Got my Fed IV..... and I don't think it fits :(

JRabbit · Post by **JRabbit** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:34 am

Well, at 8:00 this morning, Christmas eve, the doorbell rang and to my surprise, the postman delivered my first proper Indy fedora!

What perfect timing for my Christmas present to arrive!

I, being a gentleman, waited patiently until my wife woke up before opening it so that she could share in the fun.

After opening the box, my first thought was, wow that's a great looking hat! I carefully unwrapped it and marveled at the quality of the felt.

Then, I put it on my head.

I sat atop my head, resting on the very edge of my forehead, a small touch in the back, and the tops of my ears. A good 80% of the hat simply encircled my head like a halo, with chasms of room on the sides. OH NO

I couldn't believe it, I'd measured so carefully. I quickly grabbed the tape measure and checked again. Yep 57cm. I got my wife to double check, still 57cm. So I looked at the sizing tag on the hat, yep, 57.

Well, they enclosed some foam weather stripping padding to help with sizing, let's not get too discouraged until all options are exhausted. So, I carefully placed the foam stripping in the hat, leaving the adhesive backing covered so as not to forfeit my return option.

With the spacer in place, the hat seems to touch all sided of my head, but it looks ridiculous, like a kid wearing Dad's hat. I know these hats are "big" by design, but this thing engulfs me. Without the foam, I can easily tuck my ears under the band and the hat drops all the way down, I look like Elmer Fudd (My lovely wife made that observation).

I went to Hats Direct and read their suggestion of using water and a blow dryer to shrink the band, but I don't think that's the right move for me. See, the body of the hat is so big that shrinking the band to make it fit will get it to sit on my head, but won't address the scale of the hat. I think I should return the hat, and get a 55, since the 57-56 is their medium, and the 55-54 is their small. I'm hoping the small is smaller in total, not just around the headband.

Any advice from the experts would be GREATLY appreciated. Should I try shrinking it and risk not being able to return it? AM I right to assume that the overall size of the 55 will be smaller?

A.J. Cairo · Post by **A.J. Cairo** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:43 am

I'm sorry to hear about your hat not fitting! I cant think of a worse thing happening after all the anticipation of a new lid! However:

;0

Post by **Indiana Jeff** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:51 am

The proportions of the Indy style fedoras can be daunting when you first put them on your head. I thought my Penman looked like a top hat when I first got it and it was the right size for me. And unbased it will look even bigger. That being said, it sounds like your hat is just too big for you.

I don't know if the Akubra is scaled in relation to the hat size. Hats Direct has a great reputation for customer service so I suggest contacting them directly and ask about the crown height and brim specs for their different size hats.

Regards,

Indiana Jeff

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 12:47 pm

You mentioned the hat touched the front and back of your head but that there was lots of room on both sides. When I visited John Penman (Penman Hat Co.) to have my head measured, he measure my head and gave me a hat to try on that was my size. The same thing happened to me and he immediately said I have a long oval head. He proceeded to make me a hat with this size using a long oval block and the hat fits like a glove all the way around. This is probably the reason most store hats didn't fit me well.
Also as mentioned the Indy hat is a tall hat.

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:12 pm

Sorry the hat doesn't fit you. It would have made a great Christmas present, all things considered. With a hat that large, I'd return it for a size that would fit you better. You may be better off in the long run.

jkdbuck76 · Post by **jkdbuck76** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:54 pm

Hatsdirect has great customer service!

Did you order a size 57? Or a 56?

You might try returning it and trying the next size down.

I had the same issue, but I used a little foam tape in the front instead
of the sides (even though I have a long oval head....if fact, I ordered a 62 since my head looks like Fred Flintsone's).

Over time, the hat did shrink a little and I have had to take scissors and clip a bit of the foam tape out 2 or 3 times now.

But if you are going to exchange it, I CERTAINLY would not bash the hat, or attempt to shrink the sweat or anything.

And it may be that if you order the next size down, that smaller one could be too small.

Some things to consider when measuring: how long is your hair? Did you just get it buzzed high and tight? Second, when the Boss measured your melon, how tight/loose was the tape? This can make a half centimeter's difference.

And the Fed IV is a really boxy hat and it takes some getting used to. The Fed III had some taper to it and it looked smaller. And I must say that when I got my Fed IV Dlx last year, when I bashed it and tried it on, it had reverse taper and I thought it made my head look even bigger than what it already was!

I hope I haven't confused you. Think good and hard about what you are going to do before you do it. Also, if you look at the rough side of the sweatband (not the smooth side that touches your head) you just might see a "57" (or whatever size you ordered) written in black marker. Make sure that number matches the size you ordered.

Good luck and May the Santa Be With You.

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:02 pm

When I first got my Fed IV standard, the front and back touched my head and there was a gap at the sides.

Keep in mind that the hat will fit differently (better for me) after its been bashed. It sort of fits like a pot, out of the box, unbashed.

I put foam tape in the sides, not the back and front. It seems people put tape in the front and back to change the shape of the hat from its regular oval to a long oval, as the OP and myself are.

As I wore the hat, the sweat just naturally shrank to fit my head. I removed the tape from the sides a little at a time, as I felt pressure points, from the shrinkage, that hadnt been there before.

The hat no longer has any tape in it and fits perfectly. I love my Fed IV.

darthbish · Post by **darthbish** » Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:43 pm

scottyrocks6 wrote:When I first got my Fed IV standard, the front and back touched my head and there was a gap at the sides.

Keep in mind that the hat will fit differently (better for me) after its been bashed. It sort of fits like a pot, out of the box, unbashed.

I put foam tape in the sides, not the back and front. It seems people put tape in the front and back to change the shape of the hat from its regular oval to a long oval, as the OP and myself are.

As I wore the hat, the sweat just naturally shrank to fit my head. I removed the tape from the sides a little at a time, as I felt pressure points, from the shrinkage, that hadnt been there before.

The hat no longer has any tape in it and fits perfectly. I love my Fed IV.

Yup...what he said.......

I'd wear it and you'll find it'll shape to your bonce over time

JRabbit · Post by **JRabbit** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:48 pm

OK, I finally got back from all the holiday hoopla, and have a chance to post a few photos.

Here's the gap on the side of my head:

And here it is on my head, un-bashed, and I'm not happy:

I'm thinking I just need to bite the bullet and send it back to Hats Direct for a smaller size. My question is, what size do I ask for? This is a 57, is a 56 just a 57 with filler in between the felt and the head band or is the actual felt smaller? Do I go down to a 55 in order to get a smaller felt? I'll send HD an e-mail with these questions, but would appreciate any insight from y'all.

Thanks

JRabbit

Lightning · Post by **Lightning** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:52 pm

A size smaller is just that, no foam involved. But as was said earlier, they fit snugger after bashing and seem to shink more after that. My Fed 4 that I got in October was loose out of the box, bashing and the foam made it fit and I'm already to the point where I need to take some of the foam out.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:57 pm

Smart man not to bashed the hat until you are sure about the size. The hat is to small for you. I would send it back and get the smaller size. I would have someone measure your head using a good tape measure. Take it about 5 times. Go to their hat size chart and take a look at what the sizes are in inches and go with the closet without going under.

If you need to go with sizing tape. Place them on the sides not the front and back. I still can not understand why people will put the filler in the front and back when the sides have the gap.

JRabbit · Post by **JRabbit** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:07 pm

BendingOak wrote:Smart man not to bashed the hat until you are sure about the size. The hat is to small for you. I would send it back and get the smaller size. I would have someone measure your head using a good tape measure. Take it about 5 times. Go to their hat size chart and take a look at what the sizes are in inches and go with the closet without going under.

If you need to go with sizing tape. Place them on the sides not the front and back. I still can not understand why people will put the filler in the front and back when the sides have the gap.

I think you mean too big for me?

I took measurements of my head the way you describe, and got 57cm dead on each time. I guess I'm just not using an Australian tape measure

Yep, I'm thinking I need a 56cm.

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:08 am

At least you're only dealing with one hat. All of my hats are now too big for me. Granted that I only have 6 hats, but each one is simply too big/loose now. I've tried sizing tape and it helped on a couple of my hats, but not all of them. They just don't fit right anymore.

gwyddion · Post by **gwyddion** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:13 am

Imahomer wrote:At least you're only dealing with one hat. All of my hats are now too big for me. Granted that I only have 6 hats, but each one is simply too big/loose now. I've tried sizing tape and it helped on a couple of my hats, but not all of them. They just don't fit right anymore.

let me get this straight, they fit at first but now they don't?

Did anything change significantly in the hair department since you bought them? If not, I'm amazed as hats usually don't get bigger and skulls don't get smaller with age

JRabbit, If you have the hat on for 5 minutes and take it off, do you have a red line on your forehead? Also, is your head measurement exactly 57cm? My measurement is exactly 61.2 cm and you wouldn't believe how much difference those two millimetres can make.

Regards, Geert

fenris · Post by **fenris** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:07 am

Imahomer wrote:At least you're only dealing with one hat. All of my hats are now too big for me. Granted that I only have 6 hats, but each one is simply too big/loose now. I've tried sizing tape and it helped on a couple of my hats, but not all of them. They just don't fit right anymore.

They stretched or were the hats bigger to begin with?

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:16 am

I will reiterate: If you are a 57 and bought a 57, and it touches the front and back of your head, as is, unbashed, keep it, bash it, tape it, and wear it. A size smaller Fed IV will be too small for you, possibly right out of the box, and almost definitely after you have worn it a while, and it has had the chance to shrink after its off your head overnight (unless you sleep in it

)

Of course, this is only my Fed IV-wearing opinion. ymmv.

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:27 pm

gwyddion wrote:
Imahomer wrote:At least you're only dealing with one hat. All of my hats are now too big for me. Granted that I only have 6 hats, but each one is simply too big/loose now. I've tried sizing tape and it helped on a couple of my hats, but not all of them. They just don't fit right anymore.
let me get this straight, they fit at first but now they don't? Did anything change significantly in the hair department since you bought them? If not, I'm amazed as hats usually don't get bigger and skulls don't get smaller with age

JRabbit, If you have the hat on for 5 minutes and take it off, do you have a red line on your forehead? Also, is your head measurement exactly 57cm? My measurement is exactly 61.2 cm and you wouldn't believe how much difference those two millimetres can make.

Regards, Geert

Sorry, I guess that did sound a little weird, but you hit the nail on the head. My hair significantly changed and I went from a full head of hair to probably about 1/4 of what I had in just a few months.

Mike

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:29 pm

That'll do it! I keep my hair short, and even after a basic trim I can feel a difference. That drastic of a change in hair length will make a difference, indeed.

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:58 pm

and it did do it! Not much I can do about it either.

Mike

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:07 pm

Imahomer wrote:Not much I can do about it either.

Mike

Sure there is. If they are 58s, send 'em to me!!!!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:51 pm

One point on Akubra's....never assume the label inside is the 'last word' on size. Take your tape measure and actually measure the circumference around the inside of the sweatband, THEN determine if the hat is the correct size.

I have said it more than once over the years.....when ordering a Fed, ask them to please physically measure the inside of the hat they're going to ship you, rather than just grabbing a marked box and putting it in the mail. The QC at Akubra is fantastic, but it's been a common thing to find the sizing tends to wander a bit from hat to hat.

I wear a size 59, and in the beginning have had marked Akubra's come in my door that either fit perfectly, sat on the top of my head, or slid over my ears....and all tagged size 59. Since I started requesting a physical measurement be made of the hat to be shipped, I have never had that problem again.

Like I said, NEVER assume.....

If you discover that the measurement is correct, and matches your head measurement, it's not the hat size, but the shape....and you can move forward with the reshaping as advised above. Going 'down a size' won't fix a thing. If it's larger than your supplied head specs, send it back.

There...I've said it again. I'll go back under my blanket now. It's cold here.

Regards! Michaelson

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:56 pm

LOL...

Good information. Thanks Michaelson. BTW... it's cold here too! I'm hiding under the covers myself.

Mike

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:01 pm

Snow expected here tonight, with wind chills by saturday to be -5.

No biggie by Northern standards...as a matter of fact, I'd expect it would be a short sleeve shirt day for our Canadian members

.....but if you consider this is the coldest stretch of weather Tennessee has seen since 1940, and the coldest tempertures over all since 2003....well, having thin blood and the like, it's pretty dang cold around these parts.
We don't like it.

Anyway, back to topic....

Regards! Michaelson

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:09 pm

Has there been any 'fit' issues with other factory fedoras? (Christys, Todds, The Henry, etc)

djd · Post by **djd** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:17 pm

There seems to be a great deal of variation in sizing. My Magnoli HJ was a 60 and a bit too tight. My Henry is a 60 and a little too big. My Uptowner is a 61 and about the same size as my Henry (if anything a little smaller)!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:20 pm

Agreed. Factory made hats are great, but they're all over the radar when it comes to sizing.

That's why (wait for it.....

) I am a HUGE fan of custom made hats whenever it's a possible option.

That said, once an Akubra....ANY Akubra...is correctly sized, it's about as good as you get in terms of a long term factory production hat, considering it's price.

Regards! Michaelson

Imahomer · Post by **Imahomer** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:37 pm

There is something about having a hat made for you, giving input about ribbon color, etc and then putting it on when it's complete. Yup... It's a very nice feeling.

Mike

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:05 pm

Now you're just teasing

I'm on johns wait list for a custom (I have a Henry coming to me soon) but I may have John do a D.Tracy for me instead of an Indy (depending on how happy I am with the Henry).
Only hurdle with the Tracy is availability of the correct shade of yellow...besides that, john is skilled enough to replicate the Tracy fedora no problem.

IndyFan89 · Post by **IndyFan89** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:32 am

Not to thread hijack, but to avoid flooding the boards with Fed IV threads, I where about a 7 5/8s in a ball cap wich is equal on their sizing chart to a size 61 but my last akubra (the federation deluxe) was a 61 and it was just a tad to big. Do you think I should try a size 60?

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:52 am

I stated before but I guess some have missed it, so I will state it again. I have yet to see any hat size chart except for one that was accurate. I would suggest if you are going to buy a hat from anyone. it doesn't matter who. Have someone take your measurements using a good tape measure. Don't do it yourself. take it 5 times so you can be sure of the number. Go to the web site and look at the hat companies hats size chart or contact them and tell them your head measurement and let them size you. DO NOT give a hat size taken form one hat that fits you to another company.

Here are true hat sizes

cm = inches US size

49 cm = 19.29 inches 6 1/8
50 cm = 19.68 inches 6 1/4
51 cm = 20.08 inches 6 3/8
52 cm = 20.47 inches 6 1/2
53 cm = 20.87 inches 6 5/8
54 cm = 21.26 inches 6 3/4
55 cm = 21.65 inches 6 7/8
56 cm = 22.05 inches 7
57 cm = 22.44 inches 7 1/8
58 cm = 22.83 inches 7 1/4
59 cm = 23.23 inches 7 3/8
60 cm = 23.62 inches 7 1/2
61 cm = 24.02 inches 7 5/8
62 cm = 24.41 inches 7 3/4

JRabbit · Post by **JRabbit** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:15 am

Thanks for all the info and advice on this folks.

I got a prompt and really nice reply from HD that asked me to measure my head again, two times. The first time pulling the tape measure as tight as possible, the second pulling the tape measure a little looser, but still relatively tight. I did so and got the following measurements:

Tight = 55.9cm
Less tight = 56cm

I sent these measurements off to HD and their response was that a 57cm hat was the correct size for me. They told me to bash the hat, and assured me that this would not prevent me from being able to return it, and add the sizing tape to the sides of the sweat band. They said to also try shrinking the sides a bit with water as described on their website.

It was late last night before I got a chance to read the e-mail and so I took a stab at bashing the hat to see what would happen. The good news is, after bashing the hat went from an oval to a long oval which better matches the shape of my head. The bad news is, no the hat's a little too big all the way around my head. I didn't have time to add the tape, but I'm sure that will snug it up on my head. I'm just concerned that the hat will still look too big. I've seen many people say that the hat will shrink some, do y'all mean the whole hat, or just the sweat band?

I may be over analyzing all this and just need to bash the thing, add the tape, wet the sides, and wear it. Roll the dice and see what happens. I have the weekend to mess with it and that's my plan. I'll take some shots of it bashed and post them for y'all to critique.

Now, to go watch the hat bashing tutorial videos......

JRabbit.

VP · Post by VP » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:40 pm

I'm a 59.5 and my 60 Federation does the same thing, I suggest stuffing something under the sweatband or trying the lampshade trick.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:51 pm

generalFROSTY wrote:Has there been any 'fit' issues with other factory fedoras? (Christys, Todds, The Henry, etc)

No to derail too much, but.....

There have been a few folks on The Fedora Lounge who have commented that Christy's sizing seems to be off. Being as how I only have one Christy's and it fit me as well as any other "off the rack" hat, I can't personally comment. But there is said to be some variation. I can say from personal experience that both my Fed IV and Christy's are size 56, but both fit very slightly differently, although this is to be expected.

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:17 pm

It ***** hat sizing can't be more accurate from company to company. In a case like this, I guess you have to bit the bullet and order as best you can and send it back for an exchange if it does'nt fit.

JRabbit · Post by **JRabbit** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:03 pm

OK, here's my first attempt at a bash. I added sizing foam to the sides.

I'm still on the fence if this is the right size for me. It lightly fits my head with the sizing tape and the bash, but it's still not as snug as I would like. Any little wind and I'll be sprinting through the parking lot after it, plus it seems so #### big. I hate to go through the hassle of sending it back and getting a 56, only to find a 56 is too small.... I'm usually not one to waffle on stuff like this, but this is an area I'm a complete newb on.

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:10 pm

I think it looks pretty good on you bro - really has that Raiders look. Since you already bashed it, does that mean you can't exchange it?
To me, you seem to be very upset over the size - and John already suggested that it is too big and should be exchanged. I would hate to see you become complacent with it simply because you don't want the hassle of sending it back (I know how that feels).
You could try shrinking it...

JRabbit · Post by **JRabbit** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:18 pm

generalFROSTY wrote:I think it looks pretty good on you bro - really has that Raiders look. Since you already bashed it, does that mean you can't exchange it?
To me, you seem to be very upset over the size - and John already suggested that it is too big and should be exchanged. I would hate to see you become complacent with it simply because you don't want the hassle of sending it back (I know how that feels).
You could try shrinking it...

The sales rep at HD (Jenny) assured me that I could send it back, even after bashing it.

I'm wearing it now, and I think it may just be that I have to get used to wearing a hat with this shape (this is my first Indy Fedora). I'll also keep tweaking the bash, training it to get the right shape will help it look "right" on my head.

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:08 pm

I noticed your hair is cut short. I think once you let that grow out, you should have a better fit.

JRabbit · Post by **JRabbit** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:25 pm

generalFROSTY wrote:I noticed your hair is cut short. I think once you let that grow out, you should have a better fit.

Well.... no such luck that's the long look for me.

I've gotten in the habit of shaving my face and head on Sunday, then just let it all grow out throughout the week, only shaving my neck to keep from looking TOO scruffy. The wife likes the look, and it's pretty low maintenance. Kind of a "Transporter" look.

Long John Tinfoil · Post by **Long John Tinfoil** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:27 pm

It looks good to me, and it will tighten up some. If you're not used to wearing larger hats (western hats, etc.) it will take a while to get used to seeing yourself in a mirror or a store window. Don't sweat it. Wear it and make it your own.

LJ

VP · Post by VP » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:39 pm

generalFROSTY wrote:I noticed your hair is cut short. I think once you let that grow out, you should have a better fit.

IMO fedoras are best worn with shorter hair. That way you don't get hat hair and a custom sweatband fits you like a glove.

If you're aiming for a Raiders look the bash still needs some work.

jlee562 · Post by **jlee562** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:43 pm

generalFROSTY wrote:It ***** hat sizing can't be more accurate from company to company. In a case like this, I guess you have to bit the bullet and order as best you can and send it back for an exchange if it does'nt fit.

True, but one also has to consider that different clothing companies have different standards for waist size, shoe companies all have slight variations too, at least in my experience.

JRabbit · Post by **JRabbit** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:13 pm

VP wrote:
generalFROSTY wrote:I noticed your hair is cut short. I think once you let that grow out, you should have a better fit.
IMO fedoras are best worn with shorter hair. That way you don't get hat hair and a custom sweatband fits you like a glove.

If you're aiming for a Raiders look the bash still needs some work.

I agree on the hat hair thing VP.

What are some things I should do differently on the bash? The only part of the raiders look I don't want is the turn.

JR

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:00 pm

JRabbit, Can you take your measurements in inches for me?

JRabbit · Post by **JRabbit** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:13 am

BendingOak wrote:JRabbit, Can you take your measurements in inches for me?

I'm getting 22 inches.

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:22 am

Hey that's my size! Now I don't feel so alone...

VP · Post by VP » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:43 am

JRabbit wrote:What are some things I should do differently on the bash? The only part of the raiders look I don't want is the turn.

Deeper top dent with more pointy front and back, tighter front crease that goes almost all the way to the ribbon, deeper side bashes. And trying to balance between those features and straight sides, something that isn't easy to pull off with an Akubra.

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:01 pm

VP - I like the way your hat looks in your avatar photo - what hat are you wearing and did you bash it yourself?

VP · Post by VP » Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:39 pm

Adventurebilt, trimmed the brim with scissors and bashed myself. Big pic: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/I ... -12-12.jpg

generalFROSTY · Post by **generalFROSTY** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:48 am

Why did you have to trim the brim?