Todd's Pants

beaverlid · Post by **beaverlid** » Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:22 pm

In the world of fedora's the worst type of all purpose hat one can buy is made of wool felt. The reason being it does not endure when exposed to heat and water. So if we are looking for a true outdoor pant and not just a costume piece one would want a pair of pants that can hold up in the elements. Wool would appear to be a poor choice for outdoor gear. I wouldn't want my pants at the first sign of water to become flood proof and mimic the Michael Jackson style of high waters.

How well will the 100% wool hold up to outdoor elements?

BazzanoJones · Post by **BazzanoJones** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:11 am

beaverlid wrote:In the world of fedora's the worst type of all purpose hat one can buy is made of wool felt. The reason being it does not endure when exposed to heat and water. So if we are looking for a true outdoor pant and not just a costume piece one would want a pair of pants that can hold up in the elements. Wool would appear to be a poor choice for outdoor gear. I wouldn't want my pants at the first sign of water to become flood proof and mimic the Michael Jackson style of high waters.

How well will the 100% wool hold up to outdoor elements?

Totally disagree.

Isn't that a forum for the Indiana Jones costume?

I don't think this is a forum for outdoor/camping equipment, regardless if we can also use it for everyday/outdoor/excursion purposes.

Sorry, but I can choose I like to have the same clothing of the movie, made with the same materials used for the movie.

Illinois James · Post by **Illinois James** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:15 am

I'm no expert, but I think any non-synthetic or, natural fiber material is prone to shrink under the right conditions. That's why most cotton clothing is pre-shrunk in a process that shrinks the fabric evenly. But, if you dry it hot and fast, it'll probably still shrink a little more. Also, there are many types of wool. Worsted wool, or cashmere, or other blends or weaves are going to react differently to the elements than a wool felt hat. Wool's just a poor felt material. But wool clothing does require special care to be sure. Getting the wool pants wet with cold water is probably o.k. Drying them fast would be a big no-no.

Illinois James · Post by **Illinois James** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:28 am

With regards to real-world compatibility as far as our 'costume', because that is what this gear is when it's all together, every part really is practical, except the whip and gunbelt, for most! My brother has a 100% wool camo coat by Columbia, and it shows no ill effects from being soaked. I'd say the wool pants may outlast cotton, given the way the wool has to be pampered! Fine suits in lightweight super 100 wool are extremely durable. Washable Indy-pants would be convenient, there's no disputing that. But I have a ton of docker's already!

BazzanoJones · Post by **BazzanoJones** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:36 am

Illinois James wrote:With regards to real-world compatibility as far as our 'costume', because that is what this gear is when it's all together, every part really is practical, except the whip and gunbelt, for most! My brother has a 100% wool camo coat by Columbia, and it shows no ill effects from being soaked. I'd say the wool pants may outlast cotton, given the way the wool has to be pampered! Fine suits in lightweight super 100 wool are extremely durable. Washable Indy-pants would be convenient, there's no disputing that. But I have a ton of docker's already!

I understand. But what I mean is that the "real-world compatibility" it's a non-sense in a forum that talk about a movie costume. Todd want that we make a choice. And I find strange that a lot of people want an object different from the one we see in the movie.

To make an extreme example: if the Indy pants in the movie was made of thick toilet paper I like to have it in thick toilet paper, regardless if I can use it in real world environements or not.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:26 am

beaverlid wrote:In the world of fedora's the worst type of all purpose hat one can buy is made of wool felt. The reason being it does not endure when exposed to heat and water. So if we are looking for a true outdoor pant and not just a costume piece one would want a pair of pants that can hold up in the elements. Wool would appear to be a poor choice for outdoor gear. I wouldn't want my pants at the first sign of water to become flood proof and mimic the Michael Jackson style of high waters.

How well will the 100% wool hold up to outdoor elements?

Sorry but your supposition is totally wrong. We're not talking of wool felt hats here. This is cavalry twill wool and it's the best material you could buy in matter of trousers. My tailor said they are the best investment because they last FOREVER.
That is the Cavarly Twill (wool) trousers, not wool felt hat. If you had a pair you would understand, Cavalry twill is to trousers what beaver is to hats. They were also employed in WWII and you think they cannot hold up to elements? Totally the opposite. It's a material made on purpose for hard-wear clothing. Reason why it also costs half a fortunte.

The only thing they cannot resist to are moths and bullets so avoid both

djd · Post by **djd** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:04 am

Yes but surely materials technology has moved on since WW2? Wool is not the best fabric for military trousers now? As long as it looks like what we see on the screen I'd be happier with a pair of trousers that I didn't have to teake to the dry cleaners all the time. It's expensive if nothing else

The tousers are the one bit of the costume (boots aside) that does tend to get dirty if you do venture out in it and if I had wool ones I'd probably rarely wear them with the rest of my gear - which would be a shame

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:22 am

I already expressed my thoughts on dry cleaning option and screen accuracy in an earlier post.

As for the cavalry twill not being used anymore, it doesn't mean that it did a poor job until it was abandoned for newer materials. I'm not getting the point here, a kevlar Wested would be best choice for a real-life indiana jones AND screen accurate costume too then?

All I want is screen accuracy (which is not only the look but also the material it is made of) and that lay only into the cavalry twill, anything else is a "close enough" (and as I said we already have PLENTY of those). The other guy before asked if this wool was good for real action, I said YES, it was made on purpose for it.

I have both NH and Wested cavalry twill and it is my impression that they get dirty much less easily than any cotton pair of trousers I have. I rarely send them to be dry cleaned and they are not full of dirt at all. Not only this but when I wear anything else for "the gear" I don't feel screen accurate at all unless I have this material. Once you have a pair in cavalry twill you can't go back to "close enough-easy to clean-but-also easy to dirt" stuff.

Let me be cheeky enough to address again to all of those who are interested in a machine washable to a product that is already existant and from all the hype that there is around this brand surely it will be just as good in terms of accuracy for a lot of people http://www.magnoliclothiers.com/adventu ... -p-39.html

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:39 am

and really, what does it cost to dry clean a pair of pants...? not more than a dollar or two. i have my suits and dress shirts dry cleaned all the time. it's not expensive...

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:07 am

wow that's cheap. Here it costs around 4-8 euro, depending where you go. In the UK much more I think

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:24 am

Erri wrote:wow that's cheap. Here it costs around 4-8 euro, depending where you go. In the UK much more I think

bummer...why is everything so expensive in europe, when the euro is so strong and the dollar so weak?

here in los angeles, there are so many cleaners, maybe it's out of competition but many offer $1 per garment, pants are a dollar, shirts are a dollar

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:47 am

I'm sure it's the high competition that brings the prices down. Here (in Italy) dry cleaners are not THAT commonly used as, perhaps, in the States. Mostly because everyone has a washing machine at home and we only use them rarely for big stuff or special occasions, no one around here would bring their shirts to be washed in these places.

Sorry for the off topic, the original intent of the thread was to know if people preferred the upcoming Todd trousers in a screen accurate Cavalry Twill wool or a more practical totally machine washable material, or a mix. (Gladly) I can see that the screen accurate Twill won. If the poll is over the thread can also be locked as far as I'm concerned, it's easy to go off topic from here. If not, well let's just wait.

enigmata_wood · Post by **enigmata_wood** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 11:58 am

100% cotton twill. looks the same and breathes in all weathers.

jlhampton · Post by **jlhampton** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:00 pm

hey todd, thanks for asking first and giving everyone a choice. i voted 100% wool. wanna know why? that's what was used in the movies. i think we're all here to complete the most screen accurate costume (and that's what it is, by the way) possible.
if todd's offers other options for the fabric...cool. if not, why not do it right the first time. it looks like wool will win out in the end and so it should. if people want a different choice, there are other vendors. personally i own some of todds stuff and i love it, and being here in florida it doesn't have to be imported. since i, personally, am looking for the perfect wool pants, i'd like to get 'em locally. so, hurray for wool!

Illinois James · Post by **Illinois James** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:18 pm

BazzanoJones wrote:
Illinois James wrote:With regards to real-world compatibility as far as our 'costume', because that is what this gear is when it's all together, every part really is practical, except the whip and gunbelt, for most! My brother has a 100% wool camo coat by Columbia, and it shows no ill effects from being soaked. I'd say the wool pants may outlast cotton, given the way the wool has to be pampered! Fine suits in lightweight super 100 wool are extremely durable. Washable Indy-pants would be convenient, there's no disputing that. But I have a ton of docker's already!
I understand. But what I mean is that the "real-world compatibility" it's a non-sense in a forum that talk about a movie costume. Todd want that we make a choice. And I find strange that a lot of people want an object different from the one we see in the movie.

To make an extreme example: if the Indy pants in the movie was made of thick toilet paper I like to have it in thick toilet paper, regardless if I can use it in real world environements or not.

Right, well, yeah, its' a costume, and many people do look at it that way only. But some people want to be able to actually use some of this gear. After all, it's not all inexpensive, and why not use it if you want to? My point is that the wool pants are the best of both worlds, in that you get costume accuracy while still having some trousers that are great for anything else. And I have no doubt that Todd will come through with some pants that will please anybody interested in the hobby, if his past performance is any indicator! Costumes are what he does! But many people here, including myself, can attest to the real-world durability of his stuff.

I could comment on situations in the 'real world' where thick toilet paper pants would have been much more useful than wool pants, but I won't!

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:49 pm

cav·al·ry twill

noun

Definition:

strong material: a hard-wearing worsted fabric used for making tailored sporting jackets and pants

[< its use in making riding breeches for soldiers]

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:59 pm

Tundrarider wrote:When I think of wool pants, I think of a sturdy heavier material; like a thinner version of a wool blanket material. So, even though I voted for wool, if they are like the Wested wool pants, I'll have to pass.

Wested material is the same as the NH and the same of the movie trousers and the same of Todd's upcoming product: cavalry twill wool.
The difference with the Noel Howard trousers (and the screen used ones) is that these are heavier while Wested trousers seems to be made of cavalry twill of a smaller density.
Cavalry twill comes in different densities (from a very light 200gr/square meter-or thereabouts- to a higher grade of 400gr/sq.meter) but if you don't like the feel of Wested cavalry twill, be sure that these new trousers won't change your opinion about it because the type of material is the same.

Indyzane · Post by **Indyzane** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:07 pm

I cant wait for the pants to be available!

How much longer Todd?

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:26 pm

Talking of pants...

Todd are you planning on offering in the future a replica of those silk "briefs" (aka pants, for who speaks the Queen's English

) like the ones Ford wore in the desert made in B&N? I don't think anyone has yet thought of reproducing those yet although I recall some expensive close-enough from France (or something like that).
Personally I would buy a pair or two for summer because that cavalry twill is unbearable during August in Italy.

Clutters · Post by **Clutters** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:35 pm

Indyzane wrote:I cant wait for the pants to be available! How much longer Todd?

Me too. Will they be available before January? Cheers

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:49 pm

Clutters wrote:
Indyzane wrote:I cant wait for the pants to be available! How much longer Todd?
Me too. Will they be available before January? Cheers

Puppetboy wrote:Okay, a no-brainer, of course I'm doing pants. I've been working on designing/sourcing them for more than a year now. I'll post details later when the project is completed - if ever. Don't ask me "when". They'll be done when they're done.

Thanks!

Todd

Travis

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:32 pm

Thank you, Travis.

We have a sample made from our new pattern. They were on display on our Indy mannequin at the QM summit. I have to admit - they look pretty good. They do have that ineffable Raiders air about them. A few adjustments, a new sample, and then I turn it over to the factory.

Clutters · Post by **Clutters** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:37 pm

Right, sorry, I didn't see the "don't ask" post.

Ranger36 · Post by **Ranger36** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:37 pm

Puppetboy wrote:They do have that ineffable Raiders air about them. A few adjustments, a new sample, and then I turn it over to the factory.

(punches air) Yessss!!!! $\:D/$ $\:D/$

I can't wait! Todd, you are the man!

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:22 pm

Puppetboy wrote:They were on display on our Indy mannequin at the QM summit. I have to admit - they look pretty good. They do have that ineffable Raiders air about them. A few adjustments, a new sample, and then I turn it over to the factory.

Hey Todd, are there any shots of that mannequin for those of us who couldn't make it to QMS?

DeWayne · Post by **DeWayne** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:24 pm

As some may have seen, and commented on in another thread, these are my decade old M.B.A. pants. 100% wool. They feel rather thin, airy, and stretchy, very much unlike any other pant that I wear. I'd love to have another "Raiders" color pair that fit like these (I also have a ToD/LC pair, but they've never even been finished at the bottom). Hopefully the new Todd's pants can fill the need.

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:27 pm

Yeah, I love the break on those, but most of that is determined by the hem, and only slightly by the material. They look great. Can't wait to see Todd's offering.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:35 am

puppetboy, if possible you could also give the option of unfinished legs as Noel Howard did. I ordered mine like that and asked my tailor to do the hem the way I wanted. They came out very screen accurate in look and length. I would like if we could have such a choice with your trousers too.

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:56 am

One thing I haven't seen is the argument for wool pants in the woods. Wool is the kind of pant you want to be in if you were to fall in the water - they dry out faster than cotton and will wick the water away from you. People who live in the woods know the importance of a good pair of wool pants.....
Even in 2009

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:00 am

nicktheguy wrote:One thing I haven't seen is the argument for wool pants in the woods. Wool is the kind of pant you want to be in if you were to fall in the water - they dry out faster than cotton and will wick the water away from you. People who live in the woods know the importance of a good pair of wool pants.....
Even in 2009

I couldn't agree more! If you do any hiking, backpacking, or any outdoor activities, especially in fall or winter, you know that wool can save your life. Cotton and polyester, not so much!

BazzanoJones · Post by **BazzanoJones** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:25 am

maboot38 wrote:
nicktheguy wrote:One thing I haven't seen is the argument for wool pants in the woods. Wool is the kind of pant you want to be in if you were to fall in the water - they dry out faster than cotton and will wick the water away from you. People who live in the woods know the importance of a good pair of wool pants.....
Even in 2009
I couldn't agree more! If you do any hiking, backpacking, or any outdoor activities, especially in fall or winter, you know that wool can save your life. Cotton and polyester, not so much!

And, most important, are screen accurate!

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:59 pm

Aww c'mon. How about 100% cotton pants for us who live in the south?

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:05 pm

indy89 wrote:Aww c'mon. How about 100% cotton pants for us who live in the south?

I think you're looking for this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=44015

Cotton pants....hmph! Next thing you'll ask Wested to make you southern boys a brown windbreaker too.

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:25 am

thanks, but no thanks, maboot.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:58 am

I will try to post pics of our first prototype pattern made from cotton. They do look like Dockers in cotton. A good argument for the real wool.

Good, good, good news! Thanks to Indygr for sending me a left-over hem clipping from his MBA Raiders pants. The color is indeed darker than the NH I had inspected. The elusive Raiders color? It almost exactly matched a vintage pair of officer's pinks I have, except for the weight, which is lighter. Of course, we're going to change our specs to match this new info.

Thank you to all of you who have helped me in this endeavor. I am very excited that now the information is available to me to have confidence in the final product.

About the hem, most K-Mart shoppers have never heard of hemming their own pants. They'd be very put off by the idea that they have to hassle with the hem to make them ready to wear. Add to that, many customers buy these at the last minute for events and parties. I will have to buy them hemmed. Of course, any tailor who can hem your pants can also re-hem your pants. If you want to go that route, just buy a longer length and have them shortened.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:06 pm

So are we getting a 'military hem' by default?

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:24 pm

Of course. They're Indy pants.

Photoss · Post by **Photoss** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:18 pm

Puppetboy wrote:Of course. They're Indy pants.

That is awesome!

Indy_Mic · Post by **Indy_Mic** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:44 pm

Now for some begging:

Please offer them in longer lengths than K-Mart shoppers are accustomed to. There are people out there whose inseam measurement is greater than their waist measurement e.g., 32"X34"

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 1:53 pm

A 'deluxe' in wool and a 'budget' in cotton twill would be my vote. The budget at around $35 if that is at all possible.

Bartram · Post by **Bartram** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 2:04 pm

Puppetboy wrote:Of course. They're Indy pants.

Awesome indeed!

This deal keeps getting better all the time!

B

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:09 pm

Kt Templar wrote:A 'deluxe' in wool and a 'budget' in cotton twill would be my vote. The budget at around $35 if that is at all possible.

...and I'm the cheap one??

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:59 pm

Erri wrote:
Kt Templar wrote:A 'deluxe' in wool and a 'budget' in cotton twill would be my vote. The budget at around $35 if that is at all possible.
...and I'm the cheap one??

I was going to say $19.99 but didn't want to push it!

Once you have the details set the cotton would be significantly cheaper to make.

WinstonWolf359 · Post by **WinstonWolf359** » Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:54 pm

And fat boy sizes, please.

I've had to pass on the shirt and jacket because of sizes so far...I'd hate to miss out on the pants too.

Photoss · Post by **Photoss** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:22 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if they were around $75, but I'm definitely saving up.

Oh and I changed my vote, I now vote for wool, as long as it's quality wool.

(I've had some bad wool pants in the past

)

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:54 pm

I believe Todd said they would cost much less than all the others, so I doubt $75, but even that would be fair it they are more accurate than the others.

moviematt1989 · Post by **moviematt1989** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 3:20 pm

So which material did you end up going with?, you said, most SA but machine washable thus the 50/50 stuff?... I see the poll says 100% wool is the winner. Yes / no?

Alkali Jones · Post by **Alkali Jones** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:53 am

Hey Matt,

It looks like 100% wool is the hands down winner. Dry clean only. Sorry.

How did your pants turn out? I know you planned some modifications. Were you able to complete them? Do you have pictures?

Dan S

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:37 am

Dan,

I have a cotton sample that I can shoot pictures of. The problem is that they really look like Dockers made from cotton. I hesitate to post them because they really don't have the "look" yet. I will be making two more wool cavalry twill samples this week. I'd rather post pics of those.

Yes, wool it is. Nothing looks like it, nothing drapes like it. It is screen accurate, it is authentic, it is what Indy's pants ARE. The rest of my gear is designed to be screen accurate - the good, the bad, and the ugly. I don't make the finest leather gear or the finest jackets, but I aspire to make what I believe is the same quality Ford wore on screen. Some gearheads are after Gucci quality look-alikes. No criticism intended! Just to say that, that is not the path I've chosen. This discussion has brought that back into focus for me.

I believe wool is what makes Indy pants "Indy pants", practical or not.

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Wed Nov 18, 2009 10:47 am

You're the man, Todd. Can't wait.

Choice of pants material