How would Indy replace his fedora?

[WyoWilliam]

I'm just wondering- is the hat he gets as a teen in UT supposed to be the hat he wears throughout the movies? We all know, of course, that not only does the hat change between movies, it changes between scenes! But in the lore, does anyone have any theories how/ where he replaces it after leaving it on the Bantu Wind, etc.?

[Chewbacca Jones]

The mythic implication has been that the same hat has been with him since the Cross incident as a kid. One would assume that, after the Ark was safe, Indy would have contacted Sallah or the Katanga to get his stuff back. Most especially the hat. It is his talisman, his good-luck piece. Probably serviced, reblocked, cleaned, and repaired many times during his career. But a life-long companion.

[TheExit148]

Check out this thread, Johnny Fedora has quite the story to tell about this. Its a great read.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42015

[Chiliana Jones]

it's the same hat all the way since the coronado adventure. Harrison has confirmed it and Indy has confirmed it. nuff said



CJ

[alphared6]

Ahhh ... I dun-no. The hat he receives from "Fedora" is not the same hat, it is definitely not the same bash, I don't think its as tall a crown and the brim seems wider to me.
If we're taking the books as Cannon, this latest book "Army of the Dead" states the hat is the one he got from "Fedora," ok ... but they just don't look the same.

[WyoWilliam]

I never read Johnny Fedora's story before - very cool. (And I love the little in-jokes about Swales and Noodleman -ha!)

[WyoWilliam]

Though "Fedora" having an English hat in Utah and a Connecticut hattery having Herbert Johnson sweatbands/ liners stretches the imagination a bit.

[Bruce Wayne]

I just always figured that Katanga sent his stuff to Salah, who in turn sent it to Indy.

[fenris]

Ahhh ... I dun-no. The hat he receives from "Fedora" is not the same hat, it is definitely not the same bash, I don't think its as tall a crown and the brim seems wider to me.
If we're taking the books as Cannon, this latest book "Army of the Dead" states the hat is the one he got from "Fedora," ok ... but they just don't look the same.

Reblocking to a taller crown made the brim smaller and not as wide as seen on YIJC... Well, that's just me rationalizing why the hats don't look the same.

[whipitgood]

I always felt it was the same hat. Over in another thread I made mention of Indy briefly losing his hat in LC, believing it had gone over the cliff. It seems it had to be one hat, otherwise him recovering it wouldn't have carried the same weight IMO.

[BendingOak]

By calling Adventurebilt hat company.

[Michaelson]

I have NEVER accepted the fact it was the 'one and only hat'. I believe the fact he HAD a hat was his 'touchstone'.

Reminds me of the character Charlton Heston played in 'The Greatest Show on Earth!' He was never without his fedora, ever. When the train wreck happened and he was still trying to boss the show after being injured, he lost his hat in the wreck. Jimmy Stewart's character gave him HIS hat, and Heston was happy. All he needed was a hat on his head and things were ok. Didn't matter WHO'S hat it was, he just needed a hat.

That's the way I have always seen Indy and HIS fedora, no matter HOW they now try to spin the story to make it his 'one and only one' hat in his lifetime. That dog just don't hunt for me.

Regards! Michaelson

[jnicktem]

I just try to remember it's a movie and that Indiana Jones is not a real person. So sure, it's possible for a fictional character to have the same hat in 4 movies.



Please don't hurt me!

[Chewbacca Jones]

Ahhh ... I dun-no. The hat he receives from "Fedora" is not the same hat, it is definitely not the same bash, I don't think its as tall a crown and the brim seems wider to me.
If we're taking the books as Cannon, this latest book "Army of the Dead" states the hat is the one he got from "Fedora," ok ... but they just don't look the same.

Well, that's the thing. They DON'T look the same, but the story says they are. Which was the question.

[BendingOak]

I just try to remember it's a movie and that Indiana Jones is not a real person. So sure, it's possible for a fictional character to have the same hat in 4 movies.



Please don't hurt me!

Thats a great answer.

[RCSignals]

I have NEVER accepted the fact it was the 'one and only hat'. I believe the fact he HAD a hat was his 'touchstone'.

Reminds me of the character Charlton Heston played in 'The Greatest Show on Earth!' He was never without his fedora, ever. When the train wreck happened and he was still trying to boss the show after being injured, he lost his hat in the wreck. Jimmy Stewart's character gave him HIS hat, and Heston was happy. All he needed was a hat on his head and things were ok. Didn't matter WHO'S hat it was, he just needed a hat.

That's the way I have always seen Indy and HIS fedora, no matter HOW they now try to spin the story to make it his 'one and only one' hat in his lifetime. That dog just don't hunt for me.

Regards! Michaelson

That I have to agree with

[darthbish]

I think he'd give Jen or Deb a call, at Hatsdirect..

[Digger4Glory]

I think as far as the films are concerned, it is intended to be the same hat from LC. I'm concluding with Indy having it reblocked over and over through time. Which gave it different looks. I think in the novel of Raiders though, he loses his hat on the u-boat. If I remember correctly. it's been about thirty years since I read it.

[alphared6]

Just a real world note ... I have a beaver felt fedora manufactured in about 1952 that I've worn since 1974. It's ragged out. There's a hole where it pinches in the front, and despite several bollockings it's lost it nice clean shape. Nothing lasts forever.

[fenris]

"Hmmm... I wore my brown hat yesterday... Maybe I'm gonna wear my grey one today."

[eazybox]

The mythic implication has been that the same hat has been with him since the Cross incident as a kid. One would assume that, after the Ark was safe, Indy would have contacted Sallah or the Katanga to get his stuff back. Most especially the hat. It is his talisman, his good-luck piece. Probably serviced, reblocked, cleaned, and repaired many times during his career. But a life-long companion.

Hard to understand why some people can't grasp this, even when Ford himself says it.

Indy is a fictional character from a fictional story. Fictional stories often employ symbolism to illustrate deeper truths. The hat is, in a way, symbolic of Indy himself-- it's a survivor. You can accept that or not, but if you don't, it's kind of like saying the Lone Ranger must have used regular bullets, because silver ones are ballistically unstable.

If you are speculating about what a REAL Indy may have worn, that would be different. A real Indy probably would have owned many hats in the course of his adventures-- but he also probably wouldn't have SURVIVED his first couple of adventures.

Jack

[Michaelson]

Can't grasp the fact that Indy is a fictional character? Excuse me, but a LOT of us have made that very statement for decades on forums all over the internet.

The question posed in the subject title is 'how would Indy replace his hat?' That is not a question regarding a 'fictional' or 'mythical' item. That is a question regarding replacement of a real world piece of gear.

His gear was never originally intended to be so philosophically 'deep'. According to the original book, he DID lose his hat, as well as his whip etc. when he left the ship and went to the sub in Raiders. It's only been over the years that the story gets spun over and over again to give these items a story of their own.

There was nothing absolutely 'magical' about the hat in the beginning. It's only become so in recent years, and like I said, it's one spin I've never accepted. It all started back when it 'returned' to Indy in LC, which was only intended as a visual joke when it originally happened. They couldn't figure out how to get it back on his head to finish the film after the tank fight, so why not just have the wind blow it back with Ford giving a comic double take?

The 'Lone Ranger' analogy, though good, is not equal. His silver bullets were introduced and created as a symbol of good from the very beginning. Indy's hat, on the other hand, has taken on a life of its own. What started out as just a head covering has become a 'talisman' of mythical proportion.

What next? His jacket a symbolic shield against evil? The whip his sword of justice?

Ford also originally said Indy was nothing more than a grave robber too. Nothing mythical about that!

Anyway, not to be a wet blanket here. If that's the path you choose to walk, go for it. This is just a hobby, and whatever 'floats your boat' and all that .....I'm just not interested in going down that trail myself, and never have been.

So, to reply to the question posed, he would have just gone to his local mens clothing store and purchased a replacement. They were in every town, and on almost every corner, and remained so in some form or other right up until the early 1970's (at least they did in MY hometown).

Regards! Michaelson

[alphared6]

Well and soundly stated!

[Digger4Glory]

Well spoken, Michaelson..

[eazybox]

Can't grasp the fact that Indy is a fictional character? Excuse me, but a LOT of us have made that very statement for decades on forums all over the internet.

The question posed in the subject title is 'how would Indy replace his hat?' That is not a question regarding a 'fictional' or 'mythical' item. That is a question regarding replacement of a real world piece of gear.

His gear was never originally intended to be so philosophically 'deep'. According to the original book, he DID lose his hat, as well as his whip etc. when he left the ship and went to the sub in Raiders. It's only been over the years that the story gets spun over and over again to give these items a story of their own.

There was nothing absolutely 'magical' about the hat in the beginning. It's only become so in recent years, and like I said, it's one spin I've never accepted. It all started back when it 'returned' to Indy in LC, which was only intended as a visual joke when it originally happened. They couldn't figure out how to get it back on his head to finish the film after the tank fight, so why not just have the wind blow it back with Ford giving a comic double take?

The 'Lone Ranger' analogy, though good, is not equal. His silver bullets were introduced and created as a symbol of good from the very beginning. Indy's hat, on the other hand, has taken on a life of its own. What started out as just a head covering has become a 'talisman' of mythical proportion.

What next? His jacket a symbolic shield against evil? The whip his sword of justice?

Ford also originally said Indy was nothing more than a grave robber too. Nothing mythical about that!

Anyway, not to be a wet blanket here. If that's the path you choose to walk, go for it. This is just a hobby, and whatever 'floats your boat' and all that .....I'm just not interested in going down that trail myself, and never have been.

So, to reply to the question posed, he would have just gone to his local mens clothing store and purchased a replacement. They were in every town, and on almost every corner, and remained so in some form or other right up until the early 1970's (at least they did in MY hometown).

Regards! Michaelson

Michaelson, I wasn't attacking you or anyone in my post; I was just expressing wonderment at why some people can't accept the intentions of the story's creators.

The title of the thread may refer to real life, but the post was about the films; and I agree, the idea about the hat being "mythical" was probably developed over time and was not part of the original concept.

The mention of his hat being lost in Raiders was also in the original script, but was deleted-- so the idea that "he never loses his hat" may have been the reason for its removal.

Like you said, "whatever"-- it's just movies. To me, the symbolism fits neatly and satisfies the need for larger than life heroes in my favorite movies.

Jack

[Michaelson]

I know you weren't attacking anyone, Jack, and it was never read as such.

Sorry if it appeared that I was implyng as much. That was not my intent. I was just stating my thoughts on the topic, and picked up on your opening line.

That said, regarding the 'original concept of the creators', it has LONG been stated by Lucas that Raiders (the original concept for the character from the get-go) was a homage to the old B serials of the 1930's.

In those serials, and B movies, the good guy never lost his hat. The reason was simple... it kept folks from realizing it was the stunt double taking all those punches in the gut and falls off cliffs as it covered their face.... that was the running 'joke'.

The good guy wasn't SUPPOSED to lose his hat, no matter what!

Regards! Michaelson

[whipitgood]

Have Lucas or GL or SS ever commented on it being one or many hats?

[Michaelson]

The only thing I've ever read them to say (Spielberg, actually) is that there were only two hats in Indy's closet at any given time. His brown 'work' hat, and his grey 'travel' hat.

I always liked that description, as that's exactly what you found in that generation's closet too. My Dad and Grand Dad had their daily work hat handy, and their Sunday/travel hat in the closet to wear when they were dressed to go to town or church. They were each replaced when they wore out, but otherwise that's all they had at any given time.

Regards! Michaelson

[whipitgood]

Well all I know is if there were multiple hats throughout out his life, he must have had a heck of a time finding a hatter to make the right block shape and use the correct ribbon

[Chiliana Jones]

In those serials, and B movies, the good guy never lost his hat. The reason was simple... it kept folks from realizing it was the stunt double taking all those punches in the gut and falls off cliffs as it covered their face.... that was the running 'joke'.

The good guy wasn't SUPPOSED to lose his hat, no matter what!

Regards! Michaelson

that's the same reason why indy didnt loose his hat at first(Raiders) if i remember correctly,in the script, indy lost TWO hats in Raiders, during the boulder scene and in the ocean, swimming from bantu wind to the submarine. this got changed because the hat was a good way hiding the stunt doubles faces and that's why they made the gag about it : Indy never looses his hat!


even in YIJC he doesnt leave the hat behind in desperate situations. when in disguise, hiding from the secret police and other german soldiers Indy has his hat tucked somewhere in the jacket/shirt/pants while everything else he carried is left behind. he pulls the hat out when he's in a safe zone. he even almost lost his arm in TOD for it. Wouldn't gone through all that trouble if the hat didn't mean anything to him


CJ

[Michaelson]

Well all I know is if there were multiple hats throughout out his life, he must have had a heck of a time finding a hatter to make the right block shape and use the correct ribbon

If you use TofD as an example.....yes....yes he did.

Regards! Michaelson

[Michaelson]

that's the same reason why indy didnt loose his hat at first(Raiders) if i remember correctly,in the script, indy lost TWO hats in Raiders, during the boulder scene and in the ocean, swimming from bantu wind to the submarine. this got changed because the hat was a good way hiding the stunt doubles faces and that's why they made the gag about it : Indy never looses his hat!


CJ

No, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. In the actual 1930 serials, THEY never lost THEIR hats, and for the reason I stated....to hide the stunt double's face. Indy not losing his hat in the film was a nod to that practice, since Raiders was a homage to those serials and films of THAT era.

By the way, when did Indy lost his hat in the boulder scene? He had it on when he ran from the temple, when he dove into the water to catch the plane, and if you look closely, you can see the drenched wreck of a his hat in his left hand when he's telling Jock about the snake. Are we talking about the same scene?

Regards! Michaelson

[Chiliana Jones]

that's the same reason why indy didnt loose his hat at first(Raiders) if i remember correctly,in the script, indy lost TWO hats in Raiders, during the boulder scene and in the ocean, swimming from bantu wind to the submarine. this got changed because the hat was a good way hiding the stunt doubles faces and that's why they made the gag about it : Indy never looses his hat!


CJ

No, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. In the actual 1930 serials, THEY never lost THEIR hats, and for the reason I stated....to hide the stunt double's face. Indy not losing his hat in the film was a nod to that practice, since Raiders was a homage to those serials and films of THAT era.

By the way, when did Indy lost his hat in the boulder scene? He had it on when he ran from the temple, when he dove into the water to catch the plane, and if you look closely, you can see the drenched wreck of a his hat in his left hand when he's telling Jock about the snake. Are we talking about the same scene?

Regards! Michaelson

i was talking about the script...it said so in the script
no point missed here. i know the movies is a homage to the serials. it's just that what i've read somewhere. i should have the article around here somewhere...


and...mentioning the YIJC, the hat, the one worn by sean p flanery, it has a small distressing in the ribbon in the front over his left eye. the same distressing is shown in the hat worn by George Hall. the hat looks different but same type distressing in the ribbon + a little extra. this was made to show the audience that it is the same hat. might not be the same distressing on Harrison's hat but come on. the movies were made before the series, before they even thought of that distressing idea.

the hat changes from movies to series, yes, but that doesn't mean it's not the same. knowing hollywood right, they dont care how the hat looks by itself(only if it's brown), they only care how the hat looks on the actor's. not everyone can pull of the harrison-hat

[Michaelson]

AH, the script. Well, who reads those anyway? Understood!

When it comes to discussions on the YIJC hat, though, I bow to YOUR expertise, my friend, as I'm not aware of many others here who have done the kind of study you have done over the years on that particular hat, Chiliana.

HIGH regards! Michaelson

[Chiliana Jones]

i thank you kindly my good man Michaelson


high regards



CJ

[RCSignals]

Does Bernie Pollock not say we are to believe Indy has gone through many hats, jackets, boots etc but of the same style?

I'm not so sure the original creators meant for everything to be the exact same items over time, rather an iconic style.

[whipitgood]

I'm not so sure the original creators meant for everything to be the exact same items over time, rather an iconic style.

We're talking about George Lucas here, so nothing is ever what it was originally meant to be. 20 years from now Indy may have a laser cannon attached to his hat.

[Michaelson]

[RCSignals]

Perhaps, but before the laser cannon appears, we will probably recognise the hat

[eazybox]

I know you weren't attacking anyone, Jack, and it was never read as such.

Regards! Michaelson

Understood.

RC, I don't think Bernie's opinion really counts any more than ours, as he's not one of the Big Three; we've already heard from HF on this issue; I'm not sure if GL or SS have addressed it specifically.

Jack

[RCSignals]

I think Bernies opinion in this bears weight, and I'm sure he developed it with exposure to the the opinions of the 'Big Three'.

I'm not sure HF's intent was not dissimilar to Bernie's statement.

[eazybox]

I think Bernies opinion in this bears weight, and I'm sure he developed it with exposure to the the opinions of the 'Big Three'.

I'm not sure HF's intent was not dissimilar to Bernie's statement.

"Whatever floats your boat..."

HF said yes, we are supposed to believe there was only one hat in response to a question in an online interview that has been posted here. I didn't use quotes because I'm not sure those were his exact words; if someone else finds the article, maybe they'll post it again.

If you're going to get into arguing the semantics about "one hat" meaning many hats of the exact same type, I'm outta here-- I don't care about it THAT much.

Jack

[Bruce Wayne]

I think in the novel of Raiders though, he loses his hat on the u-boat.

At the end of the novel where he is in the Washington office, he does indeed say something to the extent that he lost his favourite hat.

[EvilDean]

What next? His jacket a symbolic shield against evil? The whip his sword of justice?

hahahaha

[backstagejack]

Michaelson, I wasn't attacking you or anyone in my post; I was just expressing wonderment at why some people can't accept the intentions of the story's creators.

The title of the thread may refer to real life, but the post was about the films; and I agree, the idea about the hat being "mythical" was probably developed over time and was not part of the original concept.

The mention of his hat being lost in Raiders was also in the original script, but was deleted-- so the idea that "he never loses his hat" may have been the reason for its removal.

Like you said, "whatever"-- it's just movies. To me, the symbolism fits neatly and satisfies the need for larger than life heroes in my favorite movies.

Jack

Really to me, threads like this are just fun. Debate and theories. Sure its fiction but thats why we're all here. To discuss gear and to just to talk BS about Indy.

I pick all movies apart in exactly the same manner of questions like "How could Indy have the same hat from 1914 till 1957?"

It's all just fun.

i was talking about the script...it said so in the script
no point missed here. i know the movies is a homage to the serials. it's just that what i've read somewhere. i should have the article around here somewhere...


and...mentioning the YIJC, the hat, the one worn by sean p flanery, it has a small distressing in the ribbon in the front over his left eye. the same distressing is shown in the hat worn by George Hall. the hat looks different but same type distressing in the ribbon + a little extra. this was made to show the audience that it is the same hat. might not be the same distressing on Harrison's hat but come on. the movies were made before the series, before they even thought of that distressing idea.

the hat changes from movies to series, yes, but that doesn't mean it's not the same. knowing hollywood right, they dont care how the hat looks by itself(only if it's brown), they only care how the hat looks on the actor's.

In YIJC the hat changes too.

Spring Break Adventure is the same hat he wears in Adventures in the Secret Service. But the one he wears in Mystery of the Blues, Teasure of the Peacocks Eye, and Hollywood Follies isn't.

Heck, the one in mystery of the blues almost looks to me as if it has a teardrop bash.

Sadly, I have never seen any of the Old Man Indy footage as the only YIJC I've owned was the VHS versions that GL released that have none of the Old man Indy and only released every other ep. from ep. 12 up. I have yet to acquire the DVD versions.

not everyone can pull of the harrison-hat

True, one of my problems with buying a good Indy hat....that tall a crown doesn't look right on me. I'm not as tall, nor do I have the same head size, or facial shape as HF. Working on modifying a Indy hat to look good on me.....

But on topic...I think indy replaces his hat and jacket whenever he needs to. Proven by the fact that the jacket in LC and CS doesn't have a hole blown in it by the gunshot in ROTLA.

And using the movie's obvious differences in hats adds credence. Indy's hat changes throughout the movies and YIJC therefore, Indy just buys a new hat when he needs one. I think I read Michaelson once state (correct me if I'm wrong) that he figures he rotates them out. Buys a new one, when it starts getting ratty he uses it as an adventure hat, while wearing a clean new one for school and normal society till it gets ratty, etc.

[eazybox]

it's the same hat all the way since the coronado adventure. Harrison has confirmed it and Indy has confirmed it. nuff said



CJ

Never say "nuff said" on this forum!

Backstage, I KNOW this is all supposed to be in fun! That was part of the point I was trying to make, but fun can and often does get carried to ridiculous extremes, especially when people feel their cherished "fun" prejudices are being threatened.

Again, to me, the slight "magical" implications are part of what makes Indy interesting. His whip almost was like a fiery sword of justice at the beginning of CS, but throughout most of the rest of that film he seemed almost like a regular guy-- even Marion is able to outdo him.

I think Indy's lack of "bigger-than-lifeness" in CS was a big reason why I was so disapp0inted with that film. But that's just MY cherished prejudice, and I can allow others to own theirs and hopefully we can all co-exist in a spirit of fun, peace and love. Nuff said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4UugQulZ7s

Jack

[RCSignals]

....................
............... but fun can and often does get carried to ridiculous extremes, especially when people feel their cherished "fun" prejudices are being threatened.

...........

Jack

Like this?

If you're going to get into arguing the semantics about "one hat" meaning many hats of the exact same type, I'm outta here-- I don't care about it THAT much.

[eazybox]

....................
............... but fun can and often does get carried to ridiculous extremes, especially when people feel their cherished "fun" prejudices are being threatened.

...........

Jack

Like this?

If you're going to get into arguing the semantics about "one hat" meaning many hats of the exact same type, I'm outta here-- I don't care about it THAT much.

Dis ain't personal, it's strictly business.

Jack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3FnpaWQJO0

[whipitgood]

Maybe some of you can refresh my memory as I 've only seen CS one time. Was IJ wearing the fedora when they nuked the fridge? If this is the case, I have a hard time believing he was able to keep his beloved hat. I always felt it was the same lid that Fedora bestowed upon him, but after being exposed to nuclear radiation, I think they may have burned the thing.

[Michaelson]

Yep, he was. Good point.

Regards! Michaelson