My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:36 pm

Well she may not be pretty but she's mine. The description said it was missing the cylinder and the grips. After I receive it through my local FFL transferer I'll hook up with someone who has a complete WG to see what parts I'm missing. I've already located reproduction grips. I'll probably use either a resin or metal reproduction of the cylinder since I don't plan on firing it. I just want my Indy replica.

http://cyberwerks.net/WebleyWGframe.jpg

I might re-blue it using this stuff.
http://www.bluewonder.us/

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:43 pm

Don't reblue it! Half of its beauty is in the patina. ;-)

Ronski · Post by **Ronski** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:55 pm

I must admit, I'm somewhat jealous. Why not look into fully restoring it, though? If it's not too much more, Have a fully functional Webley?

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:13 pm

Ronski wrote:I must admit, I'm somewhat jealous. Why not look into fully restoring it, though? If it's not too much more, Have a fully functional Webley?

The parts are near impossible to find for this model. You can get all the missing parts for the Mark IV and VI but I haven't found a source who has the cylinder and I've been searching. Cast ones is probably my best bet until something does come my way.

As far as re-blueing it, I thought it would look much better then what it appears to look like, I haven't seen it in person but the gun looks like someone tried to sand or steel wool it from the picture. If it were left natural I might consider leaving it that way also. Another thing is is what will the cylinder I find look like? What are the chances of it matching the gun in appearance? I will want them to look the same.

hocfutue · Post by **hocfutue** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:17 pm

I'd leave it as it, personally.

But if you decide to reblue it, have it done by a competent gunsmith. The only thing that reduces the value of a firearm more than rebluing is a bad rebluing job.

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:40 pm

Why did you have to do a FFL transfer? Is it a later turn of the century model? Mine is 1897, so its an antique. Was delivered right to my door.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:00 am

It's coming from England and they require it. The FFL I'm going to use does bluing in the old fashioned way of the era so I might talk with him about doing my gun. Restoring it all depends on if I can find authentic pieces. Otherwise I'll get by with sprucing it up with the reproduction of the metal parts I need.

Jack Morris
Cumberland Sports
Olympia, WA 98501

Transfer fee: $20.00 long guns, $25.00 handguns, NICS call included in fee, plus sales tax.

Small shop with Gunsmithing the major part of the business. We buy, sell, repair, customize. Blueing is by the old slow rust blue method. Porting shotgun barrells has become a large part of the business. Small inventory of guns, optics, and accesories.

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:36 am

You might condsider doing the reblue job yourself. It could use a little touch up to prevent rust and it won't give it a brand new look.

If I had what you have, I'd probably go about the next few steps just as you've described. If I wanted a fully functional gun, I would have just gotten it.

misfit · Post by **misfit** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:51 am

I would look hear http://www.e-gunparts.com/model.asp?idDept=274 or post a looking to buy parts hear http://www.sturmgewehr.com/

Indiana Bond · Post by **Indiana Bond** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:30 am

Lantzn,

If I may ask, what did you pay for it?

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:34 am

Indiana Bond wrote:Lantzn,

If I may ask, what did you pay for it?

165 pounds +20% seller fee.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:33 pm

Dang, be very careful on buying antique arms from England.

I bought a partial gun from an auction house in England. I was told by the auction house that the gun was of 1896 vintage and would not need a license or to be sent through an FFL but could be sent directly to me because it's older then 1898 and considered an antique. Great what a savings right! So I win this parts gun (missing cylinder and grips) for 165 pound + auction fees totaling about $300 US. Now when it comes time to ship this to me this is the message I receive from the shipping department.

Dear Lantz,

In UK these parts of a revolver are categorised as Prohibited weapons even though these parts being manufactured prior to 1898 are classified as a non firearm in the USA.
All Prohibited weapons have to be transported in the UK using a secure designated vehicle with 2 personnel.

Since 9/11 all airline freight handlers charge a Security handling fee on all Prohibited Cargo, such as your item in UK - this charge is £160 which is beyond our control and is payable in addition to normal freight charges.

Collection Norfolk- Canvey /packaging/ preparation OGEL for export / transport to Servisair - freight handlers - London Gatwick/ flight to Seattle
TOTAL £395 UKP

I can only get delivered into Seattle where you will need to clear - we will append to Airway Bill your telephone number in order that US handlers notify you re arrival.

I look forward to hearing from you
Kind Regards
Harry

What this means is it will cost me 235 pounds to ship and 160 pound for the firearms transport fee ($570 US) so I can drive 1.5 hours to Seattle to pick it up (time wasted). All for my bargain $300 gun.

Live and learn.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:54 pm

I questioned further and got this response.

Dear Lantz

Thank you for your mail

Yes, I am afraid my figures are correct - your revolver or rather the incomplete revolver in UK is classified as a Prohibited Weapon and as mentioned in my previous mail below---------1) airline freight carrier security charges before I quote you for shipping are £160 UK which is factored in the price - this is a standard charge by Continental's agent's Servisair - ALL airlines travelling from UK charge a similar cost for handling handguns - in many cases more for the handling of these Prohibited Weapons.
2) We have to take the revolver in a designated secure vehicle to the airport with 2 personnel in that vehicle - a round trip of 160 miles with the 2 men.
As an aside the charge for shipping 10 or 15 handguns is the same as for a single one.
I appreciate your concerns but I am afraid the UK is not user friendly for freight haulage of handguns - they may only be moved to USA by airfreight and we are all held to ransom on this with our Government bureaucracy regarding inland transportation ie 2 men in a vehicle and Airline freight handler's greed regarding their security charge since 9/11.
I await your comments - I have this discourse many times a year with Clients.

kind regards
Harry

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:07 pm

What a nightmare!

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:53 pm

WOW!

You would have been better off saving for a complete WG in the states. At that price you were half way there anyway. If there was a way to get out of this purchase I'd look into it. Better to get a complete gun.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:10 pm

sithspawn wrote:WOW! You would have been better off saving for a complete WG in the states. At that price you were half way there anyway. If there was a way to get out of this purchase I'd look into it. Better to get a complete gun.

That's exactly what I told them in my response. I'm really waying in on this though because these WGs are very rare and have now skyrocketed in price and most go for $2500-$3500 US, with mints ones at $4500 -$6000 with their accessories. I saw a completed rusted one in the US with an asking price of $1650!
I think the word got out on the new Indy film using these because if you go back a year or so they went for about half that price across the board in the US.
As far as this gun goes it looks to be in pretty decent shape with all markings readable. It's just missing the cylinder and grips. I found repro grips for under $30 and was given a lead in the states for someone who might have the missing parts. So I guess I'll see what I can get the needed parts for and see where I would stand in total cost to have a complete gun, if I go with this purchase. At roughly $870 to get this gun I may still be ahead in the long run. It's a tough call.

Rook · Post by **Rook** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:20 pm

If you have a lead on missing parts, could you let me know too.
I'd love to find an unshaved cylinder for mine.

On the grips, make certain they're the correct ones. The birdshead Webley MKIII and other variants are a different shape (less curved) than the WG.

Also, if you can't find a cylinder (or for that matter, correct grips), let me know. I can get you resin ones if nothing else.

Russ

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:49 pm

Rook are these the correct grips? At least when I showed them a picture of the gun they said they were.

http://vintagegungrips.net/ao-w44.html

I also saw these but they didn't look as nice as those above ones.
http://www.gungrip.com/detail_G138__19.html

Rook · Post by **Rook** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:56 pm

Yep, those are the correct style. If they offer it, you might want to go for a dark brown color instead of the black.

Cheers,

Russ

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:09 pm

Gee have you talked to a supervisor over there and explained your problem to them? Sometimes someone a little higher on the food chain can really help out.

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:56 am

lantzn wrote:
sithspawn wrote:WOW! You would have been better off saving for a complete WG in the states. At that price you were half way there anyway. If there was a way to get out of this purchase I'd look into it. Better to get a complete gun.
That's exactly what I told them in my response. I'm really waying in on this though because these WGs are very rare and have now skyrocketed in price and most go for $2500-$3500 US, with mints ones at $4500 -$6000 with their accessories. I saw a completed rusted one in the US with an asking price of $1650!
I think the word got out on the new Indy film using these because if you go back a year or so they went for about half that price across the board in the US.
As far as this gun goes it looks to be in pretty decent shape with all markings readable. It's just missing the cylinder and grips. I found repro grips for under $30 and was given a lead in the states for someone who might have the missing parts. So I guess I'll see what I can get the needed parts for and see where I would stand in total cost to have a complete gun, if I go with this purchase. At roughly $870 to get this gun I may still be ahead in the long run. It's a tough call.

The $1,650 rusted gun might be your best bet. I just looked and it's still available. Its been listed since last summer, so chances are it's NOT going anywhere. Just save up the difference and you're good to go. (I know! Easier said then done!) ;-) With what you would spend to refurbish the 870 special you'd be nearly there. Even if you got most of the money and just had to pay a small difference to pay it off Collector's firearms has a layaway policy. Don't know your financial situation, but if you had a credit card you could possibly charge that and pay in installments every month too. Just my helpful 2 cents. ;-)

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:26 am

I've asked the auction house for help in finding a better shipping solution so we'll see what they say.
Since this was purchased by auction, it's not like I can just get a refund if the shipping is still high. I could stand a chance of loosing $300 bucks if I back out.

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:32 am

If it doesn't work out, perhaps you can have the auction house reauction it. At least you'd get something out of it.

Solent MKIII · Post by **Solent MKIII** » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:58 am

HOLY-FREAKIN'-COW. Two guys have to personally babysit it to and from the airport? Sounds like they're transporting weapons-grade uranium instead of a NON-FUNCTIONAL FIREARM. I hope you're able to find the parts you need to complete your WG, lantzn. Looks like you've got a line on the grips - cool. I frequent a couple of gun forums, so I'll keep an eye out in the curio & relic threads for a cylinder, if one pops up ( fingers crossed ).

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:05 am

Any new word on getting your gun?

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:10 am

Talk about crazy gun laws

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:46 am

What ever became of this gun? Did you get the cylinder you were looking for? I've been doing a little research on it and, I believe the MK 1 would be compatible. WG was apparently the civilian model of the MK 1.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:58 pm

The cost of shipping was to high. There would have been additional US charges as well. I left it in England and good riddance. Who knows maybe if the law changes the armory will call and let me know. They probably destroy them after awhile.

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 9:00 am

Probably for the best. Rook just got one, so they are out there. Save up for it and I'm sure one to your liking will turn up.

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:10 am

Pity you could have sold it to a COW member in the UK perhaps?

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:36 am

ANZAC_1915 wrote:Pity you could have sold it to a COW member in the UK perhaps?

That's a thought, I wonder if someone in England can pick it up if I agreed to sell it to them. It's housed in an armory.

Indiana Jake · Post by **Indiana Jake** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:48 am

Sorry to hear about all of these shipping and transfer problems. What a mess

Just my two cents worth on re-blueing. Don't do it. It usually looks like a glossy black finish on a dented old car. you gun will have tiny nicks and scratches giving it character. Best to leave it that way. Some of the restorations I have seen have lost all of the crisp edges and sharp corners from their original manufacture, because someone spent too much time trying to polish a gun. This really ruins the value. The one gunsmith I did meet who did excellent work felt it was necessary to restore all of the sharp edges before reblueing to get the right look.

I wonder if a 45 cal cylinder from another gun could be modified to fit a Webley. Say a Colt or S&W revolver? It will likely need some new bolt notches milled into the end of the cylinder, and the center pin may be a different size. That could be drilled out as well.

Indiana Jake

Rook · Post by **Rook** » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:52 pm

The "star" on the back of the cylinder is a totally different design than that of the Webley,
and how the extractor sits in relation to the... (center pin the cylinder spins on) is also totally different than that of a S&W revolver. The break open shell extraction is whole 'nother animal compared to the side swing out cylinder design.

It may be possible, but I've never put the two of them side by side for comparison.

Unless you're a master machinist, I doubt you could mate the two designs.

Just my .455 worth.

M1917 · Post by **M1917** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:17 pm

As has already been said, the parts for the Webleys are drying up, and the WG's are almost impossible to find, unless you're prepared to spend a king's ransom.

When the Mk VI's were imported into the U.S. in the 1950's, .455 Webley ammo wasn't available. So the importers shaved the ends of the cylinders and sent them out for shooting with .45 acp in half/full moon clips, or .45 autorim rounds. They didn't always match up the cylinders with the proper serial numbered pistols!

I have three weapons that shoot .45 acp/.45 autorim (S&W/Colt M1917, and now my Mk VI). I am on the hunt for an original, unaltered .455 Webley cylinder. These are hard to come by, and very expensive when found. Once I have one, I can have the cylinder fitted so I can swap it out in my revolver.

Good luck pard! I hope you find one! They're too rich for my blood!

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:49 pm

Well it's been over a year since I quietly backed away from having my gun shipped. I just received an email from the company asking me what to do with the gun. Their words were that it would be EXTREMELY expensive (450 pounds = $718!) to have it shipped to me. They also mentioned that they could auction it for me at the next auction.
Nice of them to be selling these without forewarning the US buyers of their little 2 man requirement to drive it to the airport fee.
Crooks as far as I'm concerned.

I asked them if I could have the gun picked up by a local resident to see what they say. Can one of you english gentleman find out what it would cost to "really" ship this to me if it where in private hands or if anyone planning to head to the US could carry it with them?
There just has to be a cheap way to get this to me in the US.

matt black · Post by **matt black** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:36 pm

lantzn wrote:Well it's been over a year since I quietly backed away from having my gun shipped. I just received an email from the company asking me what to do with the gun. Their words were that it would be EXTREMELY expensive (450 pounds = $718!) to have it shipped to me. They also mentioned that they could auction it for me at the next auction.
Nice of them to be selling these without forewarning the US buyers of their little 2 man requirement to drive it to the airport fee.
Crooks as far as I'm concerned.

I asked them if I could have the gun picked up by a local resident to see what they say. Can one of you english gentleman find out what it would cost to "really" ship this to me if it where in private hands or if anyone planning to head to the US could carry it with them?
There just has to be a cheap way to get this to me in the US.

Hi Lantzn,
Where abouts is the gun? If it's not too far I could pick it up or perhaps you could get them to send it to me then I could send it to you. We would have to find out the law on a gun being sent to the U.S from the U.K in case it could be taken by customs. And then of cource there is the fact that you would have to trust me to send it on. Which I can promice you I would do but you don't know me from adam. I can find out a price to send it if you would like.

Rob

shagger999uk · Post by **shagger999uk** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:15 am

For UK members - don't forget you would need a firearms certificate, with the relevant section, to even pick this up from the dealer.

matt black · Post by **matt black** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:10 am

Interesting. I was not aware that you would need a certificate. I do hold a licence for shotguns but that might not cover it. I have purchased deact's before and never had to have any form of licence or certificate. The last one being about five months ago but maybe they have changed the rules since then.

djd · Post by **djd** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:25 am

You don't need a licence for a deactivated gun- if it is properly deactiveated with the relevant certificate. Gun parts would need an export licence to send to the US.

shagger999uk · Post by **shagger999uk** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:02 am

It's not a de-ac - it's simply missing some bits, so still legally a firearm.

djd · Post by **djd** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:07 am

Yes- that was the point I was getting at

matt black · Post by **matt black** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:49 am

Oh sorry. I did'nt realize it was not deactivated.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:22 pm

Well here's what's needed to pick it up for me.

Dear Mr Newberry,
No problem, as long as they are a Section 5 holder, if you would like it to go into the next sale please advise as soon as possible.

So any UK Section 5 holders?

djd · Post by **djd** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:46 am

Section 5 covers prohibited weapons - such as hand guns and machine guns..... These things are now just about impossible to hold legally in the UK. The only weapons that you can legally hold here these days are some rifles and non repeating shotguns.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:41 pm

That's just insane, what a paranoid country. The guys who really WANT to use a gun in a bad way will not be worried about being Section 5 certified and they won't be buying retail.

djd · Post by **djd** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:14 pm

I don't disagree with you

It has made it more difficult for the bad guys to get ammo though- but how many bullets do you need....

It's been this way since a couple of really bad shooting incidents a while back involving licenced firearms

ANZAC_1915 · Post by **ANZAC_1915** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:09 am

Is there some age exception for very old collector firearms in the UK?

I'll be in London next week...

djd · Post by **djd** » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:35 am

I don't think there is as far as I recall. There is an exception for imitation firearms when the gun imitated is pre around 1870... In other worlds you can't make/ import / sell a realistic replica of any gun made after that date.

My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!

My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!

Be careful of buying from England!

Re: My new Webley WG!

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Re: My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!

Re: My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!

Re: My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!

Re: My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!

Re: My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!

Re: My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!

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Re: My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!

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Re: My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!

Re: My new Webley WG! UK COW Members HELP!