Vintage HJ on ebay

[DR Ulloa]

I picked up this vintage HJ last night on ebay for $150. I figured, for that price, I can't go wrong. Its grey and it has a roan sweatband with a clover bow on the sweat similar to the Knox and Dobbs bows back in the 50's. It has the blue crest on the liner just like the Raiders fedora is rumored to have had. Hopefully it will be what it looks like when I get it. Sorry for the link, but I'm on my Palm and it will take forever to load the full ebay page.

m.ebay.com/Member/F/ViewItem.aspx?aid=220546523175&emvcc=0

Dave

[Tremolo]

Congrats Dave!
I´m looking forward to see how it looks when you get it and gave it better crease.

[Indiana Jeff]

Nice find, Dave. But the ebay listing has the color as brown...

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

[Fedora]

Great find! Fedora

[DR Ulloa]

This is definately a grey hat. I thought it said grey in the listing too. I know that same guy also has a brown HJ, same vintage, up right now but it was a sie too small for me.

Steve, you've dealt with a lot of HJs from various decades. Can you guess when about this hat was made by those pictures?

Dave

[WalkingEye]

Hey Dave, i just bought the brown one! thanks for the heads up! i think i can work out some of the taper (even if i have to reblock her) and make a very nice indy lid.

i found some info, on the fedora lounge (some of the posts are even by Fedora), that seems to indicate that the blue labelled HJ's are from the pre '79 era.


-Rich.

[DR Ulloa]

Sweetness! Glad to help you out there, Rich. I would have taken the brown one too but he stated it fit like a 7 3/8 which may be too small for me depending on the hat so I was trepaditious about buying it. If these are pre-'79, that means this is probably the same felt used for the Raiders hat, which is why I bought this in the first place. I am really excited to get this hat and see the felt and am as excited to see your brown one! Let's hope these are as good as they look...

Dave

[Erri]

I wouldn't be so sure about the felt, they came in all sort of qualities. Back then they had many more models than now and many different qualities of felt. I've had a couple of pre-80's HJ hats and they weren't the same, one was soft and light with a lightweight sweatband, another was much tougher, thicker sweatband (same as on this on ebay), a completely different beast.

I love the colour of this one and I'm envious, I didn't buy it myself because I didn't like the idea of spending $150, with these vintage HJs is always very hard to get what you expect. Most commonly are very tapered and with a 4 1/2 or 5" crown.
Nonetheless I wish you good luck and can't wait to see more pictures. Even if it won't be a possible Indy hat you still got a great hat in a lovely colour.

[DR Ulloa]

Well I guess its a good thing I wasn't interested in making this an Indy hat, then . I have my Penman and AB for that. I was just interested in the felt. Hopefully this will be good felt. If it is tapered, its nothing a six point crease won't fix. Its all about the top crease. That said, I don't think this has a low crown. It looks like it has a 1 1/2" ribbon, maybe 2", on it and there is quite a bit of distance between the top of the ribbon and the top of the crown. I'm excited to see this too. Worst case scenario: I end up with another hat to experiment on.

Dave

[Erri]

It would be nice to see it next to a grey Penman and a grey AB hat. If you have any of the two please post some pictures side by side with the incoming hat when it arrives.
Cheers

by the way, direct link to the auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0546523175

[DR Ulloa]

Thanks for posting the full auction page there Erri. I do have a grey Penman, two actually, but neither are his Indy, or granite, grey. One is charcoal grey and the other is steel grey. I had a grey AB on order but changed it to something non-Indy in sahara. So, I'm not sure how much a comparison might help if you are looking to compare color here. I will, however post a comparison if you'd like. And, if I see any sort of similarities, I'll post a comparison between this HJ and my Raiders Penman. That is, as far as block shapes go.

Dave

[jnicktem]

Just send it to me Dave and I can compare it with my Penman Raiders grey!

[Erri]

Dying to see it. I also have a grey HJ and I'm curious to see if it's the same kind of grey. Back then Herbert Johnson had at least 2 different greys but I'm sure that before 1980 they had even more tone variations.

[DR Ulloa]

Nick, this hat won't fit on your giamt cranium...you can't have it!

Dave

[jnicktem]

I will MAKE it fit!

[Erri]

Is that 7 1/2 UK or USA sizing?

[DR Ulloa]

I hope its US sizing, otherwise, that baby will sit real tight on my head.

Edit: Just looked at hat sizes and UK sizing is one UP from US sizing which means if this is a 7 1/2 UK, it may be slightly too big, if the sweat has not shrunk. This is much more agreeable with me than if the hat were too small. So, If this thing does fit me too big, I think I'll send it off to John and have him make me a proper grey Raiders hat out of it and using the same sweat (you can cut down a sweat that is too big, right?) and liner as they appear to be in like new condition. I hope it fits right though as I would like this to stay true vintage, block shape and all...unless it is too tapered

And Nick...Holt may not need any guard dogs due to his general BA-ness, but I have three and you'll need to get by all three of them to get near my hat collection...even the Chihuahua ! But, I don't have the hat yet and haven't received confirmation that it has shipped so any attempt to re-appropriate my topper will be futile...unless you want one of my other hats in which case, Smithers, release the hounds.

Dave

[Erri]

Yes if you give it to a hatter he can cut down the sweatband and reduce to your size no problem. It would also help to reverse some taper if there is any... so if it's bigger it's actually an advantage for you

[DR Ulloa]

Well, I'm hoping I won't have to do that but at least there is that option. Like I said before, I want to keep this hat as original as possible. But if I have to have this hat sized down, I know who I'll be sending it to. John, that block you made my steel grey hat on...thats not one of the ones that broke is it? Because if I need to reblock this baby, I want it done on that block and maybe give it a Raiders sttle crease, but not so tight a pinch. I guess a CS pinch then.

Dave

[Erri]

If it's VERY tapered why not, give it a reblock. If it's not too bad I would suggest to preserve the original crown shape. Just my humble opinion

[DR Ulloa]

Oh yeah! If this thing has a lot of taper, I WILL have it reblocked. I'm all for keeping a vintage hat original, but a tapered hat does not look good on me. I would never wear it if this is too tapered. And I plan on wearing this hat.

Dave

[DR Ulloa]

I heard back from the seller. He said he shipped the hat out today so that means I should get it some time next week. Rich, your hat was probably sent out too. I don't know why he would go to the Post Office and not send out your hat while he was at it. Make sure to post pics here once you get it and a quick rundown of what it is you have.

Dave

[WalkingEye]

Will do.

[DR Ulloa]

Ok, there is good news, great news, and bad news. The good news, I got the hat today. The great news, this felt is very similar to the Raiders felt. In fact when I popped out the crease, I could clearly see the felt bulging out over the ribbon on the right side opposite the bow. Once the creases were popped out, I also noticed it has a beautiful block shape and it makes for a good Raiders hat. The bad news is that the hat is a tad too big and the stitching of the sweat to the reed is coming undone. Its not too bad but I will probably have to fix that by hand as no hatter will work on that. After I fix the sweat/reed stitching, I'll try the lampshade trick and if not its off to John, whom I've already spoken with about reblocking this hat. All in all, I'm very happy. The bad can be fixed and it will be soon. Pics will follow soon.

Dave

[Erri]

If it's a great blockshape, I dare ask... why considering a reblock? Just ask John to fix the sweatband and make it slightly smaller to fit your head. Don't touch the crown shape if it's a good block shape because those are... "no more" and by all means need to be preserved, at least that's my opinion. However the hat is yours and you may do as you wish of course

And by the way ;0

[DR Ulloa]

Honestly, I don't want to change the block, but sizing the hat down does require it to be reblocked.

Dave

[Erri]

is it really much bigger? One size down might not require it. More than that yes it would require a reblock (if you REALLY don't want to keep it like that).
And where are pictures? We want to see at least a dozen! (seriously!)

[jnicktem]

Dave- if it is a lot bigger... say around a size 7 3/4, I might have an idea for what you can do with it....

[WalkingEye]

My hat just arrived! and it's HUGE! it sinks over my ears. my guess is it's somewhere between a 7 1/2 and a 7 3/4, where my head is around the 7 1/4ish range. Now this is not a problem what so ever though, as the hat has some significant taper and the extra size gives me some room for reblocking it on my radiers block!

My initial observations:
The felt is awesome. It's thin yet dense and has a great pounce and no moth or bug damage. It's also a great shade of brown. the ribbon is 1 11/16 inches in a matching brown grosgrain (definitely not petersham). the crown is a heavy 5 1/2 inches with side taper and loads of front and back taper. the brim is 2 1/4 inches. The sweatband is a dark caramel tan and is, unfortunately, falling off the reeding. So, like Dave, i'm going to try to repair it. Now, for what I think is the coolest part, the label.... the label on the lining is the old dark blue shield with the 38 New Bond St address which i believe dates the hat somewhere between the forties and 1965. a nice vintage. i'll post some pics later.

[DR Ulloa]

I began repairing the sweat last night and am about half way done. I found it very easy to do. You just go through where the needle previous did. It is just time consuming. A three inch area took me about two hours. It has to be done by hand. I will try to post some pics today. Glad you like what you got there Rich and its good to hear this may be from the fortys. The proportions seem to suggest so as the brim is about 2 1/2''.

Dave

[DR Ulloa]

Also, concerning the sweat; mine looks very similar to John's sweats in color. Almost roan. It is very soft. The only script on it reads:

Herbert Johnson
38, New Bond St.
London W.

It also has that same writing in the blue crest on the liner. Above the blue crest is written "By appointment to Her Majesty the Queen, Hatters."

The ribbon width is 1 3/4" and the brim width is in fact 2 1/4" like yours, Rich. The block shape is different though as this crown is straight sided and straight in the front and back too. A beautiful hat to be sure. One of my best friends told me that this hat looks best on me. I'm inclined to disagree, but in the days since I've had it, I may have received more compliments on this one hat than all others combined. Honestly!

Also, I got a new pair of glasses on Monday and my doctor is from London. He commented saying that his father wore a Herbert Johnson just like this one. When I told him it was indeed an HJ he almost began to cry.

Dave

[Erri]

Guys guys...

;0

[DR Ulloa]

I know. I know. I'll take some with my phone and post them before I leave work today.

Dave

[Erri]

Not the phone!!! We need professional studio shots!

Wait till you get home and take some high quality pictures with the camera! I say no more

[WalkingEye]

Dave, great story about your doctor.

Here are some pics! they're not the best, my camera stinks. i hate point and shoot cameras! one of these days i'll buy a dslr and be able to take some nicer shots.

http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa16 ... 20Johnson/

[Erri]

Thanks WalkingEye, the crown shape reminds me exactly of a HJ I used to have. Same blue crest, sweatband and everything, just a different colour.

[DR Ulloa]

Here are two shots of the hat taken in direct sunlight. They really show how straight this crown is. All I did is recrease the hat once I receieved it.





Dave

[Erri]

I would definitely not reblock it at all. I wouldn't say it's a straight looking crown, nor an Indy block but definitely a great looking hat, I love the colour... probably identical to the seaplane raiders colour (both felt and ribbon) at least judging from these pics, or the other grey (the slightly lighter one that appears on one of the german spies in Cairo). Don't be afraid to post more later on