Todd's Pants

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:08 pm

Okay, a no-brainer, of course I'm doing pants. I've been working on designing/sourcing them for more than a year now. I'll post details later when the project is completed - if ever. Don't ask me "when". They'll be done when they're done. I'm faced with a decision of material. The screen accurate side of me wants to go with 100% wool. The practical side of me wants to go with machine washable. Here's the poll - which would you prefer?

Here's another thought - the 100% wool is something special. The blends are not as unique. Even though the fabric will be custom loomed, and the weight/weave will be identical, there may be something special about the wool that the blends can't capture. Something to consider.

The poll's open for only 7 days - I don't want to keep the factory hanging.

Thanks!

Todd

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:16 pm

I voted practical, but actually, I want a couple pairs of each, 100% wool for special occasions and some 50/50's for more daily wear.

Ranger36 · Post by **Ranger36** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:21 pm

On one hand, I would prefer the screen accuracy. On the other, I like the practicality of a blend. I can't really decide.

What about doing a Standard and a Deluxe? Or something that that.

I'm so excited you're going to make pants! $\:D/$

TheExit148 · Post by **TheExit148** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:31 pm

I am all for the 100% wool option for SA. But personally for me, the Indy pants are too baggy for my normal casual/business casual clothes, and as of now I don't wear my Indy pants unless its for the whole outfit. So they won't been worn for everyday pants. And 100% wool pants are way better for the Canadian winters.

Guys... get the wool, just don't wash them all the time

Either way, looking forward to them Todd

MadKidJedi · Post by **MadKidJedi** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:32 pm

Todd-

You can borrow a quote from David Letterman now:

"We Make Pants."

But, on the subject... I too, like the idea of Standard (50/50) and Deluxe (full-wool). Given that I rarely wear my Indy-trousers anywhere other than events or for costuming... the need to dry clean would be rare... as I'd wanna keep 'em filthy for the proper look anyway! So I'm casting my vote for wool, regardless.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:34 pm

Sorry, guys, you have to pick one. I can't do two versions.

Ranger36 · Post by **Ranger36** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:35 pm

Darn. Maybe down the road?

Photoss · Post by **Photoss** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:58 pm

Personally, I want a pair of pants that are reasonably screen accurate, that I could use weekly, with lots of washings done at my house.

So my vote is obviously for the machine-washable material.

whipcracker · Post by **whipcracker** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:12 pm

I voted for wool. i mean it's cavalry twill, it's supposed to be wool. Besides wool is still a great go to material, it keeps you warm even when its cold and rainy and you are drenched (how do you think IJ survived those days in the water clutching the cross of Coronado.).

Also, isn't the 100% more durable. I seem to remember certain Evan Picone that was 100% wool (almost a dead ringer for the Washington suit in Raiders) it lasted my whole mission.

But... is there a big price difference?

Ranger36 · Post by **Ranger36** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:20 pm

Which would be more durable? I wouldn't care very much if it's not totally SA, if it could survive my adventures.

Indiana Jake · Post by **Indiana Jake** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:42 pm

Include me in on the 100% wool choice. We've analyzed over every other piece of gear on this forum as far as details are concerned, and not one vendor has gotten the pants right yet. The other fabric options IMHO are a compromise to getting the gear right. If I want compromise in Indy pants, I'd pick some up from anywhere that looked close enough. I say if you're going to do it, go all the way. If I sound a little opinionated, I'd like to see this one piece of my gear really done right. That being said, If someone offered cotton for warm seasons in the right color in a twill weave, I'd buy these too. I want my wool SA pants, I just can't see wearing them all of the time.

Sure, they will cost a little more, but most of us have spent quite a bit on accurate whips, jackets, boots and hats. Might as well get the pants right too.

I also agree with Tundra Raider. Getting the pants to fit loose through the thighs, and fitted around the waist would be the way to go. I tried on a pair of Wested pants that were not high enough in the rise, and did not quite reach at a proper waist height. Also the legs were too narrow and there was too much taper at the shoe/cuff. They need to look as if they are not too pegged, and be somewhat fuller cut. I would also add that to do the military hem properly, they would need to be offered unhemmed, with 5 inches longer than the normal pant length so there is plenty of room to allow for this.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=39008&p=569054&hil ... +hem#p5690 Military hem thread

Also, over on www.indylounge.com alkalijones has a great thread on the Indy pants details under their General Gear section. Nice of him to compile all of this great info.

Indiana Jake

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:51 pm

I voted for wool!

Glad you're finally taking these on, Todd!

Shane

maboot38 · Post by **maboot38** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:56 pm

Todd, if you can get these pants right, you will be even more my hero than you already are! The Wested and Magnoli pants are quite nice, but just imagine if you could really nail it and get the design perfect.

You would have found the holy grail!!!!

raider 57 · Post by **raider 57** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:59 pm

This great news! Pants are one gear item I only have "sorta close".
I vote for the 100% wool.
As others have mentioned, if we want SA pants, this would then be it.
If it really takes off big, you may be able to do the other materials later.

Dr._J · Post by **Dr._J** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:05 pm

I predicted years ago that one day Todds Costumes would be your "One-Stop-Indy-Shop". When these pants are completed, that will be true. Until he starts with ALL the props and other film versions of gear, that is.

By the way, I vote wool.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:20 pm

Indiana Jake wrote:Include me in on the 100% wool choice. We've analyzed over every other piece of gear on this forum as far as details are concerned, and not one vendor has gotten the pants right yet. The other fabric options IMHO are a compromise to getting the gear right. If I want compromise in Indy pants, I'd pick some up from anywhere that looked close enough. I say if you're going to do it, go all the way. If I sound a little opinionated, I'd like to see this one piece of my gear really done right. That being said, If someone offered cotton for warm seasons in the right color in a twill weave, I'd buy these too. I want my wool SA pants, I just can't see wearing them all of the time.

Sure, they will cost a little more, but most of us have spent quite a bit on accurate whips, jackets, boots and hats. Might as well get the pants right too.

I also agree with Tundra Raider. Getting the pants to fit loose through the thighs, and fitted around the waist would be the way to go. I tried on a pair of Wested pants that were not high enough in the rise, and did not quite reach at a proper waist height. Also the legs were too narrow and there was too much taper at the shoe/cuff. They need to look as if they are not too pegged, and be somewhat fuller cut. I would also add that to do the military hem properly, they would need to be offered unhemmed, with 5 inches longer than the normal pant length so there is plenty of room to allow for this.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=39008&p=569054&hil ... +hem#p5690 Military hem thread

Also, over on http://www.indylounge.com alkalijones has a great thread on the Indy pants details under their General Gear section. Nice of him to compile all of this great info.

Indiana Jake

I could make an extra pair out of those.

Short, regular and long lengths. Otherwise it doesn't work.

TheExit148 · Post by **TheExit148** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:42 pm

I think the key details for the Raiders pants are:

- Military Hem (if offered hemmed from Todd)
- SA Raiders pocket flaps, since no pants offer the perfect version
- Like Tundrarider has said, fitted through the waist, and looser (straight leg) through the thighs and legs
- The elusive Raiders pants colour IMO its like a taupey grey type colour with that slight slight pinkish hue
- 100% Wool calvary style (even though some people may be against this)

So... if I guess if those are covered, then we will have the best pair of Indy pants available.

Either way, I can sense that Todd's pants will be very very SA and at a nice price point as well.

whipcracker · Post by **whipcracker** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:57 pm

Yep I definitely think unfinished hem, but with a tutorial on how to do the correct military hem, and then you could have some already hemmed in standard lengths to. I have no doubt that you will do it as close to SA a inhumanly possible.

Ranger36 · Post by **Ranger36** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:29 pm

I decided to vote for wool.

BOINKFFD · Post by **BOINKFFD** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:27 pm

I voted for wool. This is the missing piece of my gear that I want to purchase next. I just purchased a shirt and web belt from you Sunday. Hoep they arrived soon.
Thanks, Geoff

jlhampton · Post by **jlhampton** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:08 pm

i vote 100% wool as well. that's what they were, that's what they should be.
i have been holding out for soooo long on the pants as no one has quite gotten it....perfect. the cut, the COLOR, and last, but not least, the price.
todd makes good stuff. i sure he'll get it right.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:36 pm

I say 100% wool. In the end, it's what people are going to want, especially if the color and weave are right. Look at what's available now; Wested's (which many complain have ever-changing detail inaccuracies and the wrong cut), and Magnoli's (often avoided because they are too light in color or too expensive). Both are nice, and I own both, but they just aren't quite there.

Just one request - normal sizing, please. Not weird, confusing sizing and a complete lack of consideration for anyone who isn't built like HF. PLEASE?????

(So far, I can't wear any of your Indy clothing and I really hate missing out on some of the best gear available).

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:56 pm

Wool

WinstonWolf359 · Post by **WinstonWolf359** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:10 pm

100% wool. There's no reason to try to make a pair of Indiana Jones pants and get side tracked halfway there.

There are plenty of "close enough" pants already out there that are "kinda" Indy, what the hobby needs is a pair that actually gets the fabric, fit, and color right.

RaidersBash · Post by **RaidersBash** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:28 pm

RaidersBash wrote:I voted practical, but actually, I want a couple pairs of each, 100% wool for special occasions and some 50/50's for more daily wear.

I changed my vote to SA Wool. The other guys are right, there are plenty of "close enough" khaki's out there. It would be nice to have some real vintage style officer pinks. Maybe someday you'll be able to do both styles, but for now I concur with the majority. You know I'm a fan of both who you are and what you do, and I can't hardly wait for these!!!

Indyzane · Post by **Indyzane** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:36 pm

Todd

Thanks for doing this and letting us help you. Your work is truely amazing and well worth ever penny I spend. I have purchased nearly everthing you have to offer. I voted for 100% wool. Most higher end dress pants are made out of wool and I love all the suits I have that are made out of wool. Good luck with this and hope to be seeing them soon on your site! Two request I have save a pair of 36 waist for me (lol) and please make the pocket flaps correct. That's all Todd thanks again!

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:35 am

I voted for the third option.....

Who the heck wants to have to take a pair of "adventure pants" to the dry cleaner everytime your out and get them dirty. Wool might be SA or whatever but it's not practical if you're going to be out wearing these and getting dirty in the process. I love the fact that I can just take my stuff home and throw it in the wash when I'm done....

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:02 am

I like the idea of 100% wool as it makes it closer to what Indy would've actually worn. That, and I prefer a truly "vintage" style of trousers. I could see getting a pair of these to use as everyday trousers, not just a costume piece.

Post by **Holt** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:08 am

oh, I am so exited that you FINALLY are going to do this.

I woted 50/50

but I really like the idea of it being original too.

why not make two?

one 100% wool and one 50/50?

djd · Post by **djd** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:16 am

Pitfall Harry wrote:I voted for the third option.....

Who the heck wants to have to take a pair of "adventure pants" to the dry cleaner everytime your out and get them dirty. Wool might be SA or whatever but it's not practical if you're going to be out wearing these and getting dirty in the process. I love the fact that I can just take my stuff home and throw it in the wash when I'm done....

I agree with this entirely. I have several pairs of Indy trousers but the ones I always tend to wear on 'adventures' are the ones I can wash in the machine when I get home

Ronski · Post by **Ronski** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:34 am

I voted wool. In my mind there are only 2 types of gear. SA and close enough. If you make a pair of pants that have everything right but the material, they're still only close enoughs.

WinstonWolf359 · Post by **WinstonWolf359** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:42 am

I really don't see how wool pants are any more labor intensive to care for than the leather jacket or felt hat. If the gear doesn't suit the adventure, pick different gear.

If you're really going out on "adventures" and getting really, really dirty, maybe officer's pinks aren't the right pants for you, no matter what they're made of.

Of course, if by "adventures" you mean dumping an entire bag of Fuller's Earth all over yourself and taking pictures so you can post them on the 'net I don't think a little hand washing is going to kill you.

djd · Post by **djd** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:48 am

I just mean going for a hike in the woods. The trousers need washing afterwards- my hat and jacket wouldn't. For me that's the only time I really wear my gear and therefore it's an important factor - for me.

If you want to dump fullers earth over yourself then feel free....

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:52 am

WinstonWolf359 wrote:Of course, if by "adventures" you mean dumping an entire bag of Fuller's Earth all over yourself and taking pictures so you can post them on the 'net I don't think a little hand washing is going to kill you.

Stay tuned for tonight's double feature: Indiana Jones and the Washing Machine of Doom followed by Indiana Jones and the Lost Sock.

nicktheguy · Post by **nicktheguy** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:05 am

Will these be offered in plaid?

Very excited for wool wool WOOL!

Alkali Jones · Post by **Alkali Jones** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:12 am

Hey Puppetboy,

Wool. 100% wool all the way. Polyester blends will pill in time. That looks so cheap. Puppetboy, if you get this right, I'll stop making and developing mine. I'm with those who said 5" of extra hem fabric. Please consult KT Tempars' pictures often. If your details deviate from those pictures, can you post photos here of your source pants details to justify the changes. Get the details right and the fabric type and color right and you'll be swamped with orders! Including mine. If you need pitures, please ask.

Dan S

sithspawn · Post by **sithspawn** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:34 am

100% wool ALL THE WAY. SA details and pockets and you'll have a customer for life. All the other venders have nice pants, but we REALLY need ,after all these years, are SA pants.

whipcracker · Post by **whipcracker** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:04 pm

Alkali Jones wrote:Hey Puppetboy,

Wool. 100% wool all the way. Polyester blends will pill in time. That looks so cheap. Puppetboy, if you get this right, I'll stop making and developing mine. I'm with those who said 5" of extra hem fabric. Please consult KT Tempars' pictures often. If your details deviate from those pictures, can you post photos here of your source pants details to justify the changes. Get the details right and the fabric type and color right and you'll be swamped with orders! Including mine. If you need pitures, please ask.

Dan S

I am with what Alkali Jones said. I have spent a little bit of time gazing into the depths of details in his other post on another site. I know you know what you are doing, but definitely take a close look at his research. I am thinking that when this is all over it would be cool to have a complete gear package.

Hmm, how would it look to do comparison shots of complete gear from each vendor and then mix and match to illustrate the differences. I love comparative analysis.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:23 pm

Alkali,

I'm glad you are enthusiastic about this project. I've used as my basis a pair of Noel Howard trousers which are made very much as the pair in the photos. That is to say, like "costume" pants. Speaking of photos, what is the source of the photos being shown? Is it certain which movie they are from? Judging by the damage, it looks like they were used under the truck. I hope the owner of the pictures does not mind if I use them as source material.

Next question: were these pants worn by Ford? Are they "hero" pants? Are we certain that the hero pants weren't a little nicer (i.e. lining)?

I'm glad I posted this poll! I had heard from so many that they wanted machine washable, everyday pants. It was impossible to know how many wanted this. I should have trusted my instinct. I always have before. I don't know why I didn't this time. My philosophy has always been to make the most SA (as I understand it) gear possible. That is, "possible for me" to supply. I'm no David Morgan, for example, but I offer the best I can.

Todd

theinterchange · Post by **theinterchange** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:35 pm

I voted easy care, machine wash, but having 100% wool wouldn't stop me from purchasing.. just would be easier to care for since I rarely take anything to the cleaners.

Randy

Indiana Jake · Post by **Indiana Jake** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:54 pm

Puppetboy,

The Noel Howard pants are really as close as anything in my opinion. So this is a good place to start. The pocket flap shape on the rear of My Noel Howard pants does not quite look like the one in the photos or the films.

Gee what color do you choose? The Raiders darker color or the TOD/LC lighter color?

Indiana Jake

Dragonlady Jones · Post by **Dragonlady Jones** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:53 pm

I'm not into the whole SA thing, but I am very much into practicality.

Voted #3.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:10 pm

Indiana Jake wrote:Puppetboy,

The Noel Howard pants are really as close as anything in my opinion. So this is a good place to start. The pocket flap shape on the rear of My Noel Howard pants does not quite look like the one in the photos or the films.

Gee what color do you choose? The Raiders darker color or the TOD/LC lighter color?

Indiana Jake

I agree. My NH pants are the best of the lot that I have.

As for color; again it comes down to what do we NEED in the market. So, if there is a choice, I think it should be the darker Raiders version. It's the color that everyone cpmplains they can't find. Witness all the "they're too light" comments on this board.

TheExit148 · Post by **TheExit148** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:30 pm

I'm with Chewie on this one. The Raiders pants colour is the hardest to find out there. It really seems like that most of the Raiders gear was hard to come by...

Either way, I think the Raiders pants are the best, especially since most of Todd's clothing pieces are Raiders stuff anyway.

IndianaSean · Post by **IndianaSean** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:36 pm

I love SA, however I would prefer durability over SA. I know that may fall under heresy.

But I voted wool. I am soooo excited to how these turn out!

oh..wow..I need to get an avatar up... oops.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:37 pm

Color is a tough nut to crack. I have several pairs of vintage officer's pinks here, and the colors vary. Most are more gray or green than the NH fabric. But I decided to color match the NH because it stands to reason that he would have used the same supplier as B&N's. Unless someone knows differently, that's all I have to go on. Again, it's nearly impossible to get true colors on film. Just wait until they come out with the restored Raiders on Blu-ray - who knows what color they will be then!

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:40 pm

Can we be sure about the colour? Filters have a huge effect on this kind of fabric.

IMO the ToD and Raiders are very similar, the LC seemed to be more camel coloured, but it could all be down to film stock.

You can see from my pics of the NH screen ones, just moving them around a room gave completely different colours, then there was the difference between flash and the just room lighting too.

Yup Todd, just posting when you were.

TheExit148 · Post by **TheExit148** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:43 pm

I personally think that the Raiders pants are a more grey colour, then what is seen in the other films. In the movie, in the outdoor scenes they look more browny/taupe, but indoor scenes they look grey with a hint of brown and that slight pinkish hue. And yes, Todd is compeletly right, when those Blu-ray's come out of the original trilogy, we either have gotten a lot of correct coloured gear or we are in for a BIG shock

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:48 pm

Thanks, KT. Can you give me more info on these pants? Do you think they are from Raiders? As I mentioned, from the tears, they look like they were dragged under a truck. I can't think of another stunt in the film that would have ripped up a pair of trousers that way. How about a label? Was Ford's name inside the pants? Do you think they were stunt pants?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:00 pm

Some one else managed to get a shot of the label in them it was a Western Costumes label and I believe it said Harrison Ford, size 34.

Others have looked at the flaps and said they are Raiders ones. They do have a nice scallop and quite a deep point.

Choice of pants material