what's wrong with the Expedition?

[that_dog]

Probably just the odd Wested (and likely for the simple reason that the majority of Indy jackets here are Westeds); maybe a US Wings. It doesn't happen very often with other makers, and I only started keeping track of the sleeve problem once I figured out it was an issue with my G&B, and then only as to other G&Bs. I can't recall seeing a Todds or TN with this problem, and I haven't seen enough of the rarer makers (Magnoli, Belstaff, etc.) to know if it crops up for them. It only seems endemic to the G&B, which is one reason I think it must be the way they build their jackets....

[JC1972]

As I noted, I have seen this in other makers from time to time. But why does it happen so often with G&B? If we consistently see that the "shoulder are to wide, armholes might be a bit big, the upper sleeves has to much room" on G&Bs, isn't that a design flaw?

And do Expedition owners really consider it "no biggie"? Cuz I didn't.

I did, which is why I sold it when I got my Wested. You just can't beat a custom made jacket.

[CM]

I've just looked at 6 of my non-Indy jackets and 4 of them do this strange sleeve creasing also - they are all cow hide of different thicknesses. I can't work out what the difference is as the sleeve leather is about the same width. It looks like it may be the product of how the sleeve is sewn into the shoulder maybe there's soem stress that get's it turning in and thus creasing lengthwise.

[Michaelson]

And do Expedition owners really consider it "no biggie"?

Nope. Personally, it makes no difference to me one way or the other.

Hey, you asked....

Ok, that 'off my chest', let me toss this out there to mull over.....

I pulled out my Expeditions and looked them over. The one thing that the 'other' jackets have in common with each other and that the Wested does not have (well, at least didn't. I think it's an option now) is the elastic cross over strap that is between the back of the jacket and the lining. This strap keeps the action pleat closed when the arms are to the side.

The anchor points of the strap are just behind the point where the sleeve attaches to the jacket body. The tension of the elastic 'in rest' is still enough to pull against the back of the sleeve, and therefore 'smoothing' the creases out that we see on a Wested jacket that HAS no elastic strap installed.

So, the elastic strap may be the 'source' of the 'problem/flaw' of the Expedition sleeve, but it's also there to solve the 'problem/flaw' of the Wested jacket's sagging action pleat, or at least those Wested jackets that do not have the elastic strap installed.

6 of one, half a dozen of the other. Either you can be unhappy with incorrectly creased upper sleeves, or blown out action pleats. 'What a world....what a world....'

So, it's not 'what is wrong', but more of 'what is different' and 'why?'

Just an observation on my part, but at least something new to ponder.

Regards! Michaelson

[Chewbacca Jones]

So, it's not 'what is wrong', but more of 'what is different' and 'why?'

Regards! Michaelson

This is my point, only I used too many words. The elastic is one of the many factors that could effect the look of the jacket.

In a follow-up to my original post, it looks like most of my jackets show a little of the so-called G&B sleeve flaw. That includes non-Indy's. I don't even have one G&B in the bunch, either!

[that_dog]

Thanks for the insight, Michaelson, that's definitely something to mull over.

As far as Expedition owners being happy with their jackets, I think that's great. I honestly did not intend to cause any dissatisfaction with the Expedition, only to discuss and explore one aspect of the jacket that I don't generally see from other makers. If you like your Expo, more power to you -- keep enjoying it. As I noted, they are well-built, high-quality jackets.

As for me, I am anxiously awaiting my Tony Nowak Raiders jacket... hopefully the itch will stay scratched with this one. (Experience shows this will probably not be the case, however.... )

[Michaelson]

I certainly hope the TN 'scratches that itch'....but if you're still breathing and a member of THIS crowd, I'm afraid you're sadly mistaken if you think the TN will be the 'be all, do all' jacket. You've been around as long as many of the rest of us, so you KNOW that's just a dream....but a fun one.

HIGH regards, old friend!

Michaelson

[binkmeisterRick]

Much more fun than those weird Michaelson dreams everyone seems to be having.

[Heyjude7]

I certainly hope the TN 'scratches that itch'....but if you're still breathing and a member of THIS crowd, I'm afraid you're sadly mistaken if you think the TN will be the 'be all, do all' jacket. You've been around as long as many of the rest of us, so you KNOW that's just a dream....but a fun one.

HIGH regards, old friend!

Michaelson

I gotta say, after i got my TN Raiders..im hardly on the site in the jacket section... Im pretty satisfied with the jacket and i think this is it for me for my quest for the "Perfect" jacket!
It is my "be all and do all" ...( i like that Michaelson)
I went through many many jackets and now im satisfied....itch scratched!

[Michaelson]

You're one of the rare lucky few, friend Jude!

Regards! Michaelson

[Heyjude7]

I must admit though, Ol' Friend, that was like crazy to get off the SA kick and perfect fit..i was really addicted to CoW! my wife made fun of me everyday i went on to see if anyone wrote on the jacket section!

[that_dog]

I certainly hope the TN 'scratches that itch'....but if you're still breathing and a member of THIS crowd, I'm afraid you're sadly mistaken if you think the TN will be the 'be all, do all' jacket. You've been around as long as many of the rest of us, so you KNOW that's just a dream....but a fun one.

HIGH regards, old friend!

Michaelson

Quoted for truth. Hey, the thrill is in the chase, right?

Cheers as always, Michaelson.

[Michaelson]

Amen, Brother!!

Regards! Michaelson

[CM]

So, it's not 'what is wrong', but more of 'what is different' and 'why?'

Regards! Michaelson

This is my point, only I used too many words. The elastic is one of the many factors that could effect the look of the jacket.

In a follow-up to my original post, it looks like most of my jackets show a little of the so-called G&B sleeve flaw. That includes non-Indy's. I don't even have one G&B in the bunch, either!

Yep, as I worte earlier, lost of jackets do this in the sleeve - even a look at other jackets on the net will show more of the same. It's nothign to do with the back elastic strap...

[Michaelson]

Like I said, it was just something to mull over.

Every 'off' jacket I own with a strap installed does this. Those that do not have the strap have the creases, so it's still a viable theory based on personal observations from my own collection, and only offered as fodder for the thread.

Like I said, it makes no difference to me one way or the other.

Regards! Michaelson

[RCSignals]

I must admit though, Ol' Friend, that was like crazy to get off the SA kick and perfect fit..i was really addicted to CoW! my wife made fun of me everyday i went on to see if anyone wrote on the jacket section!

Welcome back to the jacket section

[RCSignals]

I've just looked at 6 of my non-Indy jackets and 4 of them do this strange sleeve creasing also - they are all cow hide of different thicknesses. I can't work out what the difference is as the sleeve leather is about the same width. It looks like it may be the product of how the sleeve is sewn into the shoulder maybe there's soem stress that get's it turning in and thus creasing lengthwise.

Yes. I suggested it before, and still think it's possibly contributing to the effect.

A tailor once told me that many off the rack suit jackets have the sleeves attached wrong at the am hole. He said they often need to be rotated back, or forward. Maybe that's what is going on with some of these jackets? The sleeve needs to be rotated to the back slightly to remove the crease?

[CM]

I know RC I was quoting you but forgot to credit you...

I just had a look at some Langlitz jackets on line (one of the world's best jacket makers and they cost way over $1000) and some of these have it too. So it must be something that leather jackets tend to do in the sleeve and not a G&B issue at all.

[Nevada Jones]

The accurate cut calls for some meat on the bone. It is an athletic cut, so for some it may be the body needing attention rather than the pattern? (grin)

One of the reasons I went on my diet to lose the last 25lbs I gained. The fit of my Wested adventure pants wasn't right and I blamed the pants! Then I took a good long look at myself in my pics and decided then and there I would lose 25 more pounds and get in shape. I was all the way up to a decidedly unathletic toad-like 240. I'm currently at 214.2 My goal is a toned and athletic 200lbs.

[Hatch]

_, , did TN fit you in person ?........have you seen any of the newer leathers he's got in stock ?

[Michaelson]

Thus far, my TN CS fills the void... I do not forsee that changing, but I've acquired too many scars of various types over the years and even very recently to know "never say never"...

...

Yep, I kind of recall someone saying the same thing about their last iteration of an Expedition many years ago.

Regards! Michaelson