The Formula of the Turn

[BendingOak]

It's different from label to label. I pattern mine after Steve Delk and he patterned his from a HJ from swales.

[VP]

http://indygear.com/igfedora.html

[BendingOak]

http://indygear.com/igfedora.html

and your point sir?

[VP]

Brim (front & back): 2 ¾ (2.75) inches
Brim (sides): 2 5/8 (2.625) inches

[rover smith]

Brim (front & back): 2 ¾ (2.75) inches
Brim (sides): 2 5/8 (2.625) inches

I'm not following either VP?

[BendingOak]

I think he is saying that 2 3/4 x 2 5/8 would be the brim specs but thats off. It would be a 1/4 inch difference and every size and person shape would change them to get it correct. One size doesn't fit all.

[VP]

The difference is ⅛ to be exact. That's what the main site states for the HJ's and it can be a basis for the calculations.

[BendingOak]

The difference is ⅛ to be exact. That's what the main site states for the HJ's and it can be a basis for the calculations.

I'm sorry but the Hj that Steve got that swales cut himself is a 1/4 inch if I'm not mistaken.

[VP]

Then the main site is mistaken and should be corrected.

[Digger4Glory]

Then the main site is mistaken and should be corrected.

Thanks VP for bringing these specs up and I agree the main site may or may not need to be updated. Here is the total specs they post at the top next to the Raiders picture. Which leads you to think these were the specs for that specific film.

The specifications for the actual hat Ford wore are reportedly as follows:
Size: 7 ¼ (size 58 European)
Crown: 5 ½ (5.5) inches
Brim (front & back): 2 ¾ (2.75) inches
Brim (sides): 2 5/8 (2.625) inches
Ribbon: 1 ½ (1.5) inches (39mm)

[BendingOak]

I just checked my e-mails from steve and it's a 1/4 inch. Maybe the main site posting is a oversight.

[Michaelson]

The main site brim spec information is a direct quote from Richard Swales, and documented in both interview and letters from HJ.

That's not saying it's right or wrong....it's just repeating what the Swales himself said he used as a standard trim size.

As everyone knows, every hat seemed to be different and based entirely on how steady his hand was with his sissors from one hat to the next, but those specs were his benchmark.

Regards! Michaelson

[BendingOak]

The one I had was 1/4 inch. I didn't know I could have that much wiggle room.

[Digger4Glory]

The main site brim spec information is a direct quote from Richard Swales, and documented in both interview and letters from HJ.

That's not saying it's right or wrong....it's just repeating what the Swales himself said he used as a standard trim size.

As everyone knows, every hat seemed to be different and based entirely on how steady his hand was with his sissors from one hat to the next, but those specs were his benchmark.

Regards! Michaelson

That's a very good point. The specs could have been the "target" but then handtrimming is a variable.

[darth_ming]

Wow!!! what a mess you are making with your very inacurate measurement system.
I think two things is making a real ugly noise here:

1st: the us and uk measurement system (inches and the rest)

2nd: the fact that all the hats made for the movies was fitted by hand for the artisans to fit in the Mr Ford head. This is like comparing a taylor made suit against a pret a porter suit. I think is impossible to obtain a good turn if your head is not involved on it. In my case I had the luck to be present in the process of making the hat so I could obtain the turn apropriate for the shape of my head.

Metric System rules!!!!!!

Hahahahaha

[Digger4Glory]

It's time to keep this ship on course. The question is....
Is there a formula for the Raiders Turn?
This is not a debate over which unit of measure is better.
This thread targets the Raiders fedora worn by Ford with a turn.

The purpose of this thread is to achieve the look of a Raiders turn for everyone. Many factors have been discussed and the key factor so far is head shape. We need to ask this though...

Is it possible for every shape of head to achieve the look? What if my head is perfectly round or a long oval type? Will the turn ever look right on me if I fall into either extreme?

[BendingOak]

I would say yes that every shape can get the turn but you might have to go to do more to get it. Example. If you have a round oval head or might have to turn the hat much more to get the turn that you ribbon is way out of wack. Then You might have to have the hat turn then have the ribbon sewn on.

[Digger4Glory]

I would say yes that every shape can get the turn but you might have to go to do more to get it. Example. If you have a round oval head or might have to turn the hat much more to get the turn that you ribbon is way out of wack. Then You might have to have the hat turn then have the ribbon sewn on.

So, a round head means you need more of an offset to achieve the turn plus and adjusted ribbon. Otherwise the bow would be too much towards the front.

Then would a long oval need less of an offset to acheive the turn and pehaps no adjustment to the placing of the ribbon?

[BendingOak]

I would say yes that every shape can get the turn but you might have to go to do more to get it. Example. If you have a round oval head or might have to turn the hat much more to get the turn that you ribbon is way out of wack. Then You might have to have the hat turn then have the ribbon sewn on.

So, a round head means you need more of an offset to achieve the turn plus and adjusted ribbon. Otherwise the bow would be too much towards the front.

Then would a long oval need less of an offset to acheive the turn and pehaps no adjustment to the placing of the ribbon?

For the most part I would say yes.

[darth_ming]

Hahahaha, you right, sorry for the off topic.

And, the experts had said... the shape of the head is one of the keys.
To obtain the correct turn you definitively NEED to do it with the hat in your head, at least that's the way I saw it.

So finally due this is a handcraft work, there is no exact formula to do it.

[Long John Tinfoil]

If someone has the "round" head, would it make sense to hold off on putting the dimensional cut on the brim until the turn is established? If you have to turn it so far that the ribbon needs to be shifted and re-sewn, it seems to me that the dimensional cut would put the long dimensions of the brim sort of cornerwise on your head if done in advance.

LJ

[Digger4Glory]

If someone has the "round" head, would it make sense to hold off on putting the dimensional cut on the brim until the turn is established? If you have to turn it so far that the ribbon needs to be shifted and re-sewn, it seems to me that the dimensional cut would put the long dimensions of the brim sort of cornerwise on your head if done in advance.

LJ

I think this would have to be a consideration if you have a round head. Moving the ribbon, or rebashing is one thing, but I dont know what much can be done after a hat is already trimmed. I think John's suggestion of shipping out the hat so the customer can turn it, mark and ship it back to John for the rest is essential here.

Good point!

[BendingOak]

All depends on how much of the hat is going to be turned. I had someone who was going to buy a hat where I was going to temp stitch a sweatband into a body and send it to the person to try this because he stated he would need to have turn at a turn of 45 degrees. Then send it back for me to finish the hat. Never got around to doing this because he backed out. Would love to have given that a try.

[Digger4Glory]

All depends on how much of the hat is going to be turned. I had someone who was going to buy a hat where I was going to temp stitch a sweatband into a body and send it to the person to try this because he stated he would need to have turn at a turn of 45 degrees. Then send it back for me to finish the hat. Never got around to doing this because he backed out. Would love to have given that a try.

Wow, 45 degrees, now that's a turn! Talk about taking a hard right.. If you ever do have to turn a hat like that definately try to get some pics up of that. It would be very helpful, and thanks for all your input thus far!! Your the best!

[BendingOak]

I would have loved to see the end results. The process would have taking a lot of steps just to find out where his front of the nat would be. Cut the brim down and then have a 1/4 inch turn added.

[Indiana Bugs]

I went through this with my Fed III recently.

I had decided I wanted to try to turn one of my hats and I was mutchering with my Fed III after I reblocked it in reverse. I had written about it in another thread and John told me to turn it more than I already had.

So I turned it further until the brim did a wonky SoC thing, and, looking at it from the top, the hat was about 30 degrees off-center. I thought this was a bit much but the center of the bow ended up being above my side burn, right where it is on an HF turned hat.



So, I can say that 30 degrees, give or take a few degrees, is the average amount of turn required for a Raideresque turn. Or, I could say that the number means less than just putting the hat on your head and turning it until it looks the way you want it to. Then you need to recrease the hat so the pinch is recentered to your nose.