Snake whips, extra firm

badger_state · Post by **badger_state** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:43 pm

I've been re-reading some posts on IndyGear and WhipEnthusiasts about folks who use an extra bolster (first 6" or so) in their signal whips or snake whips in order to make them feel more like a small bullwhip. Since I'll be moving to suburbia soon and don't want to scare the neighbors (at least for the first month or two...), I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this type of modified snake or signal. Obviously, with a stiffer handle area, they wouldn't be "pocket snakes," but I really have no need to carry 'em in my pocket in the first place.

Any thoughts?

Jeremy.

Paul_Stenhouse · Post by **Paul_Stenhouse** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:12 pm

Dear Jeremy,

I haven't heard of that practice before, but that is something to consider. I could see how using this extra piece might make it a bit stiffer for first, let's say 75% of the life of your whip. Since bolsters are typically flat pieces of leather, as in what the majority of us whipmakers use, they may break over time and you might have a "two-piece" handle, so to speak, where it flexs greatly in the middle of the handle, and not so much at either end. Does that make sense?

You could always get a whipmaker to make a *very* short handled, short bullwhip for you, like with a 4 or 6 inch handle, that isn't shot loaded, but weighted like a normal bullwhip.

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

ecwhips · Post by **ecwhips** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 2:59 pm

Jeremy,

Peter Jack, The Whipman makes a snakewhip with a 3 to 4 inch stiffener in the end of the handle. It coils up like a snake, but it just has that little bit of stiffness at the butt for improved handling.

Jim

sab04 · Post by **sab04** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 4:16 pm

hey Jim,
I couldn't find the whip pic in your gallery

-scott

by the way, I'll change my avatar when the whip arrives

ecwhips · Post by **ecwhips** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:13 pm

sab04 wrote:hey Jim,
I couldn't find the whip pic in your gallery
-scott

by the way, I'll change my avatar when the whip arrives

Scott,

You have to click on the Indy whip at the top of the page, and your whip is at the bottom on the right.

I was only kidding about the Yankees avatar, too. As big a Yankee fan as I am it really doesn't bother me.

Jim

ecwhips · Post by **ecwhips** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:16 pm

You know what happened, Scott, I put the picture in there this morning and my computer crashed right when I saved the changes. I had assumed that everything was okay but I guess it didn't make it. I'll post it again tonight and I'll check to make sure it worked this time.

Jim

badger_state · Post by **badger_state** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:41 pm

How do you think Peter is re-inforcing the handle base? On a snake whip, would you insert a handle or just reinforce what is there?

Just to "think outside the box," (doesn't everyone love cliches?) what would, in everyone's estimation, constitute the ideal short whip? The parameters would be something that could be multi-cracked, no longer that 4 foot thong. So what would it be? Specially designed signal whip? Snake with a reinforced handle? Super short bull whip?

Robert Duke · Post by **Robert Duke** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:58 pm

If 4 foot is the given parameters, then my choice by far is a stockwhip for multicracking.
I can do tons of cracks with a 4 ft stock. John Brady's 7 Seas, Ocean Waves, Snake Killers, Hassett's Four Corners, Fast Helicopters, Breakaways, Volleys, Fast and Slow Figure 8s, Arrowheads, old style four corners, Queensland flashes, Sydney flashes, Tasmanian cutbacks, Overhead crosses.... just tons of freestyle multicracking with that stock that you cannot do as well with a snake,signal or bullwhip.

badger_state · Post by **badger_state** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 8:28 pm

Robert:

4 foot stockwhip - interesting choice. With the stock/handle included, how long would the overall whip be? 5.5' or so?

Jeremy

jerryrwm · Post by **jerryrwm** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 2:12 am

I agree with Robert. A 4' stockwhip allows for greater variety in multiple cracking that a 4' snakewhip, signalwhip or even the mini-Indy or pocket bulls. They are so much faster that it makes it difficult to control.

The stockwhip has then advantage hands down because of the stock handle. Easier to control, easier to direct, and allows you to get the whip on different planes easier.

As to length, the signalwhip will be 4' from butt knot to end of popper, the snakewhip will be about 12"-18" longer because of the fall plus the popper, as will be the mini-Indy or pocket bull, whille the stockwhip will have a fall that is probably 18" - 20" or so plus the popper, and a handle that is 16" -18" long.
But you can use anyone of these whips indoors for many of the cracks including volleys. The Queensland Flash as well as the Cattleman's Crack might be a bit tough if you have 8' ceilings, but there are plenty that you can do.

Jerry R

bernie47 · Post by **bernie47** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:59 am

What works best for me with snake and signal whips is to firstly plait a diamond pattern with the first 8 inches of the plaited bellies,( under 1 over 10 and then before the final bolster is tied on I bind the first 8 inches or so with waxed thread.The thread I use is actually like a tape so when it is bound on tightly it lays down nice and flat.
I also have to agree with Robert about the stock whips.Here in Australia I don't think there is a weekend that goes by that there isn't some form of competition going on somewhere involving whip cracking.Only stock whips are allowed in these competitioins and you will find most people who do complicated routines use 4ft to 4ft 6in stock whips.

bernie47 · Post by **bernie47** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:01 am

oops,that should read under 1 over 1,it's been a long week,need to go fishin.

Robert Duke · Post by **Robert Duke** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:02 am

badger_state wrote:Robert:

4 foot stockwhip - interesting choice. With the stock/handle included, how long would the overall whip be? 5.5' or so?

Jeremy

Jeremy,

A stockwhip is not measured by handle unlike the other whips as Jerry pointed out. A signal whip is measured from the butt to the end of the popper. A snakewhip is measured from the butt to the end of the plaiting at the fall hitch. Naturally the fall and popper will add approximately 2 more feet, more or less, in reach. The bullwhip is measured the same way as a snakewhip. That is from the butt to the end of the plaiting at the fall hitch. Fall and popper may extend the reach another 24"- 36".
The stockwhip measures the thong only from the keeper to the fall hitch. The fall, popper AND handle extend the reach. Handle length varies according to personal taste. Stock handles vary in length from as short as 12" to 21" long.

Bernie is right about the length for stockwhips. Some people mistake long whips are cool and get a long stockwhip. A long stockwhip is usually 7 feet plus. A long bullwhip is usually 10 feet plus. Just my opinion.

I love doing two whip routines with stockwhips as in the Aussie style. It's a great sport to learn. David Morgan learned how to make whips from the Aussies. I've learned to crack whips like the Aussies and would love to see it become a national sport in the U.S. also.

I've been doing some whip development in this area going to a bullwhip for this kind of whipcracking. I use a 16" long cane handle plaited from the butt, use 2 bellies, and has the feel and action of a stockwhip but is still called a bullwhip. Terry Jacka of Australia has been making a similar whip to this as is Peter Jack, the WhipMan from New Zealand also. The cane handle gives the whip a little springy action as opposed to the usual stiff handle of your ordinary, run-of-the-mill bullwhip.

It's fun stuff and would hope more of the whipcrackers here would pick up this style of multicracking routines made famous by the inimitable John Brady.

badger_state · Post by **badger_state** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:34 am

Thanks for the input Robert and Bernie.

For a 4' stockwhip, is there any rough estimate of what an appropriate handle length would be? It seems like a 16"-18" would be more appropriate than a 20".

Robert Duke · Post by **Robert Duke** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 12:05 pm

badger_state wrote:For a 4' stockwhip, is there any rough estimate of what an appropriate handle length would be? It seems like a 16"-18" would be more appropriate than a 20".

I own a pair of 4' stockwhips that have handles 20" long. I also have a 3-1/2 ft stockwhip with a 16" handle. I have another 3 footer with a 14" handle. It's all personal taste. I'd try some others whips or ask a lot of people's opinions before deciding. I wouldn't want to go too short myself. For a 4 foot, 19" would be very nice.

I own 5 pairs of matched stockwhips and several singles in various lengths.

bernie47 · Post by **bernie47** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 2:30 pm

Personally I find 20 inches is good for me but as Badger says it's all a matter of taste.

Snake whips, extra firm

Snake whips, extra firm

Peter Jack's Snake