The "Turn" - Is it a Raiders Standard?

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:08 pm

It's a good thing that I already have a grey Raiders seaplane! haha

My future AB Deluxe will be my go-to hat when it comes to any adventures I might go on. That was the plan I had when I ordered it a year and a half ago.

Originally I was not going to go with the turn. I am not a SA type of guy by any means. But after seeing that picture I just don't know what I want anymore.

Digger4Glory · Post by **Digger4Glory** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:18 pm

The one benefit of lead times, is it give you time to think of what you want.

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:24 am

I disagree... the longer the lead time the more chances I have to change my mind on what style I want!

Turn, or no turn, that is the question!
Whether 'tis nobler in the.... eh, forget it.

VP · Post by VP » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:04 am

jnicktem wrote:But after seeing that picture I just don't know what I want anymore.

You want the turn.

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:09 am

You want the turn

it's like a jedi mind trick...you want the turn...you don't want a hat without the turn...

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:59 am

Nick, trust me buddy. Go with the turn.

Digger4Glory · Post by **Digger4Glory** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:58 am

jnicktem wrote:I disagree... the longer the lead time the more chances I have to change my mind on what style I want!

Turn, or no turn, that is the question!
Whether 'tis nobler in the.... eh, forget it.

HahahahaHaHa! I would go for the turn then!

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:52 pm

So what I am hearing from all of you is that I do NOT want the turn?

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:00 pm

I wanted the turn and it ended up looking terrible on my head - IMHO.
It's really all a matter of taste and personal preference. No turn does not make it any less an Indy hat. If you want to specifically replicate the hat from Raiders, you can go with the opening scene version or the Turn - both look great!

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:45 pm

What about it did you think look terrible on you?

VP · Post by VP » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:49 pm

You can also just get a hat without a turn, wear it for a while and then try the turn and see how you like it. That's what I did with my Akubra, turning wasn't as widely accepted back in the day since it emerged in 2002. http://indygear.com/cow/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2220

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:53 pm

Would putting the turn in later put the front pinch off-center?

VP · Post by VP » Thu Jan 21, 2010 4:59 pm

You move the front pinch and the center dent at the same time of course.

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:14 pm

jnicktem wrote:What about it did you think look terrible on you?

As per John's teachings, the amount of 'turn' varies from person to person depending on the shape of your head and face. Some require more turn than others - which is why it's best to put the turn in yourself, that way there is no 'guess work' involved for the hat supplier.
For me, the hat had to be turned 1 1/2" off center (that's a lot). The brim looked WAY longer on one side than the other - essentially, the hat looked less like a Raiders hat seen on screen and more like a lopsided cowboy hat. Also, when you looked at the hat off your head, you can REALLY see how disporportinate it was, so much so it made the hat look 'wrong'.
I really felt unhappy and uncomfortable wearing the hat in this state. And I really was not happy with how it looked off my head as well. It's all about being confident and happy with this kind of headwear.
Fortunately, the bash I had given it had not yet fully set in, so I unbashed the crown, turned the hat straight, then rebashed it Raides style, but also added the Last Crusade 'curl' on the sides of the brim.
Now, I truly love my Henry. I had to add some foam tape to the inside to give the snug fit I was looking for (I'm inbetween sizes) and now that I have been working the shape enough, I got this puppy looking exactly the way I want it.

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:15 pm

In my experience taking out that front pinch and moving it over a bit is difficult. Any tips to make it easier to rebash a Raiders hat?

And GeneralFrosty- Thank you for your input! Since I have always been convinced that I do not want the turn (until now, of course) I never paid much attention to the possibility of it. So now that my order for an AB Deluxe with Marc is coming up (should be soon!) I really need to make up my mind as soon as possible!

VP · Post by VP » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:26 pm

Only done it once back in Fall '04 with stiff Federation felt, used water and clothespins. Pic after turning:

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:30 pm

Hmmm- water and clothespins... okay. I'm sure I can make that work.

John--- if and when I do that, I am going to have you on the phone! Just a heads up!

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:43 pm

generalFROSTY wrote:
jnicktem wrote:What about it did you think look terrible on you?
As per John's teachings, the amount of 'turn' varies from person to person depending on the shape of your head and face. Some require more turn than others - which is why it's best to put the turn in yourself, that way there is no 'guess work' involved for the hat supplier.
For me, the hat had to be turned 1 1/2" off center (that's a lot). The brim looked WAY longer on one side than the other - essentially, the hat looked less like a Raiders hat seen on screen and more like a lopsided cowboy hat. Also, when you looked at the hat off your head, you can REALLY see how disporportinate it was, so much so it made the hat look 'wrong'.
I really felt unhappy and uncomfortable wearing the hat in this state. And I really was not happy with how it looked off my head as well. It's all about being confident and happy with this kind of headwear.
Fortunately, the bash I had given it had not yet fully set in, so I unbashed the crown, turned the hat straight, then rebashed it Raides style, but also added the Last Crusade 'curl' on the sides of the brim.
Now, I truly love my Henry. I had to add some foam tape to the inside to give the snug fit I was looking for (I'm inbetween sizes) and now that I have been working the shape enough, I got this puppy looking exactly the way I want it.

I also think that you didn't like the effect of the turn. takes a bit to get used to. I thought it looks good. The ribbon might have to be readjusted.

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:51 pm

I tried turning this hat myself and I screwed it up I think

BEFORE:

AFTER:

When I realized I overdid it, I started just wearing the hat a bit off center to get the brim back in decent position.

This how I was able to manage this photo, though you can see clearly that the front pinch is WAY off-center

So, since I have now sold this hat (Hope you are enjoying it, Marc!) I am ready to step up to some new hats to feed my hat-hunger. John, you're gonna make me a Raiders Hero Hat with turn sometime in May. I have absolute confidence in you. But just for the #### of it, I'm gonna get one from Steve too. It's always fun to have these things to compare and I'm an ####### with money. (That doesn't mean I have a lot, it just means I'm not slowing down with this as I had hoped, but I AM selling drum stuff on eBay and NOT using my credit card.)

Lastly, Jason is going to make me a Fedoraiders SOC hat, and I am ready for him to do his thing. I know that's gonna be one turned, floppy hat!

But to Steve and John, my hope is that you will make my turn moderate, keeping the rounded smile of the front part of the brim, not allowing it to be massively distorted, ala SOC.

Daren Henry W

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:10 pm

Nope. I'm going to beat the snot out of it so the brim look like it's missing teeth.

DarenHenryW · Post by **DarenHenryW** » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:42 pm

BendingOak wrote:Nope. I'm going to beat the snot out of it so the brim look like it's missing teeth.

Well, if any hat can take the beating, it's yours!

DHW

Digger4Glory · Post by **Digger4Glory** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:15 am

So not withstanding preference as to have the turn or not, my final answer to the question:
The "Turn"- Is it a Raiders Standard?
YES
It appears most in the film and it gives a heck of alot of character!

Mitch LaRue · Post by **Mitch LaRue** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:55 am

Well...
It's a good thing we didn't answer the question too quickly or we all would've lost out on a lot of great photos and good conversation.

VP · Post by VP » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:30 am

DarenHenryW wrote:BEFORE:

The front of the center dent was popped out.

Digger4Glory · Post by **Digger4Glory** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:43 am

Mitch LaRue wrote:
Well...
It's a good thing we didn't answer the question too quickly or we all would've lost out on a lot of great photos and good conversation.

and that's what it's all about brother!

Mitch LaRue · Post by **Mitch LaRue** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:10 pm

IndyGear AND The Hokeypokey!
Cheers,
Mitch

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:57 pm

John said I may not have liked the effect of the turn -
This is partly true - I DO like a bit of a wavy brim - which I am giving the back of mine with a little training. Having the hat in my hands, and looking it on my head - as apposed to looking at pics of other peoples hats - really made it more clear to me what my actual tastes were.
I am so happy with how it turned out - but if I ever do a Raiders hat with turn, it will have to be a hand made penman, and I will have to be at John's shop.

The Antiquarian · Post by **The Antiquarian** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:08 pm

Can someone enlighten me as to what the "Raiders Turn" is? I'm sorry, I'm a bit new myself to the Indiana Jones screen accurate gear thing...

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:21 pm

The Antiquarian wrote:Can someone enlighten me as to what the "Raiders Turn" is? I'm sorry, I'm a bit new myself to the Indiana Jones screen accurate gear thing...

It feels good to have learned enough from being a member here to answer this question.
The Raiders brim looks 'wavy' because instead of the hat being worn straight, the hat was rotated to the left, then the center bash was put it.
This effect makes the back of the brim - which is curled up and not snapped down like the front - come forward a bit which gives the hat brim a wavy look to it when worn.
Ok, maybe I did not answer that clearly enough - anyone have pics to post? Actually, John is the best at explaining the turn...I'm going to curl up in a ball and cry now.

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:12 pm

I just thought I would let you know that I have made a firm decision on what I want my AB Deluxe to be styled after. All I will say about it though is that none of you would have guessed this!!!

Stay tuned...

VP · Post by VP » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:23 pm

You got both!

jnicktem · Post by **jnicktem** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 2:24 pm

Post by **Holt** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:23 pm

The Antiquarian wrote:Can someone enlighten me as to what the "Raiders Turn" is? I'm sorry, I'm a bit new myself to the Indiana Jones screen accurate gear thing...

its all here in this very forum. look thru a couple pages or search. generalFROSTY explains it pretty well other then that the hat was rotated to the RIGHT.

edit:

here. I just did this for you, so, your welcome.

1'rst picture is a straight brim. middle picture illustrates the ''Turn'' to the right until you get that wavy brim shown in the 3'rd picture.

edit2:

do NOT turn the hat back! put the center pinch in and you have a raiders hat with turn

Mitch LaRue · Post by **Mitch LaRue** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:13 pm

FINALLY someone posted three pictures showing how the turn works!
$\:D/$

THANK YOU, Holt!

I can't tell you how many times I've read someone's attempt to describe the basics of the Turn (only to have their efforts met with confusion, more questions and requests for clarification) and thought to myself "If only someone should just post THREE simple photos showing the three basic steps (or stages) that result in a Turned hat!"

... I even thought about doing it a few times myself (AND with a drawn arrow!)

But I think it way more fitting that a guy with far more Gear-Credentials than I have (like yourself) be the one to have done it.
Hopefully, it will help to explain this concept a lot better and a lot more quickly!
Sincere Thanks!

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:07 pm

Mitch, People still will get confused. The thing you must piont out in these three shots......IS do not turn the hat back before creasing.

rover smith · Post by **rover smith** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:05 am

BendingOak wrote:Mitch, People still will get confused. The thing you must piont out in these three shots......IS do not turn the hat back before creasing.

People actually do that? Did they not think "why turn the hat if I'm just turning it back?"

Good step by step photo though Holt, I think that should clear up any confusion that people may have. Perhaps it should be stickied at the top of the Fedora section?

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:20 am

Sorry if this has been covered, but, of those of you that turn your hats, is it uncomfortable? And do you wear it that way for looks despite it being uncomfortable? Do you wear it as costume, or as a regular hat? I ask because when my hats are even slightly off center on my head, it drives me crazy, and I wear a hat every day, as I assume most of you do, too.

VP · Post by VP » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:08 am

scottyrocks6 wrote:Sorry if this has been covered, but, of those of you that turn your hats, is it uncomfortable?

No.

scottyrocks6 wrote:And do you wear it that way for looks despite it being uncomfortable?

Yes.

scottyrocks6 wrote:Do you wear it as costume, or as a regular hat?

Regular.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:21 am

scottyrocks6 wrote:Sorry if this has been covered, but, of those of you that turn your hats, is it uncomfortable? And do you wear it that way for looks despite it being uncomfortable? Do you wear it as costume, or as a regular hat? I ask because when my hats are even slightly off center on my head, it drives me crazy, and I wear a hat every day, as I assume most of you do, too.

Depending on the stiffness of the hat it can feel weird at first, but the hat will conform to your head, making it as comfortable as the hat can be, in time. All but one of my 5 Indy hats are turned (my grey Penman being the exception) and I wear them all regularly without any feelings of discomfort. The stiffer the hat the more time it takes to conform to your head, but a week or so of wearing should fix any hat.

Regards, Geert

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:57 am

gwyddion wrote:
scottyrocks6 wrote:Sorry if this has been covered, but, of those of you that turn your hats, is it uncomfortable? And do you wear it that way for looks despite it being uncomfortable? Do you wear it as costume, or as a regular hat? I ask because when my hats are even slightly off center on my head, it drives me crazy, and I wear a hat every day, as I assume most of you do, too.
Depending on the stiffness of the hat it can feel weird at first, but the hat will conform to your head, making it as comfortable as the hat can be, in time. All but one of my 5 Indy hats are turned (my grey Penman being the exception) and I wear them all regularly without any feelings of discomfort. The stiffer the hat the more time it takes to conform to your head, but a week or so of wearing should fix any hat.

Regards, Geert

Okay, thank you. I now have some real motivation for trying the turn. I like the look, but the uneven pressure, although small, was making me (more) nuts.

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 12:58 pm

I don't think the turn is worth cutting blood circulation off to your head!
Holt - thank's for correcting me before, I meant to say it is the LEFT side of the hat (with the bow) that is turned towards your RIGHT.
And yeah, anyone who turns the hat then turns it back then does the crease...well, that's just plain silly!

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:43 pm

generalFROSTY wrote:I don't think the turn is worth cutting blood circulation off to your head!
Holt - thank's for correcting me before, I meant to say it is the LEFT side of the hat (with the bow) that is turned towards your RIGHT.
And yeah, anyone who turns the hat then turns it back then does the crease...well, that's just plain silly!

I had a couple people do it. One right here at COW.

Post by **Holt** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 5:48 pm

here is the new tutorial. Ill have Bink ad this as a stickie or something.

VP · Post by VP » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:00 pm

The final pic should be winking with a thumbs up and a balloon going "Oh Yeah!".

Post by **Holt** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:21 pm

hehe. thanks. and all this with just a fed 4

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:29 pm

Added in the FAQ sticky.

Mitch LaRue · Post by **Mitch LaRue** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:07 pm

(Breathes a satisfied sigh of relief...)

Good news, bink... Thanks!

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 pm

Indiana Holt wrote:here is the new tutorial. Ill have Bink ad this as a stickie or something.

Um, I like it better before the rotation. I guess Im just a symmetrical kinda guy.

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:39 pm

scottyrocks6 wrote:
Indiana Holt wrote:here is the new tutorial. Ill have Bink ad this as a stickie or something.

Um, I like it better before the rotation. I guess Im just a symmetrical kinda guy.

I'm the same way - to a degree. I like the way the turn looks but felt that the one side was way to wide for my head shape. You will notice in those pictures that when the hat is turned, that left side (right if you are the one wearing it) is sticking out wider.
I think if I do the turn with a future Indy hat purchase, I would at least want the brim cut a little less wide and see how that looks.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:43 pm

generalFROSTY wrote:
scottyrocks6 wrote:
Indiana Holt wrote:here is the new tutorial. Ill have Bink ad this as a stickie or something.

Um, I like it better before the rotation. I guess Im just a symmetrical kinda guy.
I'm the same way - to a degree. I like the way the turn looks but felt that the one side was way to wide for my head shape. You will notice in those pictures that when the hat is turned, that left side (right if you are the one wearing it) is sticking out wider.
I think if I do the turn with a future Indy hat purchase, I would at least want the brim cut a little less wide and see how that looks.

This is what i felt when I read that.