Which one....

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:54 am

I use to be on the forum back in the early days as Only Looking and now I'm Ark Lover as the forum use to be aviable to view without the loggon and I didn't have much to say but the information I received was always ahead of my questions..so I didn't have to.The offering for the Indiana Jones hat has changed alot since I last was on here.Now beens I'm going with the RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK look, no fighting now.What hat is the closet in color and felt to the orignal.I know Indiana Holt and Fedoraiders has the SOC look down to T on looks, so I know that with some amazing work..alot of hats could look like that.With that being said..I don't have the money for alot of hats, I want THE ONE, at least for me.I know the original was talked about rabbit fur,etc. So what hat is the hat to buy for the raw elements to the hat..not styleing..but color and felt only and of course the ribbon..I wear a 7 1/2 or a 7 5/8 depending o the hat..if that helps.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:26 pm

The closest hat you can find to the original Raiders hat is the Magnoli HJ, which is completely remade by Steve Delk. He uses really floppy rabbit fur and has one of the most accurate blocks around. A Penman rabbit would be a great choice too.

That being said, if you only want one hat then I recommend going with beaver. Rabbit will not hold up the way beaver does. And it does distress, though many believe it won't. Just look at my AB in the SoC thread. If you only want one hat, I recommend going with either Penman or AB. They are the only guys with SA ribbon (and AB Deluxe) and the color of the hat will fade to the SA color with time. Hats that have a SA color now will not be SA in color later.

Dave

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:11 pm

I love Magnoli's attention to detail and REALLY want one of his escape from NY jackets, it's just that they are a little expensive. AB henry,deluxe..isn't one like a rabbit/beaver blend? Got a link to the Penman

lantzn · Post by **lantzn** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:20 pm

ark lover wrote:I love Magnoli's attention to detail and REALLY want one of his escape from NY jackets, it's just that they are a little expensive. AB henry,deluxe..isn't one like a rabbit/beaver blend? Got a link to the Penman

http://www.penmanhats.com/Home_Page.html

I just ordered a Penman Gray (ROTLA Court steps at end) to wear at my son's wedding this November. John's a GREAT guy and fun to talk to. I live in WA about 2 hours from his house and plan on taking my grandsons down to see his operation soon and to pay for the hat in person. I'm looking forward to it!

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:25 pm

ark lover wrote:What hat is the closet in color and felt to the orignal.With that being said..I don't have the money for alot of hats, I want THE ONE, at least for me.I know the original was talked about rabbit fur,etc. So what hat is the hat to buy for the raw elements to the hat..not styleing..but color and felt only and of course the ribbon..I wear a 7 1/2 or a 7 5/8 depending o the hat..if that helps.

I'd get a Christy's in 'light sable' or 'cork'. In doing so, you save at least $200-$260 from the outset. Then I'd send it to one of our prestigious hatters for a re-block on their new Raiders block, re-ribbon with the SA replacement one, and a new sweatband, especially if you might be using it alot.

The Christy's is basically a generic HJ.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:29 pm

Problem with that is that Steve only reblocks his own ABs and John doesn't work on the Christy's because of the risk of ripping the brim right off. Unless he has changed his mind, I don't think he will.

The AB Henry is a good choice and you can buy it here in the states from John Penman. The 20 percent beaver content makes it a bit more durable but still reacts like a rabbit hat.

Dave

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:58 pm

Well I'm guessing that beens the Penman is screen accurate (or will be with a little wear), screen accurate ribbon. I'm guessing the rabbit/beaver blend would be the closest to the movie felt, or is the 100% beaver the way to go? My nead mesures 23 3/4" (that's a snug measurement/leaves a tape mark inprint on forehead). I wear a 7 5/8 ballcap but it's not sung..I own a 7 1/2 old stetson taht was a Indiana Jones (ARK) I believe and it stretched out to my head..and it fits like a glove. Does Penman go so far as a certain scene look or an overall movie look? I love Raiders but I really want that SOC look (I like how the hat bulges out from the sides above the ribbon) from the straight on look..Indian Holt has that look nailed.Plus the tight pinch and the little bulge in front, are those things one had to put in the hat themselves or do you tell him what you want..send some photos and WHAM you get it?Plus are the brim/sides measurements something he does himself or do you have to supply that stuff?Ive heard he's top notched at customer service.

Soup · Post by **Soup** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 2:15 pm

Penmans would be a good choice, I'm sure BendingOak would be glad to assist you........

Regards,

Soup

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:01 pm

Penman does not offer a rabbit/beaver blend felt. John does sell the Henry here in thes states though. If you want a Penman, then it will have to be either pure rabbit or pure beaver. I'd say go with beaver. I'll be posting new pics of my SoC AB in a few so maybe you'd want to check those out. The AB beaver and Penman beaver is the same. This will give you an idea of how well the beaver can look like the SoC hat. Also, if you go to the Penman Hat Co.'s facebook, there are plenty of pics of John's own hat which looks terrific. You can check out my beaver Raiders Penman as well as a bunch of other in the Penman Post 'em Up thread.

Dave

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:52 pm

Texan Scott wrote:
ark lover wrote:What hat is the closet in color and felt to the orignal.With that being said..I don't have the money for alot of hats, I want THE ONE, at least for me.I know the original was talked about rabbit fur,etc. So what hat is the hat to buy for the raw elements to the hat..not styleing..but color and felt only and of course the ribbon..I wear a 7 1/2 or a 7 5/8 depending o the hat..if that helps.
I'd get a Christy's in 'light sable' or 'cork'. In doing so, you save at least $200-$260 from the outset. Then I'd send it to one of our prestigious hatters for a re-block on their new Raiders block, re-ribbon with the SA replacement one, and a new sweatband, especially if you might be using it alot.

The Christy's is basically a generic HJ.

You are assuming that they would do that. I'm not working on Christy's and if I did it would cost.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:04 pm

If you want the very best and the word "best " should mean the same to everyone. They very best material and I think I saw that in your post. The very "best" material is the Adventurebilt delux by Marc Kitter. You will be hard press to find better craftsmenship than his. his block, ribbon and attention to detail are spot on. His felt is to die for and goes to great effort to bring that attention to detail in every little aspect of his hats. I try my
and he is one of two people that I try to aspire to be like when making a Indy hat or any hat that I make. The phrase " it's good enough'' will never come out of his mouth.

I would not spend my money on a Christy's thinking it's going to be re-worked to be what you want because it will be but not for the long haul. I agree if you don't have a lot of money and can't try different labels your self. Do two things. Ask people who have had many and start at the top and work you way down the ladder. In the long run you will save money.

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 4:18 pm

Hey Dave can't wait to see your 100% beaver felt SOC Penman, probably what I'll end up getting. Hey BendingOak you'll probably be hearing from me pretty soon.I saw your youtube video where you wad your hat up and stomp the fullers earth out of it and then casually dust it off and pop it back into shape.Laughed my head off and was like OMG.Awesome.I'm going for RAIDERS screen accurate as possible for color,block,and ribbon so FOR ME AND ME ONLY..I'm narrowing it down to The Henry (For the rabbit/beaver blend) and the 100% beaver Penman.All the aspects I want are in both hats.Though I have heard the original was a blend, but seeing the youtube video and how soft 100% beaver could be, plus the fact 100% beaver is longer lasting..it may win over.Once I decide I hope I don't bug you too much BendingOak. I do appreciate your opinions, Marc and you have the highest customer approval ratings of anyone I know.Plus you both never say well mine are right/better,etc. you guys are always giving other vendors credit and that SOUNDS LOUDLY for me. I want the right look, I have waited MANY years for a hat this close...waiting WILL NOT BE AN ISSUE..trustme

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:22 pm

Tundrarider wrote:Advice of this kind is difficult, as what is "best" varies so from person to person. TOH:

...classic example of 'define the parameters?' how MUCH money, etc.?

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:42 pm

For me..no offense to anyone.But the Penman is about as high (cost wise) as I could go. I just don't have the money for several hats..so I need "THE ONE "/at least for me. I'm not saying that the other hats aren't worth the price, I just can't swing that much..plus my wife would have vital parts of my anatomy removed and placed into a jar.

"It wasn't my hands..it was ugh....a misunderstanding"

mcmanm · Post by **mcmanm** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:27 pm

I own 3 Penmans and all are beaver. The last one I bought was the Raiders on the latest block. I'm sure the "Henry" is a great hat and actually thought about getting one instead of another one of John's. Believe me when I say it is well worth the extra few bucks. If money is the issue, you cant do any better for the quality, craftsmanship, customer service of John's custom hats. Order now so you can have it before the holidays

Just got back from being out of town. Will post pics of the hat this weekend.

Matt

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:58 pm

ark lover wrote: I'm going with the RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK look....What hat is the closet in color and felt to the orignal. ....I don't have the money for alot of hats, I want THE ONE, at least for me. I know the original was talked about rabbit fur,etc. So what hat is the hat to buy for the raw elements to the hat..not styleing..but color and felt only and of course the ribbon....

When I read your post, I read....."color and felt"....Christy/HJ

....."don't have alot of money"......budget conscious....Christy

....."original"....."rabbit fur".......Christy/HJ.....rabbit fur or Penman rabbit

..."raw elements"........again, C/HJ or Penman rabbit

"color".....only one providing many different colors and hues of brown....Christy

"ribbon".....hands down......Penman or AB....only ones who use the SA ribbon

If you want to talk about the BEST MADE hats....no question, the handmade Penman & AB's, but I did not read that into your post.

Entirely your choice, but i'm just showing you how I read your post. If Penman is your choice, can't go wrong.

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:43 pm

Sorry should have been more precise on my wording.I also wanted block as well and I've learned every hat has it's own little something to it that makes it tug you this way..then another hat tugs you this way..can be very daunting. I appreciate everyone's help and information..lots of great hats on this site. Anyone got a link or photo of the christy/HJ ?I assume if the orignals were rabbit everyone is going with beaver or rabbit/beaver blend for longevity? I'm confused on that pont..don't mean to be dense..sorry

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:03 am

beaver is a much more durable felt and will not taper like rabbit felt. Beaver also withstands the elements like rain much more. If you live in an area with lots of weather, ie moisture, beaver may be your best choice. Considering longivity, it should last much longer and hold up better than the pure rabbit would.

The AB Henry is 20% beaver and 80% rabbit, so the beaver felt is used to reinforce rabbit and make it more water repellant. It adds 'stability' to the felt. The 80% rabbit felt makes it floppy, like some of us are used to.

I have a Penman beaver. It was reblocked recently, and it is mellowing nicely with age. John did a good job on it. My hat was the one he stomped all over!

His distressing method.

He gets upset with me, then takes it out on my hat!

That's the ONLY thing I don't like about dealing with Penman, or 'John' as I call him.

It just really depends on the features you most want in the hat, then go for broke!

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:05 am

ark lover wrote:I assume if the orignals were rabbit everyone is going with beaver or rabbit/beaver blend for longevity? I'm confused on that pont..don't mean to be dense..sorry

Exactly. A well-made beaver fedora should last you for a VERY long time with a little care. With the rabbit/beaver blend, you're trading off some of that longevity for the "floppiness" that rabbit brings to the table. Although, my latest Penman Raiders in beaver is already pretty soft and should be really soft with some wear.

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:26 am

Hey Crismans, where in KY do you live? I live in elizabethtown. Hey Scott, now I know why all your destressing and dirt on your Indy hats are always in shoe shape!!

I wonder how the Henry (with the blend) with last as far as to not taper? I guess the best thing is to beat and wear the beaver til it breaks in with some age hugh.Thanks again guys.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:23 am

ark lover wrote:I also wanted block as well and I've learned every hat has it's own little something to it that makes it tug you this way..then another hat tugs you this way..can be very daunting.

Well, I think John has the best Raiders block, followed closey by Steve. Now, I haven't held a hat blocked on one of Steve's new Raiders blocks, but my Raiders Penman was reblocked on the new one. From photos I've seen of the AB block, the Penman wins. There are nuance differences that most probably won't notice, but they are there. Oh, and my beaver SoC hat is an AB, not Penman. I was just giving an example of how beaver can become as floppy as rabbit, which since you saw John's video you now know. You can still check it out in the SoC display thread, though, if you are interested.

Dave

darthbish · Post by **darthbish** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:18 am

So how does Beaver compare to the "Heritage" variety of rabbit felt that Akubra use in the Fed Deluxe??...

This is from the HatsDirect website in relation to the Heritage Grade rabbit felt.

This felt is a relatively recent addition and is made from finer fibres taken from a select part of the rabbit pelt and mixed with the native Hare resulting in a grade which is denser and smoother than the Imperial grade. Parts of the pelt not required are discarded. It is more stable over time and less prone to shrinkage and distortions such as the tapering of the crown.

The Heritage Grade is the closest rabbit fur grade to Beaver Felt.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:39 am

I don't know if the Heritage grade felt is more durable but it is finer. No rabbit felt will hold up like beaver though. Beaver will outlive rabbit no matter how good that rabbit felt is.

Dave

mcmanm · Post by **mcmanm** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:23 am

The Raiders hat John sent last week almost fooled me. It was so soft I didn't think it could be beaver. I have a beaver CS from him and it still has some of the stiffness you would expect. I really thought it was rabbit when I put them side by side.

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:58 am

The black hat John made for my wedding is like that. You look at it and the crease changes. I told him to make this third hat I have on order as floppy as humanly possible, among thirty thousand other things I've requested with this hat...I think he needs a break from me and my hats for a while.

Dave

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:57 am

Texan Scott wrote:beaver is a much more durable felt and will not taper like rabbit felt. Beaver also withstands the elements like rain much more. If you live in an area with lots of weather, ie moisture, beaver may be your best choice. Considering longivity, it should last much longer and hold up better than the pure rabbit would.

The AB Henry is 20% beaver and 80% rabbit, so the beaver felt is used to reinforce rabbit and make it more water repellant. It adds 'stability' to the felt. The 80% rabbit felt makes it floppy, like some of us are used to.

I have a Penman beaver. It was reblocked recently, and it is mellowing nicely with age. John did a good job on it. My hat was the one he stomped all over! His distressing method. He gets upset with me, then takes it out on my hat! That's the ONLY thing I don't like about dealing with Penman, or 'John' as I call him.

It just really depends on the features you most want in the hat, then go for broke!

Scott's joking. That hat in the video is my own hat and i wouldn't beat up a customers hat unless we worked that out in advance.

I have my felter putting in the least amount of stiffener as possible. Then I remove a bit during the making of the hat. If I remove any more it would never hold a crease. There is so little that the creases are easy to pop out during shipping.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:03 am

BendingOak wrote:
Texan Scott wrote:beaver is a much more durable felt and will not taper like rabbit felt. Beaver also withstands the elements like rain much more. If you live in an area with lots of weather, ie moisture, beaver may be your best choice. Considering longivity, it should last much longer and hold up better than the pure rabbit would.

The AB Henry is 20% beaver and 80% rabbit, so the beaver felt is used to reinforce rabbit and make it more water repellant. It adds 'stability' to the felt. The 80% rabbit felt makes it floppy, like some of us are used to.

I have a Penman beaver. It was reblocked recently, and it is mellowing nicely with age. John did a good job on it. My hat was the one he stomped all over! His distressing method. He gets upset with me, then takes it out on my hat! That's the ONLY thing I don't like about dealing with Penman, or 'John' as I call him.

It just really depends on the features you most want in the hat, then go for broke!

Scott's joking. That hat in the video is my own hat and I wouldn't beat up a customers hat unless we worked that out in advance.

I have my felter putting in the least amount of stiffener as possible. Then I remove a bit during the making of the hat. If I remove any more it would never hold a crease. There is so little that the creases are easy to pop out during shipping.

I think he stated he wanted "the One hat" for him. He didn't want to waste his money so, he wanted to buy one hat and thats it. My suggestion was go to the top and work your way down.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:41 pm

When I read your post, I read....."color and felt"....Christy/HJ

....."don't have alot of money"......budget conscious....Christy

....."original"....."rabbit fur".......Christy/HJ.....rabbit fur or Penman rabbit

..."raw elements"........again, C/HJ or Penman rabbit

"color".....only one providing many different colors and hues of brown....Christy

"ribbon".....hands down......Penman or AB....only ones who use the SA ribbon

That's a great answer. We need to add LLS too. He uses rabbit.

The best, to me, in color, block, ribbonwork, type of felt would be what Indy Mag is selling, under the HJ name, but may be price prohibitive, if price is part of the deal. But, the color is sable, that was supposed to be the original color, the felt is still rabbit, but closer in thickness to the Raiders fedora(the new more substantial felt Indy Mag is using now) and it has the right name in it, for the Raider fedora, i.e. H.J. These hats are still new here, considering the new felt being used, but I think once a few Cow guys do some reviews, it will get more popular. Fedora

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:01 pm

ark lover wrote:now I know why all your destressing and dirt on your Indy hats are always in shoe shape!!

...I just tell them that I tried the truck stunt from Raiders but it didn't work out.

Thanks, Fedora. I forgot about ol' Luke's Light Sabre?

I guess I missed the frenzy awhile back.

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:04 pm

The best, to me, in color, block, ribbonwork, type of felt would be what Indy Mag is selling, under the HJ name, but may be price prohibitive, if price is part of the deal. But, the color is sable, that was supposed to be the original color, the felt is still rabbit, but closer in thickness to the Raiders fedora(the new more substantial felt Indy Mag is using now) and it has the right name in it, for the Raider fedora, i.e. H.J. These hats are still new here, considering the new felt being used, but I think once a few Cow guys do some reviews, it will get more popular. Fedora[/quote]
Fedora, you and BendingOak and a few others but you two for me speak volumes in wisodm in looking at these hats with a fine tooth comb..but you both NEVER claim or assume you know all there is to know and are NEVER to busy to ask the questions that keep on getting asked..over and over..for that I salute you both. I love the look of Indy Mag's fedora..but don't Penman,Ab, and his all use the same vintage ribbon,Raiders block, and offer Rabbit or rabbit/beaver blend, and the color..all appear to have that hint of red hue in certain lighting..aside from the extra money what fine detail other than it carrying the HJ label does it bring to the table? (I'm kind of afraid of shrinkage now..concerning the rabbit felt..if my hat got wet..I would be like George on Seinfeld..

I really wish someone had one to really review and compare side by side to a AB Henry or a Penman.I may have to wait even longer till more info comes out.I'm starting to feel like the old knight from the Last Crusade.

darthbish · Post by **darthbish** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:42 pm

DR Ulloa wrote:I don't know if the Heritage grade felt is more durable but it is finer. No rabbit felt will hold up like beaver though. Beaver will outlive rabbit no matter how good that rabbit felt is.

Dave

No offense Dave, but I'd like to know what Oak or Fedora think of this too....

Can they shed any light on this mysterious "Heritage Grade" felt, or is it jusr a marketing tool invented by Akubra??

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:54 pm

Totally understandable, bish. No one knows felt like those two.

Arklover, the ribbon is the same, but the Mag/HJ uses different felt. At this time, Steve does not offer rabbit. John does offer rabbit but it is different from the Magnoli HJ. Steve uses his block on the Mag/HJs but John's block is his own; it is different.

Dave

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 12:56 am

about my rabbit felt compared to akurba. My felt is much ,ore durable and will not bleed when wet like the fed. I have water blocked the fed and wished I didn't. I will not reblock a fed like I would re-block my own.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:29 am

Fedora, you and BendingOak and a few others but you two for me speak volumes in wisodm in looking at these hats with a fine tooth comb..but you both NEVER claim or assume you know all there is to know and are NEVER to busy to ask the questions that keep on getting asked..over and over..

With a craft like hatmaking, you are always learning. Neither of us will ever know it all. Because, just when you feel like wearing your hat cocked to the side, with the idea that you are on top of it, something new will come along. Like a variation in a run of felt that you never saw before!! So, you have to figure out HOW you must work this felt, in order to be consistent with your product. Different felt, requires different techniques, and still every now and then, you get in bodies that need different treatments to remain consistent. That is just the nature of the hat biz these days. Probably was always like that though, going by the books I have read. Felted fur, unlike other textiles, can have so many variations, and throw so much stuff at ya. So, you are constantly learning, although the frequence does drop over time, as you see more...a learning curve that does lessen.

And speaking for all of us, we don't mind answering the same questions over and over. But, that is probably because we all started maing hats because of our love for the Indy fedora. Or just hats in general. I am sure if we just started our hatmaking, to make money, or find a profession, we might feel differently. But the hatmakers here do it because we love it. And what goes with that is the love of talking about hats, expecially the Indy fedora.

Can they shed any light on this mysterious "Heritage Grade" felt, or is it jusr a marketing tool invented by Akubra??
DR Ulloa wrote:I don't know if the Heritage grade felt is more durable but it is finer. No rabbit felt will hold up like beaver though. Beaver will outlive rabbit no matter how good that rabbit felt is.

Dave
No offense Dave, but I'd like to know what Oak or Fedora think of this too....

Can they shed any light on this mysterious "Heritage Grade" felt, or is it jusr a marketing tool invented by Akubra??

To my understanding, the Heritage line just uses a higher quality rabbit fur, and I think it has wild hare added too. And I think the Heritage line uses more back fur from the critter. On a rabbit or hare, the best fur comes from the back of the animal. On a water animal, the best comes from the belly. But in the manufacture of felt, these various furs are mixed together. So, the Heritiage line has more back fur, plus some added wild hare fur. Hare is generally considered to be better than domestic raised rabbits, as any wild fur is better than tame fur. Probably because the wild critters evolved a finer fur for protection from the elements.

Another thing that may be in the Heritage line is the sorting of furs. Fur is run through air blown sorters, with several different compartments. As it proceeds down the line, the outer fur is heavier and drops away, while the finer moves on with the air flow. The farther it moves down the line, the finer the fur is that makes it to the last holding box. If you pull fur from the 3rd collector, it will be finer than what came from the second. And if pull fur from the 4 box, it is finer still, until you reach the last box that contains the finest fur. If you have ever seen a hat with the outer hair, showing itself on the inside of the crown, that's using the minimal sorting, and is a lower quality hat. So, I think the Heritage line is using the finer furs, whereas the Imperial line is using courser furs.

So the Heritage line is not a marketing ploy. It actually uses the finer furs for the hats. And generally this means a more dense rabbit hat, as finer furs felt tighter than less fine fur. Fedora

darthbish · Post by **darthbish** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:46 pm

Cheers Fedora, I knew you could enlighten me/us

crismans · Post by **crismans** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:01 pm

ark lover wrote:Hey Crismans, where in KY do you live? I live in elizabethtown. Hey Scott, now I know why all your destressing and dirt on your Indy hats are always in shoe shape!! I wonder how the Henry (with the blend) with last as far as to not taper? I guess the best thing is to beat and wear the beaver til it breaks in with some age hugh.Thanks again guys.

About 30 miles south of Somerset. There's a few of us KY fans on here!

darthbish · Post by **darthbish** » Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:56 pm

Fedora wrote: To my understanding, the Heritage line just uses a higher quality rabbit fur, and I think it has wild hare added too. And I think the Heritage line uses more back fur from the critter. On a rabbit or hare, the best fur comes from the back of the animal. On a water animal, the best comes from the belly. But in the manufacture of felt, these various furs are mixed together. So, the Heritiage line has more back fur, plus some added wild hare fur. Hare is generally considered to be better than domestic raised rabbits, as any wild fur is better than tame fur. Probably because the wild critters evolved a finer fur for protection from the elements.

ok..........silly question #4386....
are all beavers used in felt production trapped in the wild??
(not having any of the lovely critters "down here", I wouldn't know)

Hollowpond · Post by **Hollowpond** » Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:57 am

darthbish wrote:
Fedora wrote: To my understanding, the Heritage line just uses a higher quality rabbit fur, and I think it has wild hare added too. And I think the Heritage line uses more back fur from the critter. On a rabbit or hare, the best fur comes from the back of the animal. On a water animal, the best comes from the belly. But in the manufacture of felt, these various furs are mixed together. So, the Heritiage line has more back fur, plus some added wild hare fur. Hare is generally considered to be better than domestic raised rabbits, as any wild fur is better than tame fur. Probably because the wild critters evolved a finer fur for protection from the elements.
ok..........silly question #4386....
are all beavers used in felt production trapped in the wild??
(not having any of the lovely critters "down here", I wouldn't know)

Maybe you guys could felt platypus fur!

How many platypusses (or is that platypi

) would it take to have enough felt for a hat?

Travis

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:32 pm

Well I've narrowed it down to a Henry or a Penman (100% Beaver) either on I choose will be bought from Penman Hats. The blocks are slightly different but close,same ribbon,same color felt or close, both would be a great SOC Raiders hat..so the internal debate continues!

Almost there..waiting for a few more post and pictures and I'll be finished...maybe.LOL

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:14 pm

The Henry and the Penman have their own display threads. There are pletny of pics of the Penman to see there. The Henry has a few pics, but only some creased by Oak. Steve has some pics of his Henry creased by him. These pics, the ones of John and Steve creasing the hats, are good indicators of what the hat is capable of, and it is substantial.

Dave

Texan Scott · Post by **Texan Scott** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:26 pm

ark lover wrote:Well I've narrowed it down to a Henry or a Penman (100% Beaver) either on I choose will be bought from Penman Hats. The blocks are slightly different but close,same ribbon,same color felt or close, both would be a great SOC Raiders hat..so the internal debate continues! Almost there..waiting for a few more post and pictures and I'll be finished...maybe.LOL

TOUGH decision!

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:40 am

I'm waiting on your photos Dave..gonna put some extra stress on you!

LOL Can't wait till your new addition is added on here.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:17 am

ark lover wrote:Hey Crismans, where in KY do you live? I live in elizabethtown.

You're about 4 hours north-northeast of me, ark lover. I drive past you every time I drive up to check on my Mom in Portsmouth, Ohio.

Bottom line for me is, in our 'area', you can get away with either beaver, beaver-rabbit blend, or rabbit, so that's the 'good new/bad news'. Your options are wide open, but now you have every choice under the rainbow to have to choose from.

If longevity is key, beaver, then beaver-rabbit blend, THEN rabbit.

Being able to rotate hats, it's nice to have a rabbit AND a beaver for weather and wear....but believe me, if you're going to go with a single 'go-to' fedora, go with beaver, regardless of whom you chose to make the hat. You will NOT regret it, as beaver can last a lifetime and be rebuilt over and over again if made by one of our craftsmen like Steve, John, or Marc.

That said, you should also take a look at what Peters Brothers offers, as they, too, make custom Indy fedoras for us (as a matter of fact, they were making them even before the 'big 3' here

) and are in the same price range. They, too, use the same fur felt supplier as Steve and John (Penman), so it's the same material.

Decisions decisions. Choose.....wisely.

Glad to hear there's another one of 'us' in close proximity.

Regards! Michaelson

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:12 am

Next time you pass the Elizabethtown exit, honk your horn for an Indy fan

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:26 am

ark lover wrote:I'm waiting on your photos Dave..gonna put some extra stress on you! LOL Can't wait till your new addition is added on here.

Which photos?

Dave

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:09 am

ark lover wrote:Next time you pass the Elizabethtown exit, honk your horn for an Indy fan

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:30 am

DR Ulloa wrote:Penman does not offer a rabbit/beaver blend felt. John does sell the Henry here in thes states though. If you want a Penman, then it will have to be either pure rabbit or pure beaver. I'd say go with beaver. I'll be posting new pics of my SoC AB in a few so maybe you'd want to check those out. The AB beaver and Penman beaver is the same. This will give you an idea of how well the beaver can look like the SoC hat. Also, if you go to the Penman Hat Co.'s facebook, there are plenty of pics of John's own hat which looks terrific. You can check out my beaver Raiders Penman as well as a bunch of other in the Penman Post 'em Up thread.

Dave

Should have clarified that in my statement...Got a little hat crazy

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:43 am

I should have clarified. Those pics were posted in the SoC display thread. You can see them on the second and third page here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=42072 .

Dave

ark lover · Post by **ark lover** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:16 pm

Great looking hat Dave

What's the turn around/wait time on say a 100% beaver Penman vs a Henry from Penman? I assume the Henry would be the faster filled of the two.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:41 pm

If I have your size in stock of the henry. I can have it to you in 2-3 days after receiving payment. If not around a months or so. As for my turn around time is 4-5 months. This is an estimate. things tend to change.