Adventurebilt durability

[beaverlid]

Do any members own an Adventurebilt hat that they use daily in all types of different elements that with years of abuse it still holds up without the need of a reblock? I am looking for members that have had the hat from the early days of Adventurebilt. I am just curious because I wear mine daily and I love the look of the CS style I bought. I also purchased a Penman LC style and if the need arises to send either back I need a spare to wear during the downtime required for a reblock. I am not sure what the timeframe is when even the best of fedoras will need a little maintenance. I am sure it varies from hat to hat. I know Fedora says that if you want a truly taper resistant hat it has to be vintage. Anybody have a 5 year or older Adventurebilt that is still going strong and has never needed a reblock?

I have no intention of babying this hat, but deep down I sometimes want to because of the unique history of the fedora that was made by one of our own in the COW community.

Beaverlid

[Michaelson]

Just wear it.

I've had an AB since the dawn of the company (before, actually), and they just get better with age and wear, and I wear mine year round, and everywhere I go.

Regards! Michaelson

[beaverlid]

I do intend to wear it and wear it in even the worst of conditions. As I sit here and study for a theology test and browse the COW postings I am wearing it. My wife makes fun of me because it never comes off.

I have another beaver hat that took a dunk in the James river on a canoe trip and it has never been the same. It is only about six months old and I am afraid it is in need of some serious attention to get it back to normal. It didn't get soaked through but I am betting the only cure is to get this relatively new hat into the hatter that made it. I am hoping the AB will be like the KOTCS fedora and take a dunk or two in the river and suffer no real damage.

[Dr. Nebraska S.]

I've only had mine for about 16 months, but I've worn mine daily through some extreme conditions. If it's of any help you might want to check out my review over here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42330

Best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

[DR Ulloa]

Well, dunking a hat into a river might get it wet to the core. Once that happens, forget about it. You've got taper. But, I know that there are a lot of times that not so good hatters market hats as beaver, even though they are not. I've even heard of felters sending guys bodies that aren't beaver and calling it so. It takes a good hatter to know when a hat is pure beaver. With just enough beaver content, most wouldn't know that they have a blend and not a true beaver. This may be the case with you. If you got your hat from a shady guy, like some of the hatters out there...none of our local COW guys though...they are good guys, all of them...then you might not have a pure beaver hat.

As for my ABs. They both got soaked pretty early on and they are still holding up like champs. No taper. No hat is taper proof, but these come close.

Dave

[beaverlid]

Good review on your AB Nebraska. I am studying in the field of archaeology as well. I know the tunnel you speak of. It is Hezekiah's water tunnel if I am thinking of the right tunnel filled with water. I am taking my AB to Qumran in May 2010 for a dig I am accompanying Dr. Randall Price on. I have no doubt in that climate I will sweat profusely, but I only need to clean up a sweat stained ribbon from that adventure. There will be little concern for wet conditions I am thinking. However on some fedoras I have heard of taper happening from leaving a hat in the car on a hot day. None of these are concerns of mine in regards to the AB.Fedora posted somewhere that he has never even sweated through an AB to leave stains on the ribbon. I am sure I have the best hat for the job of longevity.

[BendingOak]

I have one of Steves hats from the very begining and vener needed a re-block and I live in Oregon. It was my daily hat until I started making hats. All hats will tapper if the core gets soaked. The thing is beaver and the water protection that we use will do a great job
of preventing the core from getting wet. I would not worry in the least with Steves hats.

[beaverlid]

Well, dunking a hat into a river might get it wet to the core. Once that happens, forget about it. You've got taper. But, I know that there are a lot of times that not so good hatters market hats as beaver, even though they are not. I've even heard of felters sending guys bodies that aren't beaver and calling it so. It takes a good hatter to know when a hat is pure beaver. With just enough beaver content, most wouldn't know that they have a blend and not a true beaver. This may be the case with you. If you got your hat from a shady guy, like some of the hatters out there...none of our local COW guys though...they are good guys, all of them...then you might not have a pure beaver hat.

As for my ABs. They both got soaked pretty early on and they are still holding up like champs. No taper. No hat is taper proof, but these come close.

Dave

After talking to Bending Oak about the above mentioned hat that was damaged he thought what you describe about the hat not being 100% beaver to be the case. That is why I went with 2 of the best names in the business AB and Penman.

[Dr. Nebraska S.]

Good review on your AB Nebraska. I am studying in the field of archaeology as well. I know the tunnel you speak of. It is Hezekiah's water tunnel if I am thinking of the right tunnel filled with water. I am taking my AB to Qumran in May 2010 for a dig I am accompanying Dr. Randall Price on.

Yep, Hezekiah's tunnel is correct! Also (off topic) let me know if you'd like some further reading recommendations about Qumran. I've helped edit a couple of volumes on the Dead Sea Scrolls, and have contacts in the field.

best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

[beaverlid]

Good review on your AB Nebraska. I am studying in the field of archaeology as well. I know the tunnel you speak of. It is Hezekiah's water tunnel if I am thinking of the right tunnel filled with water. I am taking my AB to Qumran in May 2010 for a dig I am accompanying Dr. Randall Price on.

Yep, Hezekiah's tunnel is correct! Also (off topic) let me know if you'd like some further reading recommendations about Qumran. I've helped edit a couple of volumes on the Dead Sea Scrolls, and have contacts in the field.

best wishes,
Nebraska Schulte

PM sent to not stray off topic. Thanks

[mcmanm]

I was hoping Steve or John could answer a few questions about reblocks.

1. Does a reblock(s) eventually make a hat taper proof?

2. How many times do have to reblock a hat in order to make it taper proof?

3. Is there even such a thing as a taper proof hat?

4. Is it the same as "killing the felt?"

Matt

[DR Ulloa]

The hatters on here would really be the guys to answer this, and I'm sure they will, but I seem to remember either Steve or John telling me that reblocking a hat helps kill the felt. After a number of reblocks, the felt will die and will not need to be reblocked again because of taper. This is how I understand it.

Dave

[Mulceber]

Well I'm not them but...

1. Does a reblock(s) eventually make a hat taper proof?.

It's not specifically the reblocking that makes them taper proof - more the age of the hat. Around the age of 7 years, the felt dies, at which point it will no longer taper. You merely have to keep having the hat reblocked until it's about 7, although I think reblocking it may speed up the process. Could be wrong though.

2. How many times do have to reblock a hat in order to make it taper proof?

2-3 times. Basically until it reaches age 7

3. Is there even such a thing as a taper proof hat?

an old hat.

4. Is it the same as "killing the felt?"

No. Killing the felt is a process that Steve and Marc invented which is designed to greatly speed up the process so that it takes less than 7 years for the hat to reach the taper-proof stage and at the same time makes it more taper-proof here and now. -M

[Johnny Fedora]

I have one of Steves hats from the very begining and vener needed a re-block and I live in Oregon. It was my daily hat until I started making hats. All hats will tapper if the core gets soaked. The thing is beaver and the water protection that we use will do a great job
of preventing the core from getting wet. I would not worry in the least with Steves hats.

HA! I was just going to bring up this very hat as an example! Awesome!

Johnny

p.s. Have fun at the QM dude!

[Fedora]

Being totally honest about the AB pure beaver....means I have to say that I have found that some runs from my feltmaker are better than other runs. That should be no surprise to a hatter, but to a non hatter it might be. By "better runs" I mean that some runs tend to taper little over time and wear, while some will taper faster. It's just the nature of the beast. I have no explanation for it, that is, a factual one. I am still mystified about the causes.

With that said, pure beaver or even a mostly beaver hat is a much more dense felt, WHICH, is why it generally takes alot of exposure to water for the core to get wet. Superficial wetting, on the outer layer only, generally does not cause a beaver hat to taper, nor does heat, like leaving it in a hot car. Heat doesn't seem to bother beaver like it does a rabbit hat.

I still get a few hats in that I made real early, that have only minimal taper, and not enough to even warrant a reblock, but I always do a reblock anyways. I have also gotten in later hats that were in dire need of a reblock. Of course, I never really know what sort of things this hat was subjected to. But by gauging it by my own experience with my own pure beaver hats, I assume the core got wet, at some point in time. Which means it was worn in the rain alot, or, even was worn in a long frog strangler. I have never had any of my hats to leak, regardless of how long I was in the rain, but I have had a few wet cores, that did indeed cause me to reblock that hat.

But, the final verdict is, all new felt hats will taper, under the right conditions. It just generally takes beaver longer to do so, when compared to rabbit. The advantage that beaver has over rabbit is the durability issue. Beaver is just a more durable hat and you won't ever tear it, doing a reblock. It is so much stronger, because of the fineness of the fur that felts densely. And this also means, the hat will last much longer than rabbit, in so far as wear is concerned. It's a tough hat.

If you were choosing your gear for an extended wilderness trip, you would choose gear that would hold up. From your hiking boots, clothes, and hat. In this scenerio, being an old solo backpacker, today, I would choose beaver. With weight of gear being important, for long treks, and wanting your hat to serve multiple purposes, (a serious backpacker would never take two hats) beaver is the smartest choice. It will keep your head dry in rains, yet will also keep the sun off the head, and generally would not shrink up to the point that you could not wear it as time passed. It would also be less likely to be torn by thorns, and other things.

And this durability issue was heavy on my mind when I was choosing what felt I would use in my hats. I have always loved high quality gear, and still own a pair of Pivetta hiking boots, from Italy, that I bought back in 1975 or so. Very expensive to buy at that time, but boy have I gotten my money's worth. Scree is very rough on boots. Yet these survived everything that was thrown at them. The Pivetta company, was a very old boot maker, but alas, it exists no more. I also have heavy duty Poplin safari shirts that are 12 years old, were worn daily(I bought 7 of them) and I can still wear them. Yes, they are no longer as heavy duty as when new, but this has to be the best material ever made for outdoor wear. At least for shirts. I am drifting so I will stop now. Fedora

[beaverlid]

Fedora I have heard the things you mentioned here in other postings, so part of me didin't want to post this thread and cause people to answer the same old question again. However you gave specific answers to my questions of actual durability aside from daily wear around town. You also gave me the answer or at least idea that I don't need to worry about taper for a good while and when it becomes an issue it will reblock repeatedly. All of these issues are things I already suspected but positive reenforcement never hurts. Thanks for the posts and I look forward to reading more.

[Restless Dreamer]

By "better runs" I mean that some runs tend to taper little over time and wear, while some will taper faster. It's just the nature of the beast. I have no explanation for it, that is, a factual one. I am still mystified about the causes.

just a theory...a VERY weird theory...could it be due the food some beavers eat?

I'll explain myself better. We are what we eat. A poor or bad nutrition makes us live shorter, can cause our skin to be prone to wrinkle, even make us loose our hair. Pork meat is tasty if the pig has eaten good quality food in his life, but it's quite insipid if the pig has been fosted with bad fodder. A sheep's wool will be lesser or better quality according to what she eat and how she is breed.

So let's take a group of beavers which live in a nice river with clean water and a lot of trees of various kind they can munch and plants and green grass; and let's take another group which inhabits a tainted river with a low variety of plants in the surroundings. Nutrition can affect their whole wellness, and they fur as well. We know that eating industrial foods that contain too much fat or sugar can weaken our hair; maybe something similar applies to beaver fur, who knows?


or maybe I'm just fantasizing and it's all a matter of how the fur is felted and trasformed in rawbodies

[DR Ulloa]

I can believe that. You may have a point there.

Dave

[Michaelson]

That's probably more than just a 'probabilty', RD.

During the heyday of the beaver hat craze back in the 1800's, Canadian beaver was highly sought after...and after that beaver trapped in the high Rocky Mountains. The quality of the pelts were highly regarded compared to those trapped in the lower 48 States, so it had to be due to the climate and what the animals were eating that made their fur so sought after.

Regards !Michaelson

[Mike]

Well, dunking a hat into a river might get it wet to the core. Once that happens, forget about it.

Not necessarily. My AB survived not one, but two jumps into the Nawiliwili River on the island of Kaua'i. Yep. Right where Indy jumped in to escape from the Hovitos. I'm working on a write-up to go over our trip, but here are two pics to show how my AB withstood the soakings. The sweat dried a little tight after not being on my head for 22 hours flying back, but the hat turned out fine, IMO. That was with no pre-treatment of waterproofing (as I hadn't had time before the trip to get any).




The dent in back is from me holding onto the hat as I submerged. The water rolled right off!

[Michaelson]

Post that 'after' shot you have too, Mike. It tells the tale!

Regards! Michaelson

[beaverlid]

Well, dunking a hat into a river might get it wet to the core. Once that happens, forget about it.

Not necessarily. My AB survived not one, but two jumps into the Nawiliwili River on the island of Kaua'i. Yep. Right where Indy jumped in to escape from the Hovitos. I'm working on a write-up to go over our trip, but here are two pics to show how my AB withstood the soakings. The sweat dried a little tight after not being on my head for 22 hours flying back, but the hat turned out fine, IMO. That was with no pre-treatment of waterproofing (as I hadn't had time before the trip to get any).




The dent in back is from me holding onto the hat as I submerged. The water rolled right off!

This is exactly what I was looking for. Awesome pics!! Thanks for posting.

Beaverlid

[Mike]

Post that 'after' shot you have too, Mike. It tells the tale!

Forgot that one, here goes…


If anything, the hat became more supple and easier to bend into configurations.

After visiting the falls from the opening scenes, the socks turned pretty much brown, so they ended up in the trash on the cruise ship. But the hat and shirt fared fine. I was tempted to leave the shirt unwashed as I liked the dirt-ridden look of it, but I'm sure it'd be pretty ripe the next time I put it on.

[beaverlid]

Again excellent picture. It is what I wanted to hear and see. I am on the river all summer, spring and fall and on the trails hiking the blue ridge mountains. I also will be frequenting the drying climates of the near east each summer and I am glad to say your pictures have done the best job at putting my mind at ease. If the hat takes this and looks just as good after then I don't think I am going to hurt mine. Thanks again for posting these awesome pics.

[Michaelson]

These hats have survived the dry climate of the Giza Plateau in Egypt, torrential rains in the jungles of Peru, swims in rivers (as seen in Mike's photos), and countless trips to WalMart around the world.

Yours will survive anything YOU'll be able to throw at it, rest assured.


Regards! Michaelson

[jnicktem]

Mike, those pictures are great! I should be getting my AB Deluxe in the next couple of months and I plan to wear it in the most brutal of climates, and it's nice to see how much abuse an AB can really take!

[Mike]

You're welcome guys. It was a blast. Just have to organize the rest of the photos and get a page up to post them…since I took more than 6…and I'll have a full gallery showcased in the scrapbook section. It was a bit of an adventure, and that's what that sections for!

I gotta get writing it though before it all escapes my noggin.

[Fedora]

Great pics! Now that sort of durability is what I have always strived to produce. A real deal, adventure hat. Mike has sent me the pics via email, and I saw them right before I logged on here. Thanks Mike!! And taken at the same spot as was used in Raiders. It doesn't get any better than that!

On the issue of the diet, my first thought would be no. Afterall, they eat bark and such, and their diet is limited to that sort of thing.

The variations in runs is attributable to workers. The hourly guys who make the felt. Probably along the lines of the old adage that cars made on Mondays are not as good as the ones made on a Wed. Or a car made on Fri. isn't as good as a Thurs. car. On Monday, the workers are still hung over from the weekend. On Friday, they have one thing on their mind, getting the next day off!! I am fairly sure this is the culprit on the variations we all see in felt. Fedora

[Restless Dreamer]

On the issue of the diet, my first thought would be no. Afterall, they eat bark and such, and their diet is limited to that sort of thing.

well, there is bark and bark. climate affects plants, pollution too, and many other factors. the bark of a tree in a city park is probably worse than the one of a tree on a canadian mountain.

but sure they way felt is produced is another - and probablt more important - factor

[Michaelson]

The variations in runs is attributable to workers. The hourly guys who make the felt. Probably along the lines of the old adage that cars made on Mondays are not as good as the ones made on a Wed. Or a car made on Fri. isn't as good as a Thurs. car. On Monday, the workers are still hung over from the weekend. On Friday, they have one thing on their mind, getting the next day off!! I am fairly sure this is the culprit on the variations we all see in felt. Fedora

Steve, I've told you before, and I honestly think YOU thought I was kidding. I was not. If you want to go with this theory, all you need to do is check when the local bass/fishing tournaments are going on in our area. I bet you'll find a coorelation between felt quality and when those tourney's take place regarding workers interest in felt quality, let alone who is at work and who is not.

Regards! Michaelson

[beaverlid]

The theory about the workers and the days of the week sounds pretty solid to me. People after all are people and I will say this, if I lived in Portugal I am sure after the fine assortment of beverages available I wouldn't feel like producing a quality product on monday morning either.

[Michaelson]

I live 12 miles from the Winchester, TN factory. THAT'S where the felt comes from that AB's are made from. Steve wasn't talking about workers in Portugal.

This is not a 'theory' I've written above. We have fishing season and professional bass tournaments at Tims Ford Lake (right over the hill from my house), and we have hunting seasons. Folks around here are religious in their following OF those seasons.

Regards! Michaelson

[Fedora]

This is not a 'theory' I've written above. We have fishing season and professional bass tournaments at Tims Ford Lake (right over the hill from my house), and we have hunting seasons. Folks around here are religious in their following OF those seasons.

Well, that would explain it very, very well!! I believe it too. Fedora

[Michaelson]

Well, heads up then. I'm seeing a lot of trucks parked along the side of the road on my drive to work of folks scouting for deer sign....so deer season is upon us once more in Franklin County, TN.

Regards! Michaelson

[beaverlid]

I live 12 miles from the Winchester, TN factory. THAT'S where the felt comes from that AB's are made from. Steve wasn't talking about workers in Portugal.

This is not a 'theory' I've written above. We have fishing season and professional bass tournaments at Tims Ford Lake (right over the hill from my house), and we have hunting seasons. Folks around here are religious in their following OF those seasons.

Regards! Michaelson

Ok, I might be a little slow sometimes but if the beavers are trapped in Canada, and then the felt is made in TN, how does it end up in Portugal? Sorry I think I am derailing my own thread.

[gwyddion]

As far as I understand it: the beavers are trapped in Canada, the pelts processed in Portugal an both a Portugal and a TN plant make hatbodies out of that fur.

Regards, Geert

[beaverlid]

As far as I understand it: the beavers are trapped in Canada, the pelts processed in Portugal an both a Portugal and a TN plant make hatbodies out of that fur.

Regards, Geert

I guess that makes sense. AB seems to prefer the portugal factory.

[Michaelson]

That is the correct 'chain of events'. The 'Portugal factory' separates the hair from the pelt, then the hair is sent to Winchester to make the felt. Winchester is the felt maker...NOT Portugal. As Geert said, Portugal only processes the pelts.

The felt is then sold to hat makers all over the U. S. and world wide.

Regards! Michaelson

[beaverlid]

Thanks guys on that info. It helps me understand just a little bit more all that goes into these hats being made. I would love to see how they actually make the felts from the loose hair fibers.

[gwyddion]

That is the correct 'chain of events'. The 'Portugal factory' separates the hair from the pelt, then the hair is sent to Winchester to make the felt. Winchester is the felt maker...NOT Portugal. As Geert said, Portugal only processes the pelts.

The felt is then sold to hat makers all over the U. S. and world wide.

Regards! Michaelson

True, but the plant in Portugal also sends fur to a plant in Portugal that makes the hatbodies Marc uses for the ABD. IIRC the plant that makes hatbodies for the European market is owned by the same family that owns the plant that sends the fur to Winchester

Regards, Geert

[Michaelson]

Really? Could be. Posted from Fedora's 'Portugal connection 'thread:

It seems that the fur used by our feltmaker comes directly from Portugal, from the same company that makes Marc's bodies. They have two separate installations. One, processes raw fur pelts into the fur used to make hats. The other side, uses this fur to make the bodies sold to various hatters around the world. So, it seems the fur that goes into both mine and Marc's bodies come from the same spot!

Regards! Michaelson

[XPLSV]

After losing my job due to cuts recently, I've accepted a position in Afghanistan for a year...I leave at the beginning of next month. If my AB shows up before I leave, it will leave with me. If not, my wife will forward it to me when it arrives. I'll have to post some pictures from Kabul in the future

[Fedora]

After losing my job due to cuts recently, I've accepted a position in Afghanistan for a year...I leave at the beginning of next month. If my AB shows up before I leave, it will leave with me. If not, my wife will forward it to me when it arrives. I'll have to post some pictures from Kabul in the future

You may see more ABs over there. I have sent alot of hats to our military boys, who then went to Iraq, and Afganistan. And as some may know, no matter when those military guys ordered, if I am told, I always pull their orders to the top. Afterall, they may not make it back to get their hat, if they did not get it prior to going. So shoot me for it!! Those guys are special guys, defending us the way they do. And risking their lives for us. It's the least that I can do. Fedora

[mcmanm]

Steve,

Good for you and don't apologize. As a veteran, I am proud of you for doing it. I would do the same.

Matt

[XPLSV]

After losing my job due to cuts recently, I've accepted a position in Afghanistan for a year...I leave at the beginning of next month. If my AB shows up before I leave, it will leave with me. If not, my wife will forward it to me when it arrives. I'll have to post some pictures from Kabul in the future

You may see more ABs over there. I have sent alot of hats to our military boys, who then went to Iraq, and Afganistan. And as some may know, no matter when those military guys ordered, if I am told, I always pull their orders to the top. Afterall, they may not make it back to get their hat, if they did not get it prior to going. So shoot me for it!! Those guys are special guys, defending us the way they do. And risking their lives for us. It's the least that I can do. Fedora

My career path being what it was during my 20 years in the Army, I never deployed to Iraq during either of the wars, or to Afghanistan. A little ironic, to me, that I'm heading over as a civilian. My hat is off to the guys who go out on patrol, who secure the border regions, who have to travel the dangerous raods as part of their daily mission. I should be city-bound for most of it, which is a different proposition thn what some of the other guys and gals are facing over there.

I'll keep my eyes out for ABs

Bernie