My new Raiders hat.

[Holt]

Hi fedora fans.

I just wanted to show you my new Raiders hat. well not 'new', I just gave it a new bash. first some heavy soaking and then went to work on it. this is the old Indiana G hat I got from him some time ago. I just refreshed the look.

I really dig how this came out, it has that awesome stovepipe shape I allways wanted in my previous fed 4's. This hat screams Raiders to me.

in some shots it may look really tall, but I have her tiltet back on my forhead. it may casue an illusion...


Im curious what you think though...
EDIT

[theinterchange]

Splendid work, as always! This LOOKS like a Raiders hat. So many that you see look Raidersish, but not quite there. This one looks the part well.

Now, box up your Federation.. and I'll p.m you my address.. I'll have to confiscate it, I'm the new COW hat check man, and I find it to be unacceptable for entry in this establishment.

Randy

[RCSignals]

The shape looks great. What is going on at the front under the ribbon?

[davidd]

How did you get such a tall, "stovepipe" look? My Fed IV Deluxe looks short and tapered. I recently pushed out my "pointy circus clown hat" bash. I guess I'll have to try "some heavy soaking" and then "go to work on it."

Hot water or cold?

[DarenHenryW]

Excellent work, my friend! You should be very proud!

DHW

[Holt]

Thanx guys, I appreciate it.

The shape looks great. What is going on at the front under the ribbon?

its the channel you see in the movie hat. in these pictures the ribbon sits alittle high on the crown so the channel is too exposed at the bottom. thats taken care allready.

How did you get such a tall, "stovepipe" look?

Mainly becasue this isnt a fed 4. this is a completley different hat from a different block.

I use cold water to simulate rain. but bear in mind that this hat takes the soaking like a champ. its 100% beaver. a fed is weaker in that departement, so it might taper unless you have a block.

[beaverlid]

I seem to recall a thread that said Beaver felt couldn't make a good raiders hat. You have certainly proved that statement wrong. The fedora looks great! I imagine it isn't as floppy as a rabbit but you have the rest spot on IMO.

Beaverlid

[Fedora]

I seem to recall a thread that said Beaver felt couldn't make a good raiders hat

yeah, I said that. BUT, I was speaking of the SOC hat primarily. Beaver is just such good felt it doesn't like to bulge that is intrinsic to the SOC fedora. That's all I meant. For the other hats in Raiders, or the non SOC look, yeah, beaver works as well as any felt.

But some really good rabbit doesn't like to bulge either, so.....it depends upon the felt really.

Holt did a great job, but to me, it looks too, uh, I think "fresh" is what I am looking for. And this is probably due to using beaver. I run into the same thing when I do a SOC hat, in beaver.

But I still recall that side by side pictorial he did with his hat and the film hat. It was the best replication I have seen to date. Fedora

[DR Ulloa]

Great crease job! Looks great. The side view shows too much arc in the hat though, something I noticed in G's original threads after getting that block made. But, the way you've creased it minimalizes it. That channel under the ribbon is very defined. I have a method of doing that and I think you've done the same thing here. Whatever the way you achieved it, it looks fantastic.

And for those that say a beaver hat won't make a good SoC hat, I beg to differ. I recreased my first CS AB into a SoC hat and made the felt bulge and mushroom where it was supposed to. Pictures were posted in the SoC thread. Here are two shots of it:



Beaver requires more work, but it will distress and it will last after the distressing has been done. After creasing it Raiders style, I creased it back into a CS hat and it has stayed that way. Eric, I think you've done a better job with this than I did my AB. And that is how I like my hats to look: well worn and maybe a little over used, but not dirty. I don't go out with dirty pants or shirts, why should my hat be dirty?

Dave

[Indiego Jones]

What can I say...? It's just AMAZING.
Holt, you are an artist. You have the eye and skills.
And you worked beaver...wich is realy difficult.

I'm also waiting to see your other SOC project....the one with the new block.

Thanx guys, I appreciate it.

The shape looks great. What is going on at the front under the ribbon?

its the channel you see in the movie hat. in these pictures the ribbon sits alittle high on the crown so the channel is too exposed at the bottom. thats taken care allready.

Yes, the channel in the movie hat...but...how do you reproduce that?
throw me a bone here...
Thanks for sharing.
Regards.-

[beaverlid]

I seem to recall a thread that said Beaver felt couldn't make a good raiders hat

yeah, I said that. BUT, I was speaking of the SOC hat primarily. Beaver is just such good felt it doesn't like to bulge that is intrinsic to the SOC fedora. That's all I meant. For the other hats in Raiders, or the non SOC look, yeah, beaver works as well as any fELT.

I have heard this said by many here on COW. Some have even claimed to have given up trying to work with Beaver felt. I don't believe I have seen many pics that have captured the character of the fedora from ROTLA this well.

[Fedora]

The side view shows too much arc in the hat though, something I noticed in G's original threads after getting that block made. But, the way you've creased it minimalizes it.

The thing about the Raiders fedora, in regards to this arc, is, some scenes show a fairly flat arc, and other scenes(I think of the "facing off Belloq in the bar PR photo) show a well difined arc. I think this is due to the height of the front and back creases. The lower you crease them, the right block should yield that arc. While still giving the flatter arced hat when the creases are a bit higher. (outside the temple hat) But, you have to throw in a "settling of the felt" variable, and of course even a minimum amount of shrinkage variable in some parts of the hat.

I still think if your your block will pull off the "outside the temple look", you have the right starting point for the hats that followed in the film. But just my opinion. Some think that opening hat was a totally different hat.

Regarding that permanent looking crease in the right front crease of the hat, I can get it in my own hats just by completely making the ribbon and bow, and then sizing it smaller than the hat, and forcing it down over the crown. I crush up the hat to do this. With soft rabbit felt. a bit of pressure on the right spot in the front crease, and voila', you have that extra dent. That WON'T go away. But, it wrinkles up the sweat at that spot. My head corrected that with some wear though.

This ribbon installation technique also helps encourage the bulges, if you work on getting those present in your hat. Because, one thing is clearing visible to me. The SOC hat had a good tight ribbon. On the LC fedora, the ribbon in some scenes has pulled away from the hat, on the top edge. Very loose.

The SOC ribbon was so tight, 3M$ thinks the sweat was removed, and the ribbon tightened the hat so it would fit Ford. I think that is plausible, but not sure. I do know in Indy 4, some of the stunt hats we made, had the sweats taken out so they would fit the gray wigs. So, that gives some credence to this theory, I reckon. Seems to be a common sense approach to a "too small" hat. Perhaps the sweatband in Indy's hat shrunk up as to be too uncomfortable to wear.

[Indiego Jones]

Regarding that permanent looking crease in the right front crease of the hat, I can get it in my own hats just by completely making the ribbon and bow, and then sizing it smaller than the hat, and forcing it down over the crown. I crush up the hat to do this. With soft rabbit felt. a bit of pressure on the right spot in the front crease, and voila', you have that extra dent. That WON'T go away. But, it wrinkles up the sweat at that spot. My head corrected that with some wear though.

This ribbon installation technique also helps encourage the bulges, if you work on getting those present in your hat. Because, one thing is clearing visible to me. The SOC hat had a good tight ribbon.

Thank you so much!
You are the Master
High Regards!

[Fedora]

Dave? Is that the AB with the smaller brim? Has to be, otherwise your CS needs 2 3/4's on the side. The crown is not in proportion to the brim on that hat. And you wear a larger sized hat than Ford of course.

I had made all of the stunt hats, which some were 7 5/8's, but was told to leave the brims as Ford's. So, I automatically started doing that on orders, and when I came to Dave's hat, it just struck me, the brim is not large enough for the crown size and shape. But it was made, he felt the same as I did, and I replaced his hat with a larger brimmed one. To compensate for hat size. In brims, 1/8 of an inch matters, when it comes to Indy fedoras.

But the differential needs to be around 1/4 an inch. One of the film hats from a prior film was measured by Bernie to be 2 9/16ths on the sides. That's between 2 1/2 and 2 5/8th. I am sure Swales had a mixture in the hats he made, with variances from hat to hat. I doubt he was "German like" precise in his hand cuts. And that figures into the Raiders fedora, as you compare hat to hat from that film. There is one photo from Raiders where the brim looks to be 2 3/8ths to me on the sides. But I have seen only one photo that shows this width.

One thing about Raiders fedora is the interplay between crown and brim width. Some hats have it, some don't. The CS block does not have the right interplay as exhibited by the Raiders fedora. That is obvious to me. And ok, as it was not meant to be a Raiders fedora anyways. It is its own Indy fedora, like the TOD and TLC hats were.

I think my Raiders block has a pretty close interplay with the film hat though. It's all in the block. It really is. A Raiders block can be too blocky. The CS is blocky. Very square. Which tells me, the Raiders fedora was less so, which means no 360. And it also means there was actually some taper in the Raiders block. The right amount is the key. And I doubt it was more than 3/16ths from bottom to top. This small amount gets rid of the blockiness of the CS.

Pardon me for the hijack. Lets get back to Holt's hat. Outstanding Holt. But as I said, your earlier rabbit hat comparison with the film hat blew me away my friend. When I first saw it, I thought, good gosh, this guy has really nailed this hat! I think it was the front veiw you showed. And I thought at the time, there is no way anyone would ever come as close as you did. And I still hold that opinion. Some may match you, but no one will beat you. Fedora

[DR Ulloa]

Yeah Steve, this is the smaller brimmed one you made me. You told me to beat that one up and I did. I didn't like the way that the smaller brim looked with that crown so I unturned it and creased it back into a CS hat but lowered the crown height to compensate for the brim. Looks better now. By the way, did you get my e-mail with my shipping address and that picture?

Dave

[Holt]

Thanx guys, I really appreciate your kind words.

I will take some outsife pictures as soon as I can.

[Holt]

your earlier rabbit hat comparison with the film hat blew me away my friend. When I first saw it, I thought, good gosh, this guy has really nailed this hat! I think it was the front veiw you showed. And I thought at the time, there is no way anyone would ever come as close as you did. And I still hold that opinion. Some may match you, but no one will beat

Thanx again Steve. I really appreciate those words. especially comming from you.

I will post some new pictures of that hat soon. some better side by side pictures. I have my fullers earth now that I was waiting on at the time when I did those side by side. it looks even better now then what it did back then.

as for this hat. I really didnt try to make a SoC hat, I just wanted a Raiders hat with that groovy tall stovepipe crown, But I just had to put the channel in. I love that detail!

[Dangerman009]

How do you do it? Excellent job.

[Holt]

Here she is together with my ''Holt'' Raiders jacket.

I had the oportunity to wear this hat today, so I did. I love her!

EDIT