New Raiders Block vs. Akubra Camp Draft

[Yojimbo Jones]

I thought I'd show you guys a bit of a project I've been working on for the last little bit. I've been doing a fair bit of research into the Raiders block, analysing old blocks both on the net and in person, scouring antique shops here in Australia and in NZ. Talking to hatters about what would have constituted the "Australian model" fedora, etc. and checking out their stuff. From that, I drew up plans to the millimetrea and created a block that in theory should yield "the" block. But of course, people have been saying that for years, right?

Anyway, long story short, I threw my old & well-worn Akubra Camp Draft onto the block as a test run to see what I got. It was really badly tapered and had a ton of dome and not much crown height. The most I could push it onto the block was 4", not the needed 4.5". Before and afters below. I gave it a turn and a does of an SoC look as this will be my beater hat. I didn't go all the way with this as I still want to wear it in relatively polite company.

Before:


After:






Clearly despite giving it a really shallow top, it's short by about 8mm or so, but there's only so much felt to go round given my brim was already a tad narrow. I have already blocked down a Christys on it and it has resulted in a taller crown, but I am waiting on a new sweatband and ribbon for that hat. (Don't ask.) So I am looking forward to having a bash at that thinner, more SA felt, and will show you the results.

Thoughts?

[Fedora]

I think you are off to a good start. I spent several years working on the Raiders blockshape, and it never helped the quest when I found out several different blocks would get pretty close. I have several vintage blocks that are a little different, but all yield a pretty good Raiders fedora.

On my last bit of the quest, I sanded down a 360 to incorporate what I have learned over the years regarding this blockshape. The final result matched almost exactly a vintage block I had on hand, but never used. So, I had the vintage block replicated, as it was a better made block than my hand sanded one. And my own quest ended. Basically all you need is a block with a small dome, flattish, and a little front and back taper, with just a tad of taper on the sides, to keep it from being too boxy. And, you still don't see many factory hats with this blockshape, that was pretty common years ago. With the right felt, you are set. Because in the end, it's the interplay between the block and the right felt that makes a Raiders fedora, film accurate. If the Raiders fedora had used the same felt as TLC, you wouldn't see the same hat. The felt is very important in the final look, except the outside the temple hat. That's a new looking hat with little distressing artificial or natural. And pretty much shows us what that block was, originally. The felt then morphed into what most consider to be the Raiders fedora. Where I made my early mistake was trying to make a block that yielded all the looks, when in fact, there was a big variable involved. The felt! And I went around in circles for a few years, because of this. The lightbulb finally came on though. Fedora

[DR Ulloa]

So your final Raiders block is a vintage block? Very cool! I have to say, that I love your new Raiders block. I am going to have to get me one of your rabbit Raiders hats soon because I really truly love the look.

Dave

[albert jones]

what its better to get this nice bash water or steam?
thanks

[crismans]

Very good start, Yojimbo. The hat is very much improved and I can certainly see a Raiders hat in there.

[Indiana Bugs]

what its better to get this nice bash water or steam?
thanks

Im no pro, but I prefer distilled water from a spray bottle.

[Yojimbo Jones]

Thanks for the comments guys.

Steve - Yes, the style of block you describe is the one I've made. (I've been taking note when you discussed this in the past ) What I'm not sure about is whether I've got the degrees of each element correct and in what ratio to each other. ...and how X adjustment will affect Y. But that's where all the fun is, huh? But when you say a tad of taper on the sides, are you talking like 1/8 of an inch or something more noticeable?

Albert - With my Akubra, I don't baby it so just use warm water straight out of the tap. It's a REALLY thick, resilient felt.

Crismans - As long as it's in there somewhere!

[Fedora]

Talking to hatters about what would have constituted the "Australian model" fedora, etc.

For years this was a good topic for discussion, when Deborah. N. said it was their Australian model(in reference to the Raiders HJ)

Then, this year, I think it was, we found out from an interview with her, that what she meant was, the only hat in the HJ shop at the time with enough crown and brim to use to make her vision of the Raiders fedora was an Aussie slouch type hat with the wide brim, pinned up on one side. So, using that as the clay, Swales worked on it, cutting the brim down to the specs she wanted and made the prototype for what was to follow. The hat had air vent holes in the crown, and she requested the copies not to have them.

I have always wondered if that first hat she took with her, in her personal luggage to France to begin filming was the prototype, since she said she had only one hat at that point in time. The ribbon would have probably covered the holes up.

What I'm not sure about is whether I've got the degrees of each element correct and in what ratio to each other. ...and how X adjustment will affect Y. But that's where all the fun is, huh? But when you say a tad of taper on the sides, are you talking like 1/8 of an inch or something more noticeable?

Yep, that is where the fun comes in! Because, the point at which the hat starts the taper on the block is important. Just how far up, if any, do you go to start the taper? Or, does the taper start at the very bottom of the block?

Then at what point, measured from the bottom of the block, does the radius start? All of this is important. I suggest trial and error. That's how I did it. And it is a great learning experience, because you learn how small nuances affect the final look of the hat.

On the taper issue, the front and back are not the same as what you see on the sides. On the sides, I have found that anything 1/4 an inch and larger is just too much, because it will not vanish when you put the creases into the hat. So, anything from 1/16ths to 3 1/16ths, per side is what I find works well.

My own studies of the Raiders block have told me some taper is involved, because I can reference my CS blocks and compare by film, the Raiders fedora and the CS fedora. The comparison told me the Raiders block had some taper built into the block, and that it morphs from a regular oval on the bottom to a round oval on the crown. The classic fedora block shape.

The devil is in the details. That is, where you start the taper, and also where the radius starts that forms the tip of the crown.

Then there is the front and back taper, and where this breaks to form the radius that becomes the tip, or top of the crown. I have found that there is taper in the front and back too. It has to be there in order for the regular oval bottom to morph into the round oval tip of the crown. If the block is straight up, on the front and back, you get a true reverse taper, that is NOT what the Raiders fedora had. The reverse taper we see in the SOC hat is caused by bulging felt, and not the blockshape. True reverse taper is not seen in the Raiders fedora. It's a caricature that some of us have put into the block. To mimic the bulge in back. But, it is inaccurate to the film hat. But I have seen some old films that had this true reverse taper on the back of the hat, which means the block used for those hats was straight up, front and back. Fedora

[Fedora]

So your final Raiders block is a vintage block?

Well, kinda sort. Once I found I had a vintage block that was ALMOST identical to what I had just made, I used the vintage block to have replicated, and then sanded a couple areas to yield what I had hand made. So, my block is actually a modified vintage block. I have to change a couple of things on them, but it is easier this way, for me. And, it also makes sure, Lamode doesn't accidently sell my blocks he has on file for me. If he slips up and does, what he sells is not my final block, it's my starting point. Not that my block is any better than say, LLS's, it is just "my work" and is therefore a little different than others. So, my hats should always look just a little different, good or bad from other hatters. That's what I am after. I don't want to sell carbon copies of what is sold here by other guys. No fun in that, AND, I want to remain different, as I started out as being. It's an ego deal.

With this said, I think each of us have our own personal vision of what the Raiders fedora was, so you are buying a hatter's opinion of that hat. We don't all see it exactly the same. And that is good, because you get some variety, and personal visons of this hat.

The CS block is the same, a vintage block, that I modify. The gray travel hat block is a pure stock vintage block. No changes on it. Just wanted to clear this up. Fedora

[DR Ulloa]

Very cool. I thought the CS block was a stock vintage block as well. You learn something new everyday.

I love the fact that all the custom hatters on here have their own vision of what the Raiders hat is. I can definately tell the difference between your hats, John's, and David's, and its not just how you guys make your bows and crease your hats. This is great, I think. It gives everyone a chance to get a hat that is closer to what they see on screen as our opinions vary as much as you guys, the hatters, do.

Dave

[Fedora]

I thought the CS block was a stock vintage block as well.

I had actually did a bit of sanding on that block prior to me sending it in as a different sample. But, very minimal as I had just started to work on it. Nothing drastic, so still very close to the stock one. It involved mostly softening up the break where the sides become the crown. It was a bit too sharp, in its stock state. And a bit on the front and back, addressing the same issue. It was intended to be a future Raiders block, as it was almost a 360, as recieved. So, a perfect piece of clay to use at the time. After it was picked, I of course, just had it replicated, with my tiny bit of tweaking still there. And not enough tweaking to amount to much. So, while tweaked, it is more stock than it is a different block than what it originally was. But, the tweaks can be seen, if you knew what it looked like prior.

As most know, Marc and I were pushing straight sided blocks for Indy 4. We just did not want another tapered TOD fedora in the film. The CS block is even straighter sided than the Raiders block we sent in. I was surprised when he picked the tweaked "fedora" block. I was just covering our bases at the time. And had to tweak the other vintage blocks I had, that thankfully was in the size ranges used for the film. But, I could also have had my blockmaker replicate any size within a week, if we needed sizes of blocks I did not have. I had only 3 of these CS blocks at the time. So, I was a bit nervous he would need a hat that was out of the range of the sizes I had. Providence was on our side, though. I had a size 7, a 7 1/4, and a 7 5/8. I could use the 7 for a 7 and a 7 1/8. The 7 1/4 would make a 7 1/4, and also a 7 3/8, and the 7 5/8(actually was between a 7 1/2 and a 7 5/8 in circumference, could be used for those two hat sizes. So, those 3 blocks would cover 6 sizes. And these are the most common sizes for hats today. Otherwise, I would have never sent in what was to become the CS hat. Fedora

[Yojimbo Jones]

Time to re-fire up the sander!

Could someone give me a rundown on what a 360 block is? I've done a search, and can only find references to a 360 stovepipe, but no actual context of what the "360" means...

[gwyddion]

Time to re-fire up the sander!

Could someone give me a rundown on what a 360 block is? I've done a search, and can only find references to a 360 stovepipe, but no actual context of what the "360" means...

AFAIK a 360 block is a block that is a stovepipe (meaning no taper at all) all the way around. So it goes "straight up" on all 360 degrees of its circumference.

Regards, Geert

[Dalexs]

Sort of like this...

[Indiana Bugs]