RAIDERS and TOD GAS MASK BAG ?

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:11 am

The Raiders bag has the loop on the side unlike any bag I have ever seen. Anyone figure out what it is? How long? Anyone have real good closeup PICS?

While on the subject of bags can anyone tell me about the TOD bag that was auctioned by Butterfield and Butterfield in '94. Could it have been used as a STUNT bag on the film rather than the HERO? I've got close up PICS of HF from the film and the bag has the longer side loop. The W+G has a real short loop. I'd like to know the reason for the difference.

Cannuck_Indy_Fan · Post by **Cannuck_Indy_Fan** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:15 am

side loop, are you talking about the loop that the string ties on to?

e

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:34 am

Cannuck_Indy_Fan wrote:side loop, are you talking about the loop that the string ties on to?

e

Yes. Didn't know by what term to call it.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:07 pm

Well two different bags were used for TOD. One was the traditional MKVII and the SFX bag used for the bag catching on fire was the 3-holed MKVI.

Kyle

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:55 am

knibs7 wrote:Well two different bags were used for TOD. One was the traditional MKVII and the SFX bag used for the bag catching on fire was the 3-holed MKVI.

Kyle

I know about that?

I was wondering about the bag that was auctioned in '94. A W@G has a real short loop. If you look at the bag in the film and in PICS you can see the loop is longer like most people have on their bags. I wanted someone to confirm if the W+G was perhaps used as a stunt bag rather than a HERO bag.

I also was curious about the ROTLA loop as it is longer than we normally see.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:21 am

When you say 'longer' do you mean larger diameter?

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:23 am

Here's a PIC to illustrate what I am talking about with the RAIDERS bag.

Notice the circled area. That is not the typical loop you would find on MK VII bags. On the W+G bag it only comes out 1/4 inch at the most. On all other bags I've seen the loop is 1/2.

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:35 am

OK thanks. That loop size varies some with every bag.
Personally I wouldn't worry about it unless it was very short or not there.

sam · Post by **sam** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:17 pm

Sithspawn, I know what you're talking about! I am blessed to have several MK VII's from several different makers, and none of them are this long. It's almost like the Raiders bag was a fluke in regards to the loop. I've wondered the same thing about the W&G- maybe the one that was sold was a stunt bag, because I have yet to see any W&G with a loop the size of the one in Temple. The other question I have, is what color is it? It's hard to see. Some bags (probably most) have a tan color, while others come in an off white/straw color. It's just hard to see in the pictures to me. I think the LC/CS bag had the tan color, but I'm not absolutely certain. In some pictures it looks green! (Maybe that would be due to the off white/straw color taking on dirt?) I think Temple was the same tan color. But Raiders? I can't tell. Maybe someone could post a larger picture of that shot where Harrison is sitting in the chair on the streets of Cairo. Can anyone clarify some of this? Sithspawn, I'm really interested in this too. I would love to know who the original manufacturers were for the various film bags. My favorites are the LC/CS bag and the Raiders bag.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:27 pm

Here

Kyle

sam · Post by **sam** » Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:37 pm

Thanks, Kyle! Two things from this picture- at first glance I would guess the loop is the tan color, but then looking again, it seems it could be the off/white straw color that has just naturally darkened/stained as it's been distressed, rolled around in the dirt. Kyle, I know you're a bit of an expert in this area, so I would love to hear your opinion!

Secondly, about the size of the loop- When you get an original MK VII, it has the original strap attached to it, and the strap has a larger loop. Sometimes I've wondered (and I know this is a bit far fetched) if perhaps the original loop fell off or got ripped, and they replace it with this larger loop, since this loop seems to be the size of the one on the Raiders bag. They would have replaced the torn loop for sake of continuity with stunt bags or other bags used. This may be reading way too much into it though, even though it would explain the abnormal loop length.

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:47 am

I was thinking the same thing. Unless this bag was some weird variation I'd say they must have put on a longer loop. All the bags I have seen have been the same length except the W+G. Anyone know where one could get the loop material outside of getting an original strap? Perhaps I could retrofit a longer loop on one of my bags.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:43 pm

Here is one of my bags. It looks to me like it is the same length as the string in the photos. Any thoughts?

Kyle

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:30 pm

Looks pretty close to me. What make is that one, Kyle?

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:59 pm

What is the length of that loop?

sam · Post by **sam** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:38 pm

Kyle, that looks dead on in length to me! (By the way, that's the off-white/straw color I was talking about). Like Satipo, I'm curious who the maker was. I have a guess, but I would love to know! Thanks for posting the pic!

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:51 pm

sam,
Post your guess and then I'll let you know the answer

Kyle

sam · Post by **sam** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:55 pm

My guess is that it's a Whitley's...did I choos "wisely?"

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:55 pm

Kyle, is it a Todd's?

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:41 pm

No and No. Any other guesses?

Kyle

sam · Post by **sam** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:27 am

RMA? By the way, does this bag of yours with the great loop also have the smooth snaps? If so, you have one great Raiders bag, man!

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 2:31 am

Wrong again. It's an M & Co. 1942 and yes it has smooth snaps.

Kyle

Cannuck_Indy_Fan · Post by **Cannuck_Indy_Fan** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 7:26 am

as per knowing what manufactures bag was used in each movie, has that level of detail ever been determined?

e

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:22 am

It doesn't have D rings does it?

Satipo · Post by **Satipo** » Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:08 pm

The one pictured on this page seems to have a long loop too.

http://www.elstreeprops.com/page15.php

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:36 am

Right now i'm checking Soldier Of Fortune. They have the M+ CO bags. Just sent an inquiry with a PIC. Hopefully i'll hear something.

UPDATE: I heard back from SOF. I placed an order. They checked and they had bags that resembled the description and the PIC I sent. I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

Hopefully they send the correct one and we're good to go.

sam · Post by **sam** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:23 pm

I have a M & Co bag and it's one of my favorites! It has a different colored and shorter loop than Kyle's though. The folks at Soldier of Fortune have done pretty good by me, Sithspawn, so I hope it's a good experience for you. Just realized I should clarify that I didn't get the M & Co from them though. If I had asked for the specifics you did, I have no doubt that they would do their best to match them.

Hey, Kyle, does your M & Co have the little metal eyelet on the inside near the top? Mine does, in fact I got it because of that, since the one in LC/KotCS had it. I know that even the same maker will sometimes have it, sometimes not, so I'm curious. Sithspawn, please let us know if yours has it when it comes in! I've tried to zoom in at the beginning of Raiders when Indy is putting the sandbag in his MK VII, but I can't tell if the Raiders bag had the eylet or not. Thanks for helping my curiosity!

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:16 am

If it's the correct bag i'll post PICS. Watched all the bag shots from RAIDERS last night and I don't think you can see an eyelet. I'll look again. What size D rings should I get?

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:16 pm

sam wrote: Hey, Kyle, does your M & Co have the little metal eyelet on the inside near the top? Mine does, in fact I got it because of that, since the one in LC/KotCS had it. I know that even the same maker will sometimes have it, sometimes not, so I'm curious. Sithspawn, please let us know if yours has it when it comes in! I've tried to zoom in at the beginning of Raiders when Indy is putting the sandbag in his MK VII, but I can't tell if the Raiders bag had the eylet or not. Thanks for helping my curiosity!

Do you have any pics of the eyelet from CS? BC I haven't been able to find a metal eyelet on the CS bag.

Kyle

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:44 pm

knibs7 wrote:
sam wrote: Hey, Kyle, does your M & Co have the little metal eyelet on the inside near the top? Mine does, in fact I got it because of that, since the one in LC/KotCS had it. I know that even the same maker will sometimes have it, sometimes not, so I'm curious. Sithspawn, please let us know if yours has it when it comes in! I've tried to zoom in at the beginning of Raiders when Indy is putting the sandbag in his MK VII, but I can't tell if the Raiders bag had the eylet or not. Thanks for helping my curiosity!
Do you have any pics of the eyelet from CS? BC I haven't been able to find a metal eyelet on the CS bag.

Kyle

The scene where you can see the eyelet is in LC where Indy is on the storm tossed Coronado. Panama reaches into Indys bag to get the cross and you see it on one of the inner pockets.

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:26 pm

Oh ok I thought you meant that you had specifically seen it in CS- that's why I was confused. I don't remember seeing it on the bag that I got to inspect from CS, so it was probably a repro. But ya, mine doesn't have the eyelet on the top.

Kyle

sam · Post by **sam** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:49 pm

Kyle, we don't see the eyelet on the CS bag in the movie, but if you check out David James' photgraphic chronicle book, there's a shot of Indy at the beginning, leaning over next to the car at Hangar 51, and his bag is open, the flap flopped over. You can see the eyelet in that picture. I do not have the book, but just ordered it last night. That's very interesting that the bag you saw didn't have it. It could be really easy to miss, since it's not very big. Kyle, I've wondered if the repos that are mentioned on the DVD were actually real, newly made repos, or if they just found vintage bags that matched the original as closely as possible? If they did make new repos, man, we ought to find out who made them for the movie! I would certainly want to buy one!

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:06 pm

Ya I see it now

The bag I saw probably did have it, but I just wasn't looking for it. The "repro" bags in CS were probably real bags, just not the ones used in previous films.

Kyle

sam · Post by **sam** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:07 am

Hey, guys! Check out the picture of Vic behind the scenes in Temple in the "Magnoli pants comparison with officer's pinks" thread. His bag seems to be a W&G, because I can't make out the loop! I'm sure it has one, but it must be the tiny W&G loop, because I can't see it in the picture. So, maybe there's something to the theory that the auction W&G bag was the stunt bag. Let me know if I'm seeing this wrong, guys!
The only potential problem that I see with this theory is that it's been said that Vic wore the same outfit throughout all the first three movies. So, does that mean the same MK VII too? I wish somebody here that knows Vic could ask him. He always seemed like such a cool guy in the background and making of footage!

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:19 am

If I may venture an opinion; I always felt the Streets of Cairo bag looked bigger as a whole than other bags. I vaguely recall a thread dedicated to that argument, complete with all the drawn-in lines and squiggles on the screen caps to prove it wasn't. Still I'm not 100% convinced that the SoC bag is an original bag. Some part of me believes it was just a repro that had some off measurements. Maybe it was a vintage repro... I mean it's not like reproduction militaria is a new idea.

sam · Post by **sam** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:27 am

That's interesting. I would love to see that thread. The bag in the picture above, where Harrison is sitting in the chair, always looked big to me, but I just figured it was the angle. I've found that even among original bags, some are slightly, just slightly bigger than others, or at least look that way.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:35 am

There are variations, yes. But this particular bag always struck me as going beyond the normal size variant. I mean, HF is not a small guy. A MK VII just shouldn't look that big next to him, in my estimation. I've been to Indy summits and I've seen lots of bags - full and empty. None have seemed that big.

sam · Post by **sam** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:07 am

Yeah, I've thought the same thing looking at a lot of the shots from SOC, but I just went and tried an experiment. I'm the same size as Harrison, maybe 1/2 and inch or so taller. Same general build, same general sizes. I put on one of my go to MK VII's, and imitating the pics, it looked the same in the mirror size wise as the pics. So, I think some of these things are just angles. But, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, and would love to know it. It would be cool to see a slightly bigger MK VII, especially if the center divider could be taken out if the bag were big enough to stash a whip in. When hiking in the backwoods, it's fine to have the whip strapped on. On trails where you might actually bump into other folks, it's better to have the whip stashed away so as not to scare 'em! They don't may not know how nice us Indy folks are!

Digger4Glory · Post by **Digger4Glory** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:57 am

When all these bags were produced, they were made in mass quantities. There were specs to work within. With many vendors from many different countries cranking these out. It is always possible that a load of rejects that may have been off spec (larger) and which never made it to the field, were found and used for the film. After all, they are gas mask bags and the character does not use it as such.

Lucas and the gang were looking to complete a look for the character with their own specs in mind. A look they did so well, we all are checking these same specs out!

The quest for SA and just getting the right specs goes on with us!

Cannuck_Indy_Fan · Post by **Cannuck_Indy_Fan** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:58 am

my W + G's loop is literally big enough to put the string through and that's all ...

e

djd · Post by **djd** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:07 am

My Magnoli reps like that too - but the two originals I had both had a bigger loop. Just think it varies from maker to maker...

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:37 am

sam wrote:Hey, guys! Check out the picture of Vic behind the scenes in Temple in the "Magnoli pants comparison with officer's pinks" thread. His bag seems to be a W&G, because I can't make out the loop! I'm sure it has one, but it must be the tiny W&G loop, because I can't see it in the picture. So, maybe there's something to the theory that the auction W&G bag was the stunt bag. Let me know if I'm seeing this wrong, guys!
The only potential problem that I see with this theory is that it's been said that Vic wore the same outfit throughout all the first three movies. So, does that mean the same MK VII too? I wish somebody here that knows Vic could ask him. He always seemed like such a cool guy in the background and making of footage!

The bag is in shadows and too indistinct to say what kind of loop is on the bag.

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:52 am

Got the bag yesterday and the loop is only 1/8 of an inch longer than my other bag. Looks like No DICE. It has a eyelet on the inside though. Looks more like a LC/CS bag.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:16 pm

Tundrarider wrote:I guess I'm a goober. I just checked my WPG authentic bag out of curiosity after reading this thread. My loop still has the original string attached and tucked in the pocket.

Have I have been strutting around, unknowingly committing the most horrendous Indy Gear faux pas imaginable????

Michael

I read somewhere that the string was suppose to secure to yourself to keep the bag from flying around. How does this secure to you?

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:46 pm

LOL you just said "goober"

Kyle

knibs7 · Post by **knibs7** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:48 pm

lantzn wrote:

I read somewhere that the string was suppose to secure to yourself to keep the bag from flying around. How does this secure to you?

The bag was originally worn around the neck and the string was tied around the metal disc.

Kyle

Cannuck_Indy_Fan · Post by **Cannuck_Indy_Fan** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:28 pm

I'm keeping the string attached, its to cool not to, plus its twice my age, so i'm gonna respect it!

e

Division 6 · Post by **Division 6** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:56 pm

The bag thread pinned at the top of the page has a few photos of how it was originally worn.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=37699
I also noticed it yesterday while watching Victory at Sea showing the troops on Gibraltar.

However it is seen slung at side in the movie Battle of Britain.

D6

Division 6 · Post by **Division 6** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:57 pm

Cannuck_Indy_Fan wrote:I'm keeping the string attached, its to cool not to, plus its twice my age, so i'm gonna respect it!

e

+1

sam · Post by **sam** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:16 pm

Sithspawn, sorry you didn't get the Raiders bag you were hoping for, but congratulations on the LC/CS bag! That's a keeper!