making this up as I go along!"

IndianaBravo

[RaidersBash]

What ever you do, don't use pure glycerin (I'm never doing that again!).

I find that good old pecards (the vaseline looking stuff in the tub) works on just about anything made out of leather without discoloring it.

The Todd's whip is VERY dry right out of the box. You may have to put several coats of Pecards on (a blow dryer on LOW heat will help it melt in, or if it is warm outside, let it sit in the sun for a while.)

WOW! I think it looks great! I hope you were happy with the Olive Oil idea

Raidersbash,

The olive oil worked great at first, but after a few days parts of the whip went back to the original color (unfurtunately, the dark spots from the glycerin did not )

I ended up using some Fiebings Med. Brown oil dye and went over the whole thing.
It's now a uniform color, but very dark and not very Indy looking
Oh well, I guess it just gives me an excuse to buy yet another whip

I'm not sure how much olive oil you used, but mine has stayed darkened. It probably doesn't hurt to give follow up treatments, but it will get to a spot where it will maintain the color without any further help. too late now since you died the entire thing, but for others who are considering using olive oil...IT WILL WORK for darkening and conditioning leather.

Don't believe me though, do a quickie internet search, read what others have to say and form your own opinion.

[fuzzjunk]

I have this type of leather lotion on hand: http://www.shoetreemarketplace.com/Prod ... ode=143000

Will this work just as good?

[Dr._J]

Fellas,

Remember that Pecards makes a brown leather dressing. It's basically standard Pecards with brown dye added. It works wonders; conditioning your whip while adding a nice, even, golden-brown color. Obviously, don't use it on the fall. I used it on my Todd's 8-footer and it looks great!

Regards, Dr. J

[fuzzjunk]

Fellas,

Remember that Pecards makes a brown leather dressing. It's basically standard Pecards with brown dye added. It works wonders; conditioning your whip while adding a nice, even, golden-brown color. Obviously, don't use it on the fall. I used it on my Todd's 8-footer and it looks great!

Regards, Dr. J

Would you have any pics of that, I would like to see the results.

Scott

[kwad]

I'm not sure how much olive oil you used, but mine has stayed darkened. It probably doesn't hurt to give follow up treatments, but it will get to a spot where it will maintain the color without any further help. too late now since you died the entire thing, but for others who are considering using olive oil...IT WILL WORK for darkening and conditioning leather.

Don't believe me though, do a quickie internet search, read what others have to say and form your own opinion.

RaidersBash,

I'm not trying to "Bash" your olive oil trick (sorry, bad pun )
In actuality, it worked great on the areas not affected by the Glycerin (still kicking myself over that one).

I think the problem was the glycerin I originally used was not allowing it to soak in at some areas (the light spots would appear right next to the dark spots caused by the glycerin).
I liberally reapplied the olive oil, but, by the next day the same spots would be stark white again. After almost a week of reapplying, I gave up and used the dye (I even had trouble getting the dye to absorb into those light spots).

It's now a very dark brown with a hint of red (in natural sunlight, it kinka looks like a very dark whiskey color) When I get some new batteries for my camera, I'll try to take a few shots of it in the sunlight.

[Dr._J]

Fellas,

Remember that Pecards makes a brown leather dressing. It's basically standard Pecards with brown dye added. It works wonders; conditioning your whip while adding a nice, even, golden-brown color. Obviously, don't use it on the fall. I used it on my Todd's 8-footer and it looks great!

Regards, Dr. J

Would you have any pics of that, I would like to see the results.

Scott

I'll see what I can do.

[blueoakleyz]

Very disappointed.. I just bought one a few months ago. Or one of the prop ones
I still can't put it back together yet either.

Hi blueoakleyz.

What do you mean by "can't put it back together yet" maybe I can help?? Whats wrong my friend?
Graeme

Well a couple months ago the fall+cracker was broken and damaged off.. So I removed it completely so I could put it back on. I think that's what happened (I already forgot) and I unbraided part of the end of the main whip. So I'm left with like half a foot of unbraided threads. Like 6 of them. I have no idea how to braid them back together

[IndianaBravo]

Hey blueoakleyz, I would direct you to this thread, but I assume you´ve read it sinci it´s actually yours!

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=43794

The prospect of having to rebraid even a small part of a whip can certainly seem daunting ( it scares the willies outta me!) If it were a higher quality whip, I guess you could consider sending it to the maker or any other leather craftsman in your area that you might know of and have them do it. Considering the price you paid for the whip it probably wouldn´t be worth it with the shipping costs, etc... If I were you I´d try to follow those diagrams from the above thread the best I could. If the whip is just for show /display, then just tie up the ends as best you can and wear it on your belt or hang it on the wall.
Cheers!

IndianaBravo

[G-Roberts]

Very disappointed.. I just bought one a few months ago. Or one of the prop ones
I still can't put it back together yet either.

Hi blueoakleyz.

What do you mean by "can't put it back together yet" maybe I can help?? Whats wrong my friend?
Graeme

Well a couple months ago the fall+cracker was broken and damaged off.. So I removed it completely so I could put it back on. I think that's what happened (I already forgot) and I unbraided part of the end of the main whip. So I'm left with like half a foot of unbraided threads. Like 6 of them. I have no idea how to braid them back together

Use this link and have a go at putting the fall back on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhjFBBz2 ... re=related
Graeme

[fuzzjunk]

Can anyone tell me if this leather lotion will be safe on Todd's whip?

http://www.shoetreemarketplace.com/Prod ... ode=143000

It should be in today or tomorrow and I just want to start conditioning it right away.

-Scott

[RaidersBash]

the link isn't working...

[fuzzjunk]

I have this type of leather lotion on hand: http://www.shoetreemarketplace.com/Prod ... ode=143000

Will this work just as good?

For some reason it wouldn't copy and paste, this should work.

[RaidersBash]

I've never used it, but I think it should work fine. If it's good for any leather, that means it won't darken the color of the whip. You'll have to apply many many coats, but lotion works good, and a lotion specific for leather should be even better. I'd like to see an ingredient list, but i've noticed a lot of leather care products are absent of their ingredient list like it's a trade secret or something...

i think i've seen that at my local walmart or someplace. next time i see it again i'll make it a point to pick some up and try it out.

[fuzzjunk]

I thought it should do the trick. I did pick it up at Walmart and I used it on my Todd's bag strap and belt and it work great. Thanks for the reassurance.

Scott

[fuzzjunk]

Well it came in today! I just gave it a good conditioning with the leather lotion, and I'll probably do another coat tonight.

Should I do the knots with olive oil after the 2nd conditioning?

[RaidersBash]

there's no need to do the knots with the conditioner until you're sure you have the color as dark as you want...the conditioner will act as a sealer, making it harder to darken.

since the knots don't move as a function of cracking the whip...putting a conditioner on can really wait until you have the color and it's set...and that might take a couple days, since some of the guys have said that as the olive oil soaks deeper into the leather it seems to lighten on the surface. i haven't experienced this on mine (beyond the obvious that when it first goes on it's wet and looks very dark like any liquid would, but as it dries it appears lighter than when it was wet), but repeated applications will ensure it stays the color you want...

slow and steady and save sealing the knots with any conditioner until the end would be my advice...

[fuzzjunk]

Fresh out of the package!!!


I am very pleased, it is a bit dry and bit on the light side as mention above, but looks to be well made.
I just gave it a second conditioning and I will let that sit over night, and tomorrow I'll add some olive oil!

Thanks for the input radersbash

-Scott

[RaidersBash]

I know to use olive oil on the turks knots, but what would work best on the thong and fall?

Scott

i absolutely would use olive oil on the fall if you weren't concerned about it darkening. Olive Oil does a great job at softening leather. I've done a lot of headstalls that were so stiff I could never get them buckled or unbuckled, but in the end become soft like they should be...a leather belt that was the same. aside from sometimes drawback of the color change, it really does wonders to soften leather, so I'm sure the fall would respond positively, but wouldn't look SA after...

[BullWhipBorton]

I’ve had a couple members ask privately if I could comment on this thread and share my thoughts on the use of products like neats-foot oil and olive oil on leather whips so here goes…

While long term care of leather whips with products like neat’s-foot oil is typically a bad thing, In this case the idea here was to use it to help lubricate very dry leather quickly and let it make a way into deeply into the core of the whip. Then follow up with treatments of Pecards leather dressing, or an equivalent. This would help to stabilize the leather and ward off some of the the less desirable effects of the neat’s-foot oil.

Products like Mink oil, Neat’s-foot oil, or other liquid oils while having their place in leather care, are not typically recommended for use on leather whips. Yes, it will temporarily add weight if that is what you are looking for, but when applied these oils can easily over saturate leather and cause the leather fibers to swell and loosen, weakening it in a similar way that water can. If not careful you end up with weak soggy, oily leather. Because these oils are liquid based they evaporate out faster with use. In order to keep the leather from drying out then you would need more frequent reapplications which again can result in additional over saturation as well as a build of some of the more harsh additives used in these products that remain as the liquids evaporate away.

Olive oil, while a popular old school leather treatment is generally thought to do more long term harm then good by today’s professional leather workers. The consensus being with olive oil is that while it works well to soften and darken leather, it also helps to wear at and break down the fibers of the leather (The reason it is so good at making leather supple and soft). It should only be used sparingly as heaver applications over time can cause the leather to stretch and wear unnaturally. Another valid concern with Olive oil is that with exposure to cretin types of conditions and elements such as heat and humidity the remaining olive oil in your whip has the potential to become rancid and develop an offensive odor.

Using any of these types of liquid oils to treat the plaited handles and or knots on a whip is also a gamble. These areas are plaited and tied tightly for a reason and despite the fact that these are budget whips, you want to keep these areas on your whip tight and secure. Using heavy or frequent applications of oils on these areas, even recommended leather dressings can potentially cause slipping and shifting of the handle overlay and cause the knots start to come loose over time.

Leather whips (especially those being used frequently) are subject to much more stress from flexing and wear then items like saddles, tack or jackets, etc, they require different care to keep them long lasting and in good working condition. So keep in mind the methods discussed here in this thread are the extreme. While I personally would not recommend them, nor would I use them on one of Todds whips; here they are being done to 1. Help to try to improve a relatively inexpensive budget bullwhip. 2. To quickly enhance and modify the look of these whips so they appear more closely to the bullwhips seen in the films. The general rule though is going to be, do your homework first before trying any type of extreme or experimental leather care / treatment ideas like these. Of course these are your whips, and you can treat it as you wish, but think about it and if you do decide to proceed then proceed with some caution.

Sometimes these extreme methods can be helpful, but sometimes they will do more harm then good. So understand that they do have the potential to cause damage to the leather item you are trying to treat if your not careful. Lastly it should go with out saying that these methods should not be used on high quality leather whips. If you consider doing so, it is something you do at your own risk.

Dan

[Puppetboy]

Very sound advice. I am watching this thread with interest to find out what you'all find regarding leather dressings for these.

I would add that these are inexpensive, so the goal that most of you have in mind is to find a quick way to improve performance and improve appearance. I don't know how many of you are planning to be cracking this whip 20 years from now. I don't know how long liquid oils take to damage a piece of leather. From what Dan is saying, the detrimental effect is from repeated, long term use.

If your goal is darkening, the sun and age will do that for you.

I'm totally guessing here, but perhaps the best course of treatment would be an initial application of liquid oil for deep penetration. Eventually, it will soak through the whip and dry out, leaving some lubrication behind. After that, regular treatments with a gel-type or paste type conditioner would be in order.

After all, if the concern is the long term effect of soaking the leather to the point of dissolving it, then I don't know if a one-time treatment with an oil will do any harm. Think about it - the fibers are dry, the oil soaks into them, making them expand (as they once were), the liquid part evaporates, the fibers contract again, with only the solids of the oil left behind. Am I way off here? I'm just guessing wildly at things I know nothing about. The equivalent of the incoherent ravings of a lunatic. Even worse, I'm engaging in pseudo-science, and we all know how evil that is.

[hollywood1340]

If your goal is darkening, the sun and age will do that for you.

This I feel cannot be overstated!

[IndianaBravo]

Puppetboy said:
"I'm totally guessing here, but perhaps the best course of treatment would be an initial application of liquid oil for deep penetration. Eventually, it will soak through the whip and dry out, leaving some lubrication behind. After that, regular treatments with a gel-type or paste type conditioner would be in order."


Good to see you here Todd! Congrats on your new whip Scott! This is exactly what I have been doing and the results have been very positive so far. Just a light application of the neatsfoot and then Pecard and sunlight. Soaking the fall in neatsfoot and later applying dubbin/Pecard also seems to have worked well. It is now very supple and the cracker stays on well. As I said, the fall is easily replaceable if you blow it. This has really been fun. The whip surpassed my expectations, and its great to be able to learn more about whips and get to tinker with them at them at same time.

Todd, let us know when those new and improved models are available!
Thwak!
IndianaBravo

[generalFROSTY]

When I get around to getting a 10-footer from Todd, I was thinking of hitting it first with Pecards, let that set and see where the color stands from there, then fallow up with the olive oil to darken the knot.
I won't be out in the sun with this thing much at all, so 'artificial' coloring is the option I am going with. My whip will be used primarily for display and gear-wear 99.9% of the time, so performance use of the whip is limited to the few times I will be 'cracking' it.
When I get my whip, I will contact someone here who has had success in coloring and conditioning one of Todd's whips, and fallow thier suggestions one what course to take, taking photographs of each step and posting them in a thread here to illustrate to anyone who has yet to buy a Todd's whip how well the process works.
(Raidersbash I'm counting on you buddy)

[Dr._J]

Fellas,

Sure, you could leave your whips in the sun for days and days. You could also let it darken naturally through many years and much use. OR you could use Pecard's Leather Dressing in Brown. For $6 at the Pecard site your whip can be darkened AND conditioned all in the same application. Basically, it's just standard Pecards (HIGHLY recommended by Sergei whom this section of the forum is named after AND David Morgan himself) with brown dye added to the formula. Works wonders! I heavily endorse this product based on many years of use. It's never let me down! Here's my Todd's 8-footer on day one after two applications of Pecards Brown!




Here's a link to David Morgan's website with some useful information pertaining to leather care.

http://www.davidmorgan.com/leathercare. ... rd&sort=2a&

Regards, Dr. J

[IndianaBravo]

Not a bad idea, if you want instant results. I personally think this is akin to a spray-on tan!

[Solojedi]

Hey guys
I like what you guys have done to "improve" the whip. Todds' stuff is great anyway......

I wanted to know if it would be possible to post pictures of the "rolling" procedure you mention, the one between two boards. Some of us are more "visual" learners so it would definitely help to be able to see it.

And, are there any updated pictures from any of you as to how your whip looks now...

Solo

[IndianaBravo]

Gawrsh!
I sure could´ve used a video of the rolling technique myself, because honestly I don´t know how well/badly I did it. I just sorta got my 2 by 4, wrapped it in a soft cloth and then on my knees with a clean board on the floor proceeded to roll it the best I could. It seems to have worked OK. I really wish I had some sort of workshop area but I dont. I have since discarded the 2 by 4 and the board I used. I had to get them from a construction site. That stuff is hard to come by in an urban European enviroment. If anybody else has a rolling techinique video I´d love to see it too.
Cheers!

[Solojedi]

Hey guys -
just checking to see if there were any updates of pictures of progress on tweaking this whip...
I'm so close to pulling trigger on this one just wating on uncle sam

Thanks

[IndianaBravo]

Hey Solojedi

Really no updates as far as pics are concerned, lotsa rain lately so whips stay indoors. I keep checking Todd´s website to see if the new and improved batch is in, but nothing so far. In any case, I´m "wrapped up" now in my new Midlands whip! See "another raiders whip" thread for more.
Hope your bux from Uncle Sam come in soon.

Regards
IndianaBravo

[indyclone]

well im thinking of ordering the 8ft whip sometime next week , i too have bought from wal-mart the kiwi leather lotion for my other whip that i bought from ebay and it conditioned and kept my whip nice and smooth , i will most likely use this lotion on the todds whip , i have been very pleased with all my todds purchases and have no worries with what the product will look like , after seeing the photos from the others on here. i think darkening the whip i will let time take it to the darker stage , i mean it will eventually happen so why rush it .

[afterthedog]

Very disappointed.. I just bought one a few months ago. Or one of the prop ones
I still can't put it back together yet either.

Hi blueoakleyz.

What do you mean by "can't put it back together yet" maybe I can help?? Whats wrong my friend?
Graeme

Well a couple months ago the fall+cracker was broken and damaged off.. So I removed it completely so I could put it back on. I think that's what happened (I already forgot) and I unbraided part of the end of the main whip. So I'm left with like half a foot of unbraided threads. Like 6 of them. I have no idea how to braid them back together

Use this link and have a go at putting the fall back on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhjFBBz2 ... re=related
Graeme

Wow! I'm glad someone knew about this video. I got a 10' whip from Todd's for Christmas and couldn't resist cracking it. After a few cracks the end of the fall BROKE! I shrugged it off at the time and just tied the cracker back on - no problem... until it broke again. I tied it back on again and put the whip away in my closet for the rest of the winter. I took it out again yesterday and was cracking it again when the fall broke AGAIN, this time right at the end of the braid. For the life of me I couldn't figure out how to braid it back together. I have an e-mail in to Todd to see if there's anything he can do, but if he can't, I'm going to try this.

[kwad]

Hmmmm ,

I've had pretty good luck with the fall on my Todds (and to my neighbors delight, I crack it for about a half hour every other night. Hey, no one's complained yet!! )
I've put alot of mileage on it since I bought it and only once have I had a piece break off (but I would consider where it broke to be regular wear and tear).

Afterthedog, did you use any type of conditioner on the fall before using it?

Mine was pretty dry when I got it, but after slathering the fall in pecards, it softened right up. I usually use pecards on my fall about once a week, just to keep it going.

[afterthedog]

Hmmmm ,

I've had pretty good luck with the fall on my Todds (and to my neighbors delight, I crack it for about a half hour every other night. Hey, no one's complained yet!! )
I've put alot of mileage on it since I bought it and only once have I had a piece break off (but I would consider where it broke to be regular wear and tear).

Afterthedog, did you use any type of conditioner on the fall before using it?

Mine was pretty dry when I got it, but after slathering the fall in pecards, it softened right up. I usually use pecards on my fall about once a week, just to keep it going.

No, like a dope I didn't even think about conditioning. The thing looked so awesome to me that I just took it for granted that it was good to go. Now that I've been reading up on whip care from all of you here, I know better and hopefully won't have this problem again.
By the way, I got a response from Todd's right away and they have offered to replace the whip.

[kwad]

Good to hear that Todd is gonna replace the whip for you.

Just make sure to really condition that fall (and the rest of it) before giving the new one a workout.

[BaptisteTheFool]

Been considering one of Todd's whips. Was ready to order now that my paycheck has come in, but he no longer has them on his site. Anyone know what the deal is?


Ah, never mind, he just moved them off the main page to a sub-page. All is good and right in the world.


So just to be clear, these "prop whips" are the ones he mentioned elsewhere as being good cracking whips (for the price), with a full leather interior, correct?


And how much Pecards would I need to order to treat this thing before cracking it?

[hollywood1340]

I know someone here on the board who owns a four foot version of this whip and he enjoys it immensely. So yes it cracks and for a first whip I can't see how you could go wrong for an Indy style whip. I will say at this price point for general cracking, I'd say go with a good nylon whip.

[BaptisteTheFool]

I know someone here on the board who owns a four foot version of this whip and he enjoys it immensely. So yes it cracks and for a first whip I can't see how you could go wrong for an Indy style whip. I will say at this price point for general cracking, I'd say go with a good nylon whip.

Well, I want something I can do some casual cracking with. Just learning. But more than that, I think I want a costume piece, so no nylon.

[Puppetboy]

The 8 footers are the cracking ones. They also come with a little jar of Pecard's. It's enough to do the whip about two-three times.

[BaptisteTheFool]

The 8 footers are the cracking ones. They also come with a little jar of Pecard's. It's enough to do the whip about two-three times.

Excellent! Expect my order within the next few days. Thanks Todd!

[hollywood1340]

Well, I want something I can do some casual cracking with. Just learning. But more than that, I think I want a costume piece, so no nylon.

Beware it's a sickness. Soon you will want more. And more. And then the price of all the whips you have exceed that of your car. And you wake up one morning with a grin on your face wondering how you got here.

[Indiana County Jr.]

Plus, as an added bonus, we have support groups here to further develop your sickness! I happen to be a terminal case of "add-a-whip-to-me"

Crack On!
Allen

[indyclone]

The 8 footers are the cracking ones. They also come with a little jar of Pecard's. It's enough to do the whip about two-three times.

thats good to know that it comes with pecards, i will be buying one soon too

[kwad]

I just came back inside from cracking my 8' Todd's.
I have been giving this whip one heck of a workout lately and it has taken everything I have thrown at it.
It is nice and broke in now, and handles like a champ.

I say if you are low on cash and need a whip that you can actually use, get a Todd's.

[generalFROSTY]

It's great the the 8-footers can crack but for me, the 10 footer looks better on display and costume wear - which is what it will be used for 99.99% of the time so I gotta go for what suits my needs. I'm just glad there are options out there...

[indyclone]

well i just ordered the 8ft whip from todds , from all the people on here , i think it is the best to get especially for my indy gear, as said before i guess the whip come with some pecards? i also have kiwi leather lotion , which i will use to i think i will use the pecards on the fall , mostly to keep it nice and crackable , so it doesnt break off , and the kiwi for the whip itself , so i should have it by friday , can't wait to have a whip more screen accurate than the jrzjoes whip i have now , not saying that that is a bad whip but it just doesnt have the pliats like the todds has .

[indyclone]

received my whip today and it looks awesome , now i have to add some leather lotion to get to good cracking condition .