hat block question

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:43 pm

I acquired a block and flange a while ago that I havent used yet. Its an old one, a #52, in my size (7 3/8).

I bought it because I had been toying with the idea of getting a hold of an old western and doing a conversion. I've replaced a couple of sweats, liners and ribbons, and have a pretty good handle on how to do these nicely.

So what I want to know is, is it proper to post pictures of hat blocks here? I ask because blocks seem to be one of those 'closely guarded secrets' of the Raiders hat making/modifying world. A number of you have written that you have been working on, and achieving, better and better Raiders blocks, but none have been shown, I am guessing because of the 'secret' aspect of being able to turn out a product that is better than anyone else's. We share info, but there is always a limit, as there is in most industries.

I'd like to know from those in-the-know if they think my block is the right shape to begin to turn out a SA Raiders fedora. If the consensus is that its ok to post pics of my block, then I will do so, and then await your opinions of it.

Many thanks to any and all who take the time to respond.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:51 pm

Post the block! It's only a secret to those wanting to keep it as such. Also, some blocks around here are custom made and exclusive blocks, so those are understandably protected. But vintage or typical modern blocks, post away! There's no secret about the #52, other than that one hatter's #52 might actually be a bit different than another hatter's #52.

WalkingEye · Post by **WalkingEye** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 11:27 pm

Show the pics. i've seen a couple of #52's come up on ebay that could make a good Indy hat.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:54 am

My old 51 block makes a great Raiders hat. I'd love to see how similar these two are.

Dave

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:10 am

Okay, great, I'll post some pics of it with dimensions when I get home today.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:07 am

Some 52's are really close. SOME. So is a Columbia, a number 3, a number 1, a 937, a 952, 547, a 59, a 25, etc. And probably a horde of others that I don't own. But, the numbers don't mean much, because each blockmaker had numbers, and they did not coincide with other blockmaker's numbers. Therein is the problem.

Use to drive me nuts.

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:53 pm

Okay guys, here it is. The block is 5 3/4" high from the bottom to the top of the center. On the bottom, from left to right, is carved 54, 7 3/8, 52:

Here it is from the side, straight on, and then from a slight elevation:

Here it is from the front (or back), first from straight on, and then from a slight elevation:

So, what do you guys think? Decent Raiders block? If not, anything I can do to modify it?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:12 pm

If you're thinking of modifying it, send it to me before you harm that block!

RCSignals · Post by **RCSignals** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:15 pm

I wouldn't modify it. duplicate it then modify the duplicate

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:17 pm

What he said. Then send me the original block.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:25 pm

If you want a block replicated. I know a guy that does fantastic work.

Indiana MarkVII · Post by **Indiana MarkVII** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:27 pm

I place a bid higher than you, Bink. Let the auction begin.

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:35 pm

So I take it you guys think this is a worthwhile Raiders block. If it doesnt need modification, I will not touch it.

This is the hat I want to reblock into a Raiders:

The hat is huge. When I got it, it had a huge stovepipe crown and was 2 sizes too small on me. Ive recreased it a couple of times, and stretched it to the point that the hat is bulged at the sweat line (this is the main reason I want to reblock it. Its kind of a novelty, being so over-the-top big). The brim is 4 inches. Thick felt. Slightly thicker than my Fed IV.

I figure I can strip it down and reblock it, and have plenty of brim left for a generous dimensional brim - maybe 3" front and back, and 2 7/8" on the sides.

The ribbon is too wide, though, for a Raiders. Its 1 15/16", so Ill need some new ribbon.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:06 pm

Indiana MarkVII wrote:I place a bid higher than you, Bink. Let the auction begin.

How do you plan on paying for it?

Scotty, I'm glad you'll leave the block as is.

That hat looks to be a worthwhile experiment, too, though I have to admit I kinda like it as is.

Indiana MarkVII · Post by **Indiana MarkVII** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 9:20 pm

OK, Bink, you called my bluff. I've been out of work for nearly 14 months, so I don't have the funds to buy a block.

That 4" brim is exactly what leading dermatologists recommend for sun protection. It shades your face and your neck. I'd recommend keeping this one as is and investing in a real Raiders fedora that won't need so much rebuilding. Then, you can store your Raiders fedora on the block to retain its' sizing and shape if you ever get it wet.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:26 pm

Tell you what, Mark, I'll share the block.

Scotty, I'll be interested to see anything you pull off that block, even if it's not 100% Raiders.

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:35 pm

Indiana MarkVII wrote:OK, Bink, you called my bluff. I've been out of work for nearly 14 months, so I don't have the funds to buy a block.

That 4" brim is exactly what leading dermatologists recommend for sun protection. It shades your face and your neck. I'd recommend keeping this one as is and investing in a real Raiders fedora that won't need so much rebuilding. Then, you can store your Raiders fedora on the block to retain its' sizing and shape if you ever get it wet.

I am going to reblock this one, mainly because it has always been small on me, unless I keep a jack in it, which is a pain and unnecessary. And it looks pushed out, especially at the back.

When I push the crown up into an unbashed position, its 6" from the bottom of the ribbon of the top of the hat center. Given I want to make the hat 2 sizes bigger, the extra height may give me the extra width I need (existing 7 1/8 up to 7 3/8) to reblock it and leave the brim as is. Does this make sense?

I just now recreased the top into a more Raiders look (not the above pic).

Rick, I will definitely post pics of whatever I pull off this block.

WalkingEye · Post by **WalkingEye** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:06 am

That has to be one of the craziest hats i've ever seen! i love it. kind of looks like a caricature of a Tom Baker Dr. Who hat. Yes with a 6 inch crown and 4 inch brim you'll be able to block it up a size or two and still have enough brim for an indy fedora. though, as is, it is a neat hat in its own right.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:30 am

That block would make a Raiders fedora. Give her a go and show us the hat once you reblocked it. Going by the looks of it, it would make a decent CS fedora too.

Okay guys, here it is. The block is 5 3/4" high from the bottom to the top of the center. On the bottom, from left to right, is carved 54, 7 3/8, 52:

On American blocks those numbers, generally mean, the block number, the size and the crown height. But, the 52 does not look to be a crown height. On some blocks, it is reversed, the first number (left to right) is the crown height, the middle, the hat size, and the last the block number. Perhaps they had a coded number for crown height, if this is a non American block. And either the 52, or the 54 is the coded number. Or, one of these numbers may have been a personal number for a custom hat, for one customer. I have never seen numbers like these, with the crown height not stated in inches, or cm.

Another thing is that it may have originally been a 54, and a long time ago, someone sanded it,and changed it to a 52 block shape, which would explain the gap between the 5 and the 2. It is pitted to the right of the 52 and unclear to my eye.

As I said, I think you would be real pleased if you used it for a Raiders fedora. It does not match my own set of 52's though. But we have talked about different numbers used by different blockmakers. No consistency at all. One blockmaker's 52 may be another's 25, etc. Fedora

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:56 am

WalkingEye wrote:That has to be one of the craziest hats i've ever seen!

No doubt! And even from the side, there's something bizarrely cool about it.

jbbowers · Post by **jbbowers** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:19 am

Man, I can't believe you missed this one, Steve!

If you look closely, you'll see the 54 is actually the fraction 5 3/4, which is the height scottyrocks6 gave us. The 3 and the solidus (fraction bar) are obscured by damage, but you can just make them out. This happens all the time on ebay, the sellers misread the numbers if they are damaged, which sometimes means taking a gamble based on a gut feeling.

Brad

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:05 pm

jbbowers wrote:Man, I can't believe you missed this one, Steve!

If you look closely, you'll see the 54 is actually the fraction 5 3/4, which is the height scottyrocks6 gave us. The 3 and the solidus (fraction bar) are obscured by damage, but you can just make them out. This happens all the time on ebay, the sellers misread the numbers if they are damaged, which sometimes means taking a gamble based on a gut feeling.

Brad

Wow, Ill have to take a look at that when I get home.

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:06 pm

WalkingEye wrote:That has to be one of the craziest hats i've ever seen! i love it. kind of looks like a caricature of a Tom Baker Dr. Who hat. Yes with a 6 inch crown and 4 inch brim you'll be able to block it up a size or two and still have enough brim for an indy fedora. though, as is, it is a neat hat in its own right.

Someone once told me it looks like the sorting hat from Harry Potter.

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 10:50 pm

scottyrocks6 wrote:
jbbowers wrote:Man, I can't believe you missed this one, Steve!

If you look closely, you'll see the 54 is actually the fraction 5 3/4, which is the height scottyrocks6 gave us. The 3 and the solidus (fraction bar) are obscured by damage, but you can just make them out. This happens all the time on ebay, the sellers misread the numbers if they are damaged, which sometimes means taking a gamble based on a gut feeling.

Brad
Wow, Ill have to take a look at that when I get home.

jb, youve got some eyes! Yes, the 3 and the solidus are there, but theyre smaller than the 5 and the 4, and theyre obscured by an irregularity in the wood. Good call!

bigrex · Post by **bigrex** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:00 am

Very cool block there, yes, show us how the reblocked specimen turns out. I also just picked up an old block on eBay, I'm really rather elated, but I guess it pays to have a smaller sized head (6 7/8 - 7). It looks great from the photos. Pictures and a separate thread to follow when I get it in the mail...now I just need to get a hat to reblock and modify...

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:50 am

you look closely, you'll see the 54 is actually the fraction 5 3/4, which is the height scottyrocks6 gave us.

Yeah, I saw the pits and thought that as well. But somehow I though he said the height was 6 inches. So, I was looking for another explanation.

If that is 5 3/4, then this block makes sense. Number 54, 7 3/8 size, with 5 3/4 crown height. Good eye Brad! And my eyes are not so good today. Lost vision in my left one, and the surgery failed, and I am one eyed for now. Wanta see my real alligator skin black eye patch? No joke. I make more typing errors too!

I reckon I was too old to box with my son in law. May change my name to Patch Fedora.

Fedora

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:52 am

My God! Steve, what happened?!

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:03 am

binkmeisterRick wrote:My God! Steve, what happened?!

I think we can find a clue here, bink....

I reckon I was too old to box with my son in law.

Regards! Michaelson

IndianaChris711 · Post by **IndianaChris711** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:25 am

Wow that is an awesome block, a great find. I think it will turn out to be a great Raiders Fedora.

Steve you only have one working eye??

How are you making hats with only one eye to see things?? I guess it may take longer to make hats?? I hope your alright and get better soon, I do remember you saying on here you had a virus you were trying to recover from.

Kind Regards,

IndianaChris

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:29 am

Well, if his 'boxing' comment is true, one thing I've learned in all my years of living is to NEVER 'lead' with a good eye. Nose, maybe....but eye, never.

Regards! Michaelson

jbbowers · Post by **jbbowers** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 11:55 am

Fedora wrote:I reckon I was too old to box with my son in law. May change my name to Patch Fedora. Fedora

Wouldn't "Old Indy" be more appropriate?

Sorry to hear about that Steve.

Brad

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:13 pm

Steve, we didn't mean it when we said "stick a needle in your eye."

Indiana Bugs · Post by **Indiana Bugs** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 12:30 pm

Scheduled retirements are always better than unscheduled ones. Get better soon, Steve.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 11:39 am

Oh, I still see fine. But lost my depth of perception. But, you get used to it. I can still thread needles! Just have to hit the needle with the thread first to find it!

Should be only temporary though. Gotta go back in and let them try again. But waiting for a better time to do it. But, I look cool in that eyepatch!!

I am the old Indy now. And it does not slow me down, much. But, gives me just another reason to retire sooner than later. Right now, I figure the day I get finally caught up, and if Indy 5 does not happen, it will be time to call it quits, and just reblock my own hats til I can't do it anymore. I mean, I can't see me making new hats, 4 years from today, max. Right now, I would have closed my site down, if not for the possibility for Indy 5. But, its not like I am selling any hats these days. But the site has to be up for Indy 5. I want to be able to make that last change to the site, that we did the last Indy hat. For ego reasons.

Then price em where no one in their right mind would buy one. And if someone did, well, who would not make a hat for a big price? I would then post a date on the site telling my last day of operation, and ride off into the sunset. Ease out of it, in a classy way. And then enjoy my memories of being involved in hopefully the last two Indy films. What a way to go out!! And leave the hatmaking to the young un's here. Fedora

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:05 pm

I always hate to read posts of you hanging up hat making my friend but understand why you are. You deserve to go fishing. Heck this City slicker would love to go fishing with you. Take care of your health Steve. If there is anything I can do to help you please let me know.

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:25 pm

Steve you should become a teacher of hat making once you've caught up. Heck we have this lady in our area who makes glass beads. She sells classes for people who fly in and stay with her for a few weeks learning the technique. She makes big bucks per head and is always booked!

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:34 pm

Just curious, if one comes across a nice block and wanted to duplicate it, could you make a mould of it and use something like Fixall (Fix-It-All) or other media to make something useable? I had a bowl of Fixall harden up once and was shocked at how solid and hard it really was. You can cut, saw and sand the stuff.

Some nice stuff here.
http://www.homegroan.com/millinery.html

IndianaChris711 · Post by **IndianaChris711** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:47 am

Fedora wrote:Oh, I still see fine. But lost my depth of perception. But, you get used to it. I can still thread needles! Just have to hit the needle with the thread first to find it! Should be only temporary though. Gotta go back in and let them try again. But waiting for a better time to do it. But, I look cool in that eyepatch!! I am the old Indy now. And it does not slow me down, much. But, gives me just another reason to retire sooner than later.

Well I am glad you are still able to make hats and that your eye situation is only temporary. Maybe Indy should wear an eye patch in the movies that way it would be SA.

I understand your reason to retire eventually one day. There is a need for everyone to do that some point in their lives.

Fedora wrote:I would then post a date on the site telling my last day of operation, and ride off into the sunset. Ease out of it, in a classy way. And then enjoy my memories of being involved in hopefully the last two Indy films. What a way to go out!! And leave the hatmaking to the young un's here. Fedora

Sounds like a perfect Indy ending, like in Last Crusade. I wish you the best Steve I know your probably still working on hats from late 07 from at least people who have gotten their hats lately.

Kind Regards

IndianaChris

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