Crystal Skull disarm

[knibs7]

Ok, so this has fascinated me since the first (of the 39 times I've seen CS) time I watched CS. Do y'all think it would really be possible for someone to wrap a whip around a machine gun and then have it flip into someone else's hands so that it is perfectly ready to aim like Indy does for Mac? I know Harrison actually did wrap the gun, but I wonder if the second part of the stunt (the flipping it to Mac part) was actually real or if it was CGI or had wires on it or something. Any thoughts?

Kyle

[JMObi]

When I was a school kid I got a friend to hold a piece of thick branch (about 2" dia. and 1.5 feet long) so I could 'whip it out of his hand' like Indiana Jones. I assured him I would not touch him at all with the whip and indeed I didn't. My intention was just to wrap the whip around the wood and pull it out of his hand. Well, I couldn't pull it out of his hand at all. He held tightly on to the stick while I tugged hopelessly away, the whip shortly slipping off. He looked at me as if to say "Is that it? Is that the best you can do?".

It is a simple tug of war, and the whip changes nothing. If I'd grabbed the piece of wood with my hand it would have been the same: whoever holds on tightest wins.

So I don't think the scene in the film is feasible...but then again if you're about to be riddled full of holes in a deserted desert warehouse, and you have a bullwhip in your hand, well, you may as well try, and pray for the best - an approach which Indiana Jones seems to find a lot of success with.

The only way a whip could properly do it would be if the tip hit the holder's hand or wrist, or else sheer surprise caused the person to let go. I was a bit dismayed in the experiment above that my wonderful whip was not quite so all-capable as I had thought it was. But then I read in a history book that an explorer and 'bush policeman' up in Australia's north had once been noted for having disarmed a man of a revolver, using his whip, thus making Indy for me at least partly believable (I don't now have this book, or know the title, but the policeman's name was D'Arcy Uhr).

[Mike]

Bear in mind that the original scene before cutting was to have the gun swing to fire on another Russian. This may have caught the soldier by surprise and caused his grip to slacken.

Still a cool scene either way, IMO. Vintage Indy.

After all, he was able to pull away a red-hot poker the same way.

[Marhala]

Ok, let's say you can pull the Tommy Gun from the rusky. But in my mind, it cannot be possible, because of the weight of the MG. You can't just pull an 11lb gun with the ease Harry did, and then place it in McHale's hands. I think after wrapping, he would have just dragged that heavy thing away from the bad guys' range. That would make for a very clumsy action scene.

All the best,

Aldo.

Still, I love that scene!

[Dangerman009]

To quote another movie, "It is possible, however unlikely..." It looks good, but unfortunately is very unlikely. As Marhala said, the 1928 A1 is a heavy gun. It would take a colossal pull to (a) break the hold of the...uh ...holder and (b) to pull it through the air. But that's the magic of movies. What's impossible/unlikely in real life happens to the hero (nearly) every day in a movie.

[RaidersBash]

the disarm of the red hot poker makes more sense, since Toht was holding it high and one handed, and the whip was pulling from behind. the body mechanics and leverage would have forced Toht to let go. Anyone who's done any martial arts will know what I'm saying, it's like doing a stick disarm or even a wrist lock because the body just can't move that way.

pulling a very heavy Thompson MG from a two hand gripped soldier at a hip ready position, no way. All it would have done is spun the soldier toward indy's direction, thus lining him up to be riddled with .45 slugs

[hollywood1340]

Sure it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpZFy4ZW06w

[RaidersBash]

Yes, it does help if the other person THROWS the gun to ya...

...do you pay him before hand, or after all the chaos is over...?

[McFly]

On my last trip to Fort Mac, Justin771 came with us and while we were messing around (he was in a CS style military uniform with "Adams" on his shirt) he came at me with a small plank which I wrapped and pulled away. The plank ~~flew!~~ out of his hands and hit me right in the upper chest! Needless to say I tried my best to duck, but was already laughing and took a good hit. It was pretty amazing.

I think it's possible, but may be reeeeally difficult to actually aim. Maybe it was just luck that Mac caught it?

Shane

[RaidersBash]

On my last trip to Fort Mac, Justin771 came with us and while we were messing around (he was in a CS style military uniform with "Adams" on his shirt) he came at me with a small plank which I wrapped and pulled away. The plank ~~flew!~~ out of his hands and hit me right in the upper chest! Needless to say I tried my best to duck, but was already laughing and took a good hit. It was pretty amazing.

I think it's possible, but may be reeeeally difficult to actually aim. Maybe it was just luck that Mac caught it?

Shane

That I could buy, because INDY has an INCREDIBLE amount of luck and hey, some people really do...i've never won the lotto, but some people have more than once

[Insomniac]

I think if it was a 12ft. or longer it might be plausible because of the thicker braiding it would have stronger grip on the gun would also allow Indy to exert more pull on the gun the flick to Mac would be hard but if they got in as many jams as they implied he would have had a couple of very effective disarming tricks at his disposal.

[Indiana County Jr.]

Keep in mind, the Jacka CS whip is very heavy (all of us who own one can attest to this!). I can see the disarm working, but not the gun jumping into Mac's hands.... Also, if you look close at the moment where Indy pulls back the whip, it does not look like he gave it enough force to really pull off the stunt very well. But then again, this is Indy and all bets are off when he steps up!

Crack On!
Allen

[Gorak]

Another thing to remember (film wise) is that, in Raiders Indt was already suppose to be "Master of the Bullwhip" so by the time Crytal skull came around I would imagine he would be the Ultimate Master! I have yanked many things out of peoples hands but my success came by mostly Element of Surprise( quickness, the loud crack, the fear of getting hit by what you already percieve as a painful weapon...)The most difficult part would be, being able to aim the object that you pull away.
I have always wondered what crack was used in the beggining of Raiders to disarm Barranca. Even slow motion DVD is difficult to judge.

[Marhala]

I have always wondered what crack was used in the beggining of Raiders to disarm Barranca. Even slow motion DVD is difficult to judge.

I have always interpreted it as a "reversed overarm flick". You lay the whip uncoiled in front of you, drag it by leveraging with your elbow fixed, let the loop form, and the whip will unroll to your back, perpendicular to your shoulder and crack. Right, and after or nearly after the whip cracks you're already aligning by rotating your body 180°. Me thinks...

And yes, Gorak, I concur with you, the surprise factor would play a big role in helping Indy disarm a guy.

All the best,

Aldo.

[EvilDean]

I have always wondered what crack was used in the beggining of Raiders to disarm Barranca. Even slow motion DVD is difficult to judge.

I have always interpreted it as a "reversed overarm flick". You lay the whip uncoiled in front of you, drag it by leveraging with your elbow fixed, let the loop form, and the whip will unroll to your back, perpendicular to your shoulder and crack. Right, and after or nearly after the whip cracks you're already aligning by rotating your body 180°. Me thinks...

And yes, Gorak, I concur with you, the surprise factor would play a big role in helping Indy disarm a guy.

All the best,

Aldo.

isnt it just a cattleman's crack? and if i understood you right... that is what u said xD please enlighten me if im wrong

[hollywood1340]

I've always seen it as a uncoiling the whip behind you off the belt, and doing a forward flick for the disarm. I don't think there was enough room above him for the Gypsy.

[thefish]

The problem with the opening crack in Raiders is that it is manufactured. I've watched it over and over and over again. For the actual filming, I'm pretty sure it's a flick, as James points out. But there is that shot where the whip is raised overhead, and the thong is distinctly curved forward, the way a whip is during the load phase of a cattleman's (or "Gypsy") crack. But the uncoiling from the belt, and the FEW frames where you see the whip snake forward, the whip SEEMS to be oriented to toward the back like with a flick.

But Spielberg LOOOOVVVEEEES his edits, and chances are, the shot of Indy's arm with the whip, and even the shot of Barranca's hand dropping the gun, and the gun rolling off into the water were probably not even shot at the time. They were probably pick-up shots done later either on THAT location as a second unit shot, or done weeks, maybe months later in some wooded aread of Burbank with a couple stand-ins doubling the arms, hands for Harrison and Vic.

We've already talked a lot about the continuity problem with the whip between the first and second unit on the truck chase, (is indy holding on to the fall-end of the whip while he's being dragged, or the handle-end? It's both, AND neither! Depends on the shot.)

Whether that shot is a flick or a gypsy crack...Same thing.

[JMObi]

Come to think of it, my experiment above (see 2nd post) was flawed because my friend had been told my intentions and was anticipating fully what I was trying to do. He would have been holding onto that stick with a grip like iron. Surprise would be a big factor in a real situation. I agree, it is a great scene in Indy 4 and I always enjoy watching it. I think the element of luck is part of the charm of that scene too.

[knibs7]

Ya I think that if you weren't expecting someone to crack a whip around your weapon, it would actually be possible. In real life it would probably go something like this:

"Oh this guy is trying to take out one of my own guys. - How do you like the feel of machine gun slugs in y..."
(Indy cracks whip)
"What the h*ll?!?!?! "
(Indy takes gun from soldier's hands)

Kyle

[Marhala]

isnt it just a cattleman's crack? and if i understood you right... that is what u said xD please enlighten me if im wrong

Well... yes and no. In a way, it is like starting the moves for a flick, but by turning the body, you actually "cut" the thong in the air, and it becomes a cattleman's (swing and cut). Now that you say so... I've never tried it. Perhaps I should go to the park to see if it's possible. Hope I won't whip the back of my head!

And Dan is very right. I always knew it was all edited, but never got to think that it wasn't this or that crack because it always made sense to me as possible.

Another possibility is to do the whole "reversed overhand flick", pull the gun from the bad guy and then turn the body.... Never mind...

All the best,

Aldo.

[Gorak]

Awesome replys....I guess the best method would be to try it. I,ve played with the move but can`t find a volunteer to help me expirement..Haha. Even though, if I was able to catch the pistol...I don`t think I could sweep it across my body then out into the river beside me. Suspending reality, I have to think that maybe, he just cracked the whip against Barranca`s hand and the wince made Barranca toss it up and out where it fell into the river........or maybe, just to stay on the Crystal Skull topic, he was trying to toss it to Satipo? Bringing the whole series back around! Darn conspiracy theories! Just kidding though!