What is plain Fur Felt?

[NJIndy]

Sorry if this has already been addressed but searched and I didn't see anything...

What is "100% Fur Felt" or "Fine Fur Felt" or just "Fur Felt"?

On these boards there is a great effort to state clearly Beaver or Rabbit or Wild Hare (Akubra) but so many hats are listed with the terms above....

This came to mind as I was reading about the two Todd's Hats the Downtowner (100% Fur Felt) compared to the Uptowner (100% Rabbit Fur Felt)... There are many posts of the difference between the hats so I don't want this to become another one of those... but the terms for the felt confuse me a bit.

Is this a case of "You don't want to know what creature the felt came from"?

Is there ever a case that a hat marked "fur felt" may actually be lower in quality than a wool hat?

I keep thinking of the Seinfeld episode with George's "Mink" hat that he replaces with a "Rat " hat....

Thanks,
Pete

[DR Ulloa]

Typically it denotes rabbit fur felt. You never know though. I'm pretty sure Todd's Downtowner is rabbit.

Dave

[Mulceber]

Often times it denotes that the felt is a blend of rabbit and probably beaver. Or it could be just plain rabbit and they forgot to mention what type of fur. I doubt it's a case of "you don't want to know" as wool, rabbit and beaver are far and away the most common components of fur felt these days. -M

[Michaelson]

I, too, have to vote on the side of just plain domesticated rabbit.

Anytime there's ANYTHING blended into the rabbit felt, it's usually touted in their marketing/advertisements as being a 'beaver blend'. The percentage of beaver to rabbit could be miniscule, but they'll still say 'beaver blend'.

Nothing else mentioned, you can safely assume rabbit.

Regards! Michaelson

[Fedora]

Fur felt can mean anything. It can even mean wool is blended with other furs. South America is one place that makes the wool/rabbit fur felts.

In the past, and probably now, other substances can be used with fur, even synthetics that look fur like. Brings down costs of materials. And, you probably would never know the difference. (until later on)

In beaver blends, it only takes 20 per cent to give a hat the beaver feel. And, you cannot tell the difference in feel from a 20 per cent beaver hat to a 50 per cent beaver hat. As LLS told me our feltmaker told him recently. (great talking to you yesterday by the way LLS)

But bascially these days, fine fur felt, fur felt, etc, means there is fur in the hat. What kind? Probably rabbit.

[BendingOak]

Lets take your 3 terms and break them down.

First, there is no standard on how these terms are used.


This is what I have found out.

100% fur felt is just that but it could be a blend of a lot of things. Not a good mark for a high quality hat.

fur felt is just like 100% fur felt. Its a mix of a fur felts most likely and not a mark for high quality.

"fine fur felt"

I found that people use this when they want to use one sweatband for more that one fur felt hat type.

Example.

"fine fur felt"

could be used for pure beaver, pure rabbit or a blend of rabbit beaver but the quality should be there. Is it all the time, no.


I know when I started offering pure rabbit felt hats, I had to decide to add a new sweatband or to change the one that I use.

I started with this on a sweatband for my pure beaver felt hats

the Penman hat co.
handmade
from pure beaver felt

I then added for my rabbit felted hats

the Penman hat co.
handmade
from pure rabbit felt

I was going to drop the pure beaver felt one and use this for both

the Penman hat co.
handmade
from fine fur felt

See how that covers both with one sweatband.

I like being very clear so I opted for doing two sets one for each.

Those terms you post are not a lie but in some cases it's trying to use one sweatband for more than one fur type of hat. in other cases people try and beef up what it is that they are selling.



John

[Michaelson]

You could have said 'Penman Hats....made from animal hair'.

That way you're covered anyway you jump.





Regards! Michaelson

[BendingOak]

You could have said 'Penman Hats....made from animal hair'.

That way you're covered anyway you jump.





Regards! Michaelson

What happens when I do Panama hats?

[Michaelson]

Easy.

"It's made from, uh, don't worry about it!"

Regards! Michaelson

[binkmeisterRick]

You could have said 'Penman Hats....made from animal hair'.

Wouldn't that result in an orange hat?

[theinterchange]

Wouldn't that result in an orange hat?

No! You let the cat out of the bag! Penman was going to come out with an exclusive Garfield hat!

Randy

[Hollowpond]

I think Bink was referring to



Travis

[theinterchange]

I know, I just thought of Garfield when he said orange, especially in light of the recent thread about using pet fur for felt.

[DR Ulloa]

Easy.

"It's made from, uh, don't worry about it!"

Regards! Michaelson

Dave

[Fedora]

I was going to drop the pure beaver felt one and use this for both

the Penman hat co.
handmade
from fine fur felt

Yeah, me too, to cover both pure beaver and pure rabbit. Although "pure beaver" on a sweat looks better, and tells the customer he has a pure beaver hat. But the CS hats had fine fur felt, so too late to change now. I do note pure beaver inside the sweatband though.

What I would love to offer is a pure hare hat. Wild hare, I have been told is a step above rabbit, and some feltmakers like Akubra do blend some in with their rabbit. Probably the only company that does so these days. It would be a costlier fur to buy, because hares are wild animals, and most rabbit that is used are domesticated. Grown for food. So, the breeding that has been done on those rabbits was done for food in mind and not a good fur. Fedora

[NJIndy]

I appreciate all the replies...

I understand a little more but mainly that it is confusing for everyone...

Actually some answers have raised more questions...

If Akubra is the only felt maker to include wild hare in their rabbit felts and that is better, does that mean Akubra actually has a tougher felt than all 100% rabbit hats including many offered here for 3 times the cost?
(Don't shoot me, just asking ) Remember, just talking felt here...

Of course the workmanship and the finishing of a handmade hat adds much to the overall quality of the hat.
(ie, the quality of a hat is much more than just the felt)

Pete

[Fedora]

If Akubra is the only felt maker to include wild hare in their rabbit felts and that is better, does that mean Akubra actually has a tougher felt than all 100% rabbit hats including many offered here for 3 times the cost?

Well, first, Portugal probably offers this hare blend. Not sure. Marc would know. But, I doubt you would see it in any other hat, except a hat made from Portugal felt, or Akubra. And, I also think the hare is only in the Heritage line from Akubra.

I also think hare is a little better fur, because it is smaller in diameter than domesticated rabbit. Therefore, it can felt tighter. But, I am no expert on hare fur, just a general knowledge. And it could be that it is better suited for blending than just using it alone. Not sure. The blends were(are) an artform. That is, it really takes a well trained guy to blend just the right amount of each type of fur to arrive at a superior hat, over pure rabbit. There are I think, only 3 guys in the world that today are considered artists with their blends. One works for Tonak, but alas they just sell rabbit, so his artistry isn't taken advantage of. Another one is in Portugal, whom Marc knows well. The guy who makes the mink/beaver hats.

Of course the workmanship and the finishing of a handmade hat adds much to the overall quality of the hat.
(ie, the quality of a hat is much more than just the felt)

Yeah, I agree with a caveat. I would rather have a lower craftmanship hat made with the best felt than a highly crafted hat made with a cheap felt. Because you will eventually replace the ribbon, the sweat and the liner, but the hat body stays the same, and will exceed the original finish job, after a refurb. You can always finish out a poorly finished hat when the time comes for a refurb. Plus, a great felt will take many refurbs, where a cheap felt won't. They generally will tear. Fedora

[BendingOak]

Steve, I saw one of Marc's hats that he made with the Portugal beaver and a touch of Mink in it. It was a amazing hat and Marc did a fantastic job making the hat. The pounce was wonderful. If it was my size I would have never let it leave my hands.

[theinterchange]

You mean to say that it had "that touch of mink?"



Randy